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Now I think about it I had to bodge something at work that involves tapping a ruined 8mm fine thread up through 9, then to 10mm because we couldn't get a drill in to open it up and it was too ruined to fix at 8. So I've used a 9mm tap then.
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Jan 21, 2015 22:20
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They're referring the the across-flats size of the head, and no, you really don't encounter 9mm unless someone is being particularly bloodyminded about things. However, a hex for a #8-32 threaded fastener is likely to be 11/32", which is very hard to tell apart from 9mm. A 7mm across flats is most likely an M4 fastener.
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Jan 21, 2015 22:34
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https://www.boltdepot.com/fastener-information/bolts/metric-bolt-head-size.aspx is relevant here. It doesn't cover reduced-head metric fasteners of the style Ford uses, though. Metric is fuckin' great poo poo eh? 5 different head sizes for one bolt shank diameter. Good thing we have standards, they're great because there are so many to choose from.
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Jan 21, 2015 22:38
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Yet another reason to curse the random metric fasteners I run into. Fuckin' metric.
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Jan 21, 2015 22:41
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I just did the rear brakes on my car. The size of the discs and pads differs if you have a panoramic roof... Yeah i get it, its a couple of kilos heavier, but seriously? Even the small brakes are over-engineered for the car. loving french bastards...
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Jan 21, 2015 22:43
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It's only fun when you're dealing with random selections of metric and imperial (of all flavours, naturally) on one vehicle. Really, if you're used to one or the other, you rapidly pick up on how to eyeball 90% of them. For me, the real entertainment is that most aero engine stuff is still imperial (generally UNF), but certain people had the wonderful idea years back that a nice, modern company should be dimensioning things in metric units. 
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Jan 21, 2015 22:48
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InitialDave posted:It's only fun when you're dealing with random selections of metric and imperial (of all flavours, naturally) on one vehicle. I still love all that imperial threadding with metric heads on Rover V8s. Brilliant idea your midland drunkards.
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Jan 21, 2015 22:52
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Raluek posted:Yet another reason to curse the random metric fasteners I run into. Fuckin' metric. gently caress your SAE. gently caress it. 
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Jan 21, 2015 22:53
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CommieGIR posted:gently caress your SAE. gently caress it. Nope. I can take apart most of my car with a 9/16" and a 1/2" wrench. Which is often the same wrench. Except when random bolts are metric, like the ones holding the radiator into the truck. For some reason. Rest of it is standard, except when it's not.
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Jan 21, 2015 22:56
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Raluek posted:Nope. I can take apart most of my car with a 9/16" and a 1/2" wrench. Which is often the same wrench. Except when random bolts are metric, like the ones holding the radiator into the truck. For some reason. Rest of it is standard, except when it's not. Join the modern world 
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Jan 21, 2015 22:58
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The only annoying thing is all my hand tools are imperial because airplanes, and all my personal vehicles are always metric.
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Jan 21, 2015 22:59
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Motronic posted:I still love all that imperial threadding with metric heads on Rover V8s. Brilliant idea your midland drunkards. It was imp/imp before bmw got involved.  GM is a nasty offender of the metric/imperial mashup too.
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Jan 21, 2015 22:59
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InitialDave posted:It's only fun when you're dealing with random selections of metric and imperial (of all flavours, naturally) on one vehicle. I have basically every fastener on the vehicles I work on memorized (by accident, it just happens) but yeah, it's a proper mindfuck. All the chassis poo poo on an XJ? Metric. Except the steering stuff, that's all SAE except a few random things. All the everything that threads into the engine? SAE, unless it bolts into a part redesigned since the metric changeover at whatever company made it. So the vacuum fittings are all NPT, but all the throttle body stuff, PS pump, alternator, fuel rail, and AC compressor are metric. Starter motor has one metric bolt and one SAE bolt. The SAE bolt faces the transmission because it's an Aisin Warner all-metric transmission (  because it's got an old SAE measurement BH pattern on it) and the metric bolt faces the starter because it's a Nippon Denso starter.The transfer case is all metric because it's a New Venture Gear unit from a time when metric was coming into usage, but the interfaces to all the yokes, the tcase to transmission studs, and all the splines are in inches because it was designed to match up with old american auto industry parts already in use, so even though the tcase and transmission are both 100% metric native, they're bolted together entirely with SAE fasteners. The brake lines are all SAE flare, except one bubble flare because Reasons. Some of the bolts are internal torx, some are external torx, some are security torx, and there are a few 12 points thrown in for good measure. I have also seen engineering marvels like Ford pinion flanges, which use M12x1.75 bolts, but on a 4.250" pitch circle with a 2.000" pilot center. Engineering: 50% metric, 50% SAE, and 50% legacy.
