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Would be a lot more convincing if prophecies didn't keep coming true. The characters always gently caress up interpreting prophecies, in keeping with Greek tragedy, but we readers have access to more information than they do.
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Jan 23, 2015 04:31
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It would be legitimately surprising if Martin just swerves and there is no Azor Ahai. Just gotta beat back the Others with good old fashioned Valyrian steel/ obsidian, at great cost to humanity.
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Jan 23, 2015 04:33
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Huh apparently Sophie Turner is going to be Jean Grey in the new X-Men movie. That'll take a bit of getting used to.
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Jan 23, 2015 04:42
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In It For The Tank posted:Would be a lot more convincing if prophecies didn't keep coming true. The characters always gently caress up interpreting prophecies, in keeping with Greek tragedy, but we readers have access to more information than they do. That's true, but somehow characters still keep ending up prick-less.
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Jan 23, 2015 11:57
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One cool thing that GRRM is doing (at least I think he is doing this intentionally) is exploiting the inaccuracy of historical record-keeping to make the true history of his world really opaque. For example, we think that we have a pretty good grasp of what happened with the war with the Others, the founding of the Nights Watch, and purpose of The Wall. We think this because we have been told the commonly accepted history of what happened according to the Maesters and the Northmen. But what about history according to Essos? Or from lands even farther East? Did they not experience the Long Night/War for the Dawn (the fact that there are two different names for what was probably the same event is our first hint that there are several interpretations)? If they did experience these events, what are THEIR legends? Well it turns out GRRM actually includes some of these conflicting tales. "The Prince that was Promised" vs. "Azor Ahai"...are these the same prophecy with different names? Are they different prophecies both referring to same past historical event? How about the specifics of the War for Dawn...How was it won? What is the difference between the hero and his seven companions and Azor Ahai? Are they the same person, are they the Night King? GRRM gives us hints towards history not being completely true to the tale we've been told when Sam is searching the library at The Wall. He is finding all kinds of old scrolls that conflict with the Maester's accounts, but he abandons this project when The Lord Commander recruits him for the march north, and never gets a chance to start it up again. One thing the new book makes kind of clear is that something bad happened at some point in the past (8000 years ago? 1000?) that screwed up the world's climate and may have left Asshai a semi-nuclear wasteland. Did a moon really fall from the sky? Did some magic go haywire? I think that some of these things might get answered near the end, but I have no idea.
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Jan 23, 2015 13:04
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Quite a lot of characters seem to be able candidates for Azor Ahai: Davos, Stannis, Dondarrion before he died, Cat, Jaime, Brienne, the entire Night's Watch, even Wyman Manderly and a bunch of others. I'd like it if a number of characters contribute to defeating the Others and doing whatever but none of them are specifically pointed out in the text as being the chosen one. So it could be any of them or all of them.
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Jan 23, 2015 14:16
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The Azor Azhai/ Prince that was Promised prophecy is so vague that any character could fill it. I'm pretty sure I could make a solid argument that Cersei and Moon Boy are Azor Azhai.
QuoProQuid fucked around with this message at 19:37 on Jan 23, 2015 |
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Jan 23, 2015 14:42
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Prophecy itself is dumb. I hope none of them are fulfilled, even by the farthest of stretches.
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Jan 23, 2015 18:03
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colonel_korn posted:Huh apparently Sophie Turner is going to be Jean Grey in the new X-Men movie. That'll take a bit of getting used to. Must have been that Dark Phoenix outfit she was wearing at the end of the season. The valonquor is actually her's and Jaime's triplet that she devoured in the womb and has been growing inside of her.
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Jan 23, 2015 18:30
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Macdeo Lurjtux posted:The valonquor is actually her's and Jaime's triplet that she devoured in the womb and has been growing inside of her. Ah yes, Jonas Junior Lannister.
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Jan 23, 2015 19:32
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QuoProQuid posted:The Azor Azhai/ Prince that was Promised prophecy is so vague that any character could fill it. I'm pretty sure I could make a solid argument that Cersei and Moon Boy are Azor Azhai. And I, would challenge you to do so.  Just because it would be interesting to see how the books can be interpreted that way. Make the case for Moon Boy 
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Jan 23, 2015 22:49
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QuoProQuid posted:I'm pretty sure I could make a solid argument that Cersei and Moon Boy are Azor Azhai. I'm gonna take that "and" literally, and demand an explanation of how they, as a combined entity, are Azor Azhai. I'm talking some serious Gotenks or Tyler Durden poo poo here.
