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Horus Heresy Ultramarines may bleed me dry. Looking around, I found that Secret Weapon makes a flight stand widget: http://www.secretweaponminiatures.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=250 It looks reasonably neat, I'd just need to drill out an equivalent sized hole in the plastic base as well, since I don't trust that to stand up on its own and actually glue to it.
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Jan 22, 2015 01:24
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AbusePuppy posted:Sounds like you were doing it pretty much exactly right. Centurions hit really hard, but sinking 800+pts into a single unit leaves you with very little else in the army for the most part, and the deathstar can only affect a limited number of targets per turn. Outmaneuver it, hit the support elements, and play to the mission and you'll win just about every time. It was actually one of the funner games that I have played tbh, my oppanant was good and I he had a strong list. Mostly was really stoked that the DE codex turned out to be half decent and I put a good fight in, rather than the poo poo storm everyone moaned it to be on release. Sure its not the top dog, but there is a lot of meat in it, more so than I thought there was going to be.
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Jan 22, 2015 01:31
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SRM posted:Horus Heresy Ultramarines may bleed me dry. You underestimate the power of Araldite
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Jan 22, 2015 01:35
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Ghost Hand posted:Will probably cost about the same as HH:IV special edition (they are all in the same price range). And the limited edition IV was about 90 GBP, like renowned forums poster and all-around cool guy Safety Factor[!] said earlier? Guess I'll start saving my pennies! It'd be cool if the book and some models released before Gencon so I could pick them up in person there, although it seems like it really doesn't take that much to get free shipping where Horus Heresy is concerned. Sulecrist fucked around with this message at 04:43 on Jan 22, 2015 |
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Jan 22, 2015 01:48
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Leo Showers posted:e: If you do manage to find out how other people have done it, please post it. Basically my idea was a 300mm 'stick' connected to a base, which slots into a hole sunk 43mm rear of where the 'nose' connects to the lower fuselage. The slot is effectively 33mm deep, which should allow for the fighter to be stable enough on the 'stick' while looking cool (I think the flying bases are too low). I wasd planning to construct the base out of metal. My hellblades are the same way. No loving mounts anywhere. Didn't even come with a stand. I had to buy some storm talon bases and GW plastic stands. Then I used an excato blade chisel to carve a really snug X shape into the bottom of the hull so that it would mount perfect onto the stand. It took me about an hour for each hellblade. If the bottom of your fighter isn't one solid chunk of resin this will be really tough. Safety Factor posted:What could they add to Word Bearers at this point? More chaotic-looking dudes? Weaker possessed? They're pretty well represented so far with a bunch of bits and a couple of unique units. I'm sure there's plenty of room to expand them though. Ultramarines should end up with some pretty nice models if those pictures from a while back are any indication. I mean, look at this guy: That's a RAD looking Alpha Legionary
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Jan 22, 2015 01:57
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HiveCommander posted:Now compare it to the Eldar and Tau ones The Eldar and, to a lesser extent, the Tau codicies are outliers and have entries that are open to abuse.
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Jan 22, 2015 02:10
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Cataphract posted:The Eldar and, to a lesser extent, the Tau codicies are outliers and have entries that are open to abuse. This is what I don't get. Tau/Eldar are clearly lightning-in-a-bottle frontrunners and it doesn't make sense to compare modern codexes to them. I'm sure everyone will be screaming bloody murder when they're brought down to earth but the only thing GW can do is bring them in line with 7E. The 7E codexes (and 6E IG) are all pretty much in line with one another in terms of power level, but people still trot out 'well this release isn't as good as Eldar' as if that's a metric that people should loving want.
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Jan 22, 2015 02:18
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Yeah it's obvious to me that when you look at the codexes now, from here on out you also have to take into consideration the Formations, because a lot of units now are by many accounts "okay" then you look at the formations with them in it and it's like "Okay, that's actually pretty drat good". The best example of this is Tyranids, Dark Eldar, and Blood Angels. They kind of whiffed it with Space Wolves and Orks, to a degree but it looks like this is going to be the way things are from here on out. Some people really loving hate Formations though but they are not going any where and it looks like this is the way they want to move forward, specifically with Web Bundles to sell more models etc.. Also, using the Campaigns to introduce new models and units.
