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Puistokemisti posted:More like. I can't think of any game that fits what you're describing. Games with looting aren't made with artificial grinds like 'spend 60 daily battleground tokens for this weapon' - recouping losses is a normal part of the experience and a normal part of the player-driven economy. Losing your ship in EVE sucks, but it happens to everyone, and it gives the players who specialize in building ships a reason to exist.
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Jan 26, 2015 20:15
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The other thing full loot does is add some risk vs reward to poopsocking. In UO a vanquishing weapon was a lot better than a GM weapon and definitely gave someone a huge egde, but they weren't used very often because the chance of you during and losing it was so high.
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Jan 26, 2015 20:50
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Wadjamaloo posted:That only exists if you use a lovely wow style progression model. Look at dayz as an example of how the threat of loss can lead to rewarding gameplay. The thing with Day Z that is completely missing from PVP sandbox MMO's in the last decade is that obtaining awesome gear is doable by anyone at any point in the game. Most Sandbox MMO's put such a big emphasis on crafting that they make it next to impossible for new players to compete in regards to gear.
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Jan 26, 2015 21:00
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Jimlit posted:The thing with Day Z that is completely missing from PVP sandbox MMO's in the last decade is that obtaining awesome gear is doable by anyone at any point in the game. Most Sandbox MMO's put such a big emphasis on crafting that they make it next to impossible for new players to compete in regards to gear. In Darkfall it was not rare to see newbs with top tier gear, either donated by guildmates or from opportunistic looting. "Vulturing" is an easy way for a new player to get top gear in a game with full loot. Get in a GvG battle, wait until at least a few enemies are dead, then run over and start picking up as much as you possibly can before you're noticed. Many guilds ban that kind of vulturing in the middle of a battle, and some ban it even after battles unless they believe you contributed to the fight. But in the latter case it's usually a gray area and most of the time moochers end up with a lot of nice loot.
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Jan 26, 2015 23:56
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MrBims posted:
I love that razor.
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Jan 27, 2015 03:43
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I'm not sure why people find it so hard to wrap their head around gear not being too important in an MMO. If you play an MMO where the format is to poopsock a dungeon 400 times to get your blue set so you can poopsock the next dungeon 400 times to get your purple set, then of course gear loss on death makes no sense. But frankly I'm not even sure how people enjoy that kind of game. It would be nice to have an MMO with more to it than just a massive gear grind.
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Jan 27, 2015 03:48
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Its because thats how MMO's have worked since Everquest. Getting away from that model would be sweet, the only problem is still do need some sort of carrot on a stick. This is where I think Shadowbane, and to an extent EvE excelled. Progression was more focused around guilds and community building and less on the individual player. In SB character progression was quick and meaningless, it was guild progression and territory control that kept you playing.
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Jan 27, 2015 03:57
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Wadjamaloo posted:Its because thats how MMO's have worked since Everquest. Yep, precisely. Crowfall seems to be going for a similar system, but it looks like they're introducing an explicit "win" condition, which will likely involve one's guild becoming the king over some territory or possibly an entire world or server. I think that'll probably either be really fun or really lovely depending on how they implement it. Maybe both.
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Jan 27, 2015 04:03
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A neat way to do it would be to have soft resets every 4-6 months, with whoever is the king of the hill at the end getting some kind of reward and then all guilds going back to some sort of starting territory. Incentives to win while also not completely wrecking the loser permanently.
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Jan 27, 2015 04:51
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Wadjamaloo posted:Its because thats how MMO's have worked since Everquest. EvE has that model with capital ships that sit on accounts that never get logged in because the slightest risk of losing one is too much for the players to allow.
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Jan 27, 2015 06:09
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The Shortest Path posted:A neat way to do it would be to have soft resets every 4-6 months, with whoever is the king of the hill at the end getting some kind of reward and then all guilds going back to some sort of starting territory. Incentives to win while also not completely wrecking the loser permanently. How do you combat a guild alliance with 50x the numbers of everyone else that would just win every reset? 80% of server population alliances ruined quite a few servers in SB. I mean DAoC style forcing three specific sides would do the trick, however that limits freedom for guilds and nation building significantly. Rad Russian fucked around with this message at 07:08 on Jan 27, 2015 |
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Jan 27, 2015 07:02
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rage at me posted:I'm not sure why people find it so hard to wrap their head around gear not being too important in an MMO. Those aren't fun and don't satisfy that urge people have in their reptilian brain to see numbers go higher. If you can't condescend to someone because they haven't min-maxed their gear the same way everyone else has on the server, where's the fun?!
