The HTPC Thread - Dont buy an HTPC - The Something Awful Forums

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Super-NintendoUser: Jan 16, 2004; COWABUNGERDER COMPADRES; Soiled Meat

5436 posted:

I have the Intel� Dual Band Wireless-AC 7260 in my NUC. It should just work over bluetooth with Windows 8.1 Pro right? I was checking NYC craigslist, everyone sells console + controller. $40 seems outrageous to get a new one, I'll check the mart.

Xbox controller is not bluetooth. It's RF. It requires the adapter. The PS4 controller is bluetooth, but I have no idea how well it works with Windows. I'm sure there's some cludgy app you have to install. The Xbox controller, with that wireless adapter, works perfectly in windows, it shows up as a regular gamepad and everything. It's 100% the easiest and most reliable option.

# ? Jan 18, 2015 20:55

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# ? May 9, 2024 19:11

Medullah: Aug 14, 2003; FEAR MY SHARK ROCKET IT REALLY SUCKS AND BLOWS

Right now the Xbox 360 wired controller is on sale for $25.

# ? Jan 18, 2015 21:02

Demonachizer: Aug 7, 2004

This is sort of related to HTPC I think (at least tangentially). I have a pretty nice A/V receiver at my house and I can stream audio to it from any of my computers using the "play to" context menu if the audio file is associated with Windows Media Player. I am wondering if there is a way to have similar functionality with video as well as audio from any source. Essentially I would like to be able to stream the desktop of any machine in my house to my A/V receiver. I know that the Marantz can do audio fine but will not do video so I am thinking that there might be an appliance that I can put on my network with an HDMI out that I can hook up to my receiver and stream the desktop to it. I know that I will miss out on things like controlling the volume and the power on functions from my PCs but at least I could easily watch video sourced from any of my devices. I currently use an HDMI cable running from a machine a floor below the receiver but it is somewhat cumbersome and I have to use a keyboard/mouse to interact with it.

I think that you can use a chromecast device but you have to download a plugin that only works to stream a tab of chrome to it which is OK but a full desktop solution and one that can do full HD would be better (chromecast solution is 720p max).

I could use a small purpose built machine to VNC into machines into my house to pull from and continue to use one of those small keyboard/touchpad combos but that isn't optimal and a push would be better.

# ? Jan 18, 2015 21:08

Medullah: Aug 14, 2003; FEAR MY SHARK ROCKET IT REALLY SUCKS AND BLOWS

Demonachizer posted:

This is sort of related to HTPC I think (at least tangentially). I have a pretty nice A/V receiver at my house and I can stream audio to it from any of my computers using the "play to" context menu if the audio file is associated with Windows Media Player. I am wondering if there is a way to have similar functionality with video as well as audio from any source. Essentially I would like to be able to stream the desktop of any machine in my house to my A/V receiver. I know that the Marantz can do audio fine but will not do video so I am thinking that there might be an appliance that I can put on my network with an HDMI out that I can hook up to my receiver and stream the desktop to it. I know that I will miss out on things like controlling the volume and the power on functions from my PCs but at least I could easily watch video sourced from any of my devices. I currently use an HDMI cable running from a machine a floor below the receiver but it is somewhat cumbersome and I have to use a keyboard/mouse to interact with it.

I think that you can use a chromecast device but you have to download a plugin that only works to stream a tab of chrome to it which is OK but a full desktop solution and one that can do full HD would be better (chromecast solution is 720p max).

I could use a small purpose built machine to VNC into machines into my house to pull from and continue to use one of those small keyboard/touchpad combos but that isn't optimal and a push would be better.

What are you trying to stream? You can set up Plex if you're trying to stream videos to a Chromecast.

# ? Jan 18, 2015 21:10

Super-NintendoUser: Jan 16, 2004; COWABUNGERDER COMPADRES; Soiled Meat

Demonachizer posted:

This is sort of related to HTPC I think (at least tangentially). I have a pretty nice A/V receiver at my house and I can stream audio to it from any of my computers using the "play to" context menu if the audio file is associated with Windows Media Player. I am wondering if there is a way to have similar functionality with video as well as audio from any source. Essentially I would like to be able to stream the desktop of any machine in my house to my A/V receiver. I know that the Marantz can do audio fine but will not do video so I am thinking that there might be an appliance that I can put on my network with an HDMI out that I can hook up to my receiver and stream the desktop to it. I know that I will miss out on things like controlling the volume and the power on functions from my PCs but at least I could easily watch video sourced from any of my devices. I currently use an HDMI cable running from a machine a floor below the receiver but it is somewhat cumbersome and I have to use a keyboard/mouse to interact with it.

