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ALL-PRO SEXMAN posted:Wait, Jesus didn't believe that he himself existed? atheist was a bit strong maybe. he was 'spiritual but not religious'.
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# ? Jan 22, 2015 09:36 |
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# ? May 23, 2024 15:22 |
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Jesus was an imaginary solopsist. No but Tacitus and Josephus both mention Jesus before it was cool.
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# ? Jan 22, 2015 10:43 |
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Patter Song posted:Eh, that wouldn't be the worst thing. Lucretius was pretty great, a whole bookshelf of unknown Epicureans would be a fine addition. A couple more of Epicurus' actual works would be fantastic. It'd be neat, but they'll never fill the void created by the loss of Lives of Famous Whores
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# ? Jan 22, 2015 11:29 |
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Looks like they're also pulling texts out of papyrus mummy masks
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# ? Jan 22, 2015 13:26 |
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ALL-PRO SEXMAN posted:I'd be happy even if they were things like Caesar's laundry list or "Nero's Great Big List of People Who Smell Worse Than Me". I'm hoping for some things like Polybios' lost works. I'm waiting for this since I read a translated collection of his works back in school. An astonishing amount of chapters came with the warning "only fragments of this book are known", some books were even missing completely due to being lost in time. I finally want to read more of his texts, he is one of the few ancient historians I actually enjoyed reading.
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# ? Jan 22, 2015 15:23 |
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pugnax posted:Did you see Ironclad? I thought that was some really well done combat.
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# ? Jan 22, 2015 16:46 |
My university actually started teaching 'The Middle Ages on Film: medieval violence and modern identities' after I left. Lame.
Disinterested fucked around with this message at 20:12 on Jan 22, 2015 |
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# ? Jan 22, 2015 16:51 |
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ALL-PRO SEXMAN posted:I'd be happy even if they were things like Caesar's laundry list or "Nero's Great Big List of People Who Smell Worse Than Me". 1) ALL THE SENATORS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1111
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# ? Jan 22, 2015 17:21 |
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ColtMcAsskick posted:I hope you guys like epicurean philosophy because that is all those scrolls will end up being Still better than loving Stoicism. Seneca
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# ? Jan 22, 2015 17:25 |
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Zopotantor posted:Still better than loving Stoicism. Seneca actually stoicism owns and seneca was good + cool. sorry. *lives in a gold house with a dining room installed with wall and ceiling panels that are entirely swapped out between each course of every meal, to provide a unique landscape setting* *is a stoic* *extensively quotes epicurus in every single letter* communism bitch fucked around with this message at 17:34 on Jan 22, 2015 |
# ? Jan 22, 2015 17:32 |
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ALL-PRO SEXMAN posted:I'd be happy even if they were things like Caesar's laundry list or "Nero's Great Big List of People Who Smell Worse Than Me".
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# ? Jan 22, 2015 18:32 |
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Halloween Jack posted:If Elagabalus were alive today he'd just be a really annoying kid on tumblr. I can only imagine Cato's blog.
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# ? Jan 22, 2015 18:46 |
Tunicate posted:I can only imagine Cato's blog. Let's be honest here, Cato would be dalereed.
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# ? Jan 22, 2015 19:07 |
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Disinterested posted:My university actually started teaching 'The Middle Ages on Film: medieval violence and modern identities' after I left. Lame. My university taught an upper-year class like this. It was basically ripping about movies and what was wrong with them. We also had a history of wine class that was about getting drunk really.
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# ? Jan 22, 2015 19:10 |
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Sad bit of ancient history news - King Tut's burial mask has been dropped and the large ornate beard snapped off...Then has been crudely epoxied back into place and then they managed to smear some epoxy on the face as well. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-30931369
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# ? Jan 22, 2015 19:21 |
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Baconroll posted:Sad bit of ancient history news - King Tut's burial mask has been dropped and the large ornate beard snapped off...Then has been crudely epoxied back into place and then they managed to smear some epoxy on the face as well.
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# ? Jan 22, 2015 19:41 |
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Jazerus posted:Let's be honest here, Cato would be dalereed. This man knows the truth.
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# ? Jan 22, 2015 19:43 |
sbaldrick posted:My university taught an upper-year class like this. It was basically ripping about movies and what was wrong with them. I unfucked the URL, the reading list actually looks fairly serious!
