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Also, Souma worked at a small-time restaurant right there in Japan, as opposed to fancy, high-class places in foreign lands like a lot of the other characters. Sure, he worked with his dad, who is apparently some insanely famous world-class chef, but Souma grew up making affordable stuff for regular people on the street.
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Jan 23, 2015 08:31
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Also, more importantly, most people don't know who his dad is.
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Jan 23, 2015 08:37
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Also his dad apparently never even taught him much about cooking and he learned everything by osmosis through butting heads with him. Maybe literally.
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Jan 23, 2015 08:41
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DoubleDonut posted:Also, Souma worked at a small-time restaurant right there in Japan, as opposed to fancy, high-class places in foreign lands like a lot of the other characters. Sure, he worked with his dad, who is apparently some insanely famous world-class chef, but Souma grew up making affordable stuff for regular people on the street. Yeah it's important to remember that almost all the people attending this school are rich as gently caress. SatansBestBuddy posted:You know, I kinda don't get where the "Souma represents the everyman" thing came from? I mean, I get that he's from a pretty typical line-chef background without a fancy upbringing or anything, but he's also competing with the top dogs of the school. He's constantly scored highly in both classes and competition. He makes Gundam's out of carrots and celery. So he's pretty clearly a very talented chef. I think it's trying to pace things so that the next chapter has time for the big decision and the fallout of Souma winning (I'm assuming he'll win).
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Jan 23, 2015 09:17
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Technically he does have a natural talent, it's just a very strong sense of determination and open mindedness that give him the ability to attain prodigious skill through hard work. It's not a very common talent but it's very easy to relate to, much more so than "born with god's tongue/nose/wealth/really cool two handed Italian knife". Ryo kind of developed through kind of the same circumstances as Soma though so I'm not really sure what the author is trying to get at.
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Jan 23, 2015 09:38
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Eej posted:Technically he does have a natural talent, it's just a very strong sense of determination and open mindedness that give him the ability to attain prodigious skill through hard work. It's not a very common talent but it's very easy to relate to, much more so than "born with god's tongue/nose/wealth/really cool two handed Italian knife". Ryo kind of developed through kind of the same circumstances as Soma though so I'm not really sure what the author is trying to get at. Ryou's kind of nuts and unrelatable and was taken under the wing of the Nakiris when he was still pretty young.
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Jan 23, 2015 09:45
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The problem with seeing Souma as an everyman character is that Megumi makes a much better everyman character.
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Jan 23, 2015 10:54
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Eej posted:Technically he does have a natural talent, it's just a very strong sense of determination and open mindedness that give him the ability to attain prodigious skill through hard work. It's not a very common talent but it's very easy to relate to, much more so than "born with god's tongue/nose/wealth/really cool two handed Italian knife". Ryo kind of developed through kind of the same circumstances as Soma though so I'm not really sure what the author is trying to get at. The point the author is getting at is "The students have been pissy at Souma because he forces them to confront the fact that they've never even really tried to be the best. They gave up before they'd even begun." Like, it's explicitly stated. Also determination and open-mindedness are more virtues to aspire to than some unattainable quality you have to be born with, which is part of the point. tonberrytoby posted:The problem with seeing Souma as an everyman character is that Megumi makes a much better everyman character. Agreein' w/ this.
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Jan 23, 2015 11:14
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SatansBestBuddy posted:You know, I kinda don't get where the "Souma represents the everyman" thing came from? I mean, I get that he's from a pretty typical line-chef background without a fancy upbringing or anything, But, tonberrytoby posted:The problem with seeing Souma as an everyman character is that Megumi makes a much better everyman character. This is the actual truth.
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Jan 23, 2015 17:57
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tonberrytoby posted:The problem with seeing Souma as an everyman character is that Megumi makes a much better everyman character. Megumi has a talent though, SHE COOKS WITH THE POWER OF HEAAAAAART.
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Jan 23, 2015 18:19
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Souma it's the shonen version of an everyman character in that he's an everyman despite being so amazing. Megumi is the opposite in that she's amazing despite being an every(wo)man which is the more typical concept.
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Jan 23, 2015 18:22
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Soma and Megumi are kinda exactly the same except Megumi is part of the group of 'everyman' who would be jealous of Soma. Soma looks at his failures and improves. He works tirelessly without giving up until something works. He never loses heart, and when he does it's only for a short time. He's not a superman in terms of being able to extract every taste or smell from a food, nor is he ultra talented to where everything he cooks is delicious at the first try, he just keeps trying until it is. This is a talent of his. Megumi looks at her failures and panicks and 'accepts' that she's a failure. Her whole arc was Soma teaching her that she has to believe that she can do better and improve, and not just accept that she's terrible, because she isn't. The first part of what Megumi does is basically what this chapter says everyone does when presented with a challenge. They make excuses and don't try again and again. Soma forced Megumi to move past that, and keep going.
