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Is there a reason why Dwalin's beard in The Hobbit is blue?
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Jan 22, 2015 02:54
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mornhaven posted:Is there a reason why Dwalin's beard in The Hobbit is blue? Young dwarves are punks. An unsavory lot, I tell you.
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Jan 22, 2015 03:34
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People used to call things "blue" when it's like dude that's not blue that's really dark grey or something.
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Jan 22, 2015 04:21
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:This seemed like an interesting question but one that's solvable from the military statistics we see in the book, and so I did a quick google and found this interesting blog post where someone had done the work for me: This is awesome! I was looking for something like this.
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Jan 22, 2015 06:07
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SHISHKABOB posted:People used to call things "blue" when it's like dude that's not blue that's really dark grey or something. "Blue" hair 
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Jan 22, 2015 08:25
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I reached the chapter with Tom Bombadil in my re-read and I had totally forgoten about Goldberry. I know that Tom has a  status in the lore, but what about Goldberry? Is her background ever illuminated?
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Jan 22, 2015 16:13
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Octy posted:Yeah, certainly in its heyday Gondor could have fielded huge armies, as they did in the War of the Last Alliance. I see Gondor in the late Third Age as being more like a very early feudal army. You're not going to get anything much bigger than 50 000 total and in all likelihood they're not going to have received the same kind of professional training as their predecessors. Nah, my first point was that with what the kingdom of Gondor looks like on a map (multiple large river valleys, mild climate, safe interior, strong natural barriers, land mass larger than modern France and etc...) their really is no reason for them to be quite so population sparse. Even the optimistic prediction from those links puts the density at or below modern Mongolia, a much harsher and more desolate land by far. Ancient Rome in comparison had a population density at 25 BC that was 12 times higher and included a lot of land that was not nearly as nice for civilization as Gondor appears to be or was never inhabited by anything more than disparate wandering tribes. France in the 14th century had a population of 17 million and even France doesn't look like it has the things going for it that Gondor does. Gondor (and Rohan as well) at the time of the LoTR should have had a population MUCH larger than JRRT provides for considering how long those areas had been inhabited, how much infrastructure should have been available from its previous empire and how beneficial to economic prosperity the area should be without providing any real reason for their diminution. My other point was not to worry about it because, hey it's a work of fiction and they guy didn't care about economics and population theory.
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Jan 22, 2015 16:32
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It's still interesting to try to come up with in-narrative explanations though. If nothing else, constant war and Sauron's maleficent influence could have played a part. Maybe the Dark Lord was magically spreading disease and supressing birth rates.
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Jan 22, 2015 16:35
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:It's still interesting to try to come up with in-narrative explanations though. If nothing else, constant war and Sauron's maleficent influence could have played a part. Maybe the Dark Lord was magically spreading disease and supressing birth rates. http://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Great_Plague
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Jan 22, 2015 16:46
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SHISHKABOB posted:People used to call things "blue" when it's like dude that's not blue that's really dark grey or something. Cool. That makes a lot more sense than Dwalin actually having a blue beard.
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Jan 22, 2015 17:05
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SirPhoebos posted:I reached the chapter with Tom Bombadil in my re-read and I had totally forgoten about Goldberry. I know that Tom has a We are told that spirits (minor Maia) went into the earth and the rivers and the trees and the eagles. Goldberry is called the river's daughter. So she's either a maiar spirit or at least half. Like tom, she's taken from an external source where her presentation is very luthien-like.
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Jan 22, 2015 18:14
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As a related question, how did Dwarves get their food? I can't see any of the bigger dwarf settlements like Moria or Nogrod getting everything from trade, because they'd all die out if human farms didn't have a huge surplus/got killed by Orcs. And did they actually cut down many forests? I remember that Ents were made because the Dwarves would be hungry for timber, but it doesn't look like they need very much wood and the deforestation is mostly attributed to humans or the Dark Lords.
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Jan 22, 2015 19:27
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:It's still interesting to try to come up with in-narrative explanations though. If nothing else, constant war and Sauron's maleficent influence could have played a part. Maybe the Dark Lord was magically spreading disease and supressing birth rates.
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Jan 22, 2015 19:30
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Bendigeidfran posted:As a related question, how did Dwarves get their food? I can't see any of the bigger dwarf settlements like Moria or Nogrod getting everything from trade, because they'd all die out if human farms didn't have a huge surplus/got killed by Orcs. Haven't you played Dwarf Fortress? Underground mushroom farms.
