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ActusRhesus posted:OK. Angela Braden is a journalist. drat. Fair enough, that is fairly damning. \/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/ No, no, you got me there, the evidence is overwhelmingly in favor of your position. CommieGIR fucked around with this message at 20:50 on Jan 22, 2015 |
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Jan 22, 2015 20:45
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CommieGIR posted:We can refute studies based on a single study? Once again: I'll agree to disagree, further research is required, but I don't think that paper is going to count as a total refutation. but YOU are the one saying sleep training is harmful, therefore the onus is on YOU to back that up. TheKennedys posted:I feel like people that are rabidly anti-CIO think we're leaving our kid to scream incessantly for hours on end, months at a time. I have a friend whose twins had to be rocked to sleep until they were almost 2 because she never let them learn to get themselves to sleep for fear of them thinking she'd abandoned them or something. There's actually a SOMEWHERE IN THE MIDDLE LOL that doesn't lead to overly-codependent toddlers or screeching newborns, and it's called "let them cry for 5-10 minutes, go tuck them back in and put a music box on or something, leave the room, repeat until sleep happens". And it only takes a couple of weeks (at 4-6 months old), and leads to kids that know how to self-comfort! Gasp, shock. I really think people put way too much thought into this and exaggerate/intentionally misrepresent the other side to make their methods look like the only "humane" one. This. The most widespread "cry it out" method is the "Ferber Method" and that explicitly requires 1. that the kid be old enough to go hours without feeding (i.e. not a newborn) and 2. You don't ignore them...you wait a little bit, you go into their room, and you reassure them with your presence..."I am here. I love you. But it is time to go to sleep now" but you make it clear to them that it is time to go to sleep and you are not going to pick them up because it's bedtime and 3. you keep bedtime rituals consistent. And I'm not saying it's the right call for every child or even every parent. if the idea of it horrifies you as a parent, don't do it. But don't suggest others are doing irreparable harm to their children for taking a parenting approach that differs from yours. (unless we are talking about not vaccinating...because science says vaccinate your drat kid) ActusRhesus fucked around with this message at 20:53 on Jan 22, 2015 |
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Jan 22, 2015 20:49
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Oh, The Onion, just keep emulating real life  http://www.theonion.com/articles/di...irc=health-care quote:LOS ANGELES—Following a flare-up of measles in California and reports of new cases across several western states this week, the disease diphtheria told reporters Thursday that it was excited about the possibility of a new outbreak in America. “I really didn’t think I stood a chance of re-emerging in a developed country again, but this measles thing is giving me some hope—I mean, why not me?” said the deadly contagious infection that has been virtually nonexistent in the United States since a vaccine was introduced in the 1920s. “I don’t want to get ahead of myself, obviously, but these days I just feel like anything’s possible. Man, another epidemic! If I get a second opportunity, I’ll definitely make the most of it.” Diphtheria went on to say that, if everything really fell into place, it’d be able to reunite in the human population with typhus and polio.
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Jan 22, 2015 21:07
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Heh, The Onion is a bit too good at times with the whole uncomfortable truths.
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Jan 22, 2015 21:27
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ActusRhesus posted:funny you should mention that. Featuring our very favorite Dr. Bob Sears: Ughhhh i mean orac is pretty much always on point, but I have never seen someone write way too loving much in so many articles as him. It's like after he writes, he goes back and says "All right, how can I cram in about 4 more clauses that add nothing at all." Like look at this: quote:I like to call it the argumentum ad Brady Bunchium. Sometimes I call it the “appeal to the Brady Bunch” or, more generally, the “appeal to classic television” vaccine fallacy. What do I mean by that? The entire second and third sentences are completely not needed. I used to have RI in my feedly, but just couldn't take it anymore. Anyway, rant over. He's an incredibly annoying writer, but he's usually 100% right as a scientist and surgeon. pathetic little tramp fucked around with this message at 21:47 on Jan 22, 2015 |
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Jan 22, 2015 21:44
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CommieGIR posted:So highlight where she said sleep training actually damages brain cells, which is what the Pediatrician was correctly refuting? She simply said that CIO might have affects on brain development, not 'damage brain cells' which he is refuting. She is arguing that there is mental positives to your child's cognitive development by not practicing CIO as far as future brain psychological development due to positive reinforcement being the ones for infants to most likely carry on into cognitive development. I have twins that we had them cry it out. The first night was 90 mins. The second was 30, by the end of the week they would fall asleep in minutes. Now they are three years of age and score 99 percentile in cognitive. Am I confusing CIO with what I did? We were literally getting no sleep until we did this.
