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Zeitgueist posted:You have some dumb as poo poo ideas about racism and privilege.  The 'aegis' part is people from a position of privilege (usually economic) not worrying about no-knock raids, police brutality, mike brown etc. because 'it would never to them,' only to those others. That is a destructive position to hold.
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Jan 23, 2015 19:49
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No, I think he has a cogent point (at least as I'm reading it): that once the encounter has crossed over into police abuse, the skin color of the victim becomes dramatically less important to what's going to happen. It's not something that can be dismissed out of hand (without looking at correlation between race of victim and extent of injuries, subsequent charges against either the victim or the officer, subsequent administrative action against the officer, or subsequent verdicts/settlements against the department). I think "myth of privilege" isn't "a myth perpetuated by the critique of white privilege" but "a myth perpetuated by white privilege that, by virtue of whiteness, you are safe from police misconduct."
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Jan 23, 2015 19:49
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Soviet Commubot posted:I will never not find it hilarious that the cop threads are in GiP. Firefighter threads are, too. It's more of a public servant thingy.
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Jan 23, 2015 19:50
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The Warszawa posted:"a myth perpetuated by white privilege that, by virtue of whiteness, you are safe from police misconduct." Exactly. Though I subscribe more to class privilege rather then race, but that comparison is a different discussion for a different thread and of course both are very relevant in a discussion about police reform.
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Jan 23, 2015 19:52
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The Warszawa posted:No, I think he has a cogent point (at least as I'm reading it): that once the encounter has crossed over into police abuse, the skin color of the victim becomes dramatically less important to what's going to happen. I don't think that's true. I think that a white victim of police abuse is: 1. More likely to have the abuse stopped on the scene by fellow officers 2. More able to file legal challenge and abuse reports 3. More likely to be believed by IA/etc when they do tell their story 4. More likely to receive media coverage and positive media coverage Remember the statistics bear out that more minorities are abused and harmed by police than whites. While that is of course a function of the overexposure to police that minorities face, I think its silly to pretend that once the batons start flying that black skin doesn't get beat more than white skin. Just because white people aren't 100% safe from the police doesn't mean they're not vastly more safer than non-whites.
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Jan 23, 2015 19:53
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Vahakyla posted:Firefighter threads are, too. It's more of a public servant thingy. Where are the EMT threads, Goon Doctor?
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Jan 23, 2015 19:53
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Powercrazy posted:Exactly. Though I subscribe more to class privilege rather then race, but that comparison is a different discussion for a different thread and of course both are very relevant in a discussion about police reform. Well, they're not mutually exclusive, but you're right that it's not pertinent to this thread.
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Jan 23, 2015 19:54
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Powercrazy posted:Exactly. Though I subscribe more to class privilege rather then race, but that comparison is a different discussion for a different thread and of course both are very relevant in a discussion about police reform. Fair enough, I misread your post. However I don't believe that a lot of folks think they're protected from police violence due to privilege, but rather that's simply a cynical position held by folks as a commentary on racism in policing. The people who don't think the police are going to beat them down are generally doing so because Just World bullshit.
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Jan 23, 2015 19:55
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Trabisnikof posted:I don't think that's true. I think that a white victim of police abuse is: I'm not saying the point is necessarily correct, but it's an arguable point. Like I said: The Warszawa posted:It's not something that can be dismissed out of hand (without looking at correlation between race of victim and extent of injuries, subsequent charges against either the victim or the officer, subsequent administrative action against the officer, or subsequent verdicts/settlements against the department).
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Jan 23, 2015 19:55
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Vahakyla posted:Firefighter threads are, too. It's more of a public servant thingy. It's ADTRW for authoritarians of various severity. We don't want them anywhere else and they need reinforcement (no pun intended).
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Jan 23, 2015 19:55
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The whole "Thug attacks metro worker" becoming "Police officer involved in alleged altercation with a metro worker" within an hour on the same mainstream news site broke my mind.
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Jan 23, 2015 19:56
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LorneReams posted:The whole "Thug attacks metro worker" becoming "Police officer involved in alleged altercation with a metro worker" within an hour on the same mainstream news site broke my mind. It was the New York Daily News, so let's not freak out too hard. I mean, this is itself an issue with stratified media consumption reinforcing particularized narratives.
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Jan 23, 2015 19:58
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Powercrazy posted:
No it isn't. When the cop showed up he asked if I would be shooting at a range or other legal space then told the girl she had wasted his time. She called the cops on her neighbor because she saw me putting rifle cases and some ammunition in my car. I hadn't realized she was the reason he rolled up until then, which was kind of a dick move to her on the cop's part but I'm not some grudge holding weirdo so I didn't freak out on her. If everyone who saw a gun get put in a car called the cops in on Indiana then the cops would need like a thousand phone lines during hunting seasons. mlmp08 fucked around with this message at 20:08 on Jan 23, 2015 |
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Jan 23, 2015 20:06
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Shouldn't the 911 operator have told her there's plenty of legal reasons for putting a gun in your trunk, and that she lives in America where due to freedoms you sometimes have to mind your own business when you don't feel like it?