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Jan 27, 2015 14:06
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Rad Russian posted:How do you combat a guild alliance with 50x the numbers of everyone else that would just win every reset? 80% of server population alliances ruined quite a few servers in SB. I mean DAoC style forcing three specific sides would do the trick, however that limits freedom for guilds and nation building significantly. It depends on how it's implemented. I do suspect zerging may become an issue.
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Jan 27, 2015 15:04
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Zarithas posted:In Darkfall it was not rare to see newbs with top tier gear, either donated by guildmates or from opportunistic looting. True, but that wasn't the majority of peoples experience. It got a bit better after they added the auction house, but early on it was rough on solo's and small groups. Rad Russian posted:How do you combat a guild alliance with 50x the numbers of everyone else that would just win every reset? 80% of server population alliances ruined quite a few servers in SB. I mean DAoC style forcing three specific sides would do the trick, however that limits freedom for guilds and nation building significantly. I think there has to be more incentive than just owning a part of the map. for example you could have the upkeep for land you own be ridiculous and rely on player commerce within that land to be essential to being able to keep it. If zerg and act like dicks to the whole of the server you could essentially just get starved out of your own holdings. Jimlit fucked around with this message at 15:19 on Jan 27, 2015 |
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Jan 27, 2015 15:11
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Rad Russian posted:How do you combat a guild alliance with 50x the numbers of everyone else that would just win every reset? 80% of server population alliances ruined quite a few servers in SB. I mean DAoC style forcing three specific sides would do the trick, however that limits freedom for guilds and nation building significantly. Talk to the second in command of this ginormous alliance and ask him how he would fare against the first in command if he split off with all his most loyal followers. Would he succeed or fail? The temptation alone is almost too great to resist. Or, in other words, politics.
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Jan 27, 2015 15:55
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Rad Russian posted:How do you combat a guild alliance with 50x the numbers of everyone else that would just win every reset? 80% of server population alliances ruined quite a few servers in SB. I mean DAoC style forcing three specific sides would do the trick, however that limits freedom for guilds and nation building significantly. Bring your own alliance in, pre plan before the next reset, get more new players and zerg the poo poo out of it where applicable
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Jan 27, 2015 16:13
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Biowarfare posted:Bring your own alliance in, pre plan before the next reset, get more new players and zerg the poo poo out of it where applicable You're kind of retarded. This isn't Starcraft. You can't just build more units.
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Jan 27, 2015 16:15
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Vorgen posted:Talk to the second in command of this ginormous alliance and ask him how he would fare against the first in command if he split off with all his most loyal followers. Would he succeed or fail? The temptation alone is almost too great to resist. Or, in other words, politics. A nice fantasy but you aren't thinking it through. Your hypothetical second in command doesn't get anything from his hypothetical coup. In such a structure, all players in the winning alliance have a vested interest in not rocking the boat.
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Jan 27, 2015 16:19
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PRESIDENT GOKU posted:Those aren't fun and don't satisfy that urge people have in their reptilian brain to see numbers go higher. If you can't condescend to someone because they haven't min-maxed their gear the same way everyone else has on the server, where's the fun?! Looting games satisfy the urge people have in their reptilian brain to loving smash people over the internet. I can't remember any point in the last two years that you didn't have Day-Z or a Day-Z clone in the top 3 of steam sales.
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Jan 27, 2015 16:23
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MrBims posted:Looting games satisfy the urge people have in their reptilian brain to loving smash people over the internet. I can't remember any point in the last two years that you didn't have Day-Z or a Day-Z clone in the top 3 of steam sales. it is legitimately satisfying to play a full loot game and gain in 30 seconds, what it might have taken someone hours to gather
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Jan 27, 2015 16:39
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did somebody say fantasy sandbox mmo with open-world pvp that you can early access up to $5000 in a way that easily enables this company to take your money and run I THINK SOMEONE FUCKIN DID https://goblinworks.com/pathfinder-online/
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Jan 27, 2015 16:57
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quote:A Fantasy Sandbox i hope your boner is as big as mine for this stellar entry into the mmo genre from a company i've never heard of before
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Jan 27, 2015 16:59
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sword_man.gif posted:i hope your boner is as big as mine for this stellar entry into the mmo genre from a company i've never heard of before im pretty sure I heard they have a subscription even in early access which is hilarious
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Jan 27, 2015 17:05
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Eonwe posted:im pretty sure I heard they have a subscription even in early access which is hilarious lmao and of course the forums are restricted to early accessers so that every singler poster is sure to have sunk cost we need an echo chamber of positivity stat
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Jan 27, 2015 17:07
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sword_man.gif posted:lmao they managed to find an even more purestrain echo chamber than star citizen, lol
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Jan 27, 2015 17:08
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quote:The 20,000 or so folks who will be admitted into early enrollment play (a number that includes the 7,000 Kickstarter backers) are expected to pay $15 a month as the team continues to develop the title. In exchange, characters and progress will not be wiped, and players will get to see the game take shape around them. haha holy gently caress pathfinder online, you cray
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Jan 27, 2015 17:17
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lmao jesus christ a monthly fee on a loving alpha of their game so that you can be one of The Established and it's totally clear that, if this mmo were to actually exist, it's going to be loving new players so goddamn hard
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Jan 27, 2015 17:21
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we'll see how crowfall does, and I paid for Albion Online alpha (but at least they are wiping and I get goodies on launch) so I guess I can't judge too much
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Jan 27, 2015 17:23
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 cool art style they are saying all the right things, but every dev does before the game comes out  quote:Please, please, please get some help with the horse body model. Horses are extrememly difficult to get right in an animation and impossible without a deep knowledge of equine anatomy. You can see every leg bone and joint and major muscle group on a horse, you can't just wing it when trying to model one or you end up with a strange looking fugly horse and you don't exactly know why. eonwe fucked around with this message at 18:50 on Jan 27, 2015 |
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Jan 27, 2015 18:47
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I, too, demand realism in my fantasy creatures.