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Jan 22, 2015 21:53
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Have you seen my apex seals? I seem to have lost them.
Or Dr. Sears....
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Aeka 2.0 posted:I have twins that we had them cry it out. The first night was 90 mins. The second was 30, by the end of the week they would fall asleep in minutes. Now they are three years of age and score 99 percentile in cognitive. Am I confusing CIO with what I did? We were literally getting no sleep until we did this. CommieGIR posted:drat. Fair enough, that is fairly damning. Overwhelming evidence proved me wrong already.
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Jan 22, 2015 21:54
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CommieGIR posted:Oh, The Onion, just keep emulating real life In the same vein today: "I Don’t Vaccinate My Child Because It’s My Right To Decide What Eliminated Diseases Come Roaring Back" quote:As a mother, I put my parenting decisions above all else. Nobody knows my son better than me, and the choices I make about how to care for him are no one’s business but my own. So, when other people tell me how they think I should be raising my child, I simply can’t tolerate it. Regardless of what anyone else thinks, I fully stand behind my choices as a mom, including my choice not to vaccinate my son, because it is my fundamental right as a parent to decide which eradicated diseases come roaring back.
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Jan 23, 2015 22:45
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CommieGIR posted:Oh, The Onion, just keep emulating real life gently caress me sideways, this knocks it out of the ballpark. I hope every antivaxxer dies and spends the rest of eternity in the nine fires of hell. Especially Jenny McCarthy and Bill Maher. Those two can go gently caress themselves.
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Jan 24, 2015 02:51
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Gen. Ripper posted:gently caress me sideways, this knocks it out of the ballpark. Bill Maher is more of a doofus then a hardcore denier. McCarthy is the full on, screaming bat-poo poo crazy denier. She's just so insanely desperate for a reason why her child is autisitc/downs whatever that first she spent a year or two hardcore into the "indigo child" bullshit then jumped right into the Wakefield anti-vax stuff right before it peaked in the public consciousness (2004/5ish) and was the "celebrity guest" brought on to "discuss" the issues on tv shows or roundtables with M.Ds and P.hds which mostly consisted or her screaming at them to shut up when they corrected her.
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Jan 24, 2015 11:40
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Gen. Ripper posted:gently caress me sideways, this knocks it out of the ballpark. I'm taking Microbiology this semester and the professor is very keen on teaching in context of antibiotics and vaccinations (all the students are either Nursing or Pharmacy). This is the first time I'm learning in depth how these diseases work and what people lived and died with prior to the knowledge we have now. Before these classes I just thought of anti-vaxxers as ignorant and rolled my eyes. Now I want these people strung up for child neglect and public endangerment. A few pages ago someone suggested Disney create a pro-vaccination campaign. They ought to bring back Body Wars but with Muppets or Boba Fett (or both) - teach the kids how great this science is!
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Jan 24, 2015 16:05
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SUPERMAN'S GAL PAL posted:I'm taking Microbiology this semester and the professor is very keen on teaching in context of antibiotics and vaccinations (all the students are either Nursing or Pharmacy). This is the first time I'm learning in depth how these diseases work and what people lived and died with prior to the knowledge we have now. Before these classes I just thought of anti-vaxxers as ignorant and rolled my eyes. Now I want these people strung up for child neglect and public endangerment. Between 2003-9 I think was the peak of the anti-vax insanity. Wakefield's paper was formally retracted in 2010 which dealt a huge blow to the casual anti-vaxxers. Now the kids from the peak "vaccines cause autism" era are out and about in high risk environments like public schools, amusement parks, and sports games.