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Jan 23, 2015 18:49
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KittyEmpress posted:Soma and Megumi are kinda exactly the same except Megumi is part of the group of 'everyman' who would be jealous of Soma. Megumi overcoming her weakness is the classic character arc of the everyman.
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Jan 23, 2015 19:28
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tonberrytoby posted:Soma doesn't really fail in the story. Every time he makes something that isn't perfect is in a comedic scene or even offscreen. But he does fail in the story, it's just not at the pivotal moments in the stories. Look at this very arc we are reading. He failed at being able to tell the best fish, because he wasn't a super talented genius. So he worked, and worked to find a way to match them anyways. He had his friends help him learn new techniques to use, and came up with an answer to make up for his lack of talent, after multiple days of working day and night. Yeah, he doesn't lose, but that's what they're talking about. Most of the students at the academy would see how their opponents were so much more talented than them and be crushed, and give up trying. They would go 'well I'm just not capable of beating them at this, and this is what's most important.' They wouldn't even think up the idea of preserving the fish, let alone try it out time and time again when it didn't come out good enough.
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Jan 23, 2015 19:51
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paragon1 posted:The point the author is getting at is "The students have been pissy at Souma because he forces them to confront the fact that they've never even really tried to be the best. They gave up before they'd even begun." I think this is where my problem is coming from; Souma isn't confronting people with that. He's too busy trying to outcook some of the best chefs in his year, which is where the story should be focusing right now. I guess this is an interesting tangent they can explore after the competition, but having it be dumped in the middle of judging feels.... distracting. Like they really needed to end on a cliffhanger this chapter after already ending on a cliffhanger last chapter. I should say, I'm not calling this a bad storyline to follow through, I'd just be far more interested if it's something Souma actually did rather than something other people speculate he's doing while he's busy doing something else entirely.
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Jan 23, 2015 19:59
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SatansBestBuddy posted:I think this is where my problem is coming from; Souma isn't confronting people with that. He's too busy trying to outcook some of the best chefs in his year, which is where the story should be focusing right now. I guess this is an interesting tangent they can explore after the competition, but having it be dumped in the middle of judging feels.... distracting. Like they really needed to end on a cliffhanger this chapter after already ending on a cliffhanger last chapter. Well he's not like going up to people and saying "I can succeed and I'm not a genius, what's your problem!?" He's making them confront their own flaws just by doing well. Everyone expects him to fail in front of these geniuses and he just doesn't. That's the whole point, it was never that he disrespected the school or whatever. Admittedly, this wasn't set up very well, and basically just came out of nowhere this chapter, but I still feel like it was handled pretty well and makes perfect sense. I mean, the only member of the (apparently gigantic) journalism club at this school we've seen is a huge Soma fanboy who writes nothing but positive articles about him. This doesn't exactly indicate that everyone is against him. And there haven't been any encounters with regular students who resent him either. But this is the big showdown so attaching some more significance to it is fine, especially since it's not, like, the announcer doing this, just a couple people off to the side having a discussion. It's not a masterstroke of plotting or anything, but it's a decent little thematic thing to throw on top of the end of this interminable election tournament. The fact that half this thread misread is as actually being the thing Eizan was mistaken about is kind of baffling to me. The whole point of the chapter is that he was wrong about everyone hating Soma for disrespecting the school.
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Jan 23, 2015 20:21
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Worth repeating: Megumi reached the quarter-finals of the tourney, meaning she's one of the eight best chefs in her school year. Not bad for someone who was on the verge of flunking out just a couple months ago.
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Jan 23, 2015 20:25
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Begemot posted:I mean, the only member of the (apparently gigantic) journalism club at this school we've seen is a huge Soma fanboy who writes nothing but positive articles about him. This doesn't exactly indicate that everyone is against him. And there haven't been any encounters with regular students who resent him either. But this is the big showdown so attaching some more significance to it is fine, especially since it's not, like, the announcer doing this, just a couple people off to the side having a discussion. Well, we did see multiple times that Soma was underestimated and played as a fool who would quickly lose by the journalism club. The only member we've seen even explicitly stated that everyone at the journalism club was expecting and writing as if Soma had no chance, and that no one besides him really liked Soma.
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Jan 23, 2015 20:41
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Begemot posted:Well he's not like going up to people and saying "I can succeed and I'm not a genius, what's your problem!?" It kinda reminds me of an early scene from Ultimate Spider-Man, where the Kingpin explained to Spidey why people hated him. The Kingpin posted:They, society, hates you because they don't want your help. You remind them of how weak-willed and sheep-like and unspecial they are. How gleeful they are, deep down, to be ordinary. They don't want heroes. They don't want special people around them. Because if there are special people and they aren't one of them-- well, who wants that? Who wants a constant reminder that they aren't even trying to be special? Now, I doubt a shonen cooking manga is going to particularly explore the issue of tall poppy syndrome in all that much depth, but if handled at least decently, it could make for an interesting recurring theme.
