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I can't remember, was it the lack of women that made MF and KSD boycott the Marvel retreat?
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Jan 21, 2015 23:52
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zoux posted:I can't remember, was it the lack of women that made MF and KSD boycott the Marvel retreat? I don't think they boycotted it, KSD was just never asked to go to the retreat.
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Jan 21, 2015 23:54
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Wasn't it her not being invited last year? Didn't that get Matt to basically quit Marvel?
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Jan 21, 2015 23:54
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What would she contribute anyway? "I think we should make the comics blander and have bad sales!"
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Jan 21, 2015 23:55
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Skwirl posted:I don't think they boycotted it, KSD was just never asked to go to the retreat. I remember they were mad about it, and it regarded the lack of diversity but I couldn't remember if it was gender or racial diversity. Anyway I see four women in that picture, I guess that's pretty good for comic book creators.
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Jan 21, 2015 23:55
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Was Fraction even invited?
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Jan 21, 2015 23:56
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Can anyone find the video where Alan Moore slams people who missed the point of Rorschach? I want to use a quote from it but I'm having trouble finding it. It's something along the lines of "But I have people come up to me saying, "I AM Rorschach! That is MY story!" And I’ll be thinking, "Yeah great. Could you just like, keep away from me, never come anywhere near me again as long as I live"
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Jan 21, 2015 23:56
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Rhyno posted:Was Fraction even invited? Probably not this year, since I don't think he's writing anything for Marvel, but he was certainly there in past years.
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Jan 22, 2015 00:02
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Senor Candle posted:Can anyone find the video where Alan Moore slams people who missed the point of Rorschach? I want to use a quote from it but I'm having trouble finding it. It's something along the lines of
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Jan 22, 2015 00:03
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Are you kidding me? He hates women and minorities and he's a right wing nutjob, as well as a violent psychopath and homeless man. That is not a role model.
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Jan 22, 2015 00:04
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Lurdiak posted:Are you kidding me? He hates women and minorities and he's a right wing nutjob, as well as a violent psychopath and homeless man. That is not a role model. That's pretty harsh on homeless people. He is a bit hosed up as I mentioned, but it's not overriding. Most good characters have flaws and failings. He's certainly misogynistic but I don't remember the minorities part, and the sexism is, at least, passive, and a result of childhood trauma. I've only watched the movie, if that helps you understand my position.
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Jan 22, 2015 00:10
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Skwirl posted:Probably not this year, since I don't think he's writing anything for Marvel, but he was certainly there in past years. I assumed the boycott was referring to this year and since Mr Fraction is not very popular at Marvel right now I wondered why he'd even be invited.
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Jan 22, 2015 00:11
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WickedHate posted:Rorschach is hindered by his lack of social skills and could use some more empathy, but otherwise he's awesome. His views of justice and morality weren't that bad, nor was his dedication to never allowing injustice. "Never compromise" isn't a bad creed to live by, for a super hero. Actually it's a terrible one. The only way you can justify that is by believing that you are 100% right about everything, or just not caring when you're wrong.
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Jan 22, 2015 00:11
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Senor Candle posted:Actually it's a terrible one. The only way you can justify that is by believing that you are 100% right about everything, or just not caring when you're wrong. In this context it's referring to stuff like "acceptable losses". It's not any different then a villian saying, "Oh Superman, I'll leave the Earth alone if you kill one random civilian" and then Superman defying the odds and defeating the bad guy without having to do that. He's not making moral compromises.
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Jan 22, 2015 00:17
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WickedHate posted:His views of justice and morality weren't that bad, nor was his dedication to never allowing injustice. "Never compromise" isn't a bad creed to live by, for a super hero. On your last point, there's a reason he has tears in his eyes as he begs Manhattan to kill him to protect the new order.
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Jan 22, 2015 00:18
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I wonder if Jeff Lemire is off camera. Is it just for exclusive people? I think Charles Soule looks like a perfectly average white man so maybe he's in there but just invisible.
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Jan 22, 2015 00:21
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Ghostlight posted:On your last point, there's a reason he has tears in his eyes as he begs Manhattan to kill him to protect the new order. I always saw that as him crying because it was inevitable and he couldn't stop them, so he was yelling at him to get it over with.
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Jan 22, 2015 00:22
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But really if anyone can find that video I would really appreciate it.