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Jan 24, 2015 19:16
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The comments section for the onion article is littered with poo poo like this. Edit:   
Elderbean fucked around with this message at 19:45 on Jan 24, 2015 |
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Jan 24, 2015 19:31
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Elderbean posted:The comments section for the onion article is littered with poo poo like this. It's actually a very telling comment- the author treats both "nature" and "pharma" as almost completely unknown black box quantities, with few discernible features. This is what low-information logic motivated by a fear response looks like.
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Jan 24, 2015 19:42
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Elderbean posted:The comments section for the onion article is littered with poo poo like this. If they truly think we're overpopulated, maybe they should stop loving breeding.
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Jan 24, 2015 21:43
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Elderbean posted:The comments section for the onion article is littered with poo poo like this. Never read the comments. Also, anyone who makes a big fart about eating organically needs to choke herself.
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Jan 25, 2015 01:05
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This was posted in the politoons thread. I chuckled.
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Jan 25, 2015 01:51
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Made the mistake of going to an anti-vaccination Facebook group. Okay, I'm done screen-capping now. 
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Jan 25, 2015 02:50
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Gen. Ripper posted:gently caress me sideways, this knocks it out of the ballpark. I honestly wish the feds would just say "gently caress it, enough with these assholes" and start rounding up anti-vaxxers. Start with the ones responsible for this outbreak. Any death it causes is a murder charge, and every patient can be whatever else they feel best fits it. Tack on child abuse/negligence for failing to vaccinate their kids. People who fall in to that tiny group that can't actually be vaccinated are exempt, but the Jenny McCarthy assholes all get to burn and be held liable for every last damage their actions cause. I understand that she's just broken human being to some extent but so what? gently caress her and throw her rear end in a windowless box forever for what she's helped to bring about.
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Jan 25, 2015 03:28
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Woke up this morning to see Michigan has its first case of measles for 2015. Possibly stemming from the Disneyland outbreak. I wish I had a time machine so I could take all these assholes 100 years into the past, and make them explain their bullshit to a room full of grieving parents that have just watched their children die. "Well, scientists actually made a vaccine for the disease that killed your baby and it's very effective but I don't vaccinate my child because [bullshit reasons]". Mental Hospitality fucked around with this message at 05:06 on Jan 25, 2015 |
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Jan 25, 2015 04:40
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Why are you crying? The measles virus wants you to be happy, your child just wasn't able to live symbiotically with it.
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Jan 25, 2015 06:19
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Elderbean posted:Made the mistake of going to an anti-vaccination Facebook group. Okay, I'm done screen-capping now. Yes, I'm sure all those Africans dying of AIDS and Ebola are just "creating bad conditions" for themselves.
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Jan 25, 2015 06:36
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Elderbean posted:Made the mistake of going to an anti-vaccination Facebook group. Okay, I'm done screen-capping now. I didn't know diseases were capable of Stockowning someone.
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Jan 25, 2015 12:39
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No you see smallpox was just misundersto  It's only a matter of time until we have to find some sort of permanent solution to the anti-vaxxer problem. MeLKoR fucked around with this message at 12:42 on Jan 25, 2015 |
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Jan 25, 2015 12:39
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There is a small contingent in the military spouse community that is very anti-vaxx and is always bitching about how the gubbment makes them vaccinate. These same people have husbands and wives who saw disfigured children and adults in areas with no ability to vaccinate during deployment. Nothing like being an enabler for your spouse to spout inane bullshit because you won't make them get a job and they have too much internet time.
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Jan 25, 2015 14:54
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MeLKoR posted:No you see smallpox was just misundersto Or, for a more current disease, shame about all those rich white kids dying of viral meningitis. And, you know, loving measles, these days apparently.
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Jan 25, 2015 15:41
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HLN had a terrible segment on the anti-vaccine movement and what is happening at disney yesterday. They talked about the measles outbreak and how so many aren't vaccinated, then had two anti-vaccine mothers on, one saying that "it is never right to inject poison into your kids" and the other saying that you shouldn't inject all those minerals and chemicals into a 6 pound baby and that is why it was linked to autism and other terrible side effects that were worse than the rare diseases. Then they had a segment of an interview with Wakefield claiming that his study had been replicated in 5 additional countries. And the only thing they did to question any of this was to say the study was never replicated and was retracted.
