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Lord Dudeguy posted:Yeah a 10% bump for $250 (A10-7800 & FM2+ miniATX mobo) probably won't fit the bill. I'll wait for the 8000s. Hopefully they still make a 65w TDP version. You could also pick up a Pentium G3258 and a motherboard bundled together for around $100. That buys you an enormous bump in single-core performance (~63%) and it will likely tie even on highly threaded workloads. Toss in an overclock of up to 50% and the numbers get even more stark. Plus, after this $100 you've got an upgrade path with a manufacturer that isn't circling the drain. At some future point you could pick up a Haswell i5 or i7 pretty easily. A $100 G3258 destroys anything AMD has to offer in single-core performance, and you have to start talking about a very hefty, very expensive, high-TDP processor on a very hefty, very expensive motherboard (990 chipset to handle the TDP) with lots of cooling before AMD can compete even on threading-friendly workloads, in which case you're looking at like $300 to even compete with the "budget" processor. And I'm talking about AM3+ here - FM2 is just outclassed period. Step up to an equivalent $300 worth of Intel kit and AMD is trashed again. People have slung around phrases like "hating AMD" - I ran their processors for something like 20 years, starting with a K6-2 450, my second system runs a Phenom II, I literally just built a Kabini system as a low-power always-on server - but right now you are literally wasting money buying an AMD except for extremely narrow use-cases. If Intel's J1900 did AES-NI I probably wouldn't have bought the Kabini. Paul MaudDib fucked around with this message at 03:05 on Jan 4, 2015 |
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Jan 4, 2015 02:38
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Paul MaudDib posted:You could also pick up a Pentium G3258 and a motherboard bundled together for around $100. That buys you an enormous bump in single-core performance (~63%) and it will likely tie even on highly threaded workloads. Toss in an overclock of up to 50% and the numbers get even more stark. Plus, after this $100 you've got an upgrade path with a manufacturer that isn't circling the drain. At some future point you could pick up a Haswell i5 or i7 pretty easily. How does it compare on IGP performance? That's the key to this whole puzzle, and why I haven't switched to Intel. I'm running my APU in a low-clearance, 150w chassis and 720p gaming is a must.
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Jan 4, 2015 03:35
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With the current generation of games I think you're going to have to face the fact it's dGPU (and a fast CPU) or bust.
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Jan 4, 2015 03:55
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Lord Dudeguy posted:How does it compare on IGP performance? That's the key to this whole puzzle, and why I haven't switched to Intel. I'm running my APU in a low-clearance, 150w chassis and 720p gaming is a must. The Pentium G3258 has an Intel HD 4600, the A10 5700 has a Radeon HD 7660D. According to this site, the topline "conslusion" [sic] is that the Radeon is ~10% faster. Define "low clearance" - do you mean "not possible to mount a GPU at all", or just "fullsize cards won't fit"? I think gaming at 720p is probably problematic, your current rig has got to be running low settings and not hitting 60fps. Even a cheap media PC GPU is probably going to outperform onboard, and your money is way better off sitting in a discrete card. $150 of gpu buys you a R9 280, which is going to be capable of doing high settings at 1080p . Could you swing building a larger PC (capable of mounting a GPU) and doing in-home streaming to a media PC, possibly? You don't need a lot of power to render a display... Paul MaudDib fucked around with this message at 04:05 on Jan 4, 2015 |
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Jan 4, 2015 04:01
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Paul MaudDib posted:Define "low clearance" - do you mean "not possible to mount a GPU at all", or just "fullsize cards won't fit"? The case is only 4" tall. Only half-height cards will fit. Then there's the wattage limit. Paul MaudDib posted:Could you swing building a larger PC (capable of mounting a GPU) and doing in-home streaming to a media PC, possibly? You don't need a lot of power to render a display... Unfortunately, building a brand new rig is not an option. Lord Dudeguy fucked around with this message at 04:09 on Jan 4, 2015 |
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Jan 4, 2015 04:05
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Lord Dudeguy posted:The case is only 4" tall. Only half-height cards will fit. Then there's the wattage limit. Just get something like a low profile GTX750 then. Vastly better than anything integrated, and very low power use.
