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Looks like I missed Canadians in Costco chat, my favorite topic. During my time at WWU, I felt like my costco membership was worthless since it was a pain to get in and out of there. I'm glad to see they're building a new one right off the highway. I think Bellingham remains my favorite city in this state. If I could find a job that pays what I make now there, I would seriously consider staying there. Such a cool downtown and not the packed overpriced hell that Seattle is.
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# ? Jan 26, 2015 00:38 |
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# ? Jun 7, 2024 14:26 |
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Accretionist posted:You'd think Conservatives would want a database of names and addresses. But why should I have to pay for it!
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# ? Jan 26, 2015 00:46 |
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computer parts posted:If you include Latinos it is economically and violently.
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# ? Jan 26, 2015 00:55 |
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anthonypants posted:One of the great things about that Gizmodo article was that it opened a lot of eyes, but then people of color have been trying to get people to understand Oregon's racist history for a loooooooooong time and it gets brushed off every time. It gets brushed off because the whole "Oregon / The NW is Secretly Racist" shtick is built upon conflation and an extremely narrow historical perspective. It's Headline History, which is great for Gizmodo click-bait but falls apart pretty quickly when you actually start looking at the history. Sure Oregon passed some problematic laws in its first founding year or two, but they were generally based in the progressive politics of the period, and Oregonians quickly realized that they were crap and as a result they were never enforced and most of them were undone within months. Sure the KKK was popular here in Oregon, but as a fraternal organization that was completely differently-minded than those down South - indeed when racist firebrands took control of the organization and tried to promote bigotry in the Oregon KKK, membership tanked. I mean, have the conversation by all means, but trying to paint Oregon as being some kind of bastion of racism requires a pretty uncritical view of sources.
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# ? Jan 26, 2015 01:07 |
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Kaal posted:Sure the KKK was popular here in Oregon, but
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# ? Jan 26, 2015 01:09 |
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The kinder, gentler KKK.
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# ? Jan 26, 2015 01:09 |
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Headline History strikes again. Why bother learning when you already know what the answer should be? I mean everyone knows that Oregonians are Democrats - i.e. the party of slavery and white supremacy.
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# ? Jan 26, 2015 01:11 |
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Kaal posted:It gets brushed off because the whole "Oregon / The NW is Secretly Racist" shtick is built upon conflation and an extremely narrow historical perspective. It's Headline History, which is great for Gizmodo click-bait but falls apart pretty quickly when you actually start looking at the history. Sure Oregon passed some problematic laws in its first founding year or two, but they were generally based in the progressive politics of the period, and Oregonians quickly realized that they were crap and as a result they were never enforced and most of them were undone within months. Sure the KKK was popular here in Oregon, but as a fraternal organization that was completely differently-minded than those down South - indeed when racist firebrands took control of the organization and tried to promote bigotry in the Oregon KKK, membership tanked. I mean, have the conversation by all means, but trying to paint Oregon as being some kind of bastion of racism requires a pretty uncritical view of sources. So that explains the early years of statehood, what about all the poo poo in the years from then to now? The Northwest may not have idiots burning crosses on lawns, but we've most definitely got a fuckton of racism in the area both historically and contemporarily.
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# ? Jan 26, 2015 01:15 |
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Reverse Centaur posted:Most Vancouverites don't know/think about why we have so many Asians but almost no Japanese. It's because we stole everything they owned and forbid them from living west of the Rockies after we let them out of concentration camps in the 40s. Canada did that too? Woah. Accretionist posted:You'd think Conservatives would want a database of names and addresses. BIG GOVERNMENT! got any sevens fucked around with this message at 01:18 on Jan 26, 2015 |
# ? Jan 26, 2015 01:16 |
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effectual posted:Canada did that too? Woah. Yep.
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# ? Jan 26, 2015 01:19 |
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Error 404 posted:So that explains the early years of statehood, what about all the poo poo in the years from then to now? There is but a lot of it geographical (you can argue county by county) and there are wide social and political differences in the state and the state did change a lot between the 1930s and now. Also Washington state has a lot of the same issues and as a whole is probably a bit more politically conservative than Oregon, especially on economic issues. If anything Portland is a weird town because it changed so dramatically after the 1960s, and especially after the 1990s. It was always a working class town and a hardbitten one at that, Portland dramatically changed though in a few decades. If anything Portlandia pretty much completely ignores the fact that before food carts this was a very different city. That said, I think the city did in fact change socially even if many of the same issues of race still exist as in every major American city. Ardennes fucked around with this message at 01:24 on Jan 26, 2015 |
# ? Jan 26, 2015 01:19 |
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The WWeek (or maybe the Mercury, I forget) had a pretty good article on segregation in Portland. Like, explicit segregation, not the soft "let's all agree not to sell to blacks" of the Midwest.
