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Flameingblack posted:I've seen him play really good Supertanks like Mundo, but the issue is that he's the Doublelift of top lane, and now CLG basically has two doublelifts that will fight one another on the chance to split push all game and attempt to carry completely on their own. I guess Mundo is still... (technically) a hyper-scaling melee carry. Pro Top lane is very unique right now. You have to play team supporting champions with extremely difficult timings and it's almost all decision-making (when/where to teleport, timing/engaging with Gnar/Liss/Rumble ult). Zion has never seemed like a player that excelled at any of those things to me. Maybe I'm wrong and he's about to dust off some major play and push CLG over the hump they've never been able to cross, but I doubt both him and the team they have built for this split.
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Jan 26, 2015 20:20
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| # ? May 28, 2024 07:36 |
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Savage Cracker posted:(Hopefully) better communication is the only thing I think Zion is going to add to CLG compared to Seraph unless toplane hyper carries make a return.
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Jan 26, 2015 20:21
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Libertine posted:I guess Mundo is still... (technically) a hyper-scaling melee carry. Yet Irelia is also presently a meta top laner as a counter to Gnar and she's exactly the kind of melee super carry Zion is good at. If he's any good at Lissandra CLG could theoretically force bans on one or both of those champions and get more freedom to draft not-LeBlanc for Link and an ADC with actual range for Doublelift.
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Jan 26, 2015 20:28
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Lightning Knight posted:Yet Irelia is also presently a meta top laner as a counter to Gnar and she's exactly the kind of melee super carry Zion is good at. If he's any good at Lissandra CLG could theoretically force bans on one or both of those champions and get more freedom to draft not-LeBlanc for Link and an ADC with actual range for Doublelift. Yeah I'm assuming if you sign Zion to play for your team, you want him on Jax / Irelia type champions every game and you want to build teams around that. That's what I expect from CLG, but with the added issue of Doublelift's constant stubborness, who knows what their P/B phases will look like. Top laners who are carry mains just seem to struggle in extended pro play. EG kind of showed with Innox (and Zion showed with his own previous teams), that if you can ban the strong(est) carry or two against them and force them onto less powerful individual champions those kind of players don't seem to be able to adapt.
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Jan 26, 2015 20:31
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if you're ever talking about clg and say 'if [thing] happens they will be really good' - thing will never happen and you should feel embarrassed and ashamed for thinking it will
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Jan 26, 2015 20:32
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Watching C9 - Gravity now: Wow, Hai looks baaaaad. Not sure what is going on with him, but I haven't seen him look this bad since C9 was in challenger under a different name.
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Jan 26, 2015 21:00
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Sexpansion posted:Watching C9 - Gravity now: Obviously his lung collapsed again and stole his skill. 
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Jan 26, 2015 21:05
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Sexpansion posted:Watching C9 - Gravity now: That game was way more troubling than the tsm game in terms of upsets b/c in my opinion c9 had the better comp and played the early game way better (despite balls insanely dumb death) and then just lost anyways because ???
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Jan 26, 2015 21:07
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Keven. Just. Keven posted:That game was way more troubling than the tsm game in terms of upsets b/c in my opinion c9 had the better comp and played the early game way better (despite balls insanely dumb death) and then just lost anyways because ??? Totally agree. They had a way better teamcomp, then proceeded to teamfight horribly over and over and over again.
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Jan 26, 2015 21:09
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Keven. Just. Keven posted:That game was way more troubling than the tsm game in terms of upsets b/c in my opinion c9 had the better comp and played the early game way better (despite balls insanely dumb death) and then just lost anyways because ??? Mostly because Sion was a bad choice for the tank I think. Against Kass Zed Vi somebody that immobile is no good. Maokai woulda been way better for instance. As it was, C9 effectively had no frontline, just a bunch of shields for Kog.
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Jan 26, 2015 21:11
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I think c9 will bounce back, they did last split after going 0-2 to COMPLEXITY.
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Jan 26, 2015 21:11
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Now that coaches part of the p&b phase rather than just being a C9 strength because they researched it, what else do they have going for them at that point? Just Hai's shot calling?
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Jan 26, 2015 21:12
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Flipswitch posted:Now that coaches part of the p&b phase rather than just being a C9 strength because they researched it, what else do they have going for them at that point? Just Hai's shot calling? Hai's Talon
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Jan 26, 2015 21:15
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AnonSpore posted:Hai's Talon And his earring.
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Jan 26, 2015 21:19
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Savage Cracker posted:And his earring. came to post this
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Jan 26, 2015 21:19
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Flipswitch posted:Now that coaches part of the p&b phase rather than just being a C9 strength because they researched it, what else do they have going for them at that point? Just Hai's shot calling? They used to have good teamfighting but their teamfighting looked awful this weekend. I honestly think that we're not really seeing C9 is bad (though they looked out of practice), we're seeing the rest of NA having picked up enough of what made C9 so good that their weaknesses are much more pronounced. After a year and a half and bad luck with Hai's Lung C9 came back last summer to find everyone learning all their tricks and they were accordingly no longer as dominant. This doesn't explain why TSM is still bad and lost to Team 8 though, other than maybe Santorin is really bad.