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Jan 4, 2015 04:08
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Lord Dudeguy posted:The case is only 4" tall. Only half-height cards will fit. Then there's the wattage limit. Half-height is doable. I have one of these in one of my PCs, picked it up for $10 AR. A modern equivalent might be something like a GTX 750 (NVIDIA products are usually more power efficient than their AMD equivalent). Could you swing another 65 watts (bearing in mind that a good chunk of your CPU TDP is invested in the GPU and will go inactive once you have a discrete card)? e: Radeon 7750 is down around 45W TDP, at ~50% performance loss. Paul MaudDib fucked around with this message at 04:13 on Jan 4, 2015 |
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Jan 4, 2015 04:08
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Paul MaudDib posted:Could you swing another 65 watts (bearing in mind that a good chunk of your CPU TDP is invested in the GPU and will go inactive once you have a discrete card)? I think the PSU is custom to the case. I'm not mechanically savvy enough to start modding a bigger PSU into it. The PicoPSUs don't look to meet the 400w requirement of the 750.
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Jan 4, 2015 04:13
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Lord Dudeguy posted:I think the PSU is custom to the case. I'm not mechanically savvy enough to start modding a bigger PSU into it. The PicoPSUs don't look to meet the 400w requirement of the 750. GPU recommendations are usually system totals, and generous ones at that. The actual measurement is (CPU idle, GPU full load) - (CPU idle, GPU idle), and the 750 works out around 65 watts. The question is how much the rest of your system draws. Also you can buy PicoPSUs up to 160W continuous (200W peak). When you're dealing with a tiny power supply, you want to play games, you want to run HD resolution, you want playable FPS, and you can't stream from a better PC - there's not going to be 50% extra wattage as a safety margin, you're going to have to load things up to the rated limits. Paul MaudDib fucked around with this message at 04:25 on Jan 4, 2015 |
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Jan 4, 2015 04:16
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Lord Dudeguy posted:The case is only 4" tall. Only half-height cards will fit. Then there's the wattage limit. Half height single slot 750ti. An order of magnitude faster than any iGPU and you don't have to hamstring yourself on the CPU side with an APU.
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Jan 4, 2015 04:16
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Thanks, folks! Plenty to think about now.
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Jan 4, 2015 04:19
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Paul MaudDib posted:The Pentium G3258 has an Intel HD 4600
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Jan 4, 2015 04:27
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Flipperwaldt posted:It does? I'm seeing "Intel® HD Graphics" everywhere, which isn't the same thing, as far as I understand. Yeah its the most basic Haswell version which IIRC is about equivalent to an HD3000 - definitely needs pairing with a proper GPU
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Jan 4, 2015 04:40
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Lord Dudeguy posted:How does it compare on IGP performance? That's the key to this whole puzzle, and why I haven't switched to Intel. I'm running my APU in a low-clearance, 150w chassis and 720p gaming is a must. You can buy a decent case and a decent PSU for about $80, then add in a discreet GPU when you can.
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Jan 4, 2015 06:20
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BurritoJustice posted:Half height single slot 750ti. Jesus gently caress, I have been looking this form factor 750 Ti for months. I'mma grab this and a low-profile bracket and then give this 965 BE I'm on away as an HTPC. Thank you for the link. SwissArmyDruid fucked around with this message at 06:39 on Jan 4, 2015 |
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Jan 4, 2015 06:36
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Lord Dudeguy posted:I think the PSU is custom to the case. I'm not mechanically savvy enough to start modding a bigger PSU into it. The PicoPSUs don't look to meet the 400w requirement of the 750. It should still be enough for any card that takes power from the PCIe bus(max 75 W) as said before. If your current mobo has PCIe slot then you can add a GTX 750 to your current config. A10-5700 seems to be 65W cpu and if you disable the iGPU that saves some power too.
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Jan 4, 2015 07:01
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SwissArmyDruid posted:Jesus gently caress, I have been looking this form factor 750 Ti for months. I'mma grab this and a low-profile bracket and then give this 965 BE I'm on away as an HTPC. Thank you for the link. Noo don't. It's double slot. I have one that's uselessly sitting in my trunk for making that mistake.
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Jan 8, 2015 01:05
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Lolcano Eruption posted:Noo don't. It's double slot. I have one that's uselessly sitting in my trunk for making that mistake. No, it's fine, the case I'm going to buy is for mATX boards, and has multiple expansion card slots. I'll just need to get a low-profile bracket if it's not included. They can try to hide it with the end-on shot with the cooler removed on their website, but I have been building computers for too long to not immediately intuit that it needs two slots for the heatsink. Hmm. Maybe I could take that card off your hands for you? Hit me up in PMs, and we'll hash it out there.