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Jan 22, 2015 02:24
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Sulecrist posted:And the limited edition IV was about 90 GBP, like SRM[?] said earlier? Guess I'll start saving my pennies!  BULBASAUR posted:My hellblades are the same way. No loving mounts anywhere. Didn't even come with a stand. I had to buy some storm talon bases and GW plastic stands. Then I used an excato blade chisel to carve a really snug X shape into the bottom of the hull so that it would mount perfect onto the stand. It took me about an hour for each hellblade. If the bottom of your fighter isn't one solid chunk of resin this will be really tough.
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Jan 22, 2015 02:24
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REAL MUSCLE MILK posted:This is what I don't get. Tau/Eldar are clearly lightning-in-a-bottle frontrunners and it doesn't make sense to compare modern codexes to them. I'm sure everyone will be screaming bloody murder when they're brought down to earth but the only thing GW can do is bring them in line with 7E. The 7E codexes (and 6E IG) are all pretty much in line with one another in terms of power level, but people still trot out 'well this release isn't as good as Eldar' as if that's a metric that people should loving want. You're right, people shouldn't want a good Codex for their army because wait what
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Jan 22, 2015 02:43
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Hollismason posted:Yeah it's obvious to me that when you look at the codexes now, from here on out you also have to take into consideration the Formations, because a lot of units now are by many accounts "okay" then you look at the formations with them in it and it's like "Okay, that's actually pretty drat good". I just wish they'd stop with the formations that are just "here's a reward for taking these already good units you were probably going to take anyway" like Adamantium Lance or Firebase Support Cadre.
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Jan 22, 2015 02:43
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Ugly John posted:You're right, people shouldn't want a good Codex for their army because wait what Just because you can win with it doesn't mean that it is balanced internally and externally. Balance = good, and as mentioned Eldar and Tau could use some reining in.
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Jan 22, 2015 02:46
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Ugly John posted:You're right, people shouldn't want a good Codex for their army because wait what A 'balance' discussion for a given codex shouldn't be 'does it beat eldar? does it beat tau?'. Tau and Eldar are playing control decks in a game where everything else is running midrange combo. Blood Angels, Space Wolves, Orks, Dark Eldar, Astra Militarum; all of the new releases fare well against each other. Of course Tau and Eldar do better, because Tau and Eldar are borderline bullshit. A 50S RAYGUN fucked around with this message at 03:00 on Jan 22, 2015 |
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Jan 22, 2015 02:57
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I think the Maelstrom missions and the Psychic phase specifically have made Tau comparably more balanced. Eldar as well got a bit more balanced with the Psychic phase rules reigning in Seerstar. Do I still think some balance needs to be brought to those books, not really for the Tau at all now. A Invisible unit will run roughshod over them pretty much and Psychic Shriek really tears them a new rear end in a top hat. Plus there are now answers somewhat to the whole Wave Serpent spam and if you know how to play against it it's not that bad. Should the Wave Serpent be reigned in yes, but so should the Necron Nightscythe. Eldar Wave Seprent is bullshit the codex actually has some pretty loving terrible units. The problem is when one unit is so broken it unbalances the whole codex. It really only takes one unit being horribly unbalanced to make a army viable because people are going to spam the loving poo poo out of that. If you removed Wave Serpents or downgraded them the Eldar codex would be perfectly fine. Hollismason fucked around with this message at 03:02 on Jan 22, 2015 |
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Jan 22, 2015 02:59
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Oddly enough, you could say the same thing about flying hive tyrants and Tyranids. I don't think I could make a really competitive list without them.
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Jan 22, 2015 03:13
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Safety Factor posted:Aw man... I did both. The groove is nice and deep since the bottom of the hellblade has a perfect little spot for it. Then I drilled a magnet into it it and the GW stand. It's completely overkill to do both, but you know me, nothing in moderation.