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Jan 26, 2015 21:20
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Huh, that's true, lemon's pb phase has always been a major strength.
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Jan 26, 2015 21:21
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Flipswitch posted:Now that coaches part of the p&b phase rather than just being a C9 strength because they researched it, what else do they have going for them at that point? Just Hai's shot calling? Sneaky being a god, mostly. I...gotta be honest, C9 never really impressed me at the playmaking level besides him. People always say Balls is good, but every time I look at him he performs like crap. Something about C9 feels ready to get exposed, and though I don't wanna see them lose I can't shake off the feeling that they're gonna tumble hard this split. Lightning Knight posted:They used to have good teamfighting but their teamfighting looked awful this weekend. I honestly think that we're not really seeing C9 is bad (though they looked out of practice), we're seeing the rest of NA having picked up enough of what made C9 so good that their weaknesses are much more pronounced. After a year and a half and bad luck with Hai's Lung C9 came back last summer to find everyone learning all their tricks and they were accordingly no longer as dominant. Bad PB mostly. Loco must have spent all his time researching C9 instead of prepping for Team 8 as well.
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Jan 26, 2015 21:22
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C9 played like rear end in the teamfights on day 2 they did poo poo like where the 0 damage frontline dove while the damage stayed back because they got zoned, almost like they had no communication.
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Jan 26, 2015 21:28
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Okay Xspecial solo-killing a half-health xsmithie was pretty hilarious.
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Jan 26, 2015 21:29
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I'm under the impression that leblanc is an incredibly risky blind pick for competitive right now. I know her mobility is the best out of all the midlaners, but I don't think she's super effective against coordinated teams. What do you guys think?
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Jan 26, 2015 21:30
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I think Curse/Liquid is the only NA team that actually took the off-season to correct all of their issues and build a better team and they might win this split because of it. Cloud 9 is basically the same team, but worse, out of practice, not having the same advantages they used to because other teams stepping up their planning, their lack of vision and off-kilter games really will haunt them all split probably. TSM blamed Amazing for all of their problems and then went out and down-graded their jungler. Dignitas said gently caress it let's shoot for the bottom, got rid of their good players, kept their bad ones, and rolled the dice on some Koreans just because. CLG still has Link and Doublelift (the problems), they just brought in two new guys to shift the blame to. TIP built a whole new team from scratch so I don't think they can really be compared here. They are basically like the new Challenger tier of teams but they have an insanely high ceiling if they put it together and get communication right. None of this year's challenger teams are free wins or push-overs. They all blend experienced players with extremely high ELO challenger players. There's not much to say that they are on paper any worse than any of the old guard.
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Jan 26, 2015 21:35
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Y'all are blowing this way out of proportion; exactly like the people who thought Summer Split was the end of C9. They'll pick up by playoffs, and while neither first or second place is guaranteed for them, they're still going to be top 3.
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Jan 26, 2015 21:38
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Lightning Knight posted:This doesn't explain why TSM is still bad and lost to Team 8 though, other than maybe Santorin is really bad. Savage Cracker posted:And his earring. Transient People posted:Sneaky being a god, mostly. I...gotta be honest, C9 never really impressed me at the playmaking level besides him. People always say Balls is good, but every time I look at him he performs like crap. Something about C9 feels ready to get exposed, and though I don't wanna see them lose I can't shake off the feeling that they're gonna tumble hard this split. 
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Jan 26, 2015 21:38
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Another thing is because the season is only 18 games for each team each loss counts for more and it likely wont take many more losses to make a top 2 finish difficult.
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Jan 26, 2015 21:39
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c9 played lacked communication in teamfights and they banned loving rumble and lissandra every game like you are supposed to vs them. I think santorin is better than amazing because he has the confidence to actually throw his weight around which is a must when playing the jungle role. Amazing didnt want anyone to blame him if things went wrong in any of his games so he just played like "uh guys im not feeding i must be doing great right?"
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Jan 26, 2015 21:42
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Savage Cracker posted:Another thing is because the season is only 18 games for each team each loss counts for more and it likely wont take many more losses to make a top 2 finish difficult. I think you'll start seeing desperate teams make roster changes after Week 2/3. That happened last split IIRC. We'll see how the teams differentiate in the standings, but yeah lack of games will make late-season rallies really difficult.
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Jan 26, 2015 21:44
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Welp, this week confirms that the worst things about watching competitive league are still Phreak and Riv. I don't even know that I'm going to tune in to a single EU match without Joe and Deman. At least LPL has Pastrytime! Can someone direct me to the competitive thread that doesn't have any fantasy stuff in it? I can't find it.
