|
Huh, haven't played Eden before... Ended up beating Chest without taking damage.
|
#
?
Jan 26, 2015 08:47
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 19, 2024 19:37 |
|
|
The Lamb just killed a decent Eve run with just the head left at about 25% health. That drat spinny brimstone attack hit me twice and that was that. Shame, really, I had the Halo, the Wafer, and the Pentagram from bosses and treasure rooms, plus the Ceremonial Robes from a first-floor curse room. I ended up with half a dozen devil/angel items and only bought one of them. On a semi-related note, does anyone else feel like Tech 2 is a bit of a trap? Infinite range and massive hit speed is great and all, but it cuts your damage by so much and seems to not have nearly the amount of status triggers as you'd expect it would; even if I have poison, fear and charm tears at the same time, I only affect an enemy with a status about once in a good five seconds in the beam.
|
|
#
?
Jan 26, 2015 12:09
|
|
|
kvx687 posted:On a semi-related note, does anyone else feel like Tech 2 is a bit of a trap? Infinite range and massive hit speed is great and all, but it cuts your damage by so much and seems to not have nearly the amount of status triggers as you'd expect it would; even if I have poison, fear and charm tears at the same time, I only affect an enemy with a status about once in a good five seconds in the beam. Yeah, the tech items are woefully under-powered. I feel tech 0.5 is the best as at least you have your normal tears as well. But otherwise you need to have triple or quad shot to get any decent damage out of tech, and with that you have to get close in which kinda defeats one of the tech drawcards. Still trying to finish up hard mode with The Lost. Got the d100 eventually but I'm at something like a -400 kill streak with only It Lives and Boss Rush done. I've not tried it, but I doubt I can hit alt-f4 quickly enough to save a promising run. At some point soon I'm going to throw the towel in I'd say.
|
|
#
?
Jan 26, 2015 13:25
|
|
|
Super Bandage was dumb and I hate the RNG strategies but it's done so suck it game. Now to dump 200+ coins into the donation machine. 
|
|
#
?
Jan 26, 2015 16:32
|
|
|
Finally got an infinite reroll set up going, and I got super meat boy, but super bandage girl refuses to finish up. In fact, I just noticed in the mass of babies there are two super meat boys. 
|
|
#
?
Jan 26, 2015 17:20
|
|
|
Sage Grimm posted:Super Bandage was dumb and I hate the RNG strategies but it's done so suck it game. That's not too bad. Just play as Cain and abuse his extra luck.
|
|
#
?
Jan 26, 2015 17:32
|
|
|
Start as Azazel to grind coins. Easy, fast, and you can fly for extra pickups.
|
|
#
?
Jan 26, 2015 17:42
|
|
|
Yeah, that's no big deal to get enough coins. Using the Alt-F4 trick, you can do successive donations with the same coin total and the donation machine will continue to go up in between restarts. Yet repetitious nonsense is repetitious.
|
|
#
?
Jan 26, 2015 18:18
|
|
|
I mean you don't HAVE to cheese it. You could just do it naturally as you play the game. I really don't care about cheesing most things because some stuff in the game is legitimately bullshit (the meat boy/bandage girl split is just terrible) but the coin donation machine is really just a benefit to actually playing the game. Remember that even after you do get it to 999 you'll still have to pick up the stopwatch to add it to the collection so really 200 coins isn't that bad compared to what you have coming to you after you get there. 
|
|
#
?
Jan 26, 2015 18:27
|
|
|
CJacobs posted:I mean you don't HAVE to cheese it. You could just do it naturally as you play the game. I really don't care about cheesing most things because some stuff in the game is legitimately bullshit (the meat boy/bandage girl split is just terrible) but the coin donation machine is really just a benefit to actually playing the game. Remember that even after you do get it to 999 you'll still have to pick up the stopwatch to add it to the collection so really 200 coins isn't that bad compared to what you have coming to you after you get there. After unlocking, the stopwatch seems to appear at least once every 10 games for me. Not tedious.
|
|
#
?
Jan 26, 2015 19:21
|
|
|
If you're smart, you'll do your donations while running basement 1 for the Steven drop. It's the easiest secret room to find usually.
|
|
#
?
Jan 26, 2015 19:27
|
|
|
Vic Boss posted:After unlocking, the stopwatch seems to appear at least once every 10 games for me. Not tedious. Especially considering it's the most absurdly powerful item in the game. It's the closest thing to Easy Mode there is.
|
|
#
?
