Warhammer 40k: It's the end of the game as we know it (and I feel fine)

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Drythe: Aug 26, 2012

What the hell is the Emperor seeing that gives him such a powerful boner?

Oh, this is a good new page first post.

# ? Jan 27, 2015 14:43

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# ? Jun 10, 2024 22:17

Moola: Aug 16, 2006

lol

# ? Jan 27, 2015 14:47

Icon Of Sin: Dec 26, 2008

Drythe posted:

What the hell is the Emperor seeing that gives him such a powerful boner?

Oh, this is a good new page first post.

Scrunts. Always scrunts.

# ? Jan 27, 2015 14:55

Moola: Aug 16, 2006

Icon Of Sin posted:

Scrunts. Always scrunts.

# ? Jan 27, 2015 15:12

Sulecrist: Apr 5, 2007; Better tear off this bar association logo.

Here is the 30k Zone Mortalis force I'm considering. It's Legion-agnostic; I'll make a decision once we know more about HHV:

Praetor, Cataphractii Terminator Armour, Volkite Charger -142

Cataphractii Terminators (5) (mostly with axes/combi-bolters) Reaper Autocannon -190

Contemptor Dreadnought, 2x CCW/HF -195

Breacher Squad (11), 2x Graviton Guns, Lightning Claw -280

Tactical Squad (13) (all with BP/CCW), Power Sword -190

Can I get some feedback, especially on weapon loadouts?

Bulbasaur, this is pretty close to what we discussed last night, but I bumped it up to 1k because I was struggling to fit everything I really wanted into 750. I think it'll break down to 500 and 750 okay.

Sulecrist fucked around with this message at 15:48 on Jan 27, 2015

# ? Jan 27, 2015 15:46

SRM: Jul 10, 2009; ~*FeElIn' AweS0mE*~

koreban posted:

SRM those stormtroopers look boss as hell. If I can ever get the gut back up to start painting again you'll be the (perhaps un)fortunate standard by which I compare myself and the gauge of progress until which I feel like I "made it". You've been an inspiration to follow the past year that I've been in the hobby.

Thanks man! That's really awesome and humbling to hear. My rank and file Valhallans really aren't a difficult standard to get to - they're the right middleground of effort and result for me and you could totally get there! And everyone should paint. Painting rules. Start painting!

# ? Jan 27, 2015 17:21

Tuxedo Jack: Sep 11, 2001; Hey Ma, who's that band I like? Oh yeah, Hall & Oates.

I'm building a small GK force for Zone Mortalis, and my plan is to start off with a Librarian with the Soul Glaive and ten Terminators with a Daemonhammer. As we expand I'll add 15 more terminators and a full Purifier squad. Eventually rounding it out into a full army with Stormravens and Dreadknights.

I don't know dick about Grey Knights aside from what I've read in the last 48 hours. Is that a reasonable starting point for a decent army? Or should I shift away from Terminators for Strike Squads?

I'm really excited to try painting the GKs with the zenithal method (in NMM), has anyone had great success with Zenithal Painting (not necessarily just the priming method)?

# ? Jan 27, 2015 18:59

Mango Polo: Aug 4, 2007

Holy poo poo.

quote:

Canoptek Wraiths - 120 points (unit of 3)

WS4 BS4 S6 T5 W2 I2 A3 Ld10 Sv.3+

Fearless, Rending, Very Bulky

Wraith Form: Canptek Wraiths have 3+ Invuln. Save

Wraithflight: When moving, Canoptek Wraiths can mve over all other models and terrain as if they were open ground. However, they cannot end their move on top of other models and can only end their move on top of impassable terrain if it is possible to actually place the models on top of it.

May include up to three additional Canoptek Wraiths (40 points per model)

Any model may take one of the following:

Whip Coils - 3 pts per model
Particle caster - 5pts per model
Transdimensional beamer - 10pts per model

And it seems like they are now Beasts. God drat.

On the other hand, now we know why barge lords got cheaper: they lost Sweep Attack

e.: Ghost Ark specifically states it can only carry Warriors and IC. The dream of assault Lychguards disappears.

Mango Polo fucked around with this message at 19:16 on Jan 27, 2015

# ? Jan 27, 2015 19:12

DJ Dizzy: Feb 11, 2009; Real men don't use bolters.

WRAITHS WRAITHS WRAITHS WRAITHS.

Pretty much all the pretty units got better. Thanks GW :allears:

# ? Jan 27, 2015 19:16

panascope: Mar 26, 2005

Man I'm not sure what to buy first, a couple boxes of Wraiths or a couple boxes of Lychguard.

Oh just saw the Ghost Ark update. Wraiths it is.

panascope fucked around with this message at 19:19 on Jan 27, 2015

# ? Jan 27, 2015 19:17

MasterSlowPoke: Oct 9, 2005; Our courage will pull us through

The loss of sweep attacks isn't a huge thing, it only happened very rarely. I'd rather have the price decrease.