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Jan 27, 2015 21:01
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Rad Russian posted:How do you combat a guild alliance with 50x the numbers of everyone else that would just win every reset? 80% of server population alliances ruined quite a few servers in SB. I mean DAoC style forcing three specific sides would do the trick, however that limits freedom for guilds and nation building significantly. Put a cap on guild and alliance sizes, have exponentially increasing taxes on property or guild members, add some sort of incentive for guilds to betray alliances, there are all sorts of ways to do it. Heck, you could just make the gameplay heavily skill-based so that zergs do jack poo poo against competent players. Personally I think the best way to do it would be to make it take an actually significant amount of time to get from place to place, so if a large guild gets attacked somewhere they can't mobilize before stuff gets burned to the ground. But that's really player-unfriendly and won't work in an actual game.
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Jan 27, 2015 21:51
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The biggest way to combat a zerg? Have AOE abilities that do more damage as people are bunched up If your AOE hits 1 dude? might as well have hit him with a pillow, hits 10+ dudes? its pretty damaging idk I think thats what the Albion Online people are doing and it kind of makes sense
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Jan 27, 2015 21:54
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Anti-zerg mechanics will ensure that no goon guild will be successful.
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Jan 27, 2015 22:31
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The Shortest Path posted:Put a cap on guild and alliance sizes, have exponentially increasing taxes on property or guild members, add some sort of incentive for guilds to betray alliances, there are all sorts of ways to do it. Darkfall was pretty skill based but zergs were still an issue. It definitely could've been way more of an issue if they dumbed down the combat though. Fast/insta travel vs. realistic travel is usually one of the most contentious issues in sandbox games. In Darkfall a lot of people were very against it, and a lot of people were all for it. The devs eventually created a system where you could travel between cities owned by the same clan if they built a portal, and you'd have to farm semi-rare items which would grant you access to the portal and be consumed each time you use one.
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Jan 28, 2015 02:11
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That sounds pretty decent, actually. I know darkfall got a rerelease or some poo poo somewhat recently, is it actually alive? I might try it out to get a feel for what went wrong.
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Jan 28, 2015 03:19
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Puistokemisti posted:Anti-zerg mechanics will ensure that no goon guild will be successful. Then we know it must come to pass.
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Jan 28, 2015 04:02
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rage at me posted:I'm not sure why people find it so hard to wrap their head around gear not being too important in an MMO. i can almost touch the elitism oozing out of this post if only all those sheeple realized how wrong they are
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Jan 28, 2015 14:31
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oh u guys found crowfall. i signed up on the forums to figure out what it was since the main page doesn't tell you much and boy howdy they are a pretentious bunch in there. and im not talking about just the hopeful players. they have a speech somewhere about how if you're on the forums then you are like the future of MMOs and want something truly unique and new lol
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Jan 28, 2015 15:48
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A Spider Covets posted:they have a speech somewhere about how if you're on the forums then you are like the future of MMOs and want something truly unique and new lol I am literally giggling like a maniac. It's Groundhog Day again.
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Jan 28, 2015 22:26
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A Spider Covets posted:oh u guys found crowfall. i signed up on the forums to figure out what it was since the main page doesn't tell you much and boy howdy they are a pretentious bunch in there. and im not talking about just the hopeful players. yea like, if they make a fun game ill play it, but the amount of  from the players and devs is hilariousits mostly "man im so glad we aren't plebs and like this dead niche in a dead-ish genre"
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Jan 28, 2015 22:28
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