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Jan 22, 2015 03:29
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this is loving baffling
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Jan 22, 2015 04:13
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Cataphract posted:this is loving baffling I understand it perfectly but then I love loving flow charts. It's pretty simple. Hollismason fucked around with this message at 04:18 on Jan 22, 2015 |
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Jan 22, 2015 04:16
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Cataphract posted:this is loving baffling It's not really that bad. It's a Formation of Formations. Those symbols aren't Necron specific, so expect to see similar things in the future. It is kinda strange that they debut a new organization system on the last book of the cycle, but as a Necron player it'll be nice not to wait another 4 years for warlord traits. Hollismason posted:I understand it perfectly but then I love loving flow charts. I just know that you must have some absolutely incorrect notion of what that chart says. MasterSlowPoke fucked around with this message at 04:20 on Jan 22, 2015 |
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Jan 22, 2015 04:16
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It's Army À la carteMasterSlowPoke posted:
For each Reclamation Legion , you get a optional 1 Royal Court, then you get the option to pick those formations with the option being a range of 1-10 of those formations, with a minimum of 1 formation of Reclamation and a maximum of 10 all of those formations that are auxillary. So maximum you could have 1 Reclamation Legion, 1 Auxiliary, and 9 of those Formations chosen from the list. What do you think it says? Also that chart looks weird like the Destroyer unit thing seems out of place being centered like that. I'm sure there are some more restrictions but just straight up looking at it that's what I see it as saying. Hollismason fucked around with this message at 04:48 on Jan 22, 2015 |
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Jan 22, 2015 04:20
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The chart is easy to follow, but what the gently caress kind of points values do they think people are playing at?  BULBASAUR posted:I did both. The groove is nice and deep since the bottom of the hellblade has a perfect little spot for it. Then I drilled a magnet into it it and the GW stand.
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Jan 22, 2015 04:27
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It makes it look like you can take 10 C'Tan Shards which is kind if The only required units that I can see are Overlord, 2 Unit of Warriors, 1 Unit of Immortals, 1 Unit of Tomb Blades. There may be more restrictions to it than that. Just looking at it without any other stuff associated and no other instruction that's what it looks like. Maybe you can't duplicate formations or something who knows. Hollismason fucked around with this message at 04:49 on Jan 22, 2015 |
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Jan 22, 2015 04:29
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Hollismason posted:For each Reclamation Legion , you get a optional 1 Auxilliary, then you get the option to pick those formations with the option being a range of 1-10 of those formations, with a minimum of 1 formation of Reclamation and a maximum of 10 all of those formations. For each reclamation legion you must take 1 auxiliary choice (with 10 choices being the max) and you can take an optional Royal Court. Obviously it's not that simple, but we are witnessing the Dunning–Kruger effect in play.
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Jan 22, 2015 04:43
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LordAba posted:For each reclamation legion you must take 1 auxiliary choice (with 10 choices being the max) and you can take an optional Royal Court. It's either that or the Reclamation legion counting as part of that 1-10. I've already stated what I think it is. Hollismason fucked around with this message at 04:48 on Jan 22, 2015 |
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Jan 22, 2015 04:46
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Safety Factor posted:Aw man... Fixed. 
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Jan 22, 2015 04:47
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I knew it. Why in the world do you think the Reclamation Legion is part of that ten? Why are you wigging out over 9 C'tan, you can already do that with 3 CADs and a billion points?
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Jan 22, 2015 04:50
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You must take at least one Reclamation Legion(though you may take as many as you want) and for each one you take you may take a royal court and you must take at least one of the other formations. You can take up to 10 of the other formations in any combination for every Reclamation Legion. So it's potentially infinitely large.
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Jan 22, 2015 04:50
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MasterSlowPoke posted:I knew it. Why in the world do you think the Reclamation Legion is part of that ten? Why are you wigging out over 9 C'tan, you can already do that with 3 CADs and a billion points? Who's wigging out over it? I just thought it was weird. The Formation works fine in lower point games.
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Jan 22, 2015 04:52
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Hollismason posted:I think the Maelstrom missions and the Psychic phase specifically have made Tau comparably more balanced. Eldar as well got a bit more balanced with the Psychic phase rules reigning in Seerstar. Do I still think some balance needs to be brought to those books, not really for the Tau at all now. A Invisible unit will run roughshod over them pretty much and Psychic Shriek really tears them a new rear end in a top hat. What is this super-move the Tau apparently have. Is it spamming Riptides?
