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Archipelago is good right?
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Jan 27, 2015 13:06
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bowmore posted:Archipelago is good right? Only if you pronounce it "Arr kih peh LAH go".
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Jan 27, 2015 13:32
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You should call it 'The Chip' for short, like people call Agricola 'The Gric'.
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Jan 27, 2015 13:47
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bobvonunheil posted:You should call it 'The Chip' for short, like people call Agricola 'The Gric'. I read a news article recently where someone's last name was Agricola. My brain was so confused.
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Jan 27, 2015 15:50
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silvergoose posted:Only if you pronounce it "Arr kih peh LAH go". Arch-uh-pell-AH-go
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Jan 27, 2015 16:04
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I think it would be "the 'Pel"
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Jan 27, 2015 16:10
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fozzy fosbourne posted:I think it would be "the 'Pel" Slavery the game?
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Jan 27, 2015 16:23
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fozzy fosbourne posted:I know one of them is Claustrophobia, what's the other? Earth Reborn. A game with enough ideas for probably half a dozen great expansions that never went anywhere do to poor sales. The base game is still incredible (with a few caveats: long setup time, and in order to play SAGs you need dedicated players) I have also learned that I love the concept of Blood Bowl a lot, but league play is just a miserable loving mess and I never want to do it again. If I were a Cool Game Designer guy the second thing I would do after redoing Siege of the Citadel (one of the coolest games of all time; I'm continually surprised that FFG doesn't realize what a gold mine this is) is make a version of Blood Bowl that was good.
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Jan 27, 2015 16:25
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Indolent Bastard posted:Slavery the game? No, that's Freedom.
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Jan 27, 2015 16:27
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silvergoose posted:No, that's Freedom. 
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Jan 27, 2015 16:31
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Megaman's Jockstrap posted:If I were a Cool Game Designer guy the second thing I would do after redoing Siege of the Citadel (one of the coolest games of all time; I'm continually surprised that FFG doesn't realize what a gold mine this is) is make a version of Blood Bowl that was good. It's called Dreadball, you're welcome. Re: Earth Reborn - Christophe Boelinger is just a really good designer. Anyone who likes Chvatil should check out his stuff, then weep over how long they have wasted playing Mage Knight.
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Jan 27, 2015 16:43
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Jedit posted:It's called Dreadball, you're welcome. Jedit, you are frequently abrasive and condescending...but you have earned an ally this day.
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Jan 27, 2015 17:17
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Dreadball? That kickstarter-pandering miniatures game that ~mysteriously~ fell off the face of the planet never to get any mention in any kind of board game media again after the kickstarter ended?
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Jan 27, 2015 17:20
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Blood Bowl has also "fallen off the face of the planet", so I'm not quite sure what that means. Edit: reading further, the components of DreadBall are apparently dreadful (befitting, I guess) and it's already a hard sell to get new tac-mini games on my table, so I probably won't bother with this. But I still appreciate this getting on my radar. Megaman's Jockstrap fucked around with this message at 17:26 on Jan 27, 2015 |
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Jan 27, 2015 17:22
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Scyther posted:Dreadball? That kickstarter-pandering miniatures game that ~mysteriously~ fell off the face of the planet never to get any mention in any kind of board game media again after the kickstarter ended? Dreadball sold well at Essen, has regular tournaments in the UK and Season 4 AKA Dreadball Xtreme is out this year, so it's doing fine. Don't confuse a lack of international penetration with a lack of success.
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Jan 27, 2015 17:25
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Nah, Blood Bowl is still part of the collective consciousness. Completely undeserved of course, but Games Workshop trash like Space Hulk and Heroquest has a way of remaining popular to the point where people go apeshit whenever there's mention of a reprint. I don't doubt Dreadball is better than Blood Bowl (it would be difficult not to be) but I have a hard time believing it's actually good by our standards considering it didn't make nay kind of significant splash, even in a community that has so many nerds that are thirsting for anything conceptually similar to Blood Bowl. But y'know that's what happens with these kickstarter "look at our miniatures" games, none of them have any staying power.
