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Jack Gladney posted:Yeah, but there's gotta be enough sociopaths in the state's employ who get hard at the thought of taking a life. Surely there are cops and prison guards who would do it for free with batons or knives. In ye olden days if the execution is being botched the officer in charge would use a pistol to finish the job. I hope Thomas says it's cruel and unusual because the states' correction departments don't do that.
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Jan 24, 2015 06:15
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On that point, if it were me and I were given the choice firing squad sounds vastly more appealing than any pseudo-medical procedure.
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Jan 24, 2015 07:33
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Didn't we just have this discussion?
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Jan 24, 2015 09:41
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KernelSlanders posted:On that point, if it were me and I were given the choice firing squad sounds vastly more appealing than any pseudo-medical procedure. I've always thought this as well, at least because you can die in a way that spites your executioners as much as possible by looking them dead in the eye.
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Jan 24, 2015 15:30
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Deteriorata posted:Helium is quite common, actually. It's a byproduct of radioactive decay and tends to accumulate in the crust in natural gas deposits. Issues with helium are economic, primarily. I imagine it's not hard to make either (since all you really need is hydrogen and we have a ton of that in water).
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Jan 24, 2015 15:31
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Raenir Salazar posted:I've always thought this as well, at least because you can die in a way that spites your executioners as much as possible by looking them dead in the eye. Nah they put a bag over your head specifically to prevent this. Also one of the rifles is loaded with blanks so the shooters can all believe they weren't the ones who actually killed you. Wouldn't want them to feel bad after all.
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Jan 24, 2015 18:08
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computer parts posted:I imagine it's not hard to make either (since all you really need is hydrogen and we have a ton of that in water). There's some serious Poe's law in my reading of this post.
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Jan 24, 2015 19:18
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computer parts posted:I imagine it's not hard to make either (since all you really need is hydrogen and we have a ton of that in water). Uh, no? How many fusion reactors do we have that produce helium in big quantities?
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Jan 24, 2015 22:36
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Torrannor posted:Uh, no? How many fusion reactors do we have that produce helium in big quantities? This is a dumb derail since filling the room with nitrogen would work just as well, be just as painless and is plentiful. Once again, this makes it not punishment enough for some people.
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Jan 24, 2015 22:48
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Yeah, it frustrates me to no end that we have to walk some stupid line where execution doesn't damage the participants and yet is guaranteed NOT to be quick and painless for the condemned. For God's sake, give them 50 mg of Dilaudud, 50 mg of Ativan, and wait for painless, anxiety-free apnea and subsequent cardiac arrest. Maybe we should just add a dose of succinylcholine and tell our blood-thirsty viewers that the depolarizing twitches 45 seconds in are the soul undergoing its final judgment. Or we can STOP KILLING PEOPLE. A man in North Carolina was just exonerated after FOUR DECADES in prison. Surely there's some point where a reasonable person can come to no other conclusion that it's better to eliminate the death penalty altogether because we suck too much at determining guilt? Maybe the death penalty should be opt-in for prisoners in for life who undergo comprehensive psychiatric evaluation and counseling regarding it.
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Jan 25, 2015 12:42
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tetrapyloctomy posted:Yeah, it frustrates me to no end that we have to walk some stupid line where execution doesn't damage the participants and yet is guaranteed NOT to be quick and painless for the condemned. Is this actually a thing? Not from a social perspective, but in terms of statute.
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Jan 25, 2015 15:09
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computer parts posted:I imagine it's not hard to make either (since all you really need is hydrogen and we have a ton of that in water). It's almost impossible to manufacture and is generally considered a non-renewable resource.
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Jan 25, 2015 15:44
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Think of all the carpenters who will get good jobs building gallows once they find the chemical cocktail unconstitutional. That's job creation folks.
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Jan 25, 2015 16:15
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tetrapyloctomy posted:Yeah, it frustrates me to no end that we have to walk some stupid line where execution doesn't damage the participants and yet is guaranteed NOT to be quick and painless for the condemned. Seriously. Just tell some random Goon to devise a code to lock a door at a specific time and turn off the ventilation. Tell them its for a medical quarantine cell if they ask whats it is for- technically correct. Have another random goon code in a machine to add in nitrogen. Give the guy in the cell a TV or book and some nervousness meds if he wants; hell, don't even tell him anything other than 'some time this month' and have him pre-record the 'final' statement. He doesn't freak out, there is no pain and the goon coders are completely oblivious that they killed a guy. vv More moral than killing them via medical torture. Slaan fucked around with this message at 16:48 on Jan 25, 2015 |
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Jan 25, 2015 16:40
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Tricking people into killing other people: a moral solution!