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Jan 22, 2015 04:58
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ProfessorCurly posted:What is this super-move the Tau apparently have. Is it spamming Riptides? Quad Riptides and the Farsightbomb for a little while at least. This explains it better than I can. http://www.torrentoffire.com/2854/the-farsight-bomb-theory-and-vicious-application It kind of goes away now that Eldar and Tau are no longer battle-brothers. It's still like a good unit though. Hollismason fucked around with this message at 05:06 on Jan 22, 2015 |
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Jan 22, 2015 05:03
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LordAba posted:Just because you can win with it doesn't mean that it is balanced internally and externally. Balance = good, and as mentioned Eldar and Tau could use some reining in. The Tau codex has arguably the best internal balance of any book they've ever printed. A couple of things make it too strong in the more general sense, most notably the two easy sources of Ignores Cover (Multispectrum Sensor and Markerlights due to the change from one per reduction to two MLs to completely zero it), Missile Broadsides, and the Puretide Engram Neurochip. Most everything else in the codex is pretty much fine (yes, even Riptides- they're only really dangerous because of Markerlights and Support Commanders) and competes well against other options within the book. Vespid, Stealth Teams, the airplanes, and most of the special characters are unfortunately a bit on the weak side but aren't completely without uses. But it's more than just "new books can't measure up to Tau and Eldar." Tau, Eldar, Imperial Knights, Space Marines, Necrons (for a few more weeks, anyways), Tyranids, and Imperial Guard are all flexible and powerful armies for a variety of different reasons, and none of the 7E books come anywhere close to matching them. Just look at the tournament rankings- the 7E books barely even make a blip for the most part and until ALL of those books get revamped, they are going to continue to dominate the scene. The new books tend to have one or two gems in them, but not enough other stuff to back it up and make a functional army that can stand in the modern environment. And not because of codex creep, either- the 5E and 6E books were almost all strong in their own ways, but I don't think that the 7E ones, even with the options of formations, measure up to that. REAL MUSCLE MILK posted:A 'balance' discussion for a given codex shouldn't be 'does it beat eldar? does it beat tau?'. Tau and Eldar are playing control decks in a game where everything else is running midrange combo. Blood Angels, Space Wolves, Orks, Dark Eldar, Astra Militarum; all of the new releases fare well against each other. Of course Tau and Eldar do better, because Tau and Eldar are borderline bullshit. Imperial Guard aren't a 7E book, they're a 6E one (even if they have a few elements on 7E's design mixed in). BA, SW, Orks, and DE are all poorly-designed books because they have bad internal balance and very few special rules or abilities that make them unique, nor do they really support multiple different types of builds via different unit selection effectively. The typically have many of the problems of the 4E and 3E books- one or two overpowered units surrounded by a bunch of unusable chaff, often with most of the best choices concentrated into a single FoC slot.
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Jan 22, 2015 05:04
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Agreed with everything until you said Vespids have their uses. Otherwise yeah, now the Tau codex is balanced there was for a while a reason it was unbalanced. With 7th edition rules it's a balanced codex before it wasn't if it was we'd have seen more army types other than " Here are my 4 Riptides". Please post your super competitive Vespid army though, I've never even played against those. It's like saying " Flayed Ones are totally a viable unit". Hollismason fucked around with this message at 05:20 on Jan 22, 2015 |
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Jan 22, 2015 05:16
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Sulecrist posted:Fixed. You are forgiven. 
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Jan 22, 2015 05:18
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AbusePuppy posted:Imperial Guard aren't a 7E book, they're a 6E one (even if they have a few elements on 7E's design mixed in). BA, SW, Orks, and DE are all poorly-designed books because they have bad internal balance and very few special rules or abilities that make them unique, nor do they really support multiple different types of builds via different unit selection effectively. The typically have many of the problems of the 4E and 3E books- one or two overpowered units surrounded by a bunch of unusable chaff, often with most of the best choices concentrated into a single FoC slot. IG is clearly a book that was designed for 7E. It may have came out during 6E but it fits 7E design ethos and has rules that did not make sense until the launch of 7E. I agree that all of the current releases feel a bit monobuild and bland, but I'd rather GW establish a baseline power level and then figure out flavor and mechanics than deal with poo poo like Eldar running roughshod for a year because they can't figure out how to make eldar feel like eldar without giving them bullshit macguffin phaser shields and poo poo.