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Jan 27, 2015 17:27
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Reading about Xcom and these other app enhanced games, I'm looking forward to a fantasy swat team game where we can let the app just tell us where to put our enemy mans and maintain all the board state. I'd like to play some more complex dungeon crawls without having to be the GM. It would also be cool if they implemented AI opponents for LCG games. This might breath some life into games where it's really hard to find an opponent, like Mage Wars or Disk Wars. I guess it might also be neat if you could use your ipad or laptop or whatever as a conduit to play these games, without going full on Vassal/OCTGN. Like if you could get a remote third player via an app. Maybe image recognition could be used to capture board state somehow. This would be pretty cool for "saving" a game in between sessions. I'm curious how much can be automated while keeping the boardgame charm. The big dilemma I see with automation is that you then make mechanics opaque or "mystified". One of the really great things about board games is every mechanic is completely exposed and thrust in your face because you have to manage it, while in many video games the mechanics aren't even revealed unless some gamefaq sperglord reverse engineers it. The other subtle aspect of manual bookkeeping vs automation is that the former forces a complexity ceiling in a game. Anyways, curious to see the next stages of evolution here and to try out the Xcom game.
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Jan 27, 2015 17:40
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Jedit posted:Re: Earth Reborn - Christophe Boelinger is just a really good designer. Anyone who likes Chvatil should check out his stuff, then weep over how long they have wasted playing Mage Knight. Illegal looks cool -- have you played it?
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Jan 27, 2015 17:42
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Scyther posted:Nah, Blood Bowl is still part of the collective consciousness. Completely undeserved of course, but Games Workshop trash like Space Hulk and Heroquest has a way of remaining popular to the point where people go apeshit whenever there's mention of a reprint. Blood Bowl is a part of the collective consciousness because it is 30 years old, was the very first "fantasy world football" game, was a large-box title on every game store's shelf in the 1980s and 90s and was cross-promoted by GW in White Dwarf magazine for years. Do you think it's fair to compare a 2-year old Kickstarted game to that? Anything would come up short. T-Bone posted:Illegal looks cool -- have you played it? I'm sure it's great, but it's not available in the USA. Megaman's Jockstrap fucked around with this message at 17:46 on Jan 27, 2015 |
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Jan 27, 2015 17:43
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This was touched on a page back or so but this is something that bothers me about some board games and I want to say it loud and proud. I get that there must be people there who like it but I really dislike the ongoing medieval European town/province naming convention and setting for games, and I find it a barrier sometimes to get a game to get others to play. Since most of the time the name of the area has nothing to do with the mechanic, it feels like they are going through a checklist. Carcassonne gets a pass. I asked earlier about Castles of Burgundy. I will eventually get it and will certainly get people who game to play it. But the board looks a bit dull and it just feels like the done thing in theme is just to attach farming and settlement building. I will get over it but this makes it a hard sell, no wonder new people go for things like Betrayal or Munchkin. It really struck me watching a review for Orleans, and maybe because it is so recent and yet the same 'regional name with no connection' being done again ticked me off. The mechanic looks interesting but aaaargh the look and the theme, it just seems really old hat and lacks creativity. Then again there are loads of sci-fi and fantasy settings and they don't bother me as much, but probably because the naming convention isn't so ruddy lazy ('Pluto', 'Haley's Comet', 'Tatooine'). Fat Turkey fucked around with this message at 17:49 on Jan 27, 2015 |
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Jan 27, 2015 17:46
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Edit: ^^^ I feel you. Sometimes it feels like  . I think that perhaps they are trying to pick the most inoffensive and bland theme possible to ensure that no one playing these games with their families in Germany is going to look down their nose at a childish or absurd theme. Which, while I personally don't appreciate it, I can understand. The "name of a region + setting from 200 years ago" trope is boring as hell, though. At least try something slightly different like Sushi Go, Bohnanza, Suburbia, Tokaido, Tokenako, etc..The other part of this is that sometimes they are fairly thin stereotypes of a particular culture that I think get a pass because it's from 200 years ago; some of these games are the equivalent of Saint Patty's day theming. Blood Bowl has also been popular on Something Awful in the last couple years because of the online implementations and a couple really popular Let's Plays. fozzy fosbourne fucked around with this message at 17:59 on Jan 27, 2015 |
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Jan 27, 2015 17:49
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Fat Turkey posted:This was touched on a page back or so but this is something that bothers me about some board games and I want to say it loud and proud. I also hope they stop naming games after medieval French towns, but only because I hope to someday own every game that's named after a medieval French town. Carcassonne gets a pass here, too, because I find it really boring.
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Jan 27, 2015 17:50
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Fat Turkey posted:This was touched on a page back or so but this is something that bothers me about some board games and I want to say it loud and proud. These games are enjoyed for their mechanics. Don't look for theme or reasoning because that's not what sells the game. The mechanics sell the game. If that's not what you are looking for, that's fine, but getting ticked off about it is a waste of energy.