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Jan 23, 2015 21:55
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Astro Nut posted:Now, I doubt a shonen cooking manga is going to particularly explore the issue of tall poppy syndrome in all that much depth, but if handled at least decently, it could make for an interesting recurring theme. I hope they do explore more about it, and I love how goons have explored other psychological syndromes in stuff like Hero Academia when it popped up for Bakugou's backstory. However, I wish that this manga was a bit more 'show' and less 'tell' about how Soma is doing this. I almost wonder if they were intentionally so on-the-nose about it because some people don't buy Soma as an underdog: I've seen plenty of posts where people are almost bored with his constant win-streak. A real lack of tension, so to speak, so they are trying to forcefully inject some. Anyway, hopefully it goes alright, though when stuff like this happens where it's the poor vs the rich, I'm always afraid it's going to spiral out-of-control like Air Gear's ending...
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Jan 23, 2015 23:34
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Astro Nut posted:It kinda reminds me of an early scene from Ultimate Spider-Man, where the Kingpin explained to Spidey why people hated him. Dunno, that Kingpin quote sounds like the exact opposite so what it's happening here. Since Spiderman is 'special', people can think "ah, I can't ever compare to that" and can afford to Not Even Try without a sense of guilt.
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Jan 24, 2015 00:10
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FutureCop posted:I hope they do explore more about it, and I love how goons have explored other psychological syndromes in stuff like Hero Academia when it popped up for Bakugou's backstory. However, I wish that this manga was a bit more 'show' and less 'tell' about how Soma is doing this. I almost wonder if they were intentionally so on-the-nose about it because some people don't buy Soma as an underdog: I've seen plenty of posts where people are almost bored with his constant win-streak. A real lack of tension, so to speak, so they are trying to forcefully inject some. Anyway, hopefully it goes alright, though when stuff like this happens where it's the poor vs the rich, I'm always afraid it's going to spiral out-of-control like Air Gear's ending... I'm kinda hoping that, once he gets into the Elite Ten, it'll be less about the cooking and more about every other aspect of running a restaurant. Like, there's more to be a successful chef than just being a good cook, you also have to know how to deal with running a business, managing multiple other chefs, attracting people to your cookhouse over the other guys across the street. They touched on this a little bit earlier when Souma visited his hometown and helped out, and I hope they go after that further down the line because it's a really interesting angle. After all, his father is one of the greatest cooks ever, but he's also the owner of some middle of nowhere grillhouse with only his son around to help out, and while it's strongly hinted at that he's there mostly by choice, it could also be that his father isn't all that great at inspiring or leading other people, and so running a successful restaurant any larger than himself and one other person he really trusts is beyond him. So having his kid become not only a better cook than he is, but also a better businessman and leader, would be pretty cool I think. Right now, Souma doesn't have that kind of ambition, he really just wants to keep cooking at home with his dad, but I see a lot of potential there. Or at least to make it so the cooking is still the focus but not the end-all-be-all of every situation.
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Jan 24, 2015 00:41
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I think it's inevitable that we'll see at least some of the business aspect of it all, seeing as one of the Elites who hates him and has it out for him is the guy who is a master in business management over even cooking.
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Jan 24, 2015 00:46
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FutureCop posted:I hope they do explore more about it, and I love how goons have explored other psychological syndromes in stuff like Hero Academia when it popped up for Bakugou's backstory. However, I wish that this manga was a bit more 'show' and less 'tell' about how Soma is doing this. I almost wonder if they were intentionally so on-the-nose about it because some people don't buy Soma as an underdog: I've seen plenty of posts where people are almost bored with his constant win-streak. A real lack of tension, so to speak, so they are trying to forcefully inject some. Anyway, hopefully it goes alright, though when stuff like this happens where it's the poor vs the rich, I'm always afraid it's going to spiral out-of-control like Air Gear's ending... I definitely agree about Soma not really feeling like an underdog; the only guy who he seemed like he had to struggle against at all was Mimasaka. Obviously it's kind of hard to do in a cooking manga - it's not like Soma could just have a BURST OF WILLPOWER and suddenly make his dish better like a combat or sports manga, after all. But at some point I think he's going to have to, uh, actually lose to someone who isn't his dad, which means at some point he's gonna have to have a shokugeki where the terms aren't "Souma stops cooking forever."