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Jan 8, 2015 06:35
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The new APU for 2015 is codenamed "Carrizo" and AMD has no plans to offer it as a socketed chip. So, it sounds like Socket FM2+ is dead and AMD has 100% ceded the desktop market to Intel.
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Jan 11, 2015 01:29
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Rastor posted:The new APU for 2015 is codenamed "Carrizo" and AMD has no plans to offer it as a socketed chip. So, it sounds like Socket FM2+ is dead and AMD has 100% ceded the desktop market to Intel. Intel's gonna end up taking over the integrated GPU market on the desktop with Broadwell-K it looks like, leaving literally no reason to own an AMD CPU on a desktop. I still have my Athlon XP and Athlon X2 systems sitting in boxes in a closet, the good old days when AMD was actually worth buying.
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Jan 11, 2015 01:51
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Rastor posted:The new APU for 2015 is codenamed "Carrizo" and AMD has no plans to offer it as a socketed chip. So, it sounds like Socket FM2+ is dead and AMD has 100% ceded the desktop market to Intel. Why would AMD fab a bunch of chips that no one is going to buy? Something else this article fails to mention is that broadwell-u doesn't have a socketed alternative as far as I know.
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Jan 11, 2015 13:49
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They're gonna put Carrizo in some slim and SFF desktops so they haven't totally abandoned the desktop market but yea no socketed version and performance still won't be on par with Haswell much less Skylake. Not good at all. They better hope they do reasonably well in the cheap laptop market. Either way it'll be a looong way until Zen and their new x86 arch. comes out. Early-mid 2016 is the expected launch date I think for their new ARM arch. Haven't seen much info. about the new high end x86 arch. they're developing. They should both be platform compatible so if AMD isn't fudging things then you can plug either of them into the same motherboard so long as the sockets match up.
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Jan 11, 2015 14:04
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Beautiful Ninja posted:Intel's gonna end up taking over the integrated GPU market on the desktop with Broadwell-K it looks like, leaving literally no reason to own an AMD CPU on a desktop. I still have my Athlon XP and Athlon X2 systems sitting in boxes in a closet, the good old days when AMD was actually worth buying. Yeah, I have my old Athlon T-Bird and Athlon X2 64 3800+ computers in storage; they still run just fine. My Plex Media Server will continue to run on my Phenom II X4 840 until that eventually gives out. Been using AMD parts every since I started building PCs. The switch to Intel was hard maaaan. I want you to get better AMD. Stop sucking so I can at least use you in another HTPC 
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Jan 11, 2015 15:46
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keyvin posted:Why would AMD fab a bunch of chips that no one is going to buy? A better question: why is AMD only realizing just now that this is a bad strategy?
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Jan 11, 2015 22:42
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All I can say is we should wait to see how AMD's efforts at integrating HBM as a combination L3 cache/VRAM memory works out. Once we see where that goes, that will probably dictate their entire lineup going forward, for both APUs and x86.
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Jan 12, 2015 04:34
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Today it was revealed that three of AMD's executives have left the company.
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Jan 13, 2015 02:57
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Rastor posted:Today it was revealed that three of AMD's executives have left the company. First tech death of the year?
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Jan 13, 2015 04:09
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GPUs and the eighth-gen console contracts will keep them doddering on for a while, but if they can't do anything interesting in the meantime (and since Phenom II is still relevant in AMD land at the venerable age of seven (eight?)) they could be headed to wrap it up land.
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Jan 13, 2015 04:17
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They put out an expectations management piece talking about how silly it would be to try to compete with Intel in PCs when PCs are a stupid no-good medium anyway and I felt about halfway in agreement and halfway sad to see 'em go. I hope they'll be successful in the next steps but I wonder what is going to happen now.
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Jan 13, 2015 04:23
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But AMD is a starfish and Intel is a whale so they'll do fine
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Jan 13, 2015 05:38
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They can always pull a McAurthor if they stumble on something good from competing in other areas. Using military analogies, its better than a last stand.
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Jan 13, 2015 11:03
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keyvin posted:First tech death of the year? All three are more from the sales, business side of the company rather than execs with significant technical expertise from the looks of things.