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Jan 23, 2015 20:13
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Intel&Sebastian posted:Shouldn't the 911 operator have told her there's plenty of legal reasons for putting a gun in your trunk, and that she lives in America where due to freedoms you sometimes have to mind your own business when you don't feel like it? Maybe but I've no idea how she worded it when she called he cops.
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Jan 23, 2015 20:14
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Intel&Sebastian posted:Shouldn't the 911 operator have told her there's plenty of legal reasons for putting a gun in your trunk, and that she lives in America where due to freedoms you sometimes have to mind your own business when you don't feel like it? Shouldn't the 911 operator tell police when a caller said the weapon they saw was probably fake? Which means its time for another "simple suggestion that will be dismissed as already happening even when it clearly isn't": Police departments should be required to check with former law enforcement employers of potential new employees.
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Jan 23, 2015 20:17
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Cop shoots guy in the back c/d? http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/watch-oklahoma-body-cam-shows-fatal-police-shooting-article-1.2089630
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Jan 23, 2015 21:19
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Has this video been posted yet? http://photographyisnotacrime.com/2015/01/oklahoma-cop-records-shooting-killing-fleeing-man/ The guy is probably a little jumpy since he (probably?) has a gun. He runs, then drops something, picks it up and starts running again, and is shot to death. The cop claims that he was pointing a gun at him, but to me it just looks like he's running. EDIT: beaten
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Jan 23, 2015 21:22
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Gropiemon posted:Cop shoots guy in the back c/d? Witness on the scene said the cop did "everything right" so case closed.
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Jan 23, 2015 21:23
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I don't hear or see anything to make me suspect that he threatened the cop, he just ran and was shot and killed for it.
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Jan 23, 2015 21:25
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Hands up, Hold Still, and maybe he won't shoot you for kicks like that lady officer at the gas station incident last year.
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Jan 23, 2015 21:26
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he reached down which means if this dead guy was chris kyle he could have shot the cop in the head from under his armpit, cop cleared of all wrongdoing
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Jan 23, 2015 21:27
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Trabisnikof posted:Witness on the scene said the cop did "everything right" so case closed. To be fair if you are a witness and you say cops did bad they may harass the poo poo out of you and threaten you.
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Jan 23, 2015 21:29
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joeburz posted:he reached down which means if this dead guy was chris kyle he could have shot the cop in the head from under his armpit, cop cleared of all wrongdoing Lord help you if your arresting officer has ever watched Alien: Ressurection or played one of the Metal Gear Games where Ocelot uses his revolvers.
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Jan 23, 2015 21:55
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So I'm confused this guy who was harassing his ex girlfriend shows up to her Church, cops get called. Cops pats down the dude, finds a gun and the dude is able to run off with the gun? Drops...something, picks it up and is shot in the back? Right? What are the gun laws in Oklahoma like? Cause on face value cop shooting fleeing suspect with a gun does seem reasonable.
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Jan 23, 2015 21:59
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KomradeX posted:Cause on face value cop shooting fleeing suspect with a gun does seem reasonable. uhh huh I don't think he threatened the cop from what I can see and hear in that video, and I don't think "man fleeing" is enough to be considered an imminent threat to those around him.
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Jan 23, 2015 22:02
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quote:Moments later, an emotional McMillin collapsed on another cop’s car. "Why'd (Walker) have to do that?" he asked when other officers tried to comfort him. McMillin was put on paid leave after the shooting — his second in a six-month period. In July, McMillin shot a knife-wielding man who stabbed a victim and then advanced toward a group of cops. The suspect, Angel Cerda, survived, and McMillin was cleared in the case. I feel bad for the guy, he just wants to do his job enforcing the laws and people try to stab and shoot him.
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Jan 23, 2015 22:18
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GreyPowerVan posted:uhh huh Well I did say on face value, that most people would see that as reasonable since an armed suspect can represent a threat to those around them. Now it is entirely possible I say this because media has shown me through many cop movies and TV shows that this is the case. I'm not saying the cops actions were correct, I'm more confused about if he patted the guy down and found a gun, how did the guy get away with the gun?
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Jan 23, 2015 22:32
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KomradeX posted:Well I did say on face value, that most people would see that as reasonable since an armed suspect can represent a threat to those around them. Now it is entirely possible I say this because media has shown me through many cop movies and TV shows that this is the case. I'm not saying the cops actions were correct, I'm more confused about if he patted the guy down and found a gun, how did the guy get away with the gun? He was in the process of patting the guy down when he started running.