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Jan 22, 2015 19:43
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Bendigeidfran posted:As a related question, how did Dwarves get their food? I can't see any of the bigger dwarf settlements like Moria or Nogrod getting everything from trade, because they'd all die out if human farms didn't have a huge surplus/got killed by Orcs. Ha, I also spent some time thinking about the Dwarven food situation when i ran D&D campaigns. Also about the elf working class. Are there some poor elves who have for the last 5000 years just changed some elf lord's chamberpot and washed his laundry? Or do common elves take shitwork shifts?
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Jan 22, 2015 19:43
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Hogge Wild posted:Ha, I also spent some time thinking about the Dwarven food situation when i ran D&D campaigns. Also about the elf working class. Are there some poor elves who have for the last 5000 years just changed some elf lord's chamberpot and washed his laundry? Or do common elves take shitwork shifts? As "unfallen' and without sin, Elves don't poop.Like Kim Jong Il, they just have a smooth little nodule where the rectum would be. Sometimes it emits a thin paste that can be pressed down into lembas.
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Jan 22, 2015 19:45
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Bendigeidfran posted:As a related question, how did Dwarves get their food? I can't see any of the bigger dwarf settlements like Moria or Nogrod getting everything from trade, because they'd all die out if human farms didn't have a huge surplus/got killed by Orcs. Pretty sure dwarf forges had to burn A LOT of wood to get going.
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Jan 22, 2015 19:49
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:As "unfallen' and without sin, Elves don't poop.Like Kim Jong Il, they just have a smooth little nodule where the rectum would be. Sometimes it emits a thin paste that can be pressed down into lembas. Have you updated http://lotr.wikia.com/ yet? drat the url tags are automatic now! Hogge Wild fucked around with this message at 19:52 on Jan 22, 2015 |
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Jan 22, 2015 19:49
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100YrsofAttitude posted:Pretty sure dwarf forges had to burn A LOT of wood to get going. They would have access to coal. Or would they? Are there large concentrations of fossil fuels in ME like there are on Earth?
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Jan 22, 2015 19:51
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Baloogan posted:They would have access to coal. Or would they? Are there large concentrations of fossil fuels in ME like there are on Earth? Strikes me that ME isn't remotely old enough to have formed coal deposits.
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Jan 22, 2015 19:53
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Hogge Wild posted:Have you updated http://lotr.wikia.com/ yet? pssh, anyone who's anyone uses http://www.glyphweb.com/arda/
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Jan 22, 2015 19:53
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Baloogan posted:They would have access to coal. Or would they? Are there large concentrations of fossil fuels in ME like there are on Earth? It's mentioned in The Hobbit that Thorin's krew had been reduced to mining coal at times after Smaug threw them out of Erebor.
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Jan 22, 2015 19:55
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Baloogan posted:They would have access to coal. Or would they? Are there large concentrations of fossil fuels in ME like there are on Earth? Middle Earth is Earth.
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Jan 22, 2015 19:55
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Hogge Wild posted:Ha, I also spent some time thinking about the Dwarven food situation when i ran D&D campaigns. Also about the elf working class. Are there some poor elves who have for the last 5000 years just changed some elf lord's chamberpot and washed his laundry? Or do common elves take shitwork shifts? More seriously a quick google for "tolkien elves poop" found this: http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/reference/references/pf/22_words.php quote:13) Ignorant: to be ignorant (G gwista- 11-46)
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Jan 22, 2015 20:01
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But don't mines need wood to build the supports? I know they began to carve into the live rock eventually, but you had to start somewhere. Maybe... they just ate it.
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Jan 22, 2015 20:03
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100YrsofAttitude posted:But don't mines need wood to build the supports? I know they began to carve into the live rock eventually, but you had to start somewhere. Maybe... they just ate it. Stone construction in Middle-Earth is pretty much magic. Stuff's always "hewn into living rock", or supported by rock pillars and sheer dwarven moxie. Hogge Wild posted:Ha, I also spent some time thinking about the Dwarven food situation when i ran D&D campaigns. Also about the elf working class. Are there some poor elves who have for the last 5000 years just changed some elf lord's chamberpot and washed his laundry? Or do common elves take shitwork shifts? I always thought they changed shifts between everything for the variety. So the captain of the guard part-times as a shoemaker and is also the cashier at the local lembas bakery. 10,000 years is a long time to stuff a resume.
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Jan 22, 2015 20:12
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Bendigeidfran posted:Stone construction in Middle-Earth is pretty much magic. Stuff's always "hewn into living rock", or supported by rock pillars and sheer dwarven moxie. Maybe most elves are utterly un-ambitious, like as long as they have wine and a tree they're cool. We only see two Elven societies (not counting Rivendell) and both of them seem to just like party in the trees all day long while occasionally taking pot-shots at passing orcs. Hell, it takes some of them like ten thousand years just to walk across the continent westwards. Basically what I'm saying is that Elves are mad lazy.