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# ? Jan 22, 2015 20:13 |
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Baconroll posted:Sad bit of ancient history news - King Tut's burial mask has been dropped and the large ornate beard snapped off...Then has been crudely epoxied back into place and then they managed to smear some epoxy on the face as well. jesus loving christ
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# ? Jan 22, 2015 20:36 |
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Tunicate posted:Looks like they're also pulling texts out of papyrus mummy masks quote:We're recovering ancient documents from the first, second and third centuries. Not just Christian documents, not just biblical documents, but classical Greek texts, business papers, various mundane papers, personal letters," Evans told Live Science. The documents include philosophical texts and copies of stories by the Greek poet Homer. Holy poo poo! Baconroll posted:Sad bit of ancient history news - King Tut's burial mask has been dropped and the large ornate beard snapped off...Then has been crudely epoxied back into place and then they managed to smear some epoxy on the face as well. Holy poo poo
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# ? Jan 22, 2015 22:09 |
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Baconroll posted:Sad bit of ancient history news - King Tut's burial mask has been dropped and the large ornate beard snapped off...Then has been crudely epoxied back into place and then they managed to smear some epoxy on the face as well. Unfortunately, its not the first time things like this happen. Priceless artifacts get damaged and someone does a lovely job at fixing it. I remember an article a few years ago about statues that had been damaged and had a botched restoration job. I just spent the last 10 minutes trying to look for it with no success.. Seriously, imagine you are holding a priceless artifact that you have just broken. What do you do? On one hand, you have the fear of losing your job and god knows what charges could be brought against you. On the other hand, you have the responsability to preserve humanity's treasure. I am not so sure everyone would make the right choice. In the end, we can just hope that it is not impossible to repair. EDIT: Took a while but I found the article: https://www.theartnewspaper.com/articles/kolkata-museums-yearold-lion-sculpture-damaged-during-renovation/31565 Dalael fucked around with this message at 00:29 on Jan 24, 2015 |
# ? Jan 23, 2015 00:52 |
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Baconroll posted:Sad bit of ancient history news - King Tut's burial mask has been dropped and the large ornate beard snapped off...Then has been crudely epoxied back into place and then they managed to smear some epoxy on the face as well. Somebody on NPR was saying the visible epoxy has been there since it was excavated.
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# ? Jan 23, 2015 02:12 |
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Sometimes people don't even care about artifacts. The whole reason the Elgin Marbles were taken from Greece was that other statues had already been looted. What do people even do with things that can't be melted down and remolded?
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# ? Jan 23, 2015 02:20 |
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SlothfulCobra posted:Sometimes people don't even care about artifacts. The whole reason the Elgin Marbles were taken from Greece was that other statues had already been looted. What do people even do with things that can't be melted down and remolded? Burn it for lime. The Elgin marbles were on their way to being turned into cement. bedpan fucked around with this message at 03:19 on Jan 23, 2015 |
# ? Jan 23, 2015 03:17 |
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Curious about ancient civilizations and fitness and personal appearance. I know the Romans at least were obsessed with appearance. Wigs, plucking hairs, bath houses, etc. I know there was the olympics of course, they were competitive, etc. Aside from that and the Military did people want to be all healthy like? Aside from knowing that if you run a lot you'll be able to run more and faster did they understand all the effects on their health? Are the statues of swole as gently caress dudes exaggerated a lot? Like did the concept of gyms exist outside of Military and gladiators? Was some upper class woman going to get her daily exercises in to tone her booty? Would you see people out for their daily jog in the morning through the streets of Rome? Did the Romans revere the Greeks as athletes?
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# ? Jan 23, 2015 06:21 |
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Tunicate posted:I can only imagine Cato's blog. Blogs go against traditional values. Technology will be the death of us.
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# ? Jan 23, 2015 06:25 |
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Nostalgia4Dicks posted:Curious about ancient civilizations and fitness and personal appearance. I know the Romans at least were obsessed with appearance. Wigs, plucking hairs, bath houses, etc. I know there was the olympics of course, they were competitive, etc. Aside from that and the Military did people want to be all healthy like? Aside from knowing that if you run a lot you'll be able to run more and faster did they understand all the effects on their health? Are the statues of swole as gently caress dudes exaggerated a lot? The Greeks were crazy about fitness and exercise. It's where the word gymnasium comes from - there were sort of like mini-temples for athletes. I think pretty much any insane diet & exercise regimen we could come up with today would probably be familiar to some ancient Greek guy. In Athens it was strictly no women allowed, while in Sparta both sexes trained together. The Romans, on the other hand, certainly thought it was important to be tough. Obsession with fitness and bodybuilding, though, was seen as a vain, decadent thing and I doubt you'd see all that many people exercising just for the sake of exercising. According to Suetonius, the first Greek-style gymnasium in Rome was built by Nero, and even then most Romans were kind of like "meh, whatever" about it. e: I'd imagine people in general were healthier in ancient times just because life was harder and more physical. If you're some dude who's soldiering and farming for thirty years, or grinding a mill, or hammering iron, or something, like that you're going to be stronger than a modern guy who's a got a job that doesn't demand constant physical exertion. fantastic in plastic fucked around with this message at 06:58 on Jan 23, 2015 |
# ? Jan 23, 2015 06:55 |
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Tunicate posted:I can only imagine Cato's blog. http://www.cato.org/
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# ? Jan 23, 2015 07:13 |
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Tao Jones posted:
It's funny how people like masons are absurdly strong, but look nothing like it. If you're used to hard physical labor, you're not necessarily ripped like a bodybuilder. You may be a skinny dude that handles 50kg cement bags like it's nothing all day. The looks are diet all the way.