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# ? Jan 26, 2015 01:20 |
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Ardennes posted:Also Washington State has a lot of the same issues and as a whole is probably a bit more politically conservative than Oregon, especially on economic issues. I agree, which is why I referred to the Northwest, and not just Oregon there. And tbh Portland, Seattle, and (insert liberal paradise) are very much the exception and not the rule here. There's no real difference between people in bumblefuck washington or bumblefuck oregon, or anywhere idaho really.
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# ? Jan 26, 2015 01:23 |
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Kaal posted:It gets brushed off because the whole "Oregon / The NW is Secretly Racist" shtick is built upon conflation and an extremely narrow historical perspective. It's Headline History, which is great for Gizmodo click-bait but falls apart pretty quickly when you actually start looking at the history. Sure Oregon passed some problematic laws in its first founding year or two, but they were generally based in the progressive politics of the period, and Oregonians quickly realized that they were crap and as a result they were never enforced and most of them were undone within months. Sure the KKK was popular here in Oregon, but as a fraternal organization that was completely differently-minded than those down South - indeed when racist firebrands took control of the organization and tried to promote bigotry in the Oregon KKK, membership tanked. I mean, have the conversation by all means, but trying to paint Oregon as being some kind of bastion of racism requires a pretty uncritical view of sources.
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# ? Jan 26, 2015 01:25 |
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Error 404 posted:So that explains the early years of statehood, what about all the poo poo in the years from then to now? Yeah, the wealth Innis Arden neighborhood in Shoreline still has the (unenforceable) racial restrictions in their housing covenants (as of 2005, but I didn't see any newer stories that they had been repealed): Homeowners find records still hold blot of racism quote:Racial restrictions, validated by the U.S. Supreme Court in 1926, then ruled unenforceable by the same court 22 years later, are linked to the original deeds of the 500-plus homes, north of Seattle in Shoreline. I wonder what horrible obscure historical figure included that embarrassing clause? quote:Written into the neighborhood's bylaws by Boeing founder Bill Boeing, the 60-year-old restrictions prohibited the sale or lease of the homes to anyone who wasn't white. Blacks and Asians, the restrictions said, could occupy the homes only as domestic servants. At least the neighborhood considers updating their covenants to be a top priority? quote:The neighborhood needs notarized signatures from two-thirds of the households in the development 360 in all before it can file amended documents with King County to replace the old ones. This isn't surprising, I grew up near Innis Arden and those rich folk will sue each other for YEARS about tree removal or anything that might block their view.
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# ? Jan 26, 2015 01:27 |
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When/how did Portland get its modern reputation, anyway?
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# ? Jan 26, 2015 01:28 |
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Error 404 posted:I agree, which is why I referred to the Northwest, and not just Oregon there. And tbh Portland, Seattle, and (insert liberal paradise) are very much the exception and not the rule here. As far as population goes, the cities dominate the PNW but yes as far as geography, most of Oregon and Washington are more like West Virginia than they are Seattle/Portland. That said, big parts of Oregon and Washington are economically depressed once logging declined and if anything it has heightened much of the rhetoric. When people talk about "Canadians being rude" I wonder how much of it is just a cultural clash between recent immigrants from Asia and white NWers. Is it a race/culture issue or a nationality issue?
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# ? Jan 26, 2015 01:29 |
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Ditocoaf posted:When/how did Portland get its modern reputation, anyway? I think it was a result of an aggressive marketing campaign about 10 years or so designed to entice wealthy young people to come retire to Portland.
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# ? Jan 26, 2015 01:32 |
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sullat posted:I think it was a result of an aggressive marketing campaign about 10 years or so designed to entice wealthy young people to come retire to Portland. The dream of the 90s is alive in Portland.
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# ? Jan 26, 2015 01:33 |
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I guess I've never run into the rude Canadians stereotype. I love Vancouver, BC and try to visit as often as possible, it's a great city. Also, noted progressive bastion Corvallis has a large park and elementary school still named after Joseph Avery. Avery had ties to the KKK and ran a pretty heavily racist newspaper in Corvallis, The Occidental Messenger. The Messenger later became the Corvallis Gazette Times which is the city's largest periodical.
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# ? Jan 26, 2015 01:33 |
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Schwack posted:I guess I've never run into the rude Canadians stereotype. I love Vancouver, BC and try to visit as often as possible, it's a great city. Oh, I wondered who that was named after. As a kid though I just remembered going to the train.