I think that you can use a chromecast device but you have to download a plugin that only works to stream a tab of chrome to it which is OK but a full desktop solution and one that can do full HD would be better (chromecast solution is 720p max).

I could use a small purpose built machine to VNC into machines into my house to pull from and continue to use one of those small keyboard/touchpad combos but that isn't optimal and a push would be better.

LIkely the receiver is a DNLA compatible device. I've never heard of a remote desktop over DNLA solution. You cold do this with an Apple TV and a Mac, though. You can use an Apple TV as a second monitor for a Mac, so you could just plug the Apple TV into one of the HDMI inputs on the receiver. If you have Windows, I don't know what the best option is. However, VNC, Teamviewer, or any other RDP solution would be way to slow to play video.

# ? Jan 18, 2015 21:12

Demonachizer: Aug 7, 2004

Medullah posted:

What are you trying to stream? You can set up Plex if you're trying to stream videos to a Chromecast.

Trying to stream my desktop from any of the machines in my house. It seems versatile to do it that way but maybe I am mistaken. I will look into Plex.

SIR FAT JONY IVES posted:

LIkely the receiver is a DNLA compatible device. I've never heard of a remote desktop over DNLA solution. You cold do this with an Apple TV and a Mac, though. You can use an Apple TV as a second monitor for a Mac, so you could just plug the Apple TV into one of the HDMI inputs on the receiver. If you have Windows, I don't know what the best option is. However, VNC, Teamviewer, or any other RDP solution would be way to slow to play video.

If I am not mistaken no Marantz receiver does DLNA video but can do audio fine. This seems to jive with all the things I tried. I don't mind adding an appliance that does HDMI out to the receiver even though it loses some of the functionality of the audio streaming like I mentioned before.

Unfortunately there are no apple products here so an Apple TV scenario is probably dead in the water without a lot of investment and changes that I wouldn't be willing to make.

---

I keep most of my media on a NAS so maybe my best bet is to just give up on the idea of streaming to my TV setup and just getting an HTPC and pulling from the NAS and using a keyboard/mouse remote. I just had this dream of being able to have one of my laptops push the video. It is probably stupid though.

Demonachizer fucked around with this message at 22:10 on Jan 18, 2015

# ? Jan 18, 2015 22:03

ZHamburglar: Aug 24, 2006; I have a penis.

Ok I need some advice on options as far as my HTPC. Right now I've maxed out all of the 3.5" slots in my case and all of the SATA slots on my motherboard. I'm getting close to maxing out my 12TB storage on my Plex and torrent machine. I want to know what the best option is to add more storage into the system so I can keep adding files onto the server.

# ? Jan 19, 2015 03:28

Don Lapre: Mar 28, 2001; If you're having problems you're either holding the phone wrong or you have tiny girl hands.

Buy larger hard drives. Seagate has 8tb drives available.

# ? Jan 19, 2015 03:29

Ray Finkle: Aug 28, 2008

Demonachizer posted:

I think that you can use a chromecast device but you have to download a plugin that only works to stream a tab of chrome to it which is OK but a full desktop solution and one that can do full HD would be better (chromecast solution is 720p max).

Chromecast recently upped the resolution for tab streaming to 1080p, and you are also not limited to streaming what's in the tab. Chrome will stream the desktop if you want.

I also use BubbleUPnP on my android phone to play audio/video from my NAS on my chromecast and it works pretty well.

# ? Jan 19, 2015 05:42

Chilled Milk: Jun 22, 2003; No one here is alone,
satellites in every home

SIR FAT JONY IVES posted:

Xbox controller is not bluetooth. It's RF. It requires the adapter. The PS4 controller is bluetooth, but I have no idea how well it works with Windows. I'm sure there's some cludgy app you have to install. The Xbox controller, with that wireless adapter, works perfectly in windows, it shows up as a regular gamepad and everything. It's 100% the easiest and most reliable option.