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Jan 24, 2015 03:16
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I would wholeheartedly read that fanfic.
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Jan 24, 2015 04:36
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Everyone is Azor Ahai
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Jan 24, 2015 05:19
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Mortabis posted:Everyone is Azor Ahai You heard it here first folks: the show is going to end with every surviving character lining up and just kicking the Night's King in the nards for 60 straight minutes. It is known.
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Jan 24, 2015 10:50
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The final episode will be a live event at Comic-Con.
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Jan 24, 2015 11:42
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In the final episode, Jon will be taken to the Others' citadel, and told of their master plan. The Others are an ancient, sentient race who were created to wipe out civilizations when they got too advanced, too dependent on magic, too expansive and too violent. Humans (and races that came before them) could only last so long before their petty wars, sorcery and greed brought about unimaginable suffering. So the Others destroy them, take a sample of their race (in the form of the risen dead and transformed babbys) and plant the seeds for the next race to rise up (such as dragon eggs, ancient tomes and lingering magic). As time goes on, they build a collective of the best of each race, a 'master race' of their kind if you will. In a way, their aim is to preserve life without letting it get too out of hand. They believe that their work is the only way to ensure that life continues despite the self destructive nature of man and beast. They also believe that every race will grow to harness magic and darker arts and that they will eventually be wiped out by the misuse of said sorcery. Every few thousand year they go from being a threat to a memory, to a legend, to a song, and eventually they're just a silly tale that keeps gullible children up at night. When this is explained to Jon (who has already been made an amalgamation of man, magic and Other), he is told that he is Azor Ahai, the one being trusted to end this cycle of harvest, and given a choice. He could choose to destroy the Others, and with them all evidence of their existence, all remnants of past civilizations, and the use of all magics. He could choose to lead the Others as their god, ensuring that their great works continue (or don't, if he so chooses). He could choose to unite humanity with the Others, causing all life on the planet to become infused with magical energy, ensuring an advanced, if dangerous future for all. At that point the episode pauses, and audiences use their remote to choose for Jon. The choice doesn't affect the last 5 minute of the show in any way though. Credits roll.
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Jan 24, 2015 12:41
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That sounds like the most terrible thing.
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Jan 24, 2015 12:44
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You forgot the bit where all life becomes half-ice on a genetic level. I don't know what that means either.
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Jan 24, 2015 12:52
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Grendels Dad posted:That sounds like the most terrible thing. It's the original ending of Mass Effect 3, as blatantly stolen from Babylon 5. gently caress Bioware with a hammer.
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Jan 24, 2015 13:06
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Jedit posted:It's the original ending of Mass Effect 3, as blatantly stolen from Babylon 5. gently caress Bioware with a hammer. No, the original ending was galactic warming, but it got leaked and they changed it before release to something only slightly less terrible.
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Jan 24, 2015 14:05
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Isn't galactic warming a good thing? reverse entropy etc... you know what let's not do this derail.
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Jan 24, 2015 14:06
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QuoProQuid posted:The Azor Azhai/ Prince that was Promised prophecy is so vague that any character could fill it. I'm pretty sure I could make a solid argument that Cersei and Moon Boy are Azor Azhai. It could be, for all we know.
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Jan 24, 2015 15:49
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Emerson Cod posted:It could be, for all we know. Prophecies are just words and words are wind.
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Jan 24, 2015 16:42
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Skeesix posted:Prophecies are just words and words are wind. Intangible, but real; and harsh in the winter?
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Jan 24, 2015 16:43
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Steve2911 posted:grrm effect 3 You horrible genius.
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Jan 24, 2015 22:45
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Even the breastplate neeps will be part ice!
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Jan 25, 2015 02:50
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Irish Joe posted:Intangible, but real; and harsh in the winter? You can put them in a balloon and fly away?
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Jan 25, 2015 05:02
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Frostwerks posted:You can put them in a balloon and fly away? Use them to power windmills?
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Jan 25, 2015 07:30
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COOKIEMONSTER posted:Use them to power windmills? Fly out of the rear end of fat men?
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Jan 25, 2015 14:58
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So any chance they'll leave Quentyn's looney tunes ending in there untouched? I am going to guess they won't at this point. It'll be too much like Oberons unless they play it for laughs - which they won't even though I loving laughed my head off goddamn. One of my favourite scenes pretty much. Poor bastard could not catch a break. For Sale: Dornish Boots! Slightly singed.