Jan 26, 2015 19:31
|
|
|
CJacobs posted:I mean you don't HAVE to cheese it. You could just do it naturally as you play the game. I really don't care about cheesing most things because some stuff in the game is legitimately bullshit (the meat boy/bandage girl split is just terrible) but the coin donation machine is really just a benefit to actually playing the game. Remember that even after you do get it to 999 you'll still have to pick up the stopwatch to add it to the collection so really 200 coins isn't that bad compared to what you have coming to you after you get there. Coming from someone who decided to cheat rather than unlock the Lost stuff and the bandage/meat stuff, I found the coin stuff to be pretty painless. I also had like 800 banked when I started though.
|
|
#
?
Jan 26, 2015 19:45
|
|
|
Cain is better than Azazel for donation grinding. Flying doesn't mean very much if you don't have keys to get in the shop. You waste a lot of time trying to find a key. Cain starts with a key and has high luck. So that means you're going to get more coins overall across your runs, and he will always be able to enter the first shop. I finally beat The Lamb as The Lost last night. I got ipecac, holy mantle, then the stop watch. I was able to put together 3 pretty flies, book of shadows, and the emperor card. I finally became guppy in the dark room. I ended up not needing book of shadows in the last fight at all because lamb got wrecked by my ridiculous fly/exploding scythe DPS. Also, my damage was ridiculous from damage ups in the devil rooms. It was fun. Now I just have to do boss rush.
|
|
#
?
Jan 27, 2015 00:13
|
|
|
ErIog posted:Now I just have to do boss rush. Watch out for leftover red poop/flies/spiders/maggots in there. For me the Gish/Monstro II wave was the hardest, but Bloat and Death/Fallen can also get you with offscreen bullshit.
|
|
#
?
Jan 27, 2015 00:17
|
|
|
ErIog posted:Cain is better than Azazel for donation grinding. Flying doesn't mean very much if you don't have keys to get in the shop. You waste a lot of time trying to find a key. Cain starts with a key and has high luck. So that means you're going to get more coins overall across your runs, and he will always be able to enter the first shop. I think flying and mini-brimstone as your starting abilities are definitely better than lovely Cain for grinding coins and getting to the first shop. The fact that the machine jams is the bottleneck here. If you get 50 coins before getting to the shop as Cain, but it jams in 5 coins, what was the point? Just choose the flying murder machine and snag all the coins and chests that are behind rocks or pits. Rush through to the first store, donate all you can, and either keep going if you haven't jammed it or just die.
|
|
#
?
Jan 27, 2015 00:18
|
|
|
Azazel is great for casual stress free play, but Cain has become my #1 over Judas. While I love Judas' super high damage, Cain also has good damage, good luck, great speed, and two hearts for an extra edge. Once I unlock everything I see myself playing mostly him and Isaac, with some Eve now that she's much better.
|
|
#
?
Jan 27, 2015 00:19
|
|
|
Vic Boss posted:I think flying and mini-brimstone as your starting abilities are definitely better than lovely Cain for grinding coins and getting to the first shop. The fact that the machine jams is the bottleneck here. If you get 50 coins before getting to the shop as Cain, but it jams in 5 coins, what was the point? Just choose the flying murder machine and snag all the coins and chests that are behind rocks or pits. Rush through to the first store, donate all you can, and either keep going if you haven't jammed it or just die. I assume that when most people grind coins they just restart the run once the donation machine jams? It's an interesting question but I can see the odds working in Cain's favor, you have a 100% chance to access the first store and the donation machine, which is already a rather big boost, you have a higher chance for drops including coins so your chance of donating at least one coin per 1-2 minutes of time investment (clearing the floor excluding boss, donating whatever you picked up so far, restarting). Where with Azazel you might clear the floor faster but there's a considerable chance you won't find a key or be able to access the store through the secret room and while you might occasionally gain access to coins that require flying I'm not sure what difference that would make on average, but my gut feeling is that it would be somewhat less than the luck boost.
|
|
#
?
Jan 27, 2015 00:25
|
|
|
It'd have to be more. Tons of times I'm on basement one or two and go through a room with a glut of coins trapped behind a ton of rocks I'd need like 4 bombs for. You'll get at least one key by caves.
|
|
#
?
