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double nine posted:Look, given the ending and the malkavian unique dialogue, as well as andrei's comment at the second encounter, and the file directory name for a certain someone, I choose to believe that someone of a higher generation (lower gen? whichever, someone more powerful in the bloodline) is tampering with our skillset, making us more powerful than normal. I don't care if it makes sense, from a pnp point of view. We were always a patsy in this, even our skillset was being manipulated in order to do someone's bidding. A Methuselah could probably do something like that, with the right disciplines and research.
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Jan 22, 2015 17:56
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Zeroisanumber posted:A Methuselah could probably do something like that, with the right disciplines and research. Of course they could. A handful of Malk Methuselahs managed to gently caress with one of the fundamental disciplines for their entire clan. Powering up a single neonate is probably simple by comparison.
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Jan 22, 2015 18:16
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Shugojin posted:Of course they could. A handful of Malk Methuselahs managed to gently caress with one of the fundamental disciplines for their entire clan. Powering up a single neonate is probably simple by comparison. Pretty sure that those dudes had the quiet assistance of Big-M himself to pull that off, but yeah old vamps can do all sorts of wild poo poo.
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Jan 22, 2015 18:19
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At the start of the game if you cheat your stats up a bit Jack laughs at you and you can say "Malkav made me do it"
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Jan 22, 2015 19:43
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Yeah, when it was brought up that the PC's sire had to be a pretty old vamp for the power level your character has, first thing that came to mind for me was "Wellp, end of the world's coming, may as well do the vampire equivalent of suicide-by-cop and drat someone for funsies while I'm at it."
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Jan 22, 2015 20:21
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Zephro posted:I last played Bloodlines years ago, and really liked it, so I've been reading this thread with interest. People were talking about the PC's oddly high power level, and hinting that some characters make in-game references to how quickly they're growing. I remember noticing the same thing and wondering who the PC's sire could be. The thing is, LaCroix makes it pretty clear who the sire is back in the theatre. They're a paid-up Camarilla goon. "A loyal and upstanding member of this organisation." But they're not particularly important, and therefore probably not particularly powerful , because he's willing to sacrifice them just to make a point to the Anarchs about how he can play tough, and nobody's willing to stick up for them. The only alternative interpretation is that he's being sarcastic, which certainly fits with his reading of "forgive me" - they're an Anarch and he's trying to goad the others. But given that Nines and everyone else in the theatre just lets them die without protest, then leaps up when the PC is threatened, I don't think that's likely. EDIT: But equally, since nobody mentions the sire to you ever again, perhaps we just need to accept their character motivation as 'guy that gets the plot moving.' grobbo fucked around with this message at 20:50 on Jan 22, 2015 |
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Jan 22, 2015 20:45
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out in an SA thread about pretend vampires then I don't even want to know any more.
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Aumanor posted:On this topic: what does Gehenna do to the Consensus? Depends on whether Vampire or Mage takes precedence in a given ST's campaign. The Ascension scenarios assume that Gehenna, if it happens, is mostly offscreen and low-key. VtM itself was never written with the Consensus and Mage's crazy metaphysics in mind, and just assumes mages are, well, wizards of some kind.
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Jan 22, 2015 21:10
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tlarn posted:Yeah, when it was brought up that the PC's sire had to be a pretty old vamp for the power level your character has, first thing that came to mind for me was "Wellp, end of the world's coming, may as well do the vampire equivalent of suicide-by-cop and drat someone for funsies while I'm at it." This makes a certain kind of sense, particularly if you suppose that the sire was tipped off before the game even starts that Gehenna is coming to pass really soon, or was otherwise manipulated into the suicide-by-cop fatalistic mindset somehow. Particularly if you consider a certain someone possibly being active in the area who could accomplish something like that easily
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Jan 22, 2015 21:53
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insanityv2 posted:I hate to turn this into a non-vampire related derail, but I still firmly believe that the blame for the fact that we'll likely never get another WW property videogame despite the resurgence in popularity in the subject matter to fall substantially at Dancey's feet.