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Jan 22, 2015 05:21
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Hollismason posted:Quad Riptides and the Farsightbomb for a little while at least. Pretty much what I thought. I decided to go to a Tournament a week or so ago, had a good game against a Space Marine player (who was very sad he didn't roll some power or other which I didn't understand at the time), got eaten alive by an invisible jetbike seer council, top table was two invisible jetbike seer councils flailing angrily at one another for about three hours in the last round. I thought I had a rock-hard army but as it turns out no, I really didn't.
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Jan 22, 2015 05:22
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Safety Factor posted:This reminds me, were you able to fix all your dudes that got damaged? That poo poo was downright tragic. Thanks for asking, dude. Honestly it's been really demoralizing to my hobby. I'm hoping to get around to it soon- I just need to build up the courage and do it. Still no word from the airline either.
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Jan 22, 2015 05:34
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Your stories have made me terrified to start painting my Breacher squads.
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Jan 22, 2015 05:46
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The only time I ever flew with my army, the person who was running the x-ray machine was inexplicably a really hot girl. It was great watching her face as she scanned my army box. Boredom turns to concern which turns to confusion which turns to disdain, all in a beautiful fleeting moment. Then she looks right at me and gives me this incredible look. A complicated look, somewhere between pity and amusement. Only a couple pieces broke, though. Sorry about your warhammer adventure.
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Jan 22, 2015 06:00
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Hollismason posted:Agreed with everything until you said Vespids have their uses. Otherwise yeah, now the Tau codex is balanced there was for a while a reason it was unbalanced. With 7th edition rules it's a balanced codex before it wasn't if it was we'd have seen more army types other than " Here are my 4 Riptides". In a cityfight game Vespid are actually fairly decent- they have Move Through Cover and Stealth (Ruins), allowing them to go where a lot of units can't and shrug off more firepower than they otherwise might. They have S5 AP3 guns and are reasonably cheap. Are they good? No. But they are better than total garbage, and they're the worst unit in the codex. I dare you to say the same about, say, Wracks or any of the other trash units from 7E books. The quadruple-Riptide list was a gimmick. I wouldn't even call is unusually good- if it was still legal today, it would get its poo poo kicked in pretty hard. REAL MUSCLE MILK posted:IG is clearly a book that was designed for 7E. It may have came out during 6E but it fits 7E design ethos and has rules that did not make sense until the launch of 7E. I agree that all of the current releases feel a bit monobuild and bland, but I'd rather GW establish a baseline power level and then figure out flavor and mechanics than deal with poo poo like Eldar running roughshod for a year because they can't figure out how to make eldar feel like eldar without giving them bullshit macguffin phaser shields and poo poo. It definitely was designed with knowledge of how the 7E rules would work, but if you compare it to the actual 7E books it's drastically different in design style. 7E books are all about formations, simplifying, and turning unique rules into generic ones; the IG book doesn't have any of that present. The problem with Eldar is not that they made the army characterful or flexible or functional, it's that Phil Kelly is lovely at balancing rules. Battle Focus is a really cool and interesting special rule that makes Eldar actually feel fast and sneaky on the tabletop. Battle Focus is good game design. The Serpent Shield is Phil Kelly not having any loving clue how good ten twin-linked high-strength shots off of a comparatively-cheap transport would be, which is awful because every competitive player who so much as glanced at the Wave Serpent instantly realized that it was broken as poo poo. The solution to bad game design should not be "remove all of the complicated rules," because not only does that not solve the problem (you can have something that is both simple and overpowered), it makes the game less fun. The solution is to hire competent game designers and playtest your game to look for problems.
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Jan 22, 2015 06:35
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AbusePuppy posted:In a cityfight game Vespid are actually fairly decent- they have Move Through Cover and Stealth (Ruins), allowing them to go where a lot of units can't and shrug off more firepower than they otherwise might. They have S5 AP3 guns and are reasonably cheap. Are they good? No. But they are better than total garbage, and they're the worst unit in the codex. I dare you to say the same about, say, Wracks or any of the other trash units from 7E books. Eh, Wracks are pretty good with the Dark Eldar Coven Codex and it's Formations which is what really you should be using them with. My problem is you can't say the same for the Ork army, you can say that now with the Tyranids, getting Skyblight, the new models, new formations etc.. The only army I feel really get's shitted on is the Ork army at this point. Seriously they're so loving abused.
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Jan 22, 2015 07:00
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