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Jan 22, 2015 00:28
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I long for the days when dark tzitzimine had the worst opinions about comics on the Internet
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Jan 22, 2015 00:44
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Infotainment! posted:I long for the days when dark tzitzimine had the worst opinions about comics on the Internet He still does, it's just that sometimes he parrots other people's good opinions.
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Jan 22, 2015 00:46
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Rhyno posted:Was Fraction even invited? Supposedly all retreats are now for "exclusive" writers only. So if they're in the picture, they're exclusive. The problem is, in years past, that wasn't the case and they never invited any of their female writers or artists to the party. This led to last year Fraction and KSD kinda going off on it considering she was at the time (and still) writing the best selling female character book AND a character that was rising in other books in the Marvel Universe as a whole. Since then, Fraction has one Marvel title and it's wrapping up (slowly but wrapping up) Also, baldo in the back left could be either Duggan or Aaron easily.
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Jan 22, 2015 00:53
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RevKrule posted:Supposedly all retreats are now for "exclusive" writers only. So if they're in the picture, they're exclusive. Hasn't Ms. Marvel blown past Captain Marvel in sales?
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Jan 22, 2015 00:57
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Rhyno posted:Hasn't Ms. Marvel blown past Captain Marvel in sales? Possibly, but at the time of the kerfuffle, the numbers were different. They keep KSD out now by saying she's not exclusive to Marvel.
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Jan 22, 2015 00:58
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RevKrule posted:Possibly, but at the time of the kerfuffle, the numbers were different. They keep KSD out now by saying she's not exclusive to Marvel. You said "at the time(and still)" which is what I was questioning.
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Jan 22, 2015 01:07
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zoux posted:Bendis posted this from the 2015 Marvel retreat: They're all trying to act natural because they know there are spy cameras hidden in that Minnie Mouse toy.
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Jan 22, 2015 01:14
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WickedHate posted:I always saw that as him crying because it was inevitable and he couldn't stop them, so he was yelling at him to get it over with. He had already mailed his journal off. Nobody else knew about that. He didn't have to make a scene and walk out - he could've just bided his time and exposed them. He knew he had to compromise, but dying to protect the secret was as far as he could get himself.
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Jan 22, 2015 01:45
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Ghostlight posted:I mean that I didn't take it just as he was crying because he had failed to save the day and was going to die, but because he knew he couldn't compromise, but also that it was necessary. They weren't tears of 'woe is me', but tears welling up from an internal struggle to reconcile his fanatic beliefs of rightness and his drive to enforce them with being convinced that Ozymandias was right in that exposing the wrong that he had done would make it even worse. He wasn't convinced at all. I can't imagine a single part of him thinking, "Welp, Adrian was right!". He couldn't let it stand and knew Manhattan would kill him for it, and Adrian would get away with his best friend as an accomplice.
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Jan 22, 2015 01:58
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Yeah, I got the impression that Rorschach knew Ozymandias couldn't plan for everything, and his plan would backfire, making things much much worse.
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Jan 22, 2015 02:08
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WickedHate posted:He wasn't convinced at all. I can't imagine a single part of him thinking, "Welp, Adrian was right!". He couldn't let it stand and knew Manhattan would kill him for it, and Adrian would get away with his best friend as an accomplice. I saw it as a callback to his elementary school history report, which Moore mocked up for #6, where young Walter Kovacs expresses his admiration for Harry Truman's decision to use the bomb in 1945, because in his mind, it was the lesser of two evils. This was a parallel situation, but when he was actually confronted face to face with the magnitude and implications of it, he couldn't follow through.
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Jan 22, 2015 02:15
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I think a lot of people mistake respecting Rorschach's dedication to his beliefs, with thinking his worldview in general is cool. I think the refusal to compromise at any cost is admirable, but he's, at best, mentally ill, and at worst, a dangerous bigot, who happens to maim and kill criminals most of the time.
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Jan 22, 2015 02:17
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Metal Loaf posted:I saw it as a callback to his elementary school history report, which Moore mocked up for #6, where young Walter Kovacs expresses his admiration for Harry Truman's decision to use the bomb in 1945, because in his mind, it was the lesser of two evils. This was a parallel situation, but when he was actually confronted face to face with the magnitude and implications of it, he couldn't follow through. He wasn't really trying with that report, and he hadn't developed all his views at the time when he wrote it. I figured it was just meant to be darkly ironic. He probably wouldn't have approved of the bombings as an adult.
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Jan 22, 2015 02:20
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WickedHate posted:He wasn't convinced at all. I can't imagine a single part of him thinking, "Welp, Adrian was right!". He couldn't let it stand and knew Manhattan would kill him for it, and Adrian would get away with his best friend as an accomplice.