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Jan 27, 2015 17:51
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Megaman's Jockstrap posted:Blood Bowl is a part of the collective consciousness because it is 30 years old, was the very first "fantasy world football" game, was a large-box title on every game store's shelf in the 1980s and 90s and was cross-promoted by GW in White Dwarf magazine for years. Do you think it's fair to compare a 2-year old Kickstarted game to that? Anything would come up short. Don't forget the PC game, it's two expansions, the sequel in the works and the ports to other platforms.
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Jan 27, 2015 17:52
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Megaman's Jockstrap posted:Blood Bowl is a part of the collective consciousness because it is 30 years old, was the very first "fantasy world football" game, was a large-box title on every game store's shelf in the 1980s and 90s and was cross-promoted by GW in White Dwarf magazine for years. Do you think it's fair to compare a 2-year old Kickstarted game to that? Anything would come up short. No, but I do think it's fair to say that Dreadball has failed to make any kind of impact outside of its niche. I can't remember the last time anyone even mentioned it in this thread, or on any board game news site, other than Jedit just now. I'm sure it's passable if you absolutely have to play a fantasy world football game, but if it were actually a GOOD game on its own merits, it would have had a broader impact, kickstarter or not. Scyther fucked around with this message at 17:55 on Jan 27, 2015 |
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Jan 27, 2015 17:53
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Oh, Christopher Boelinger's got a new game? I love that guy! I know a lot of people say Archipelago has some racism to it but it can be read as being critical of colonization and the game plays great. Maybe this one will be the game he does that I can bring out around friends without being embarrassed. What does it look lik- 
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Jan 27, 2015 17:56
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Jedit posted:It's called Dreadball, you're welcome. I played a demo of Dreadball last PAX east, and even though I got the 'simple' version, I couldn't get over just how much goddamn dicerolling and (to borrow some Shadowrun 3rd ed parlance) "target number" changing there was. You compare strengths and position and if you ran to determine how many dice you roll. That part is fine, but then your opponent rolls opposing dice to counteract them. It gums up the works so hard, and makes it take forever. As I played, I kept thinking: if I wanted to play something where I would have endless combats with many dice on both sides that took forever to figure out and resulted in very little after counteracting effects are taken into account, I would play 40K. Maybe this is the Blood Bowl fan in me, but I looked into other combat sports games (Dreadball, Kaosball, Slaughterball), and none of them seem to be what I want. I don't see the risk-management that exists in Blood Bowl in them, but then again, these guys were probably BB fans who hated turnovers ending turns and made the game less about risk and more about tactics. Of course, I may be misrepresenting things here: I've only actually played Dreadball. Still, nothing about the reviews I've seen for the other two make me want to touch them with a ten-foot clown pole. Side note: I hate that these games have it that some positionals can't carry the ball. The great part of football are things like nose tackles getting interceptions and weird schemes where guards make touchdowns and stuff. If a big guy having the ball is a problem, then balance your game better. Also, looking into those games with disappointment might have also caused me to start working on a combat sports game in my spare time, trying to reduce the dice rolling to one or maybe two rolls per block. fozzy fosbourne posted:Blood Bowl has also been popular on Something Awful in the last couple years because of the online implementations and a couple really popular Let's Plays. Yes, that might be part of what makes me favor Blood Bowl: I bought it on release, but got back into it because of LP. I've never played it on the table top and the online implementations do the tackle zone etc math for you. Maybe I am being too hard on the other ones.
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Jan 27, 2015 17:57
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Man, I'd just be happy with a good straight American football boardgame.
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Jan 27, 2015 18:00
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Scyther posted:But y'know that's what happens with these kickstarter "look at our miniatures" games, none of them have any staying power. Mantic isn't one of these. They're a solid company that is working hard to basically be the anti-GW. They give a crap about their customer's wallets and actually making a balanced game. Of course, they still fall prey to the typical miniature game rules that wouldn't pass the litmus test of this thread. I.e. Too many d6's. I just don't think lumping them in with all the other CMoN crap does them justice. Scyther posted:No, but I do think it's fair to say that Dreadball has failed to make any kind of impact outside of its niche. I can't remember the last time anyone even mentioned it in this thread, or on any board game news site, other than Jedit just now. I'm sure it's passable if you absolutely have to play a fantasy world football game, but if it were actually a GOOD game on its own merits, it would have had a broader impact, kickstarter or not. Outside of its niche? Yeah that's fair. However, a good part of the reason Dreadball never gets brought up in this thread is because there is a dedicated Mantic thread.
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Jan 27, 2015 18:05
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Obama?