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Jan 24, 2015 02:12
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Kyte posted:Dunno, that Kingpin quote sounds like the exact opposite so what it's happening here. Since Spiderman is 'special', people can think "ah, I can't ever compare to that" and can afford to Not Even Try without a sense of guilt. Actually the quote's notion is the opposite - that having such a high benchmark makes how little they're trying even more apparent, so they lash out at him for making them look bad. Still, I can see why it might be a bit of an... obtuse way of explaining it to the reader. (Mind you, that understanding was used for the DC vs Marvel videos, but hey). But yeah, selling the whole notion more convincingly with Soma would seem important, because whilst yes he's 'only' running on talent in so much he has built up experience by refusing to back down, the way the story has told it so far doesn't quite hit what the author is going for. Something that could work, thinking on it, would be if Soma were perhaps were to do 'mundane' meals more often. Like when he went back to his home district, and just got on with serving customers in simple fashion. Even when the actual plot of that small arc kicked in, the solution was more in convenience than it was specifically taste (though Soma did well there because Soma). That sort of thing would help remind on where the guy came from, just doing staples rather well, than having some inherent sense of smell or whatever.
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Jan 24, 2015 02:29
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Yes what I'm saying is that the stated message in that quote runs directly opposite to the message in SnS, and if we were to frame the situation according to SnS's message then it'd go the way I said. I probably should've put more words for context. E: That said I think the idea is to tie this to Souma's habit of experimenting with weird combinations of food. He is better at combining and adapting techniques because he makes a habit of working with weird stuff. A cook that cooks well within their niche won't grow nearly as much as somebody that keeps messing up from pushing their boundaries. He also insists on using previously failed techniques on subsequent contests such that they succeed the second time. And of course his habit of challenging people who by all rights are far above his skill level. All in all this builds up to this idea of constant experimentation and refinement, which is not at all special but most people just don't bother to try. Kyte fucked around with this message at 03:40 on Jan 24, 2015 |
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Jan 24, 2015 03:35
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Souma honestly comes off as a prodigy compared to the one-trick ponies that comprise like everyone he's competed against.
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Jan 24, 2015 04:50
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Fabricated posted:Souma honestly comes off as a prodigy compared to the one-trick ponies that comprise like everyone he's competed against. No matter what complaints people have about Souma it's not as bad as Alice "the greatest chef ever" who's done absolutely nothing but stand around and get angry/flustered at Souma.
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Jan 24, 2015 16:59
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pentyne posted:No matter what complaints people have about Souma it's not as bad as Alice "the greatest chef ever" who's done absolutely nothing but stand around and get angry/flustered at Souma. Don't you mean Erina? Alice is the Molecular Gastronomy chick who's been pretty drat cool up until now.
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Jan 24, 2015 17:10
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So, Souma loses, kind of, and now has a definite goal he needs to reach. He doesn't really have a identity as a cook beyond just being able to cook great food.
pentyne fucked around with this message at 04:41 on Jan 26, 2015 |
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Jan 26, 2015 04:18
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This is what I get for clicking on the thread before checking if a new chapter is out.
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Jan 26, 2015 04:23
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pentyne posted:whoops Ah come on bro
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Jan 26, 2015 04:27
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That was super dumb. The judging criteria was nonsensical.
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Jan 26, 2015 04:28
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pentyne posted:fart fart fart Come on man. Spoilers.
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Jan 26, 2015 04:34
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Can't trust a garbage dick to do anything right
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Jan 26, 2015 04:36
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Well that was silly. WHO WILL WIN? THIS GUY WHO'S GETTING A DRAMATIC FLASHBACK OF COURSE! I don't even begin to understand the judging criteria. How do you even measure how hard someone stuck to their theme?
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Jan 26, 2015 08:29
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I thought it was your standard cooking anime cliche. "You lost because you cooked for yourself, and not for the judges." "You lost because you cooked for the judges, whereas the main character cooked for his sick father dying in a hospital." I'm pretty sure that literally happened in Mr. Sushi King. At least the last part did. Curry boy cooked for someone, whereas the other two cooked for themselves / to win / whatever. So you could 'see' the face of the curry boy cause you could sense who he made it for because anime shenanigans. Specialty is love. Or something.
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Jan 26, 2015 08:35
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Yeah, can't say I'm really happy with the outcome, but ehhhh oh well. More Megumi please.
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Jan 26, 2015 08:50
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Alright, so, Viz's WSJ is allegedly supposed to come out at the same time as it does in Japan, right? So why the gently caress does Casanova have the jump on Viz?!
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Jan 26, 2015 08:53
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SwissArmyDruid posted:Alright, so, Viz's WSJ is allegedly supposed to come out at the same time as it does in Japan, right? Technically scanlators for the popular series have been doing it for a while. It's how we've been getting One Piece, Naruto, and Bleach a week before the official releases in Japan and America. Shokugeki no Souma hasn't though till recently.
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