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Jan 25, 2015 16:45
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How about the old GDR method of bringing the convicted to an empy room and unexpectedly shooting him in the back of the head while he wonders why he has been brought to an empty room?
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Jan 25, 2015 16:50
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Only if a one-liner is required to be said by the guard afterwards. 
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Jan 25, 2015 16:53
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captainblastum posted:Tricking people into killing other people: a moral solution! They're just a couple goons man, relax.
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Jan 25, 2015 17:07
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Slaan posted:
I'd disagree. Executions are completely immoral and indefensible, and tricking a person into executing someone adds another level of wrong to it. All of these goofy things like leaving a bullet out of one gun in the firing squad are because we know that killing someone is wrong - the correct solution to avoid committing that wrong is to stop killing people, not figure out some hosed up Rube-Goldbergian death scenario.
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Jan 25, 2015 17:13
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tetrapyloctomy posted:Yeah, it frustrates me to no end that we have to walk some stupid line where execution doesn't damage the participants and yet is guaranteed NOT to be quick and painless for the condemned. For God's sake, give them 50 mg of Dilaudud, 50 mg of Ativan, and wait for painless, anxiety-free apnea and subsequent cardiac arrest. Maybe we should just add a dose of succinylcholine and tell our blood-thirsty viewers that the depolarizing twitches 45 seconds in are the soul undergoing its final judgment. Once again, the problem that death penalty states are facing now is not that they don't k now what drugs will work it's that no reputable drug manufacturer will supply them with murder drugs.
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Jan 25, 2015 17:17
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Bring back the guillotine and keep it well oiled
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Jan 25, 2015 19:48
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Chuu posted:Is this actually a thing? Not from a social perspective, but in terms of statute. Stultus Maximus posted:Once again, the problem that death penalty states are facing now is not that they don't k now what drugs will work it's that no reputable drug manufacturer will supply them with murder drugs. But I'd rather we stop killing people.
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Jan 25, 2015 19:50
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captainblastum posted:I'd disagree. Executions are completely immoral and indefensible, and tricking a person into executing someone adds another level of wrong to it. All of these goofy things like leaving a bullet out of one gun in the firing squad are because we know that killing someone is wrong - the correct solution to avoid committing that wrong is to stop killing people, not figure out some hosed up Rube-Goldbergian death scenario. I agree with you, guy. I was just making an example of a more humane method of killing people if we have to have it, to point out that the entire point really is just torture porn for the victims and blood thirsty conservatives. I would greatly prefer if executions stopped entirely.
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Jan 25, 2015 19:53
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Trabisnikof posted:This is a dumb derail since filling the room with nitrogen would work just as well, be just as painless and is plentiful. Once again, this makes it not punishment enough for some people. Trouble with nitrogen is refitting a room so that it doesn't leak and cause problems elsewhere in the prison. You might as well just give an absolutely skyhigh dose of morphine/heroin.
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Jan 26, 2015 00:39
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I think it's a good thing that drug companies have basically been like " Please don't use our drugs to kill people" and I hope it continues.
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Jan 26, 2015 00:42
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captainblastum posted:I'd disagree. Executions are completely immoral and indefensible, and tricking a person into executing someone adds another level of wrong to it. All of these goofy things like leaving a bullet out of one gun in the firing squad are because we know that killing someone is wrong - the correct solution to avoid committing that wrong is to stop killing people, not figure out some hosed up Rube-Goldbergian death scenario. No you build a Schrödinger's cat box. Put them in the room with the nitrogen-trigger to be released if a detector senses the decay of a small sample of cesium-137. It's in quantum physics' hands now! "The court finds you guilty and sentences you to a superposition of living and death. The sentence will be carried out within the time described by the following probability density function:"
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Jan 26, 2015 00:44
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Party Plane Jones posted:Trouble with nitrogen is refitting a room so that it doesn't leak and cause problems elsewhere in the prison. You might as well just give an absolutely skyhigh dose of morphine/heroin. How is that more of a concern than when we used to gas people with horrible gas instead of painless gas? Just vent to some smokestacks. Drugs always run into the manufacturer problem. But the real issue is we don't want painless.
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Jan 26, 2015 00:47
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What's the reading on the Obamacare case? Does it look doomed or not? 