The latest incarnation of the DS4 tool works pretty well. It's still an extra layer but it's a lot less painful than it used to be. 360 is the easiest option but the D-Pad, even in the revision, is nearly unusable, making it a bad choice for ROMs/retro stuff. If they ever released an adapter for the xbone controller that would be closer to ideal but microsoft is too lovely and uncoordinated for that to happen at the moment

# ? Jan 19, 2015 22:24

5436: Jul 11, 2003; by astral

The Milkman posted:

The latest incarnation of the DS4 tool works pretty well. It's still an extra layer but it's a lot less painful than it used to be. 360 is the easiest option but the D-Pad, even in the revision, is nearly unusable, making it a bad choice for ROMs/retro stuff. If they ever released an adapter for the xbone controller that would be closer to ideal but microsoft is too lovely and uncoordinated for that to happen at the moment

So its not good for Super Smash Melee?

# ? Jan 20, 2015 03:17

Chilled Milk: Jun 22, 2003; No one here is alone,
satellites in every home

5436 posted:

So its not good for Super Smash Melee?

That'd be okay if you can find a button mapping you like since it originally used a thumbstick. It's more SNES and older that's an issue.

# ? Jan 20, 2015 05:05

5436: Jul 11, 2003; by astral

The Milkman posted:

That'd be okay if you can find a button mapping you like since it originally used a thumbstick. It's more SNES and older that's an issue.

Whats good for those? I plan on Super Mario World, Mario 3, Super Smash Melee, and a few others in that time line.

# ? Jan 21, 2015 02:41

UncleGuito: May 8, 2005; www.ipadbackdrops.com daily wallpaper updates deserving of your iPad

Why do my video files look so much better when streamed via Chromecast than they do when played locally on HDMI output of the HTPC (via Plex HT, VLC, etc)?

# ? Jan 21, 2015 04:56

Factory Factory: Mar 19, 2010; This is what
Arcane Velocity was like.

You might have the graphics settings set incorrectly. Some graphics drivers assume that an HDMI hookup will have overscan and might set some bizarre thing like 1700x950 resolution to make sure everything fits, then the TV resizes that to create a "1080p" image. This is pretty common on AMD boxes but happens with other GPU vendors, too. Adjusting overscan settings on your graphics drivers and TV, plus setting the correct resolution, would fix that problem.

# ? Jan 21, 2015 16:16

UncleGuito: May 8, 2005; www.ipadbackdrops.com daily wallpaper updates deserving of your iPad

Factory Factory posted:

You might have the graphics settings set incorrectly. Some graphics drivers assume that an HDMI hookup will have overscan and might set some bizarre thing like 1700x950 resolution to make sure everything fits, then the TV resizes that to create a "1080p" image. This is pretty common on AMD boxes but happens with other GPU vendors, too. Adjusting overscan settings on your graphics drivers and TV, plus setting the correct resolution, would fix that problem.

Thanks! Looks like AMD CCC had a bunch of crap enabled that was messing it up. In Plex HT, should I enable stuff like "adjust display refresh rate to mach video" & "sync playback to display?"

Also, for some reason when I play video straight from my Plex HT instead of Plex streaming via Chromecast, my center channel audio is much more quiet. I'm assuming because it's playing in true PCM but I definitely have to crank my audio up a lot more than other inputs to get the center at a reasonable level. Any ways to tackle that?

# ? Jan 24, 2015 05:05

Horn: Jun 18, 2004; Penetration is the key to success; College Slice

Does anyone have a recommendation for a launcher? I'm looking for something that is easily control by remote that let's me launch XBMC, steam, emulators with ease. I have an app switcher right now that is programmed to come up when I press a button on my remote but it's really janky and a pain to setup.

# ? Jan 27, 2015 15:23

Medullah: Aug 14, 2003; FEAR MY SHARK ROCKET IT REALLY SUCKS AND BLOWS

Horn posted:

Does anyone have a recommendation for a launcher? I'm looking for something that is easily control by remote that let's me launch XBMC, steam, emulators with ease. I have an app switcher right now that is programmed to come up when I press a button on my remote but it's really janky and a pain to setup.

Having a "one launcher to rule them all" is going to be a bit tough, but for emulators i use GameEx and it's fantastic for a HTPC

# ? Jan 27, 2015 15:50

Uthor: Jul 9, 2006; Gummy Bear Heaven ... It's where I go when the world is too mean.