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Jan 22, 2015 02:22
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WickedHate posted:He wasn't really trying with that report, and he hadn't developed all his views at the time when he wrote it. I figured it was just meant to be darkly ironic. He probably wouldn't have approved of the bombings as an adult. The next line after the famous "and I'll look down and whisper 'no'" talks about how Truman was a good man worthy of respect and emulation.
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Jan 22, 2015 02:26
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Gaz-L posted:I think a lot of people mistake respecting Rorschach's dedication to his beliefs, with thinking his worldview in general is cool. I think the refusal to compromise at any cost is admirable, but he's, at best, mentally ill, and at worst, a dangerous bigot, who happens to maim and kill criminals most of the time. Seriously the whole Nietzsche chapter is all about how much of an unrepentant, emotionless psycho he's become. The movie gives him more of an "fed up with the world" vibe than the comic, which is just pure nihilism. I think Rorschach is a great character, but there's basically nothing about him that is admirable.
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Jan 22, 2015 02:32
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Ghostlight posted:If he wasn't convinced then why did he make a scene and storm out. All he had to do was lie to them, take the information he learned back to New York, collaborate it with his journal that he had already dead-dropped, and the whole thing would have collapsed because it was contingent on everyone there keeping quiet. Because he was pissed the others were going to keep quiet. He's very black and white; everyone else going along with is a betrayal of him and what he stands for. And without him dead, his word means very little. The only reason his journal has a chance of making a difference is because he 'went missing". Alive, he's just going to be perceived as a paranoid conspiracy theorist. Doctor Spaceman posted:The next line after the famous "and I'll look down and whisper 'no'" talks about how Truman was a good man worthy of respect and emulation. Fair enough. Like I said, I've only seen the movie and bits of the comic.
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Jan 22, 2015 02:33
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It's been a while since I saw the movie, so I forget how much of the Nietzsche chapter is in there, but if you haven't read the comic that part especially illustrates how vastly different in tone and feel the two works are. Since I can't link to the comic, consider watching the narrated version. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fhb-51cw6rc
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Jan 22, 2015 02:38
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I remember realizing very quickly that the movie was brushing aside everything ugly and repugnant about Rorschach and focusing on making him more of a one-dimensional "badass" character. It's especially bad in the scenes where he interacts with the prison psychiatrist. That movie sucks.
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Jan 22, 2015 02:40
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Hakkesshu posted:It's been a while since I saw the movie, so I forget how much of the Nietzsche chapter is in there, but if you haven't read the comic that part especially illustrates how vastly different in tone and feel the two works are. Since I can't link to the comic, consider watching the narrated version. The motion comic has a few issues (especially the "female" voices) but I really like how it handled some bits, especially the Watchmaker chapter.
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Jan 22, 2015 02:44
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Hakkesshu posted:It's been a while since I saw the movie, so I forget how much of the Nietzsche chapter is in there, but if you haven't read the comic that part especially illustrates how vastly different in tone and feel the two works are. Since I can't link to the comic, consider watching the narrated version. I don't know, this quote is still pretty heroic: quote:"Understood man's capacity for horrors, and never quit. Saw the world's black underbelly, and never surrendered. Once a man has seen, he can never turn his back on it, Never pretend it doesn't exist. No matter who orders him to look the other way. We do not do this thing because it is permitted. We do it because we have to. We do it because we are compelled." I don't really see the problem. He's just got a lot of issues from what he went through as a kid. He's still a hero who does the right thing, even if his outlook is gloomy. Doctor Spaceman posted:The motion comic has a few issues (especially the "female" voices) but I really like how it handled some bits, especially the Watchmaker chapter. I agree, that and the last chapter are what I've seen of the comic. It's amazing. WickedHate fucked around with this message at 02:55 on Jan 22, 2015 |
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Jan 22, 2015 02:53
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Doctor Spaceman posted:The motion comic has a few issues (especially the "female" voices) but I really like how it handled some bits, especially the Watchmaker chapter. Yeah, the Watchmaker chapter is really well-done. The animation can be awkward a lot of the time, but the narration (once you get used to the female voices) and music gives it a great atmosphere, I think. Either way, I don't entirely hate the movie. It's probably as good of an adaptation as you can put to film, and it looks incredible, but gently caress is it also a master class in missing the point.
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Jan 22, 2015 02:55
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