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# ? Jan 23, 2015 08:04 |
JaucheCharly posted:It's funny how people like masons are absurdly strong, but look nothing like it. If you're used to hard physical labor, you're not necessarily ripped like a bodybuilder. You may be a skinny dude that handles 50kg cement bags like it's nothing all day. The looks are diet all the way. You can go on youtube right now and find old Vietnamese farmer ladies in their 70's manhandling giant bags around a farm like they're nothing.
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# ? Jan 23, 2015 12:05 |
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The Romans liked to use Greek athletes during games, even though they would disapprove a Roman spending as much time exercising as the athletes did. Just like they loved gladiators but if you decided to become one yourself. What is also often seen in Roman literature is that training the body was a distraction from training the mind. For example, both Cicero and Tacitus talk about this. However, this idea is also seen in Greek literature, and Romans loved copying Greek literature. Its not really clear whether its just a way of showing that you know your Greek poo poo and are thus part of the elite, or that Romans really considered physical training bad for the mind. Considering how training for war was Good and Roman i guess it was only bad if you trained to be a fit handsome dude, and not if you trained to be a fit handsome dude who was good at stabbing people. Another thing is that the Romans linked physical appearance and posture to character. So on the one hand a fit and muscular body could be seen as someone who had neglected the mind, but also as someone who embodied Good Roman VIrtues like determination and manliness. It can be seen in statues like the ones from Polykleitos which were often copied by the Romans, which embodied the masculine ideal that should be copied, but also a statue like the boxer of Quirinal, which embodied the toll and beatings a boxer takes, which could deform a man. But of course such statues could also be seen as presenting a virtue, because persevering through pain and suffering is also a good thing. Basically, Roman attitudes towards athletes were contradictory and varied and are another reason why Roman history owns. Also, two good books about athletics in the Roman world are Newby, Greek Athletics in the Roman World (Oxford 2005) and König, Athletics and Literature in the Roman Empire (Cambridge 2005).
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# ? Jan 23, 2015 14:05 |
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Buncha here but might help as an illustrative example of the attitude of some Romans to exercise:quote:The old Romans had a custom which survived even into my lifetime. They would add to the opening words of a letter: "If you are well, it is well; I also am well." Persons like ourselves would do well to say. "If you are studying philosophy, it is well." For this is just what "being well" means. Without philosophy the mind is sickly, and the body, too, though it may be very powerful, is strong only as that of a madman or a lunatic is strong. 2. This, then, is the sort of health you should primarily cultivate; the other kind of health comes second, and will involve little effort, if you wish to be well physically. It is indeed foolish, my dear Lucilius, and very unsuitable for a cultivated man, to work hard over developing the muscles and broadening the shoulders and strengthening the lungs. For although your heavy feeding produce good results and your sinews grow solid, you can never be a match, either in strength or in weight, for a first-class bull. Besides, by overloading the body with food you strangle the soul and render it less active. Accordingly, limit the flesh as much as possible, and allow free play to the spirit. 3. Many inconveniences beset those who devote themselves to such pursuits. In the first place, they have their exercises, at which they must work and waste their life-force and render it less fit to bear a strain or the severer studies. Second, their keen edge is dulled by heavy eating. Besides, they must take orders from slaves of the vilest stamp, men who alternate between the oil-flask[1] and the flagon, whose day passes satisfactorily if they have got up a good perspiration and quaffed, to make good what they have lost in sweat, huge draughts of liquor which will sink deeper because of their fasting. Drinking and sweating, it's the life of a dyspeptic![2]
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# ? Jan 23, 2015 14:15 |
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Charlie Mopps posted:The Romans liked to use Greek athletes during games, even though they would disapprove a Roman spending as much time exercising as the athletes did. Just like they loved gladiators but if you decided to become one yourself. I don't think there's a contradiction here. There's a big difference between 'soldier fit' and 'bodybuilder fit' - the Romans expected you to be lean and physically fit, but thought that spending 12 hours a day in the gym and packing bulging muscle all over was excessive and indicative of someone lacking in the brains department. Not only is there no contradiction there, it's basically identical to modern attitudes towards fitness. Bodybuilders are not stereotypically know for being master chess players.