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Jan 21, 2015 23:03
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I'm working on a new engine that is bolting up to a legacy stand/oil pan (it's a very large engine and the oil pan supports it on the ground). The company is moving over to metric, but the oil pan is still SAE. So, there is like 50 M12 bolts and a dozen 1/2" on the cover that bolts onto the end. I hate trying to bolt on legacy equipment as it never matches the standard I am using everywhere else on the system. Worse, the guy who speced the fuel pumps called out metric fluid connections. That poo poo is almost impossible to find in the US and costs about 10x what's standard SAE parts cost. So I have like two super expensive connectors on a system that uses hundreds of NPT fittings everywhere else. When I asked him, he said, "well, NPT is hard to find in Germany." That's nice, I'll keep it in mind when I'm not working on something being built in the Midwest! (he got fired...)
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Jan 21, 2015 23:22
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There's no loving way NPT is hard to find in Germany. SKF makes a gently caress ton of NPT fittings, they gotta go somewhere in Western Europe.
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Jan 22, 2015 00:06
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Its not just the Italians doing non-standard Metric fasteners in 7mm or 9mm Hex. Shimano (bicycle parts) are at at it as well. With 9mm hexes on M6 stuff and 7mm hexes on M5's. I know its all about weight saving on their high end gear, but I feel the pain from the Ducati mechanics when dealing with this crap. So Its back to the toolbox to find that 9mm spanner that you don't have. 9 & 7mm spanners are rare in most toolkits... Also my car has a 15mm hex on the sump plug. Its not imperial either. Thread is 12mm x 1.75. 15mm spanners are also rare... Guess the car?
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Jan 22, 2015 00:25
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Maybe it was SAE straight thread. Don't remember off the top of my head. I just know that I can't find a lot of choice in metric straight thread of BSPP here in the US.
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Jan 22, 2015 00:26
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InitialDave posted:It's only fun when you're dealing with random selections of metric and imperial (of all flavours, naturally) on one vehicle. I don't know what it's like on modern Fords but I found an interesting mix on the 99 Taurus I had for a while. All the easily-accessible basic maintenance poo poo (battery cables, etc.) was SAE but for instance once you'd used an SAE wrench to disconnect the battery, the battery tray was held in with metric bolts. My theory is that Ford kept the basic poo poo SAE so dads wouldn't get upset about weird Euro crap on their ALL AMERICAN AUTOMOBILES.
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Jan 22, 2015 01:42
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Pham Nuwen posted:I don't know what it's like on modern Fords but I found an interesting mix on the 99 Taurus I had for a while. All the easily-accessible basic maintenance poo poo (battery cables, etc.) was SAE but for instance once you'd used an SAE wrench to disconnect the battery, the battery tray was held in with metric bolts. Ford, Hecho en Mexico.
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Jan 22, 2015 01:57
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Not Terrible Rant Stuff
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Jan 22, 2015 12:29
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cursedshitbox posted:GM is a nasty offender of the metric/imperial mashup too. And torx. I have a whole set of torx for a car I don't have anymore.
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Jan 22, 2015 13:04
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All the domestic OEs were awful for SAE/Metric nonsense from the late eighties till the mid-late nineties. More recently, they're almost entirely metric. Torx is bullshit, but I submit to you the only fastener that is more deserving of scorn than Torx: The Tri-Wing.  gently caress Tri-Wing.
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Jan 22, 2015 14:42
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My company dual-dimensions everything in inches and mm, it's like the worst of both worlds because almost nothing rounds exactly and every dimension takes up extra space on the drawing. The place I did my internship had a requirement to put the absolute biggest threads that would fit on some components. So there were MJ7 and MJ13 threads all over.