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Jan 22, 2015 22:01
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Zephro posted:So wait, CCP have the license to all White Wolf's stuff? Why wouldn't they just commission some outside studio to do another Vampire game or whatever? Just because the MMO failed, that's no reason to not make any more games. Or am I missing something? Because  . They simply seem to not give a poo poo. They had the MMO idea, and that's all they wanted the IP for. It didn't work, so welp.
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Jan 22, 2015 22:04
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Zephro posted:So wait, CCP have the license to all White Wolf's stuff? Why wouldn't they just commission some outside studio to do another Vampire game or whatever? Just because the MMO failed, that's no reason to not make any more games. Or am I missing something? CCP never impressed me with their commitment to developing the WoD brand.
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Jan 22, 2015 22:05
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Zephro posted:So wait, CCP have the license to all White Wolf's stuff? Why wouldn't they just commission some outside studio to do another Vampire game or whatever? Just because the MMO failed, that's no reason to not make any more games. Or am I missing something? Anyone remember the 70$ monocle? CCP has a history of trying to profit off the stupidest things if they think they can get away with it. As long as they think they can still profit from the brand, they aren't letting anyone touch that poo poo.
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Jan 22, 2015 22:12
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Zephro posted:So wait, CCP have the license to all White Wolf's stuff? Why wouldn't they just commission some outside studio to do another Vampire game or whatever? Just because the MMO failed, that's no reason to not make any more games. Or am I missing something? They own it outright. The original creators actually license the IP they made from them to do some supplements after they reformed into Onyx Path publishing. CCP is chock full of icelandic hubris and questionable business acumen. They probably have no idea what to do with it but know it's potentially valuable, so they're taking the default tack of sitting on it and not bothering to do anything else since they have their FPS, Occulus flight sim, and MMO cash cow to deal with. Now, if a blooded studio were to work up a good proposal and could secure funding and whatnot, they'd probably be willing to license it out. Of course, good luck getting funding before you even have the license.
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Jan 22, 2015 23:31
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TheMcD posted:Because It did however make them decide to go after and shut down a (in progress) free game based on Vampire. Cuz screw you fans  And I used to think that CCP (monocle aside) was a pretty decent company 
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Jan 23, 2015 02:29
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Zephro posted:I last played Bloodlines years ago, and really liked it, so I've been reading this thread with interest. People were talking about the PC's oddly high power level, and hinting that some characters make in-game references to how quickly they're growing. I remember noticing the same thing and wondering who the PC's sire could be.
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Jan 23, 2015 04:09
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Pickled Tink posted:Or it could have been that a seventh gen had a patsy grab you and drain you to unconsciousness, then finished the job of siring you themselves before leaving the loyal/dominated/blood bound patsy to take the fall knowing that LaCroix is a moron and wouldn't investigate properly in his zeal to show he is upholding the Camarilla traditions in his new city. Hell, they may have even been the one who tipped off the Cam, just to set the events in motion. It's not like they even bothered questioning your "sire" before they dusted him. This is exactly my thought. Assuming, of course, that the super powered PC isn't just that way because its a game and its more fun that way. Though it does seem conspicuous that all their stats line up with an 8th gen.
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Jan 23, 2015 05:03
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So, been a while and I can't quite remember what half this poo poo does so: Anyone mind giving a fast rundown on the various Disciplines that you can have access to, with an example of a low end power and a high end? Just to give an idea. Anyone doing the same for mage spheres would be fantastic too.
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Jan 23, 2015 10:01
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Zephro posted:So wait, CCP have the license to all White Wolf's stuff? Why wouldn't they just commission some outside studio to do another Vampire game or whatever? Just because the MMO failed, that's no reason to not make any more games. Or am I missing something? It's a pretty common thing to do with IP rights unfortunately. There's some company whose name I forget who has managed to hold the rights to make games or movies based on the Wheel of Time series for over a decade despite never doing anything beyond the bare minimum required to make it really hard for Harriet McDougal to get them back.