I've been able to cobble together a system where I can launch Steam into big picture mode from XBMC, then come back to XBMC when I shut Steam down. You can also have emulators launch from XBMC, but I haven't found a way to gracefully shut them down and go back to XBMC.

It's been a while since I had that set up, so I'd have to look around a bit for the exact info.

# ? Jan 27, 2015 16:04

The Gunslinger: Jul 24, 2004; Do not forget the face of your father.; Fun Shoe

I found that Steam Big Picture Mode actually works really well as a launcher if you're running Windows, just add stuff as non-Steam game shortcuts. You can also do the opposite using the SteamLauncher addon and just use XBMC as a launcher. Last time I played around with it I had no problems launching/exitting XBMC and for emulators I was using EmulationStation with RetroArch (warning a lot of annoying work). You get the odd command prompt window that shows in between launching but it goes away quickly. I haven't checked out GameEx but it looks pretty cool and you could probably do the same thing. If you're using a remote just make sure you have a button dedicated to alt tab for the usual Windows fuckery where something grabs focus or etc.

Integrating streaming poo poo is harder, Netflix/etc require some work to get working properly with a remote in Windows and is kinda janky. I would just leave that poo poo to a FireTV (which can also run XBMC if you want).

# ? Jan 27, 2015 16:12

Don Lapre: Mar 28, 2001; If you're having problems you're either holding the phone wrong or you have tiny girl hands.

There is a xbmc addon that launches steam that works fine.

# ? Jan 27, 2015 16:19

berzerkmonkey: Jul 23, 2003

My nt-A3500 died - it wouldn't boot to Windows without a BSOD, so I rebuilt it, updated all of the drivers, ran memory tests and tests on the SSD, and I still received BSODs. Windows Memory Diagnostic Tool showed that I've got a memory error.

At any rate, the unit has always been buggy with XBMC - I would leave it on, and sometimes it wouldn't go to sleep. Sometimes it would sleep but not wake up. Sometimes, XBMC would just hang and I would have to do a hard reboot (possibly causing my memory failure?) So I'm kind of ready for a change.

I don't want or need a high-end HTPC. I'm looking for something that can do Amazon Prime, Netflix (I don't use it, but I would like the option,) MAME and emulator support (NES, SNES, Genesis, GBA, TurboGrafix16 mostly,) and streaming of my media collection (XBMC/Kodi or equivalent.)

I don't want to spend a mint, but I don't want a laggy, buggy half-assed solution either. Would an Amazon Fire TV fit the bill?

# ? Jan 30, 2015 20:39

Medullah: Aug 14, 2003; FEAR MY SHARK ROCKET IT REALLY SUCKS AND BLOWS

berzerkmonkey posted:

My nt-A3500 died - it wouldn't boot to Windows without a BSOD, so I rebuilt it, updated all of the drivers, ran memory tests and tests on the SSD, and I still received BSODs. Windows Memory Diagnostic Tool showed that I've got a memory error.

At any rate, the unit has always been buggy with XBMC - I would leave it on, and sometimes it wouldn't go to sleep. Sometimes it would sleep but not wake up. Sometimes, XBMC would just hang and I would have to do a hard reboot (possibly causing my memory failure?) So I'm kind of ready for a change.

I don't want or need a high-end HTPC. I'm looking for something that can do Amazon Prime, Netflix (I don't use it, but I would like the option,) MAME and emulator support (NES, SNES, Genesis, GBA, TurboGrafix16 mostly,) and streaming of my media collection (XBMC/Kodi or equivalent.)

I don't want to spend a mint, but I don't want a laggy, buggy half-assed solution either. Would an Amazon Fire TV fit the bill?

A lot of those errors could be caused by bad memory...you might want to just swap out the memory and see how it runs, would be cheaper than buying a whole new system.

# ? Jan 30, 2015 20:53

berzerkmonkey: Jul 23, 2003

Medullah posted:

A lot of those errors could be caused by bad memory...you might want to just swap out the memory and see how it runs, would be cheaper than buying a whole new system.

I just put in an RMA for it, so hopefully GSkill will stand by their Lifetime Warranty. That being said, I'm still looking at the Fire TV as an alternative, as long as it will do everything I want.