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Jan 27, 2015 18:07
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Scyther posted:No, but I do think it's fair to say that Dreadball has failed to make any kind of impact outside of its niche. I can't remember the last time anyone even mentioned it in this thread, or on any board game news site, other than Jedit just now. Ok, let's reset: in response to DreadBall's mention as "a better version of Blood Bowl" you said "it vanished" as though that were evidence that it were a bad game. You further followed it up with "(the game is) actually (not) good by our standards considering it didn't make any kind of significant splash" and my argument is "compared to Blood Bowl, nothing football makes a significant splash". Now we've somehow switched to arguing against a point I didn't make: that DreadBall made a significant impact on the board gaming hobby. Let me be clear: it didn't. What we can infer about the game from that: absolutely nothing, because the "wants to play football as a board game" crowd is tiny, tiny, tiny, and Blood Bowl sucks up most of the oxygen from that crowd. It's the same reason that Warhammer is still around even though there's been a dozen skirmish games with way better rules released over the years. Warhammer got there first. Blood Bowl got there first. As far as "good games by our standards" go, this thread just steered a guy looking for a two-player dungeon crawler into Descent 2e, which is absolutely the riskier, more expensive, weaker choice. That alone should tell you that, while this thread is full of smart people who want to play interesting, mechanically sound games, it doesn't possess total knowledge and is able to fall for marketing tricks and trends same as any other group of people. Before you think that I'm sneering down my nose at anyone, I include myself in that group. I've been hoodwinked by poo poo and overlooked great games plenty of times over the years. So will this thread.
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Jan 27, 2015 18:07
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StashAugustine posted:Man, I'd just be happy with a good straight American football boardgame. Your wish is granted Obama 2012 posted:Obama? Could be Indolent Bastard fucked around with this message at 18:14 on Jan 27, 2015 |
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Jan 27, 2015 18:11
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Lorini posted:These games are enjoyed for their mechanics. Don't look for theme or reasoning because that's not what sells the game. The mechanics sell the game. If that's not what you are looking for, that's fine, but getting ticked off about it is a waste of energy. I think you're missing the point. Mechanics may sell a game to establishes gamers, but the unestablished are a big market and such an uninspiring theme makes it harder to coax people in, in my experience. Your thing about what I'm looking for seems odd since I already said that the mechanics look good, I am lamenting the uninspiring repetition that can affect game choice with other people. This is a problem I have had.
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Jan 27, 2015 18:11
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 Space Alert deal of the day, $33
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Jan 27, 2015 18:15
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Megaman's Jockstrap posted:Ok, let's reset: in response to DreadBall's mention as "a better version of Blood Bowl" you said "it vanished" as though that were evidence that it were a bad game. You further followed it up with "(the game is) actually (not) good by our standards considering it didn't make any kind of significant splash" and my argument is "compared to Blood Bowl, nothing football makes a significant splash". Now we've somehow switched to arguing against a point I didn't make: that DreadBall made a significant impact on the board gaming hobby. Let me be clear: it didn't. What we can infer about the game from that: absolutely nothing, because the "wants to play football as a board game" crowd is tiny, tiny, tiny, and Blood Bowl sucks up most of the oxygen from that crowd. It's the same reason that Warhammer is still around even though there's been a dozen skirmish games with way better rules released over the years. Warhammer got there first. Blood Bowl got there first. I still think the reason it didn't make a splash isn't the genre, considering it made 700k on kickstarter, it's that it's yet another uninspired generic kickstarter miniature game with ameritrash rules and lots of dice chucking. I can count on one hand the number of kickstarter games that should have made it into wide distribution and general awareness but didn't. Conversely there's plenty of kickstarter games that made it big undeservedly, but that's a different matter (the cream might rise to the top, but so do the turds). It might well be an improvement over Blood Bowl but that's just damning with faint praise. You'll also notice I specifically recommended against Descent and made a point of pointing out its (well known) flaws.
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Jan 27, 2015 18:22
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SO CUTE!!!! Might have to get the Farmers ones for Caverna.
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Jan 27, 2015 18:23
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Scyther posted:I can count on one hand the number of kickstarter games that should have made it into wide distribution and general awareness but didn't. Mind listing a few? In case it's not obvious, I've been out of the scene for over a year.
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Jan 27, 2015 18:26
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Megaman's Jockstrap posted:Mind listing a few? In case it's not obvious, I've been out of the scene for over a year.  I can count to zero on one hand.
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Jan 27, 2015 18:28
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Scyther posted:
Glory of Rome and Tammany Hall are at least OK, they probably count. Also Dungeon Lords, even though I'm never going to receive my copy (prove me wrong, CGE)
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Jan 27, 2015 18:29
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Lorini posted:SO CUTE!!!! Might have to get the Farmers ones for Caverna. They can't hold weapons :/
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Jan 27, 2015 18:30
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