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# ? Jan 26, 2015 01:39 |
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Kaal posted:It gets brushed off because the whole "Oregon / The NW is Secretly Racist" shtick is built upon conflation and an extremely narrow historical perspective. It's Headline History, which is great for Gizmodo click-bait but falls apart pretty quickly when you actually start looking at the history. Sure Oregon passed some problematic laws in its first founding year or two, but they were generally based in the progressive politics of the period, and Oregonians quickly realized that they were crap and as a result they were never enforced and most of them were undone within months. Sure the KKK was popular here in Oregon, but as a fraternal organization that was completely differently-minded than those down South - indeed when racist firebrands took control of the organization and tried to promote bigotry in the Oregon KKK, membership tanked. I mean, have the conversation by all means, but trying to paint Oregon as being some kind of bastion of racism requires a pretty uncritical view of sources. Even trying to narrow it down to specific events is problematic. Was Danzig or War right or wrong? Was the Holocaust right or wrong? It clearly has elements of both. Trying to cast super broad concepts in yes/ no terms is argumentative reductionism. realpost: Walidah Imarisha, who does the Oregon Black history presentations is super talented and awesome and I can't stop singing her praises. She's also a huge scifi nerd/blogger/event organizer.
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# ? Jan 26, 2015 01:40 |
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Lazy_Liberal posted:Even trying to narrow it down to specific events is problematic. Maybe the answer is...somewhere in the middle?
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# ? Jan 26, 2015 01:41 |
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My friends who still live in Bellingham hate em, especially the ones who work retail. I think it's just the mindset of those people who spend a few hours driving to another fuckin country to save money on milk, gas and electronics probably aren't here to have a nice weekend getaway.
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# ? Jan 26, 2015 01:43 |
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If I could swing opening a business, I'd open a milk, cigarettes and lunch shop up in Blaine. poo poo, I wonder if you could do a 'Food Truck' model and just sell milk off the back of a truck.
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# ? Jan 26, 2015 01:51 |
It's not a few hours, if you live in the southern suburbs and have a Nexus pass, Bellingham is like 30 minutes away. My brother is a west coast border guard - wish I could tell some stories but I am sworn to secrecy.
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# ? Jan 26, 2015 01:52 |
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Stop it, stop thinking of ways to give our milk to the Canadians.
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# ? Jan 26, 2015 02:07 |
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All them illegals crossin the border and stealin are milk!
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# ? Jan 26, 2015 02:12 |
Error 404 posted:All them illegals crossin the border and stealin are milk! Heh they practically roll out the red carpet for us non scrub level foreigners. This is I-5 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ayYndWo_Joo
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# ? Jan 26, 2015 02:22 |
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Error 404 posted:All them illegals crossin the border and stealin are milk! Yeah well you try drinking moose-milk for a week and let us know how it goes. I bet you'll be crying for good ole AMERICA cow juice soon enough
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# ? Jan 26, 2015 02:22 |
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Ditocoaf posted:When/how did Portland get its modern reputation, anyway? For the US, Portland is very much on the liberal side of the spectrum. It is still America though.
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# ? Jan 26, 2015 02:32 |
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seiferguy posted:the packed overpriced hell that Seattle is. Hahaha this reminds me of when I got back from traveling around India (an actually packed part of the world) and my uncle, who had never left the united states, started talking about overpopulation and unsustainable crowding in Seattle. Seattle, which is a very sparsely populated fishing village with a lower density than Los Angeles and worse traffic. The 1800's frontier mentality is still quite prevalent even in the urban areas of the PNW.
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# ? Jan 26, 2015 03:21 |
reading posted:Hahaha this reminds me of when I got back from traveling around India (an actually packed part of the world) and my uncle, who had never left the united states, started talking about overpopulation and unsustainable crowding in Seattle. Seattle, which is a very sparsely populated fishing village with a lower density than Los Angeles and worse traffic. My aunt, who lives near Ganges in the Puget Sound/Georgia Strait, once said in astonishment that my area of suburban Vancouver was "like Manhattan"
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# ? Jan 26, 2015 03:32 |
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reading posted:Hahaha this reminds me of when I got back from traveling around India (an actually packed part of the world) and my uncle, who had never left the united states, started talking about overpopulation and unsustainable crowding in Seattle. Seattle, which is a very sparsely populated fishing village with a lower density than Los Angeles and worse traffic. To be fair, downtown Seattle is an overpriced hell.
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# ? Jan 26, 2015 03:56 |
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As a Bellingham transplant working at a gas station near an I 5 exit, I have more problems with locals than I do with Canadians. Mostly what I get from Canucks is if I know how to get to Trader Joe's.