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Jan 26, 2015 22:19
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phreak was so terrible it was amazing to watch him find the most awkward poo poo possible to say it was almost like he was doing it on purpose or something
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Jan 26, 2015 22:24
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ESEX wrote a piece about HTC and the NALCSBadfinger posted:Welp, this week confirms that the worst things about watching competitive league are still Phreak and Riv. I don't even know that I'm going to tune in to a single EU match without Joe and Deman. At least LPL has Pastrytime! I'm hoping PIra will turn into a decent caster on the EU side. He's already tolerable and better than Riv.
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Jan 26, 2015 22:24
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Badfinger posted:Can someone direct me to the competitive thread that doesn't have any fantasy stuff in it? I can't find it. I put forth a suggestion that we keep our Fantasy discussions in the post framework on the Fantasy Esports website. I'm not sure if people are cool with that or not, but it seems like a good compromise. Other people have added that the fantasy stuff usually dies out really hard after a few weeks.
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Jan 26, 2015 22:29
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Libertine posted:I put forth a suggestion that we keep our Fantasy discussions in the post framework on the Fantasy Esports website. I'm not sure if people are cool with that or not, but it seems like a good compromise. Other people have added that the fantasy stuff usually dies out really hard after a few weeks.
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Jan 26, 2015 22:34
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Flameingblack posted:In two or three more weeks people won't post about their fantasy teams until the season's over, it's the same thing that happened last time. We're still discussing individual players and teams, it's still all on topic. It's a hard rule in SAS to not post fantasy stuff in discussion threads, and it's one of the best rules ever made. I wish the NA broadcast team was just Jatt and Kobe, talking about junglers forever.
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Jan 26, 2015 22:58
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Libertine posted:I put forth a suggestion that we keep our Fantasy discussions in the post framework on the Fantasy Esports website. I'm not sure if people are cool with that or not, but it seems like a good compromise. Other people have added that the fantasy stuff usually dies out really hard after a few weeks. That'd be really cool, how about y'all try it out. I think we're pretty close to the seven people Flameingblack set as the official requirement of fantasy talk non-wanters, and considering that number was probably meticulously calculated to indicate a sufficient consensus on how the thread should be steered, it looks like we don't want fantasy LCS here. In other news, Ocelote (along with Dexter) seems to be booked for the IEM Taipei gig as an analyst. With G2 being an endless pit of (whose?) money, maybe it's high time to look for a real job  The strangeness a "talent line-up" announcement being about commentators is not entirely lost on me.
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Jan 26, 2015 23:04
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Amazing left TSM, it wasn't like TSM kicked him out. Amazing being home sick and wanting to go back to EU put TSM in a bad spot this offseason since it was going to be hard for them to do anything at jungler. I think Santorin is probably a decent prospect, and might develop into a top class jungler, but I think its more likely TSM goes full Yankees and dumps him for a big talent around summer split. Maybe Meteos when C9 disbands.
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Jan 26, 2015 23:07
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Libertine posted:I put forth a suggestion that we keep our Fantasy discussions in the post framework on the Fantasy Esports website. I'm not sure if people are cool with that or not, but it seems like a good compromise. Other people have added that the fantasy stuff usually dies out really hard after a few weeks. This makes it really hard to discuss inter-league stuff with other people though. If we have to find another place, it should be its own thread.
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Jan 26, 2015 23:10
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C9 really needed a Maokai (was disabled for week 1 I assume), a Lulu or a Kayle for that comp to work. Zed and Kassadin don't give a poo poo about Sion or Rek'sai, they can just blink right past him to blow up Hai and Sneaky. Not that Hai/Balls/Meteos played well at all, but that comp seemed doomed to begin with. C9 really needed to replace Hai in the offseason - even without Balls/Meteos playing like garbage, Hai (playing as he has since the start of the summer split) is outclassed by every other NA mid except possibly Slooshie. Firebert fucked around with this message at 23:32 on Jan 26, 2015 |
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Jan 26, 2015 23:30
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Firebert posted:C9 really needed a Maokai (was disabled for week 1 I assume), a Lulu or a Kayle for that comp to work. Zed and Kassadin don't give a poo poo about Sion or Rek'sai, they can just blink right past him to blow up Hai and Sneaky. Not that Hai/Balls/Meteos played well at all, but that comp seemed doomed to begin with. Hai was very much outclassed by Slooshie. They played the same champions. Hai couldn't give his team what was required. Slooshie owned it. Hai needs to be outthinking the enemy team or he is completely worthless to the team.
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Jan 27, 2015 00:21
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Jerkface posted:I think Santorin is probably a decent prospect, and might develop into a top class jungler, but I think its more likely TSM goes full Yankees and dumps him for a big talent around summer split. Maybe Meteos when C9 disbands. Is Meteos really an upgrade? I feel like it's been a while since there was a game where I really went "Yeah Meteos kicked rear end!" like it used to be back in earlier seasons.
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Jan 27, 2015 00:47
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Here's the new fantasy thread for this season. If it doesn't get a lot of attention then next season we're keeping them in one thread and you'll just have to deal w/ it since there's no reason to have a fantasy thread for the 5 people who post about it.
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Jan 27, 2015 00:55
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