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HEY GAL posted:They're pretty comfortable. You make fabric noises when you walk though. Does it sound intimidating when an entire regiment is swooshing at you in unison as they march?
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Jan 26, 2015 02:20
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Ensign Expendable posted:Does it sound intimidating when an entire regiment is swooshing at you in unison as they march?
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Jan 26, 2015 02:23
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Ensign Expendable posted:That doesn't look like it would impede walking much, unless you're in a forest or something.
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Jan 26, 2015 02:25
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Yes, it's like a lava lamp.
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Slavvy posted:Ok, so what sort of casualty ratio was considered 'normal' for a successful phase of the offensive? Cause with such well prepared positions, fortified dugouts and endless lines of trenches to fall back into I can't imagine the germans taking too many casualties. It's hard to imagine, but they did. For example, at the Somme. quote:The British and French had advanced about 6 miles (9.7 km) on the Somme, on a front of 16 miles (26 km) at a cost of 419,654 British and 202,567 French casualties, against 465,181 German casualties. If you just count deaths, the Germans actually were worse off. Similarly at Passchendaele, Verdun, etc. I'm not sure why this was the case. One explanation could be that we tend to forget the role of the artillery. While the initial bombardment at e.g. the Somme failed because the Germans just waited it out, the guns didn't just stop shooting then. In particular allied artillery struck into the rear areas of the German fortifications, slaughtering Germans as they came up to reinforce, or were pulled back to rest.
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Jan 26, 2015 02:37
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HEY GAL posted:No, the opposite Do you speak from experience?
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Jan 26, 2015 03:00
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Animal posted:Do you speak from experience?
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Jan 26, 2015 03:05
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By the way, how apt is the wiki description of Iran-Iraq war as WWI MidEast boogaloo? Though it did hawe it's own "fun times", like swamp electrocutions. 
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Jan 26, 2015 03:09
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Fangz posted:It's hard to imagine, but they did. For example, at the Somme. I still find it staggering that there would have been that many dudes jammed into one desolate moonscape like that. Granted it took place over five months, but it's still just utterly unimaginable to me. Truly our world is a better place. JcDent posted:swamp electrocutions. Go on...
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Jan 26, 2015 03:11
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_the_Marshes#Operation_Kheibar I have no idea how effective it would be. Sounds like an act of desperation.
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Jan 26, 2015 03:16
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Animal posted:How was he ideologically? That will determine how sad (or happy) I will feel. Been a while since I've read the book, but it reads more like a kid/young man experiencing military life, with very little ideology, except maybe towards the end he starts sounding a bit embittered about things. He reads less like a Nazi, and more like a young kid who got swept up in the swell of nationalistic pride around the time he was 18, and decided to join the army. His father and uncle were both veterans of WWI (though both were in the medical corps, and his father was actually quite against him going into the Panzerkorps). He shows disdain for the "zeal" of the SS, and a bit of jealousy that they stole the totemkompf from the Panzerkorps (to the point later in the book of him having to convince someone that he wasn't in fact SS, but a tanker, and that "We had it first.") Towards the end, I think he was one of those Germans who bought into the rumors of the Americans and British basically taking over the German military, and joining forces to defeat "The True Enemy: Russia," but those were more or less quelled by his experiences as a POW. So, basically, nice guy, just fighting for the wrong people.
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Jan 26, 2015 03:37
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Effectronica posted:He denied the existence of comfort women on multiple occasions. In his book or afterwards? I don't remember it mentioned in the former.
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Jan 26, 2015 04:04
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YF19pilot posted:Been a while since I've read the book, but it reads more like a kid/young man experiencing military life, with very little ideology, except maybe towards the end he starts sounding a bit embittered about things. Sounds like Admiral Lütjens, really.
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Jan 26, 2015 12:36
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Fury aside, were the Panzerkorps ever billeted or placed in a position where they could commit the Eastern front war crimes that the rest of the Wehrmacht were infamous for?
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Jan 26, 2015 12:40
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Phobophilia posted:Fury aside, were the Panzerkorps ever billeted or placed in a position where they could commit the Eastern front war crimes that the rest of the Wehrmacht were infamous for? You'd think they'd be too busy shuffling from place to place fending off Russian tank armies to ever be used even on partisans, though the Warsaw Uprising might've seen some?