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# ? Jan 26, 2015 04:20 |
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Error 404 posted:So that explains the early years of statehood, what about all the poo poo in the years from then to now? The Northwest may not have idiots burning crosses on lawns, but we've most definitely got a fuckton of racism in the area both historically and contemporarily. Like what, in particular? Are we going to say that Oregon is racist because there are skinheads and trucks with Confederate flags in Oregon? There are skinheads and Confederate sympathizers in every state. Are we going to say that Oregon is racist because there was racial segregation? Because it wasn't any worse than any other state, and better than many if not most. I mean if it's just oppression Olympics they're after, then great, but otherwise it's pretty difficult to take seriously when you look at how race has been historically treated elsewhere in the country. I think that a lot of this line of discussion comes down to the extremely problematic perspective that equates racial diversity with "black people"; something that is a real disservice both to the many immigrants - particularly Latino- and Asian-Americans - who have migrated here over the last 200 years, as well as black culture specifically and advocates of racial equality more generally. Lazy Liberal: Gizmodo Click Bait Kaal fucked around with this message at 09:10 on Jan 26, 2015 |
# ? Jan 26, 2015 08:41 |
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Kaal posted:Like what, in particular? Are we going to say that Oregon is racist because there are skinheads and trucks with Confederate flags in Oregon? There are skinheads and Confederate sympathizers in every state. Are we going to say that Oregon is racist because there was racial segregation? Because it wasn't any worse than any other state, and better than many if not most. I think this is what most people would have a problem with. The common message taught in Oregon public schools is that the state joined the Union as a free state and was anti-slavery all the way. The reality doesn't match up with that image at all. Oregon was better than some, but I'm not sure being only slightly less awful is a major achievement. What I try to get kids to take away from this stuff is that Oregon is not some insulated pocket of the country where everything has gone great from the 1850s onward. Oregon has an ugly history that closely mirrors the rest of the country, Oregonians just have the unfortunate tendency of attempting to sweep that history under the rug.
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# ? Jan 26, 2015 09:08 |
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Schwack posted:I think this is what most people would have a problem with. The common message taught in Oregon public schools is that the state joined the Union as a free state and was anti-slavery all the way. The reality doesn't match up with that image at all. Oregon was better than some, but I'm not sure being only slightly less awful is a major achievement. What I try to get kids to take away from this stuff is that Oregon is not some insulated pocket of the country where everything has gone great from the 1850s onward. Oregon has an ugly history that closely mirrors the rest of the country, Oregonians just have the unfortunate tendency of attempting to sweep that history under the rug. Well if it's oppression Olympics then Americans don't even get onto the podium when it comes to Black slavery, so I don't know what to tell you. If the only "ugly history" that one can come up with is that Oregon didn't miraculously jump from the Missouri Compromise to 21st Century radical racial theory, then yeah, mea culpa. Also, I don't know where people are getting the idea that Oregon schools don't talk about Oregon's racial history. Because certainly the ban on black people and the debate over extending the Missouri Compromise to Oregon got talked about in both my 8th Grade US history course and then later in my 12th Grade social history course. If anything, they're far too pat in their easy declarations of how bad the Oregonians were, with the same implication that moderns are therefore far more intellectually and morally superior. When you start looking at how these votes actually happened, and how they were implemented, that narrative kind of falls apart. Frankly I think that modern Americans simply have such difficulty accepting any kind of contemporary faults in their own culture that we end up trawling the past to find someone else to blame for our modern problems. Kaal fucked around with this message at 09:29 on Jan 26, 2015 |
# ? Jan 26, 2015 09:15 |
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Kaal posted:Like what, in particular? Are we going to say that Oregon is racist because there are skinheads and trucks with Confederate flags in Oregon? There are skinheads and Confederate sympathizers in every state. Kaal posted:Frankly I think that modern Americans simply have such difficulty accepting any kind of contemporary faults in their own culture that we end up trawling the past to find someone else to blame for our modern problems. Is the experience of reading this what having an aneurysm feels like Nevermind, I've never known anyone who uses the phrase "oppression Olympics" to be arguing in good faith mortisXL fucked around with this message at 09:48 on Jan 26, 2015 |
# ? Jan 26, 2015 09:45 |
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# ? Jun 7, 2024 14:26 |
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Kaal posted:Well if it's oppression Olympics then Americans don't even get onto the podium when it comes to Black slavery, so I don't know what to tell you. If the only "ugly history" that one can come up with is that Oregon didn't miraculously jump from the Missouri Compromise to 21st Century radical racial theory, then yeah, mea culpa. Also, I don't know where people are getting the idea that Oregon schools don't talk about Oregon's racial history. Because certainly the ban on black people and the debate over extending the Missouri Compromise to Oregon got talked about in both my 8th Grade US history course and then later in my 12th Grade social history course. If anything, they're far too pat in their easy declarations of how bad the Oregonians were, with the same implication that moderns are therefore far more intellectually and morally superior. When you start looking at how these votes actually happened, and how they were implemented, that narrative kind of falls apart. Frankly I think that modern Americans simply have such difficulty accepting any kind of contemporary faults in their own culture that we end up trawling the past to find someone else to blame for our modern problems. I keep trying to read this paragraph but my eyes keep rolling off of it like I was a main character in one of noted racist author H.P. Lovecraft's short stories looking at something so scary that it was just really hard to describe like no you don't understand.
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# ? Jan 26, 2015 10:00 |