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# ? Jan 23, 2015 14:26 |
Alchenar posted:I don't think there's a contradiction here. There's a big difference between 'soldier fit' and 'bodybuilder fit' - the Romans expected you to be lean and physically fit, but thought that spending 12 hours a day in the gym and packing bulging muscle all over was excessive and indicative of someone lacking in the brains department. It's not just a matter of not overindulging in physical exercise and that being perceived as muscle-headed or a vain pre-occupation; there's a positive expectation that you spend a balanced amount of time applying a similar positive discipline to the mind by way of the study of philosophy. It's a more complicated idea than the modern version: 'meatheads tend to be dumb'. It's also different again from the implication that it might be the overtraining itself that causes diminishment of mind (e.g. not indicative but causative). Having said that, Latin, has a word for man as apart from woman or human as alluded to above - vir, as opposed to homo, from which we get both virtue and virile (as did they). Disinterested fucked around with this message at 14:49 on Jan 23, 2015 |
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# ? Jan 23, 2015 14:42 |
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I cannot find the source texts now, but I recall reading that even in ancient Greece sport was controversial. In an age where warfare and food insecurity were salient problems, eating a protein-heavy diet so that you could build muscles to be used in a sporting competition was seen for what it was: a luxury. Pankration in particular wasn't well-regarded, despite its appearance on "educational" TV shows with titles like Most Deadliest Historicalest Warrior.
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# ? Jan 23, 2015 15:15 |
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Charlie Mopps posted:The Romans liked to use Greek athletes during games, even though they would disapprove a Roman spending as much time exercising as the athletes did. Just like they loved gladiators but if you decided to become one yourself. How would a roman upperclass man train the mind? Debate? Trigonometry?
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# ? Jan 23, 2015 17:08 |
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Baconroll posted:Sad bit of ancient history news - King Tut's burial mask has been dropped and the large ornate beard snapped off...Then has been crudely epoxied back into place and then they managed to smear some epoxy on the face as well. It's so badly done that it makes it almost hilarious. PittTheElder posted:(save the lack of helmets, done for obvious TV reasons, and it apparently makes GRRM furious) When I started reading the books it was very amusing to me how everyone and their dog seems to be wearing some sort of elaborate decorated helmet. The decoration usually taking some elements from their coat of arms. It's not really practical to have really big antlers on your helmet that your opponent could use to drag you down and murder you but it isn't much of an exaggeration on the sort of fancy helmets nobles had made in the late-medieval to early-modern era. I understand why they toned that down for the TV show though.
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# ? Jan 23, 2015 17:12 |
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More details about the Herculaneum scrolls (warning: good news/bad news): http://www.economist.com/news/science-and-technology/21640308-novel-technique-can-read-classical-texts-once-thought-too-delicate
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# ? Jan 23, 2015 17:19 |
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Oberleutnant posted:Buncha here but might help as an illustrative example of the attitude of some Romans to exercise: That's exactly the stuff I was ranting about. I missed out on Ovid (or possibly Horace), which they read in a parallel class, for this.
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# ? Jan 23, 2015 17:28 |
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# ? May 23, 2024 15:22 |
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JaucheCharly posted:How would a roman upperclass man train the mind? Debate? Trigonometry? Philosophy and theology, both of which likely meant broader subjects than those words mean today, were the master arts. The best kinds of minds were the ones that concerned themselves with studying the highest things, the ways of heaven - what the Greeks called "the beautiful and the good". Of course, then as now, plenty of successful people didn't care about this kind of stuff and instead studied how to make money or get ahead in politics, but this was the ideal. In order to do those things you needed to first study other disciplines: arithmetic, geometry, astronomy, and music. Before you got to those, you needed grammar, rhetoric, and logic. This schema comes from Boethius (6th century), but it's first described in Plato's Republic, so I think the notion of this being the pattern of education for aristocrats was pretty common throughout the Roman world. All of the disciplines are kind of -- well, I wouldn't say useless, since rhetoric was an important skill, mathematics was important. But I imagine the "rhetoric" part of it was more "learning how to speak in the tones and style and accent of an aristocrat" as much as it was learning what makes an argument persuasive.
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# ? Jan 23, 2015 17:45 |