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Jan 26, 2015 15:07
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Phobophilia posted:Fury aside, were the Panzerkorps ever billeted or placed in a position where they could commit the Eastern front war crimes that the rest of the Wehrmacht were infamous for? Tanks were used pretty extensively for anti-Partisan and anti-Resistance operations. They were mostly captured Allied tanks or obsolete German ones, but they were pretty useful for curbstomping light guerrillas who didn't have any AT weapons.
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Jan 26, 2015 15:15
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Phobophilia posted:Fury aside, were the Panzerkorps ever billeted or placed in a position where they could commit the Eastern front war crimes that the rest of the Wehrmacht were infamous for? Not the same degree, obviously, but you could always encourage some local villagers to volunteer to help your tank out of the mud. Plus even tank crews get bored, and knocking around the local population is a decent enough method of entertainment.
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Jan 26, 2015 16:01
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They wore black uniforms with skulls and crossbones so they might as well have had some fun since in all likelihood they'd be shot as SS men when caught.
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Jan 26, 2015 16:16
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Trin Tragula posted:Some of them ended like that, but the only example I've come across of a major attack where the first wave of blokes were literally mowed down in ranks as they went over the top was the Battle of the Nek on Gallipoli, which is a completely different kettle of fish. Is that this one? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7eeijbtbnjQ I'm looking forward to when you get to Gallipoli; your posts have been fascinating and I'm amazed you've kept going for so long.
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Jan 26, 2015 16:24
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Today marks 100 years since German foreign ministry agreed to provide military training to 200 Finnish independence activists in Lockstedt, Holstein, the beginnings of the Finnish Jäger Movement. The first activists went without a hitch through normal procedure via neutral Sweden, but in autumn 1915 when the group was increased to 2000 the Tsar's police finally caught up and young men had to be smuggled abroad via a secret network. After completing their training the men were formed into Königlich Preussisches Jägerbataillon 27 which fought in the Latvian front until the revolution.
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Jan 26, 2015 17:02
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Question: how important in reality has the concept of Auftragstaktik and its relations been in actual warfare since its inception? More romance than reality, or visa versa?
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Jan 26, 2015 17:51
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YF19pilot posted:Towards the end, I think he was one of those Germans who bought into the rumors of the Americans and British basically taking over the German military, and joining forces to defeat "The True Enemy: Russia," but those were more or less quelled by his experiences as a POW. People always want to talk counterfactuals and alt history and get stuck on poo poo like "What if Germany Won?!" which seems like a pretty big loving stretch. But what if the western allies re-armed the Wehrmacht and took on the soviets would be a much more interesting alt history book to read. On one hand you have Russia with more tanks and soldiers than everyone else put together. On the other you have a nuclear armed US with the strategic bomber force capable of delivering them.
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Jan 26, 2015 18:30
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Rhymenoserous posted:People always want to talk counterfactuals and alt history and get stuck on poo poo like "What if Germany Won?!" which seems like a pretty big loving stretch. But what if the western allies re-armed the Wehrmacht and took on the soviets would be a much more interesting alt history book to read. I think the one thing you can be sure of is that it would have made WW2 up till that point look like Christmas.
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Jan 26, 2015 18:36
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Phobophilia posted:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_the_Marshes#Operation_Kheibar God drat, war is cruelty and you cannot refine it. quote:On 27 February, Iran finally captured Majnoon Island, but lost 49 of their own helicopters shot down by Iraqi jet fighters. Fighting took place in waters over 2 meters deep at times. Iraq in response to the attacks ran live electrical cables through the water, electrocuting numerous Iranian troops and then displaying their corpses on state television. On the other hand, I guess that is better than mud two meters deep, tovarisch.
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Jan 26, 2015 18:38
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Rhymenoserous posted:People always want to talk counterfactuals and alt history and get stuck on poo poo like "What if Germany Won?!" which seems like a pretty big loving stretch. But what if the western allies re-armed the Wehrmacht and took on the soviets would be a much more interesting alt history book to read. On the third, most important hand, you have four years of propaganda about "our Russian/Soviet allies" that has to be turned around, a precipitous decline in political will among the soldiery, the sheer insanity of arming the Wehrmacht after liberating the death camps, and, basically, Operation Unthinkable would probably have seen large parts of the American and British armies refuse to fight at all.