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Jan 26, 2015 11:02
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Tambaloneus posted:So any chance they'll leave Quentyn's looney tunes ending in there untouched? I am going to guess they won't at this point. It'll be too much like Oberons unless they play it for laughs - which they won't even though I loving laughed my head off goddamn. One of my favourite scenes pretty much. Poor bastard could not catch a break. Quentyn may not exist at all in the show.
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Jan 26, 2015 11:12
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Lycus posted:Quentyn may not exist at all in the show. Turns out the dragon burned him so efficiently he was erased from all other forms of media.
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Jan 26, 2015 13:30
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Dalael posted:And I, would challenge you to do so. I might have been exaggerating a little, but here: Azor Ahai is prophesied to be the leader of the Three Headed Dragon. Early in the series, Moon Boy becomes one of three jesters serving in King's Landing at the same time (along with Dontos and Butterbumps). This event is noted to be extremely unusual and, due to his seniority, Moon Boy is the technical leader of the three. It should also be noted that while the Three Headed Dragon has traditionally been a symbol of House Targaryen, it is also used to represent the various institutions created by the Iron Throne, such as the Mint. The Court Jester is one such position. Further, we see Moon Boy perform in A Clash of Kings immediately before the Siege on King's Landing. Amidst smoke, as the Queen's Ballroom is described as being filled with torches, and salt, as the Queen's court is described as weeping uncontrollably, the fools engage in a mock battle on broomstick horses. It is during this battle, with the bleeding star overhead, that Moon Boy reveals his weapon: wit and humor. While it might not be a literal sword, Moon Boy's antics still holds back "the cold breath of darkness that [has fallen] heavy on the world" by keeping the court merry. GRRM makes a point of describing Lolly as "shivering" in fear as they wait for news of the battle. As we can now see, Moon Boy's conquest is not one of swords, but of minds. Though Jaime's dark eye does fall upon him, Moon Boy remains well-liked by almost all that meet him. His influence is so profound that Tommen tries to name a ship after him, foreshadowing that Moon Boy will convince the boy-king to lay down his weapons and bring peace to the Seven Kingdoms through laughter. Truly, Moon Boy is Azor Ahai, the Prince that was Promised. Though they may not realize it, all of Westeros is unworthy to stand in the presence of this unsung hero. My point was that I dislike prophecy, because it can be stretched to fit almost any event and circumstance, no matter how ridiculous. Supposed prophecies in the real world should be evidence enough of that. nine-gear crow posted:You heard it here first folks: the show is going to end with every surviving character lining up and just kicking the Night's King in the nards for 60 straight minutes. That would be a good ending. QuoProQuid fucked around with this message at 16:54 on Jan 26, 2015 |
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Jan 26, 2015 16:45
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QuoProQuid posted:My point was that I dislike prophecy, because it can be stretched to fit almost any event and circumstance, no matter how ridiculous. Supposed prophecies in the real world should be evidence enough of that. I still think that's the point of the Maester Marwyn line. While prophecies may eventually come true, they're so vague and bullshit they can be interpreted fifteen different ways depending on the interpret and translations and what you want to use it for that there'S no way to come out of it on top int he end. Unless you mad eit up yourself tos erve your own ends, of course. And even then.
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Jan 27, 2015 09:44
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Tambaloneus posted:So any chance they'll leave Quentyn's looney tunes ending in there untouched? Where he flies away on a dragon? It would be a pretty big plot point to cut.
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Jan 27, 2015 14:28
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Quentyn's entire contribution to the story could be accomplished by having a drunk guard forget to close a door.
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Jan 27, 2015 15:06
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rydiafan posted:Quentyn's entire contribution to the story could be accomplished by having a drunk guard forget to close a door. We wouldn't get any Golden Company development that way, though, and look how important they're definitely going to be
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Jan 27, 2015 15:45
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As always, Quentyn's significance is threefold: - he releases the dragons - his death will compel Doran to side with Aegon over Dany, escalating the upcoming Dance of Dragons - he provides a look at the dire consequences of Dany's liberation of the Slaver Bay, particularly in Astapor, and offers a glimpse at the politics of the sellsword companies
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Jan 27, 2015 17:03
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If the Golden Company is in we better get some war elephants, Jon Connington seemed pretty confident that they will cause some serious mayhem in Westeros.
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Jan 27, 2015 17:07
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