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Jan 25, 2015 16:14
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Ptolemaeus posted:There is a small contingent in the military spouse community that is very anti-vaxx and is always bitching about how the gubbment makes them vaccinate. These same people have husbands and wives who saw disfigured children and adults in areas with no ability to vaccinate during deployment. Nothing like being an enabler for your spouse to spout inane bullshit because you won't make them get a job and they have too much internet time. As a veteran turned "navy wife" all I can say is I loathe most military spouses. My husband keeps threatening that he will sign me up as command ombudsman. I respond by threatening divorce. Because having to spend any more time around those batshit ham beasts than absolutely necessary is my personal vision of hell.
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Jan 25, 2015 16:56
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ActusRhesus posted:As a veteran turned "navy wife" all I can say is I loathe most military spouses. My husband keeps threatening that he will sign me up as command ombudsman. I respond by threatening divorce. Because having to spend any more time around those batshit ham beasts than absolutely necessary is my personal vision of hell. O God, it would be incredible.  please do it. The resulting A/T thread would be extraordinary. "An attorney among the housewives"- maybe "hambeasts in the mist".
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Jan 25, 2015 17:25
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QuarkJets posted:Why are you crying? The measles virus wants you to be happy, your child just wasn't able to live symbiotically with it. This is a real thing: 
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Jan 25, 2015 17:27
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ActusRhesus posted:As a veteran turned "navy wife" all I can say is I loathe most military spouses. My husband keeps threatening that he will sign me up as command ombudsman. I respond by threatening divorce. Because having to spend any more time around those batshit ham beasts than absolutely necessary is my personal vision of hell. Go on... King Dopplepopolos posted:This is a real thing: ...right down to people having measles parties where they pass the sick kid around to infect their own.
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Jan 25, 2015 17:41
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I CANNOT EJACULATE WITHOUT SEEING NATIVE AMERICANS BRUTALISED!
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I kind of missed the attachment parenting conversation but ho boy. I have seen "Reactive Attachment Disorder" on more referrals than I can count. Then I try to do detective work and find out when and where a qualifed professional made this diagnosis. It's always some unqualified therapist or lovely foster parent who mentions it, and then the social worker writes it in paperwork at some point and there it is.
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Jan 25, 2015 17:45
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King Dopplepopolos posted:This is a real thing: It is a bit disturbing how much these diseases get downplayed. Very frequently the only number focused on is fatalities and any other metric like cost or quality of life are ignored. Slate has a pretty good piece discussing the 1989-1991 measles outbreak in the US. It pulls a good deal of numbers together to call out Bob Sears nothing to fear comment. Slate article posted:What many forget is that we had a massive outbreak of measles in the United States from 1989–1991. While our 644 cases in 2014 seems high compared with recent years, 25 years ago measles incidence spiked to 18,000 cases per year, with a total of more than 55,000 infections before the outbreak began to dwindle. It was the largest measles outbreak in this country since the 1970s.
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Jan 25, 2015 17:56
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Discendo Vox posted:O God, it would be incredible. no. god, no. hahahahahahahahaha. no.
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Jan 26, 2015 00:59
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ActusRhesus posted:As a veteran turned "navy wife" all I can say is I loathe most military spouses. My husband keeps threatening that he will sign me up as command ombudsman. I respond by threatening divorce. Because having to spend any more time around those batshit ham beasts than absolutely necessary is my personal vision of hell. What's the image that's being put forward here? I mean I get a vague sense of middle class, white house wives who turn super patriotic because they married a soldier-boy and then that patriotism leads them down the usual "rah-rah America can do no wrong" road which winds up fighting anything further left than simply not cutting taxes and will generally fight even that and since it's mostly them drat liberals pushing medical care for all and that includes vaccines why then that means they have to fight vaccines as well and..I forgot where I was going with this, but is that about how it looks?
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Jan 26, 2015 05:49
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ActusRhesus posted:no. god, no. hahahahahahahahaha. "dispatches from the back" "not exactly Spartan" C'mon, I have a hundred of these. Doooo itttt. You could write a tell-all book! Take a one-year leave from practice and live among them.