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Jan 26, 2015 18:55
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Effectronica posted:On the third, most important hand, you have four years of propaganda about "our Russian/Soviet allies" that has to be turned around, a precipitous decline in political will among the soldiery, the sheer insanity of arming the Wehrmacht after liberating the death camps, and, basically, Operation Unthinkable would probably have seen large parts of the American and British armies refuse to fight at all. That would be the gripping hand.
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Jan 26, 2015 19:06
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Effectronica posted:Operation Unthinkable would probably have seen large parts of the American and British armies refuse to fight at all. I find this position uncompelling, especially once the idea of an offensive operation was abandoned.
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Jan 26, 2015 19:19
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bewbies posted:I find this position uncompelling, especially once the idea of an offensive operation was abandoned. A defensive operation would have seen them fight, yes, but I seriously doubt that there's any practical situation in which the American and British armies are going to line up with the Wehrmacht and attack the USSR. I'm not thinking a widespread revolt of the enlisted, but rather the high commands attempting to maneuver their way out of going through with it, as the British command did historically with the proposals for Unthinkable.
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Jan 26, 2015 19:30
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100 Years Ago Today's title is The Leaning Virgin of Albert. The Chilembwe Uprising runs out of steam, there's a potentially serious strategic problem developing in Mesopotamia, more on life in Vauquois for the Germans (spoilers: not very nice), and the latest in a series of newspaper articles about the growing cost of living. They're solely concerned with food, but as war industries look to expand, there's also very pressing concerns over rent and wages (more to come soon). Koramei posted:Is that this one? Yeah, they're supposed to be at the Nek. It's got a similar attitude to strict accuracy as "And the Band Played Waltzing Matilda", but the changes are mostly defensible on the grounds that the film is about more than the details of one battle. (For instance, there may have been no heroic runner desperately trying to call off that third charge, but he stands for a campaign's worth of communications gone astray.) There's plenty to raise the blood pressure of rivet-counters, but sod them.
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Jan 26, 2015 19:31
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bewbies posted:I find this position uncompelling, especially once the idea of an offensive operation was abandoned. But then you're talking about a situation where the Soviets attack the Allies first, no? Otherwise it's 'hurrah, the end is finally in sight, after 6 years of misery we've finally got the Hun beaten, we'll be home for Christmas! Oh, wait, no, we're going to fight years and years against a guy who was our ally up until two seconds ago on the side of the people we've been demonising for all these years and wait it turns out they're actually worse than the propaganda made out'. War weariness is a real thing (see especially France, Germany and Russia in WW1). I could absolutely see enlisted men mutinying, especially given the Soviet propaganda that would immediately ensue about bloodthirsty capitalists trying to use the war to destroy benevolent Socialism etc. Defensive is another question, I guess, but the first draft of Operation Unthinkable was in fact a surprise attack by the western Allies on the Russians, not the other way round.
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Jan 26, 2015 20:20
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I could imagine a wave of political instability passing through the US if they attacked or provoked the USSR without an absurdly good reason. Even a defensive engagement might be considered suspiciously as there was still plenty of suspicion of Brits and Europeans in American politics. War weariness combined with the propaganda whiplash might set off movements to kick out anyone in the government connected to the new hostilities. Definitely the Dems would be hit hard for arming the new foe previously with lend-lease. I don't think soldiers would refuse to fight but the domestic political situation would be chaotic. I don't see either side achieving much so I presume hostilities wind down inconclusively. Rather than a mighty struggle more of a farce good for no one but I presume Stalin is so politically unassailable at this point it doesn't change much there. A brief hot war with the Soviets might keep isolationism a big force in US politics.
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Jan 26, 2015 20:23
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Theverybest, please keep on with translating Pilsudski! Either he and/or you have creative talent! Tukhachevski was a pretty "interesting" character too. I kind of wonder what would have happened if he had somehow been victorious over Stalin (Stalin iirc toyed with the idea of purging him in 1930, but figured he didnt have the power for it yet and went to purge on his political contenders first, had he tried to purge him before also getting rid of Zinoview etc. I think Tukhachevski could have turned the tables. When he actually got purged the outcome was imho predecided). I have also read completely opposing conceptions of what his theoretical plan for defending the USSR against Germany would have been, from pretty sensible (defend at the old USSRs borders, use Soviet Poland as a buffer) to not much better then Stalins.