# ? Jan 30, 2015 21:03

Don Lapre: Mar 28, 2001; If you're having problems you're either holding the phone wrong or you have tiny girl hands.

berzerkmonkey posted:

I just put in an RMA for it, so hopefully GSkill will stand by their Lifetime Warranty. That being said, I'm still looking at the Fire TV as an alternative, as long as it will do everything I want.

They have a lifetime warranty, they just ask you to pay shipping and handling, which just happens to be the same price as the ram.. Its the ginzu knife model

# ? Jan 30, 2015 21:19

berzerkmonkey: Jul 23, 2003

Don Lapre posted:

They have a lifetime warranty, they just ask you to pay shipping and handling, which just happens to be the same price as the ram.. Its the ginzu knife model

And if I'm going to spend $35 to do it, I'd rather investigate alternatives that I'd be happier with.

# ? Jan 30, 2015 21:32

Gozinbulx: Feb 19, 2004

Fire TV should be able to handle all that. Put your emus in as shortcuts in xbmc so you don't have to go to settings > apps> all apps in the fire TV menu each time you want to play.

You're only issue with emus on fire TV is storage for your ROMs. On my android boxes I just have a flash drive with them all, but the fire TV can only handle external storage if its rooted (good luck finding one that's rootable). The goto solution for more "storage" on fire TV is to sideload es file explorer and read stuff off of a networked share on another computer. A fine solution but I don't think I've ever actually seen an emu that can surf to network storage. Off the top of my head, I think your best bet is to navigate to the network share with all your roms through es file explorer, then just click it (as in to open it) and then when it asks what program to handle it, hopefully your emu of choice is in the list. Then es will basically download the file to its temp cache and then launch it as a local file. Make sure to put the setting "clear cache on exit" so your local storage doesn't get full.

# ? Jan 31, 2015 15:56

berzerkmonkey: Jul 23, 2003

Gozinbulx posted:

Fire TV should be able to handle all that. Put your emus in as shortcuts in xbmc so you don't have to go to settings > apps> all apps in the fire TV menu each time you want to play.

You're only issue with emus on fire TV is storage for your ROMs. On my android boxes I just have a flash drive with them all, but the fire TV can only handle external storage if its rooted (good luck finding one that's rootable). The goto solution for more "storage" on fire TV is to sideload es file explorer and read stuff off of a networked share on another computer. A fine solution but I don't think I've ever actually seen an emu that can surf to network storage. Off the top of my head, I think your best bet is to navigate to the network share with all your roms through es file explorer, then just click it (as in to open it) and then when it asks what program to handle it, hopefully your emu of choice is in the list. Then es will basically download the file to its temp cache and then launch it as a local file. Make sure to put the setting "clear cache on exit" so your local storage doesn't get full.

Thanks for your input - I thought the Fire could handle a flash drive or other external drive. I'll have to look into the networked ROMs thing some more.

# ? Jan 31, 2015 22:57

Gozinbulx: Feb 19, 2004

berzerkmonkey posted:

Thanks for your input - I thought the Fire could handle a flash drive or other external drive. I'll have to look into the networked ROMs thing some more.

It can, but only when rooted.

# ? Feb 1, 2015 07:51

SurgicalOntologist: Jun 17, 2004

I think this question is appropriate here, if not let me know. I've been using a setup consisting of OpenELEC on a ZBox and a Seagate external. The Seagate just died, plus we struggled to keep space on it for a while, so I'm thinking of upgrading to a NAS. If I go that route, I'd want to stop the HTPC being always-on, which means offloading its always-on capabilities to the NAS. The question is, I'm not sure what capabilities that is exactly, basically whether I'll need to worry about processing power on the NAS or not.

The always-on stuff on the ZBox is just SickBeard, sabnzbd, rtorrent, and SubSonic media server. I'm not tied to any of those in particular as much as the functionality. I mostly use SubSonic for music. To stream video within the house, we would use Samba and play it directly. To stream outside of the house, we would usually connect remotely and copy it locally first. So... will I be fine with a NAS that's not fast enough to do video transcoding? Or will I regret it eventually?

Edit: or just pony up and get a NAS capable of running XBMC and completely replace the ZBox?