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Jan 22, 2015 15:06
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jammyozzy posted:My company dual-dimensions everything in inches and mm, it's like the worst of both worlds because almost nothing rounds exactly and every dimension takes up extra space on the drawing. Ugh. This is the first project I've worked on that does that consistently. Half the dimensions are standard SAE (.000, .125, .250, etc), half are whole number metric DIMs. The worst is converting an old 2D drawing into a 3D part, then making a new CAD drawing of that part. You'll get poo poo like 25.3mm/0.99in and need to figure out how to round things at the fourth decimal point to make the new drawing match the reference because gently caress you if the reference doesn't make sense, your new drawing has to match it exactly.
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Jan 22, 2015 15:16
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MrYenko posted:All the domestic OEs were awful for SAE/Metric nonsense from the late eighties till the mid-late nineties. More recently, they're almost entirely metric. Hey you're not giving external pentalobe security torxplus enough credit here. no, that doesn't actually exist. If it did I would be morally obliged to track down the inventor and perform an honor killing. This was a tossup between horrible failures and terrible car stuff.  I am fairly certain that's a Jeep TJ rear suspension, and 99% sure that's an old 4.0L head bolt being used as an LCA
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Jan 22, 2015 15:21
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I didn't know they made jeep rear ends out of 100% verdigris.
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Jan 22, 2015 15:32
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  This was a "safety car" named sir vival. get it? huh do you get it?
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Jan 22, 2015 16:12
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Gentlemen, I've come across an investment opportunity on Craigslist Today:     
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Jan 22, 2015 16:36
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I couldn't help but see it...
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Jan 22, 2015 16:45
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Ace job loving up that THREE STAGE PAINT by deforming the trunk lid when the spoiler was attached.
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Jan 22, 2015 16:47
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i imagine that is what every rocket bunny FRS with a spoiler attached to the license plate holder is going to look like in 10 years. That guy was probably king of the parking lot at the 2 fast 2 furious premier.
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Jan 22, 2015 16:59
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What is "tu-tone" and what is the third paint stage? primer?
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Jan 22, 2015 17:11
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Pham Nuwen posted:I don't know what it's like on modern Fords but I found an interesting mix on the 99 Taurus I had for a while. All the easily-accessible basic maintenance poo poo (battery cables, etc.) was SAE but for instance once you'd used an SAE wrench to disconnect the battery, the battery tray was held in with metric bolts. Wonder if it's a holdover from the 80s-90s Mazda crossover days.
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Jan 22, 2015 17:26
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88h88 posted:I couldn't help but see it... We need more vents. MORE VENTS!
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Jan 22, 2015 18:24
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MrYenko posted:All the domestic OEs were awful for SAE/Metric nonsense from the late eighties till the mid-late nineties. More recently, they're almost entirely metric.
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Jan 22, 2015 18:38
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MrYenko posted:The Tri-Wing. I have to believe those were made under the assumption that everybody would strip them and they'd make loads of money that way.
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Jan 22, 2015 19:01
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They honestly seem like one of those things designed deliberately to never be taken apart, usually used on things that even factory technicians aren't meant to gently caress with. Just like 5 pointed torx.
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Jan 22, 2015 19:07
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Slavvy posted:They honestly seem like one of those things designed deliberately to never be taken apart, usually used on things that even factory technicians aren't meant to gently caress with. Just like 5 pointed torx. The mass airflow sensor in my car was held in by 5 point security torx. tell me a mass airflow sensor is never meant to be removed or replaced. 
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Jan 22, 2015 19:10
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The Tri-Wings I pictured are titanium. They're used on DC-10s for all manner of access panels, all over the aircraft, including my favorites, the ones on the bottom of the horizontal stab that let you access the logo lights. Drilling titanium only gets better when you get to do it over your head.
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Jan 22, 2015 19:13
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I thought those were made to infuriate overly inquisitive children trying to take apart their happy meals toys. drat YOU MCDONALDS 
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Jan 22, 2015 19:26
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