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Jan 23, 2015 13:26
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It's basically Schrodinger's license: it's a license quite a few people are interested in, making it very valuable. But because they know this and want to charge (exhuberant) money for it, this scares everyone off, making the license worthless because no-one is willing to take that risk. These states are true simultaneously. I love lawyers. also I know that that's not actually what Schrodinger was talking about.
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Jan 23, 2015 13:55
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Shugojin posted:It's a pretty common thing to do with IP rights unfortunately. There's some company whose name I forget who has managed to hold the rights to make games or movies based on the Wheel of Time series for over a decade despite never doing anything beyond the bare minimum required to make it really hard for Harriet McDougal to get them back. ...and nothing of value was lost.
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Jan 23, 2015 15:00
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double nine posted:It's basically Schrodinger's license: it's a license quite a few people are interested in, making it very valuable. But because they know this and want to charge (exhuberant) money for it, this scares everyone off, making the license worthless because no-one is willing to take that risk. These states are true simultaneously. It's a license superposition. There's always an IP, a dickhead company, and a lighthouse.
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Jan 23, 2015 16:27
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Except that CCP did license the WW RPG properties out so that stuff could be made for them: that's literally the entire point of Onyx Path Publishing.
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Jan 23, 2015 16:31
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ThisIsNoZaku posted:Except that CCP did license the WW RPG properties out so that stuff could be made for them: that's literally the entire point of Onyx Path Publishing. I don't think CCP was ever interested in publishing RPG books though, so there is no conflict. A new WoD-based video game on the hand, falls under the clause of "we might want to do something with this ourselves before the heat death of the universe, so gently caress off" I hope I eat my words and Obsidian gets a crack at it like they wanted before:  
fspades fucked around with this message at 16:58 on Jan 23, 2015 |
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Jan 23, 2015 16:44
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Galick posted:So, been a while and I can't quite remember what half this poo poo does so: Sure, I can give a rundown of the spheres. Correspondence: Manipulation of space, connections, and relationships. One dot: basic scrying. Five dots: Rooms bigger/smaller on the inside than the out, stacking multiple locations on top of one another, being in multiple places at the same time, physically transferring people and things to/from the Digital Web. Entropy: Manipulation of decay, probability, and fate. One dot: little twists of good or bad luck, always knowing the odds of something. Five dots: Multi-generation curses or blessings, disintegration. Forces: Manipulation of energy of all kinds: One dot: Sensing/reading energy. Five dots: Total transmutation or creation of energy. Life: Manipulation of living/biological organisms. One dot: getting a feel for how healthy/sick something is and why, sensing living organisms. Five dots: creating new species, perfect cloning, reviving the dead (physically). Matter: Manipulation of physical, non-living matter. One dot: finding/locating specific substances, sensing what exactly something is made of. Five dots: creating entirely new elements. Mind: Manipulation of thoughts and emotions. One dot: sensing the presence of other intelligences, reading people's emotions. Five dots: creating sapient minds or snuffing them out. Prime: Manipulation of magic, avatars, and the fundamental structure of reality. One dot: sensing quantities of quintessence (mana) and resonance. Five dots: tapping reality itself for free quintessence, unmaking real things to free their quintessence, interacting with avatars. Spirit: Manipulation of spirits, souls, planes, and other dimensions. One dot: sensing spirits, peeking across the Gauntlet. Five dots: creating spirits and souls. Time: Manipulation of time and causality. One dot: knowing what time it is exactly, picking up on temporal manipulation. Five dots: perfect time travel (but not without the usual risks), freezing subjective time for oneself or another entirely. Oracles and archmages can go past five dots, and at those ratings things mount up until the mage in question can do literally anything imaginable within a given sphere. Period. Pussy Cartel fucked around with this message at 16:59 on Jan 23, 2015 |
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Jan 23, 2015 16:57
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Yeah, mage is less "this is X discrete power" and more of "I want to do X, here's how I can justify it using these spheres that I know"--with level 3 in most spheres you can do some wacked out stuff, and it just goes from there. The real limitations are a) your paradigm (literally, how you can justify the effect using your personal belief system of How Magic Works) and b) Paradox. Just because you can time travel, doesn't mean that you won't arrive at your destination and immediately explode.