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Jan 13, 2015 12:16
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The usual WCCFT caveats apply, but the fact that AMD is funneling more money towards high-performance R&D is a good sign. http://wccftech.com/amd-earnings-call/
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Jan 23, 2015 09:00
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Hmm, I think WCCFT is making a super gigantic leap there from the actual quote ("enterprise, embedded and semi-custom ... server ... x86 and ARM-based leadership products") to "high-performance" / "enthusiast" parts. AMD has repeatedly been saying lately that they see their opportunities as being in the performance/watt category and I would expect any goals of "leadership products" to be in that category, not the "benchmark king" category.
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Jan 23, 2015 16:17
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Rastor posted:Hmm, I think WCCFT is making a super gigantic leap there from the actual quote ("enterprise, embedded and semi-custom ... server ... x86 and ARM-based leadership products") to "high-performance" / "enthusiast" parts. AMD has repeatedly been saying lately that they see their opportunities as being in the performance/watt category and I would expect any goals of "leadership products" to be in that category, not the "benchmark king" category. I *did* say that the usual WCCFT caveats apply, didn't I? =P That said, you have to consider what Intel does with their parts. They have a high-end server line, (read: enterprise) whose parts they bring down to the desktop in the form of chipsets that end in 8 or 9. That's why those latest enthusiast i7s have loving absurd amounts of cache, and no integrated graphics, because they're actually server parts that can't be sold as server parts because they run too hot to be stuck inside a 1U case or something. They still cost a goddamn arm, leg and a spleen, though. Then they also have their mobile parts line, (read: performance/watt) where if it doesn't run cool enough to be put into a laptop or tablet, again, they push it "up" to desktop, because desktop can accommodate better cooling, with the chipsets going up to 7. You think it's a coincidence that their desktop parts run with as low a TDP as they do? That just because Intel reserves their best process tech for themselves that's why they're always ahead in everything? Well, you're not entirely wrong, but even they have some chips that shake out of the binning process. They run too hot to be stuck inside a laptop, but if you slap a big air cooler or closed-loop AIO onto it, it'll be happier than a pig in mud. That's the genius of Intel's strategy, and if AMD is starting to follow suit, by targeting these two markets and dumping the parts that don't quite cut it into desktop (read: high performance/enthusiast), we could do a lot worse. SwissArmyDruid fucked around with this message at 05:32 on Jan 24, 2015 |
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Jan 23, 2015 18:05
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For those talking about antitrust, consider the XM/Sirius merger. Defining the market as "satellite radio", they would have 100% market share combined. Anticompetitive! Defining the market as "audio entertainment", including radio, internet streaming, mobile phone mp3 players, podcasts, and CDs? Lots of alternatives. So if AMD exited the desktop space entirely, there would be a sole company left in that segment. But when you look at it from the perspective of all silicon, not that big of a deal. No company wants to be sole-sourced, and the threat of new entrants or of substitute products adds some pressure for a company to treat their customers well.
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Jan 23, 2015 21:33
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We've got our first Zen uarch rumors. Assuming this is true: 14nm FinFET (that's probably Samsung's process), FM3 socket, DDR4 controller on-chip. PCIe controller at rev 3.0, and moving on-chip, so the northbridge is done on AMD, too. Up to 8 cores in 95W. No word on graphics. Uarch details are light except for a rumor that it's moving from Module-based, Bulldozer-ish clustered multithreading to symmetric multithreading on unitary cores, like Intel does with Hyperthreading.
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Jan 27, 2015 01:31
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Factory Factory posted:We've got our first Zen uarch rumors. Argh, and no word if HBM is going to make its way on there as a jumbo L3 cache or anything!
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Jan 27, 2015 02:56
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SwissArmyDruid posted:Argh, and no word if HBM is going to make its way on there as a jumbo L3 cache or anything! That'd be amazing for an APU, a nice large buffer to use before hitting up the system RAM.
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Jan 27, 2015 10:51
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Factory Factory posted:We've got our first Zen uarch rumors. "up to 8 cores" - if they go in a consumer craptop, will most software be able to make use of that computing power, or will we see processors good for very specific circumstances but bad for general purpose laptops?
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Jan 27, 2015 21:11
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I CANNOT EJACULATE WITHOUT SEEING NATIVE AMERICANS BRUTALISED!