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Jan 22, 2015 20:22
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:More seriously a quick google for "tolkien elves poop" found this: So what you're saying is that elves had house-elves?
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Jan 22, 2015 20:28
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:Maybe most elves are utterly un-ambitious, like as long as they have wine and a tree they're cool. We only see two Elven societies (not counting Rivendell) and both of them seem to just like party in the trees all day long while occasionally taking pot-shots at passing orcs.
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Jan 22, 2015 21:19
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Oracle posted:Get that humanocentric worldview out of here. If you functionally lived forever, why would you be in a such a goddamn hurry to do anything or go anywhere? You literally have all the time in the world (barring orc ambush or earthquake or w/e). Food doesn't even spoil in Rivendell or Lothlorien, the amount of work you actually need to support the population is miniscule. Though I suspect the Noldor would've kept busy all day regardless. "DO SOMETHING" is pretty much their mantra. Whether that something is making friends with Dwarves, trying once again to beat Morgoth, or murdering lazier Elves who refused to do something depends on their mood.
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Jan 22, 2015 21:31
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Oracle posted:Get that humanocentric worldview out of here. If you functionally lived forever, why would you be in a such a goddamn hurry to do anything or go anywhere? You literally have all the time in the world (barring orc ambush or earthquake or w/e). I'm just sayin' it's that kind of attitude that built the great Elven kingdoms we see today.
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Jan 22, 2015 22:08
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Bendigeidfran posted:murdering lazier Elves who refused to do something depends on their mood.
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Jan 22, 2015 22:34
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:It's still interesting to try to come up with in-narrative explanations though. If nothing else, constant war and Sauron's maleficent influence could have played a part. Maybe the Dark Lord was magically spreading disease and supressing birth rates. Is it not written in some appendice that the year following the end of Sauron, crops in the Shire were bountiful and children were remarkably healthy? There might be something to the theory that growth was sauronically suppressed. On population: we have to remember that our heroes deliberately avoid crowded areas for secrecy and then cross war-torn borderlands. PJ then chose wonderfully beautiful but empty sweeping shots, which does not help the impression. I do remember Aragorn's ghost army crossing villages on the road to Pelargir in the book.* So yeah, Gondor is populated, but we never get to see those parts. *fakeedit:From map- Calembel and Ethring
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Jan 22, 2015 23:19
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ecureuilmatrix posted:Is it not written in some appendice that the year following the end of Sauron, crops in the Shire were bountiful and children were remarkably healthy? There might be something to the theory that growth was sauronically suppressed.
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Jan 22, 2015 23:44
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Nessus posted:Galadriel's dandruff I am a 12-year-old child (or maybe a 28-year-old hobbit) because hihihi.
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Jan 23, 2015 05:59
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Bendigeidfran posted:As a related question, how did Dwarves get their food? I can't see any of the bigger dwarf settlements like Moria or Nogrod getting everything from trade, because they'd all die out if human farms didn't have a huge surplus/got killed by Orcs. Presumably, Dwarven settlements are either dependent on nearby Men/Elves/Orcs who will trade food for manufactured goods, or Moria at its height had its own farms, somewhere around the West-gate (and so Nogrod and Belegost and the Iron Hills and so on). Dwarves don't just do things with stone and metal either. They all had musical instruments when they came to hire a burglar, and the rejuvenated Kingdom of Erebor exports things you'd need wood to make. So even though they don't seem to use many wooden supports (or the areas that needed supports collapsed after 2000 years without substantial maintenance) and could just use coal for fuel, they still need wood, though not quite at the same prodigious rate the Numenoreans did.
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Jan 23, 2015 06:10
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Rewinding the convo a little bit: there's one specific NT verse that I think has a ton of bearing on both the character of Sam and the broader theme that seeking mastery over others is an inherently evil and doomed desire.Matthew 23:11-12 posted:(11) But the greatest among you shall be your servant. (12) Whoever exalts himself shall be humbled; and whoever humbles himself shall be exalted.
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Jan 23, 2015 08:36
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Hrm. Question. Is the horn that Eowyn gives Merry one of the horns that gets blown on the Pellennor Fields?
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Jan 23, 2015 15:04
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:Hrm. Question. Is the horn that Eowyn gives Merry one of the horns that gets blown on the Pellennor Fields?
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Jan 23, 2015 15:23
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If I recall correctly the land of Hollin was denuded of trees that went into Moria.
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Jan 23, 2015 16:26
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