OAquinas fucked around with this message at 17:30 on Jan 23, 2015 |
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Jan 23, 2015 17:22
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fspades posted:I don't think CCP was ever interested in publishing RPG books though, so there is no conflict. A new WoD-based video game on the hand, falls under the clause of "we might want to do something with this ourselves before the heat death of the universe, so gently caress off" I weep bitter tears for what could have been. I'm very excited for PoE but an obsidian WoD game would have beee amazing.
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Jan 23, 2015 17:36
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Zeroisanumber posted:...and nothing of value was lost. True, but it's a good example of somebody just sitting on some IP rights with no intent to actually use them.
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Jan 23, 2015 17:37
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Pussy Cartel posted:
Could Life + Mind + Spirit 5 equal perfect resurrection, in theory? Life to restore the body, Mind to restore the mind, Spirit to restore the soul.
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Jan 23, 2015 17:42
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Omobono posted:Could Life + Mind + Spirit 5 equal perfect resurrection, in theory? Honestly, that's something the game was never clear on. Some editions said that that effect would create a perfect resurrection, while other editions said that only spheres above 5 could manage it. There was a huge disconnect in power levels between 1st/2nd edition and the revised edition, which tried to turn the game into something low-key and street level. I'm pretty sure the upcoming 20th anniversary edition is going back towards something on par with the 2nd edition, which allowed for resurrection and poo poo like that.
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Jan 23, 2015 17:56
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UrbicaMortis posted:I weep bitter tears for what could have been. I'm very excited for PoE but an obsidian WoD game would have beee amazing. Hell, most of Troika is already there.
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Jan 23, 2015 18:50
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Pussy Cartel posted:Honestly, that's something the game was never clear on. Some editions said that that effect would create a perfect resurrection, while other editions said that only spheres above 5 could manage it. Perfect resurrection below level 6 spheres seems inconsistent with there no longer being any reliable way to achieve immortality through magic, aka the Tremere problem.
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Jan 23, 2015 20:02
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Pickled Tink posted:Or it could have been that a seventh gen had a patsy grab you and drain you to unconsciousness, then finished the job of siring you themselves before leaving the loyal/dominated/blood bound patsy to take the fall knowing that LaCroix is a moron and wouldn't investigate properly in his zeal to show he is upholding the Camarilla traditions in his new city. Hell, they may have even been the one who tipped off the Cam, just to set the events in motion. It's not like they even bothered questioning your "sire" before they dusted him. quote:It's a pretty common thing to do with IP rights unfortunately. There's some company whose name I forget who has managed to hold the rights to make games or movies based on the Wheel of Time series for over a decade despite never doing anything beyond the bare minimum required to make it really hard for Harriet McDougal to get them back. quote:I hope I eat my words and Obsidian gets a crack at it like they wanted before: edit: assuming it was oWoD, screw this nWoD stuff Zephro fucked around with this message at 21:21 on Jan 23, 2015 |
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Jan 23, 2015 21:08
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Zephro posted:Yeah, like I said in the post, the logical person to do that is Jack, given his role in the plot. Trouble is he's only 10th. In all honesty, I think obsidian can pull of building their own horror fantasy universe if they wanted to. The problem (as always) is funding. I hope that their Eternity project gets them all the moneys so they can do projects like this.