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Jan 23, 2015 22:35
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KomradeX posted:Well I did say on face value, that most people would see that as reasonable since an armed suspect can represent a threat to those around them. Now it is entirely possible I say this because media has shown me through many cop movies and TV shows that this is the case. I'm not saying the cops actions were correct, I'm more confused about if he patted the guy down and found a gun, how did the guy get away with the gun? If only there was some sort of place that decided when a police officer could shoot a fleeing felon.
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Jan 23, 2015 22:37
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Trabisnikof posted:If only there was some sort of place that decided when a police officer could shoot a fleeing felon. Well we all know police in ~the line of duty~ are basically sitting ducks for thugs and crackheads, the fleeing guy was probably trying to lead that poor cop into a gang ambush or something. Case closed.
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Jan 23, 2015 22:51
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GreyPowerVan posted:He was in the process of patting the guy down when he started running. Okay that makes sense, the way i read the article sounded like he had found and taken the gun. Trabisnikof posted:If only there was some sort of place that decided when a police officer could shoot a fleeing felon. That's good to know, thank you for that. But to make my own position clear, I think its awful that this man was shot and I didn't know enough about the incident even after reading the Daily News article to say one way or another if this was a blatant act of police abuse.
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Jan 23, 2015 23:31
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KomradeX posted:Okay that makes sense, the way i read the article sounded like he had found and taken the gun. Even if it isn't a blatant act of police abuse it is at least emblematic of the systemic issue with police violence. Technically, Garner & Brown weren't examples of "blatant acts of police abuse" either. Its a pretty high bar.
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Jan 23, 2015 23:36
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Vahakyla posted:Firefighter threads are, too. It's more of a public servant thingy. I'm an elementary school teacher now, is GiP where I should post about teaching? I do get paid by the state.
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Jan 23, 2015 23:38
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Trabisnikof posted:Even if it isn't a blatant act of police abuse it is at least emblematic of the systemic issue with police violence. Technically, Garner & Brown weren't examples of "blatant acts of police abuse" either. Its a pretty high bar. I don't know to be Garner and Brown were pretty blatant to me at least and the response by the police out in Missouri was even more blatant. Where this incident while tragic, can easily be seen as the police fearing for public safety with someone who is armed and can presumed to be dangerous out and about is an easy for many people to nod along with, before you even get into the latent (and active) racism in our society. Though I guess he could have tried to deploy a taser, or even have fallen back and called for back up and a manhunt if it was warranted though in that second case I don't see it not ending with him being killed by the police either.
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Jan 23, 2015 23:44
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KomradeX posted:I don't know to be Garner and Brown were pretty blatant to me at least and the response by the police out in Missouri was even more blatant. Where this incident while tragic, can easily be seen as the police fearing for public safety with someone who is armed and can presumed to be dangerous out and about is an easy for many people to nod along with, before you even get into the latent (and active) racism in our society. Though I guess he could have tried to deploy a taser, or even have fallen back and called for back up and a manhunt if it was warranted though in that second case I don't see it not ending with him being killed by the police either. But this the whole point. It doesn't matter how "blatant" you or I think something was, it wasn't illegal according to the Justice system. It wasn't blatantly illegal or wrong. It wasn't a "choke hold." etc. And when you end up justify a police killing with "well, the police would have killed him later anyway" its clear that there is a overarching issue of police violence.
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Jan 23, 2015 23:48
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Soviet Commubot posted:I'm an elementary school teacher now, is GiP where I should post about teaching? I do get paid by the state. Not that kind of public servant, silly.
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Jan 24, 2015 00:04
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Zeitgueist posted:Not that kind of public servant, silly. GiP needs a Health Inspector thread obviously. Also, remember you can use emoji to "threaten" the police and they will arrest you for it: quote:According to a criminal complaint, Osiris Aristy was arrested at his home on Wyckoff Avenue at around 2:46 a.m. on Sunday, after an informant with the police department spotted a series of troubling posts on his Facebook page. These, according to the complaint, included photos of himself posing with drugs, gang signs and guns, but cops were primarily concerned about the emoji-heavy "threats" referencing the NYPD.
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Jan 24, 2015 00:09
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Soviet Commubot posted:I'm an elementary school teacher now, is GiP where I should post about teaching? I do get paid by the state. Do you teach at an "inner-city," you know, with the gangs? If so they may accept your stories with open arms.
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Jan 24, 2015 00:13
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Philip Rivers posted:Well we all know police in ~the line of duty~ are basically sitting ducks for thugs and crackheads, the fleeing guy was probably trying to lead that poor cop into a gang ambush or something. Case closed. Mamma ducks do that with my Labrador. It's ugly.
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Jan 24, 2015 00:24
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