SurgicalOntologist fucked around with this message at 22:18 on Feb 1, 2015

# ? Feb 1, 2015 22:11

Namlemez: Jul 9, 2003

It depends on your client requirements. Lots of people install all of those or equivalents on their NAS (really, a scaled down Linux server). The only place you'd really run into trouble would be if your NAS had to do a lot of heavy-lifting (e.g. Plex transcoding) , but if all your clients are PCs that can read SMB, you're probably fine.

# ? Feb 1, 2015 23:29

SurgicalOntologist: Jun 17, 2004

Awesome, thanks. That's what I figured but it's good to confirm before spending money.

Although... what about par2? Can something like the DS414j handle that? (I guess I'm now veering toward questions better suited for the NAS thread)

SurgicalOntologist fucked around with this message at 23:53 on Feb 1, 2015

# ? Feb 1, 2015 23:49

Namlemez: Jul 9, 2003

SurgicalOntologist posted:

Awesome, thanks. That's what I figured but it's good to confirm before spending money.

Although... what about par2? Can something like the DS414j handle that? (I guess I'm now veering toward questions better suited for the NAS thread)

It depends on the NAS, some of them have regular Atom CPUs.

# ? Feb 2, 2015 00:21

Don Lapre: Mar 28, 2001; If you're having problems you're either holding the phone wrong or you have tiny girl hands.

SurgicalOntologist posted:

Awesome, thanks. That's what I figured but it's good to confirm before spending money.

Although... what about par2? Can something like the DS414j handle that? (I guess I'm now veering toward questions better suited for the NAS thread)

Yes, even the shittiest things can handle par2, what will change is how fast it decompresses and checks.

# ? Feb 2, 2015 02:56

Chikimiki: May 14, 2009

I think this question should go in this thread, if not feel free to correct me. I've recently begun playing around with HDMI-CEC but unfortunately it isn't working as well as I'd like: I'm using a Raspberry Pi as a HTPC on my Sony Bravia HDTV, and I can control it just fine with the TV remote, as long as I boot the Pi after starting the TV.
This isn't optimal however, as I like to keep the Pi running all the time (because of the long boot time and for some networked folders), and switching inputs on the TV (say, to my Chromecast) also breaks the CEC connection.

Is there any way to "save" the CEC connection between my TV and my Pi or am I SOL?

Thanks in advance goons!

# ? Feb 2, 2015 14:37

necrobobsledder: Mar 21, 2005; Lay down your soul to the gods rock 'n roll; Nap Ghost

The only such solution I have found for your problem (it's a common one when using AV receivers) is something like HDMI Detective, and it isn't cheap at $100+. http://www.gefen.com/kvm/ext-hdmi-edidp.jsp?prod_id=8005

# ? Feb 2, 2015 17:04

Don Lapre: Mar 28, 2001; If you're having problems you're either holding the phone wrong or you have tiny girl hands.

Id look into getting a flirc and stop fooling with cec

# ? Feb 2, 2015 20:53

Chikimiki: May 14, 2009

necrobobsledder posted:

The only such solution I have found for your problem (it's a common one when using AV receivers) is something like HDMI Detective, and it isn't cheap at $100+. http://www.gefen.com/kvm/ext-hdmi-edidp.jsp?prod_id=8005

Ouch, that's a steep price... Bummer, would have been nice to have an integrated solution.

Don Lapre posted:

Id look into getting a flirc and stop fooling with cec

Yeah that's what I figured, though I prefer not having so many remotes around so I've started using Yatse on my phone and it does the job rather well.

# ? Feb 3, 2015 11:00

Gozinbulx: Feb 19, 2004

Gozinbulx posted:

I ordered one, so I'll let you know. I'm actually envisioning it as a small workstation at my office, but I'll slap XBMC on there to check it out.

So quoting myself to say I finally recieved this (the Pipo X7 Windows miniPC). I haven't done much with it yet and my main intention is to use it as a small workstation/kiosk but I will do some other tests by request.

Any benchmark or anything someone would like to get a good idea of how well it works?

# ? Feb 5, 2015 18:10

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# ? May 9, 2024 19:11

Long Francesco: Jun 3, 2005

Whats the best, and cheapest, tv tuner card nowadays? I just want to be able to watch ota tv in hd and dvr stuff. the last time i messed with tuner cards all the software around was complete garbage so I hope that has changed.

# ? Feb 20, 2015 13:19

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Inspect Your Gadgets > The HTPC Thread - Dont buy an HTPC

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