Jan 27, 2015 00:33
|
|
|
Black August posted:It'd have to be more. Tons of times I'm on basement one or two and go through a room with a glut of coins trapped behind a ton of rocks I'd need like 4 bombs for. You'll get at least one key by caves. We're talking about donation grinding. So going past the first floor is inefficient, and you'll rarely be able to put a crazy number of coins in the machine before it jams anyway. Getting money in Isaac is really easy when that's all you care about using consumables to do and you don't plan on ever moving to the next floor. So that's not really a significant bottleneck like it seems like it would be. The big bottleneck for donation grinding is getting into the shop and the donation machine jamming. Vic Boss posted:The fact that the machine jams is the bottleneck here. If you get 50 coins before getting to the shop as Cain, but it jams in 5 coins, what was the point? Cain isn't about maximizing the number of coins picked up. Cain is about the reliability of always getting into the shop. I simply mentioned the coins because I think what you lose by not being able to fly you can probably make up or do even better with Cain's high luck stat. Your last point also applies to your argument too. What good is being able to clear rooms quickly and get coins on islands if I can't get into the shop to ever donate the money? Also, "flying murder machine" doesn't really apply here since you're not going past the first floor. The base charge time on Azazel's attack actually makes him not that fast to use despite having high damage. The only rooms that I think he might clear a little more quickly are some of the big room layouts. Base damage is more than sufficient for clearing most rooms quickly. Even if Azazel was faster clearing rooms, you're wasting a bunch of time as Azazel clearing extra rooms in order to find a key a lot of the time. You'll also feel pressure to kill the boss and move to the next floor to try to find a key so you can donate what you've picked up. That's a big waste of time that Cain just doesn't have to deal with. Cain never has to fight the first floor boss. Cain never needs to move to the next floor. You can just hit the R key, and voila you have a key, a usable donation machine, and more rooms to clear to find money. Cain can usually find enough money to jam the machine, he will always be able to donate it without needing to go to the next floor. I used to think Azazel would be good for donation grinding too until I actually tried to do it. It was a super tedious process that took a significant chunk of time. Then I switched over to Cain, and I was able to accomplish in an hour what had taken me 3 hours with Azazel. I know Azazel seems like he would be great for donation grinding, but Cain is actually better. On the topic of the inherent worth of Cain, it's funny to see people talk about what a bad character Cain is now that Luck Foot doesn't include PHD. They nerfed Cain because they overhauled how luck works in the game, and made it affect drop rates from rooms. Cain is probably not as good as Isaac with the D6, but he's a great character. It's just that the advantage he comes with is subtle, and helps him out in a zillion tiny ways throughout the run. They didn't just objectively nerf him or anything. They just changed him so that his advantage works differently in Rebirth, but he still has quite a lot going for him. ErIog fucked around with this message at 01:01 on Jan 27, 2015 |
|
#
?
Jan 27, 2015 00:48
|
|
|
Yeah I still think murder machine is better at the grinding than Cain. So much time saved on all enemies and bosses. I think 400 coins took me like an hour or something.
|
|
#
?
Jan 27, 2015 00:50
|
|
|
Yeah it's the enemies you want to get through fast, and the fact that you probably want two or three floors anyways to even get the machine to jam, so more coins is better. Just more relaxing and fun as Azazel anyways.
|
|
#
?
Jan 27, 2015 00:52
|
|
|
Vic Boss posted:Yeah I still think murder machine is better at the grinding than Cain. So much time saved on all enemies and bosses. I think 400 coins took me like an hour or something. Think of the time you could have saved not needing to ever fight a boss. Black August posted:Yeah it's the enemies you want to get through fast, and the fact that you probably want two or three floors anyways to even get the machine to jam, so more coins is better. Why would you want the machine to jam, and why would you want to go 2 or 3 floors? I'll accept that Azazel is more fun for you, but objectively the quickest way to do grind coins is to use Cain, clear the first floor minus the boss room, donate all the first floor money, and then hit the R key. It's very consistently fast and reliable in a way that the multi-floor Azazel method isn't.
|
|
#
?
Jan 27, 2015 00:58
|
|
|
Normal mode spits out keys like nothing else anyway. I tried both and azazel is much, much faster.
|
|
#
?
Jan 27, 2015 01:01
|
|
|
Zo posted:Normal mode spits out keys like nothing else anyway. I tried both and azazel is much, much faster. One of the big differences here could be that I am playing primarily on the Vita where the framerate issues are basically the same as Flash Isaac. I get a lot of slowdown using Azazel because of his Brimstone, and that issue probably doesn't exist if you're playing on PC. I still think Cain is faster, but the difference is probably not as stark as it is on the Vita. I compared the in-game timer to my watch once, and the game clock was 30-40% slower by the time I killed Mom. I never thought about that being a factor until people here were referring to Azazel as a fast character. He doesn't feel fast on the Vita because of the framerate issues. Cain was about 3x as fast filling the machine over many hours of me doing it. Doing it on PS4 as Azazel probably wouldn't have been bad, but I did most of my grinding on the train. ErIog fucked around with this message at 01:08 on Jan 27, 2015 |
|
#
?