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Jan 26, 2015 20:27
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Mightypeon posted:Theverybest, please keep on with translating Pilsudski! Really, Khalkin Gol redeemed deep battle within the Red Army, so the main issue would be whether he could bring about the radical transformation of the Soviet military in time for it to be able to effectively implement deep battle operations. I guess the biggest issue would be what having a competent commander in charge of the Winter War from the start do.
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Jan 26, 2015 20:38
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Finished Castles of Steel and enjoyed it quite a bit. I'm not familiar enough with serious military history scholarship to critique it, but I recommend it to anyone interested in the naval theaters of WW1, including the Dardanelles operations leading up to and including Gallipoli, plus odd side ventures like the airships which I didn't realize anyone had ever taken seriously as weapons of war. On a personal level, I found the German navy in general very sympathetic throughout the war, always outnumbered, outgunned, and out-lead by an enemy that also enjoyed tremendous success in breaking their codes - puts the Enigma cracking and US breaking of Japan's codes during WW2 in some perspective. Hollywood could definitely make a movie about Spee's squadron or the wacky political antics of Beatty, Churchill, Fisher, and Jellicoe.
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Jan 26, 2015 20:57
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Effectronica posted:I guess the biggest issue would be what having a competent commander in charge of the Winter War from the start do. I guess foremost, not starting an invasion in winter. Or if you do, wait until lakes and marshes are frozen. And use troops and commanders who are used to the climate, not Ukrainian conscripts. Doctrinally speaking, telling your tankers never to return after breaking through Finnish lines just because they are separated from everyone and it's night (which comes pretty much immediately) might be one, but that would be better resolved by having radios on all tanks so they maintain contact.
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Jan 26, 2015 20:59
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Cythereal posted:Finished Castles of Steel and enjoyed it quite a bit. I'm not familiar enough with serious military history scholarship to critique it, but I recommend it to anyone interested in the naval theaters of WW1, including the Dardanelles operations leading up to and including Gallipoli, plus odd side ventures like the airships which I didn't realize anyone had ever taken seriously as weapons of war. It's typically German that having realised the British were reading all their communications during WW1, instead of absorbing the lesson that all communications should be treated as if they will be intercepted they went and built an incredibly technical machine that they thought would solve their encryption problem forever.
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Jan 26, 2015 21:00
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Nenonen posted:I guess foremost, not starting an invasion in winter. Or if you do, wait until lakes and marshes are frozen. And use troops and commanders who are used to the climate, not Ukrainian conscripts. Doctrinally speaking, telling your tankers never to return after breaking through Finnish lines just because they are separated from everyone and it's night (which comes pretty much immediately) might be one, but that would be better resolved by having radios on all tanks so they maintain contact. Actually, with Tukhachevsky remaining in the Stavka or leading the USSR, the Winter War probably never even happens- didn't he work out agreements with Mannerheim that resolved the issues the USSR invaded over?
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Jan 26, 2015 21:03
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Fangz posted:It's hard to imagine, but they did. For example, at the Somme. Yeah, if you read personal accounts of trench warfare a lot of them focus more on dodging shell fire in the rear area and the communication trenches then they do on the actual frontline.
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Jan 26, 2015 21:08
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feedmegin posted:But then you're talking about a situation where the Soviets attack the Allies first, no? War weariness is a real thing, but you're overestimating the effectiveness of the Soviet propaganda. Eg. Finnish soldiers were allowed to collect it, because it was thought to be so harmless.
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Jan 26, 2015 21:38
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Besides wouldn't the soviet troops be just as sick of it as anyone's? Especially considering they got hit harder by WW2 than anyone.
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Jan 26, 2015 21:53
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Agean90 posted:Besides wouldn't the soviet troops be just as sick of it as anyone's? Especially considering they got hit harder by WW2 than anyone. They'd be sick of it, but they'd be fighting Nazis in this scenario.
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Jan 26, 2015 21:59
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