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Jan 23, 2015 21:30
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Zephro posted:No, I realise, it just never fails to amaze me that people would sit on an asset like this and let it do nothing :/
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Jan 23, 2015 21:31
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double nine posted:In all honesty, I think obsidian can pull of building their own horror fantasy universe if they wanted to. The problem (as always) is funding. I hope that their Eternity project gets them all the moneys so they can do projects like this. If Torment: Tides of Numenera is any indication, there are a lot of deep-pocketed nerds in their 30's willing to toss $100 at a studio that wants to resurrect an old favorite.
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Jan 23, 2015 21:33
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Zeroisanumber posted:If Torment: Tides of Numenera is any indication, there are a lot of deep-pocketed nerds in their 30's willing to toss $100 at a studio that wants to resurrect an old favorite. Hey, I'm a nerd in my 30s (well, 29). I wish I had $100 to throw their way.
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Jan 23, 2015 21:34
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ulmont posted:Perfect resurrection below level 6 spheres seems inconsistent with there no longer being any reliable way to achieve immortality through magic, aka the Tremere problem. There's a built-in limiter of Paradox. Resurrection definitely falls into the "Vulgar as all hell" category, so while you could maybe get away with some "advanced CPR" at the moment of death to bring back someone with not much of a hit, bringing back your long lost dog Seymour would definitely ding you hard, and keeping someone alive for centuries is even worse. It's really a fuzzy system that requires the ST to keep players in check, but the ST (like any DM-type) has a lot of tools at his/her disposal to smack the players down if they start getting ridiculous. Edit: Desumaytah posted:Wait, can two vampires sire one vampire by "taking turns" during the process? If so, do they have to be of the same clan? If a fifth-gen starts the siring process and a seventh- or eighth-gen takes over, are their weird effects? Can you make some sort of multi-clan abomination, or will the potential new baby vampire just die from all the stress? I'm assuming the latter. OAquinas fucked around with this message at 22:24 on Jan 23, 2015 |
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Jan 23, 2015 22:18
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Pickled Tink posted:Or it could have been that a seventh gen had a patsy grab you and drain you to unconsciousness, then finished the job of siring you themselves before leaving the loyal/dominated/blood bound patsy to take the fall knowing that LaCroix is a moron and wouldn't investigate properly in his zeal to show he is upholding the Camarilla traditions in his new city. Hell, they may have even been the one who tipped off the Cam, just to set the events in motion. It's not like they even bothered questioning your "sire" before they dusted him. Wait, can two vampires sire one vampire by "taking turns" during the process? If so, do they have to be of the same clan? If a fifth-gen starts the siring process and a seventh- or eighth-gen takes over, are their weird effects? Can you make some sort of multi-clan abomination, or will the potential new baby vampire just die from all the stress? I'm assuming the latter.
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Jan 23, 2015 22:22
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Desumaytah posted:Wait, can two vampires sire one vampire by "taking turns" during the process? If so, do they have to be of the same clan? If a fifth-gen starts the siring process and a seventh- or eighth-gen takes over, are their weird effects? Can you make some sort of multi-clan abomination, or will the potential new baby vampire just die from all the stress? I'm assuming the latter. GrimRevenant fucked around with this message at 22:39 on Jan 23, 2015 |
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Jan 23, 2015 22:34
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ulmont posted:Perfect resurrection below level 6 spheres seems inconsistent with there no longer being any reliable way to achieve immortality through magic, aka the Tremere problem. Funnily enough, 1st and I believe 2nd edition made it possible to stop or undo aging using Life, and below 6, at that. The drawback was that being found out by a Sleeper would trigger a backlash, and just having your aging frozen would leave you with permanent Paradox. There's also whatever method the FACADE Engineers use to create 'backups' of important Technocrats, which is technically a sort of immortality/resurrection. Pussy Cartel fucked around with this message at 22:46 on Jan 23, 2015 |
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Jan 23, 2015 22:43
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