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Jan 28, 2015 04:09
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Party Plane Jones posted:Trouble with nitrogen is refitting a room so that it doesn't leak and cause problems elsewhere in the prison. You might as well just give an absolutely skyhigh dose of morphine/heroin. And the sensation of suffocation isn't caused by lack of oxygen but by buildup of carbon dioxide. So people suffering hypoxia who are still able to exhale don't feel anything wrong. Even when their brain is shutting down, they don't notice it's shutting down because that kind of self-awareness is one of the first things to go. Of course we shouldn't be killing people anyway, but it's not the chemistry that's the problem.
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Jan 28, 2015 04:56
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Slaan posted:I agree with you, guy. I was just making an example of a more humane method of killing people if we have to have it, to point out that the entire point really is just torture porn for the victims and blood thirsty conservatives. I would greatly prefer if executions stopped entirely. The whole ritual around attendance and viewing is ridiculous. They impose tons of arbitrary rules to separate the viewers from the condemned like putting them in another room and having them watch a video camera that is focussed only on the face and that has a curtain in front of it to restrict the range of the dying process visible. Yet everyone's there to watch the guy die. Why not have them there in the room and have them jeer over the guy's last words and stick knives into him or whatever? That's the impulse being satisfied, no matter who's in denial about what. It's like if they just impose enough crazy restrictions it will seem like a civilized thing, or like anything other than the state killing someone. As far as I know, there's no legal basis for any of the dumb controls they put on execution viewing.
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Jan 28, 2015 06:08
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Sister Prejean, outside of pockets of Jesuits, is the one well known non-hypocritical Catholic in the US. I like comparing her writing to Scalia for kicks.
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Jan 28, 2015 06:42
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With all the requests for stays on executions that have been denied by SCOTUS in the past month or so, Sotomayor is the only Justice who has consistently been in the dissent if a dissent exists. (I've been keeping an eye out for the dissent lineups on these requests for stays, so I don't think I'm mistaken.) In my opinion, this points to Sotomayor being the biggest anti-death penalty advocate on the Court, even though it's unclear to what extent.
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Jan 28, 2015 13:30
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There's a stay on the executions now. 
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Jan 29, 2015 01:37
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yeah, nitrogen would be the safe and economical for executions, and totally painless for the person being executed (in fact, i hear that a feeling of euphoria is common right before consciousness is lost) of course, execution is actually about inducing pain and fear into the prisoner while pretending to be humane, so a complex cocktail of chemicals is used instead
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Jan 29, 2015 05:23
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I assume that's the reason people keep accidentally killing themselves by autoerotic asphyxiation or inhaling the gas from duster cans. The US penal system: less competent than the guy found hanging with his pants around his ankles and his hand rigour mortised to his dick.
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Jan 29, 2015 09:03
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Adenoid Dan posted:I assume that's the reason people keep accidentally killing themselves by autoerotic asphyxiation or inhaling the gas from duster cans. those guys died doing what they loved
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Jan 29, 2015 09:07
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Condiv posted:yeah, nitrogen would be the safe and economical for executions, and totally painless for the person being executed (in fact, i hear that a feeling of euphoria is common right before consciousness is lost) A complex cocktail of chemicals is used because doctors won't participate, and someone who seemed qualified proposed the three-drug process a while back and some state went with it and got it through the inevitable appeals. States don't like to experiment with execution processes because a new one will result in a number of appeals and the possibility of spending a lot of money on them while the old ones work "fine". It is true that the state is more interested in minimizing the visible suffering than the actual suffering but that's very different from being "actually about inducing pain and fear into the prisoner". That argument is stupid anyway as the weeks leading up to the execution date and everything involved are going to terrify the prisoner because they know they're going to die soon. It's not like the drug regimen really matters there. If a state successfully set up nitrogen executions and managed to get them through appeals, then you might see a movement towards those. But you can see all the appeals that result from even any change in the drugs used - they're not going to want to spend the money pioneering an entirely new form of execution, especially as any ethical doctor would absolutely refuse to testify on the state's behalf that it was humane. edit: not to mention that the term "gas chamber" conjures up some images states don't want their executions associated with ever since WWII.
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Jan 29, 2015 15:11
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evilweasel posted:edit: not to mention that the term "gas chamber" conjures up some images states don't want their executions associated with ever since WWII. 4 states still use the Gas Chamber last time I checked.
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Jan 29, 2015 15:43
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amanasleep posted:4 states still use the Gas Chamber last time I checked. But the last execution was what 20 years ago?
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Jan 29, 2015 15:44
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hobbesmaster posted:But the last execution was what 20 years ago? Yes, but plenty of Gas executions since WW2 is the point.
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Jan 29, 2015 15:47
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