Jan 27, 2015 01:03
|
|
|
I want to jam it so it takes all the coins I can find before I restart? Like what if it needs 50, may as well try. Azazel is so mobile and strong that you can easily hit depths with no upgrades, too. Plus if I get an insane run I may as well see it through for fun. Like, I want to have fun, not be 200% speedficient. Why even play otherwise. Azazel lets me grind while also have a relaxing game and maybe find items I'm missing, or hit on Ludivico and just rip stuff up before another go at donations.
|
|
#
?
Jan 27, 2015 01:04
|
|
|
Just found Bob's Brain in four individual chests, i'm not picking you up, stupid.
|
|
#
?
Jan 27, 2015 01:07
|
|
|
Black August posted:Like, I want to have fun, not be 200% speedficient. Why even play otherwise. Fun? I remember fun. It was the thing I used to have before trying to unlock Godhead. Realtalk: I love The Lost, and I have a lot of fun playing him.
|
|
#
?
Jan 27, 2015 01:10
|
|
|
Azazel is life. E: Does pretty much everyone agree that Brimstone is their favourite single item for becoming OP and winning runs? I think I'm in the Mom's Knife fan club myself. Slightly harder to use than Brimstone, but it makes it more fun. Like a little accuracy risk-vs-reward game.
|
|
#
?
Jan 27, 2015 01:12
|
|
|
Vic Boss posted:Azazel is life. I dislike both, because they pretty much lock your tears and half the fun in this stupid game is seeing how your build changes and becomes more powerful as you go. 20/20 for me.
|
|
#
?
Jan 27, 2015 01:20
|
|
|
AnonSpore posted:I dislike both, because they pretty much lock your tears and half the fun in this stupid game is seeing how your build changes and becomes more powerful as you go. 20/20 for me. I like 20/20 too, though the Lost Contact or Sacred Heart comes a close second, they generally push almost any combo into ludicrous mode. Plus I always confuse Brimstone and Lord of the Pit 
|
|
#
?
Jan 27, 2015 01:42
|
|
|
I like Brimstone if just for the hilarity that is getting Ludo Technique or Orbital Tears.
|
|
#
?
Jan 27, 2015 01:57
|
|
|
I like scythes the best because of the way it multiplies the size of your tears. It's one of the easiest routes to screen-filling tears and hilarity. It's also just a really powerful item. It gives you penetration, tear size up, and significant damage up all in one thing. It also doesn't break any synergies the way that Mom's Knife or Brimstone do.
|
|
#
?
Jan 27, 2015 02:05
|
|
|
Vic Boss posted:Azazel is life. Mom's knife slightly edges out brimestone for me, mainly because it's usually faster to use, and the *2 damage when used as a melee weapon. That said, the two of them together is the best.
|
|
#
?
Jan 27, 2015 02:30
|
|
|
ErIog posted:
This is actually a sign of delusion, masochism, and a loss of one's mental faculties.
|
|
#
?
Jan 27, 2015 02:53
|
|
|
Tammy's head with homing brimstone + mom's knife is hugely disappointing. It just does the mom's knife effect, which is terrible with tammy's head.
|
|
#
?
Jan 27, 2015 03:33
|
|
|
Catmode + Brimstone = lots of flies Catmode + Knife = no flies I don't even like knife+brim if I have a chance at cat.
|
|
#
?
Jan 27, 2015 03:56
|
|
|
God loving damnit. Blew an otherwise promising Eve run because a room containing two of the posthumous Mega Fattie bosses in the Dark Chest cost me too many hearts to survive the Lamb's bullet hell crap. 'Twas not meant to be, Black Lipstick. 
|
|
#
?
Jan 27, 2015 04:51
|
|
|
I didn't think that triple Adversary rooms actually existed. I learned that the hard way. How are you supposed to deal with that?
|
|
#
?
Jan 27, 2015 05:13
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 19, 2024 19:37 |
|
|
Kill them quickly, teleport out, run wildly around until they all are dead.
|
|
#
?
Jan 27, 2015 05:16
|
|