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Jan 26, 2015 06:10
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SedanChair posted:I kind of missed the attachment parenting conversation but ho boy. I have seen "Reactive Attachment Disorder" on more referrals than I can count. Then I try to do detective work and find out when and where a qualifed professional made this diagnosis. It's always some unqualified therapist or lovely foster parent who mentions it, and then the social worker writes it in paperwork at some point and there it is. While I'm not a psychologist, and this comes with the caveat that i'm an undergrad, whatever constitutes "Reactive Attachment Disorder" appears in both the ICD-10 and the DSM-5, so it probably constitutes a "legitimate" diagnosis, however if it's been diagnosed by someone not qualified to be diagnosing then yeah. Also re: Darcia Narvaez chat, it appears from my (brief) canvas of her research indicates she's very much into Kohlbergian-style moral development, of which, in my opinion, is more of a historical curiousity because of it's flawed conception and Western-centric focus. I'e placed a hold on the book she co-authored regarding Neo-Kohlbergianism, so I'll get that in the next day or so and write a trip report somewhere (probably in the psychology thread). I really can't comment on her research holistically because I'd have to read some of them so I'll totally do that when I can dredge enough care, but I can't really fault anything from looking at her purely academic work. e: Her work regarding morality saw an upswing around 2010, which is really weird. Personally I wasn't taught anything she wrote and I can't comment on whether her work is even widely accepted. Recoome fucked around with this message at 06:26 on Jan 26, 2015 |
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Jan 26, 2015 06:23
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Leo Showers posted:While I'm not a psychologist, and this comes with the caveat that i'm an undergrad, whatever constitutes "Reactive Attachment Disorder" appears in both the ICD-10 and the DSM-5, so it probably constitutes a "legitimate" diagnosis, however if it's been diagnosed by someone not qualified to be diagnosing then yeah. A considerable amount of the stuff in the DSM V isn't empirically supported to a very high standard- the document needs to be understood as the product of an ecology of lobbying that includes both clinicians and industry, whose motives align in adding to and expanding the scope of diagnoses, with relatively little resistance from within the academy. It's part of why senior team members involved with every edition have inevitably turned around and condemned the document almost immediately after its release. RAD has one of the worst reputations in terms of criterion and scope ambiguity in the whole thing, though it's not as harmful as other ill-defined disorders with an associated set of pharmaceutical solutions.
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Jan 26, 2015 06:56
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Discendo Vox posted:A considerable amount of the stuff in the DSM V isn't empirically supported to a very high standard- the document needs to be understood as the product of an ecology of lobbying that includes both clinicians and industry, whose motives align in adding to and expanding the scope of diagnoses, with relatively little resistance from within the academy. It's part of why senior team members involved with every edition have inevitably turned around and condemned the document almost immediately after its release. RAD has one of the worst reputations in terms of criterion and scope ambiguity in the whole thing, though it's not as harmful as other ill-defined disorders with an associated set of pharmaceutical solutions. Yeah look I almost omitted mentioning DSM 5 all together because of the very well documented issues with it. I was more referencing it's presence in the last two editions of both the DSM and ICD-10. Also there are methodological concerns regarding a diagnosis for RAD, I mean the DSM critique is valid but it's also a pretty lazy, as you can't really argue with what you are saying because, yes, there are some pretty blatant issues with DSM 5 in particular.
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Jan 26, 2015 07:27
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Leo Showers posted:Yeah look I almost omitted mentioning DSM 5 all together because of the very well documented issues with it. I was more referencing it's presence in the last two editions of both the DSM and ICD-10. I'm not trying to jump down your throat by any means, but that said, I gotta admit, I was talking DSM generally- Caplan, Spitzer, etc. I understand the documents are necessary, and the standard of proof can't be as high for the purposes of developing care standards for mental illness, given the empirical obstacles, but at the same time the field generally needs to develop better institutional barriers to abuse, and recognize that "in the DSM" and "a disorder that we have treatment and procedures for" aren't synonymous with "thing that actually exists".
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Jan 26, 2015 07:33
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