I thought for sure Wraiths were getting a 4++.

# ? Jan 27, 2015 19:18

Boon: Jun 21, 2005; by R. Guyovich

Someone I know already runs 12 Wraiths and 2 Command Barges.

Welp.

# ? Jan 27, 2015 19:27

WhiteOutMouse: Jul 29, 2010; will blow your mind.

So still no grenades for wraiths? T5 sounds good and beasts gives them fleet but what about assaulting into cover? I know they get some bonus initiative whips, but that would not help since they get reduced to zero after, right?

# ? Jan 27, 2015 19:27

Mango Polo: Aug 4, 2007

And we finally know what are the perks of the formations.

quote:

Okay, about the formations. Once again peeps, there is NO Force Org Chart. The way they want you to build this army, apparently, is to clump a bunch of these formations together. This time I am also posting the Formation special rules.

Reclamation Legion (1+)

1 Overlord
0-2 Lychguard
1-4 Immortals
2-8 Necron Warriors
1-3 Tomb Blades
0-3 Monoloiths

Special Rules: Moves Through Cover, Relentless
You can re-roll reanimation rolls of 1 for the overlord, or units within 12" of him

1-10 choices of the following per reclamation legion:

(0 to 1) Royal Court=
1 Overlord
1-3 Lords
1-3 Crypteks

Special Rules: Move through cover, relentless
If overlord for this formation is your warlord, you can re-roll warlord traits when using Codex Cron warlord traits table.

Judicator Battatlion=
1 unit of Triach Stalkers
2 units of Triarch Praetorians

Special Rules: Move Through Cover
At start of shooting phase, pick an enemy within LOS of Triarch Stalker. Re-roll failed to hit, to wound, and armour penetration rolls against the target until end of turn.

Destroyer Cult=
1 Destroyer Lord
3 units of destroyers
0-1 units of heavy destroyers

Special Rules: Move through cover
If this formation is your primary detachment, can re-roll for Warlord Traits
Units in this formation re-roll failed to wound and armour penetration rolls

Canoptek Harvest=
1 Canoptek Spyder
1 unit of Canoptek Wraiths
1 unit of Canoptek Scarabs

Special Rules: Move Through Cover, Relentless
At start of Movement phase, can gain Fleet, Reanimation Protocols, or Shred. Spyder and all formation units within 12" gain those special rules until your next movement phase.

Star God=
1 C'Tan Shard f the Deceiver, Shard of the Nightbringer, Transcendent C'Tan or Tessaract Vault

Annihalation Nexus=
2 Annihilation Barges
1 Domsday Ark

Special Rules:
If Doomsday Ark from this formation loses it's quantum shielding, choose an annihilation barge within 6". The barge loses its quantum shielding, and the Doomsday ark gets Quantum shielding instead.

Flayed Ones=
1 unit of Flayed Ones

Living Tomb=
1 Obelisk
0-2 Monoloths

Special Rules: Formation must be placed in Deep Strike reserve. Do not make reserve rlls fr the Obelisk, it automatically arrives on your turn 2. Monoliths do not scatter when deep striking if placed within 12" of the Obelisk.
Immediately after a Monoloths arrives frm this formation, choose one friendly Cron unit nthat is entirely infantry or jump infantry that is in reserve. Place it as though disembarking from the Monolith's eternity gate.

Deathmarks=
1 unit of Deathmarks

Deathbringer Flight
2-4 Doomscythes

Special Rules:
When Doom Scythe from this formation fires a death ray, add 2 to BS for each other Doom Scythe from this formation that shot at the enemy this turn.
All enemy units within 12" of at least two Doom Scythes from this formation have -1 Ld.

Destroyer Cult, Judicator Battatlion and Annihilation Nexus seem super funky.

Canoptek Harvest seems good until you see that you need to be within 12" of the spyder.

Mango Polo fucked around with this message at 19:34 on Jan 27, 2015

# ? Jan 27, 2015 19:32

panascope: Mar 26, 2005

That's pretty weird. You can't just field, like, a Triarch Stalker? You have to use their formation?

# ? Jan 27, 2015 19:41

Mango Polo: Aug 4, 2007

panascope posted:

That's pretty weird. You can't just field, like, a Triarch Stalker? You have to use their formation?

Sure you can. That's just a formation that forces you to buy a bunch of things together but comes with free perks.

# ? Jan 27, 2015 19:42

spacegoat: Dec 23, 2003; by Jeffrey of YOSPOS; Nap Ghost

So if I want to play the army, at all, I need to buy these mandatory units?

# ? Jan 27, 2015 19:45

Mango Polo: Aug 4, 2007

spacegoat posted:

So if I want to play the army, at all, I need to buy these mandatory units?

No, you can still make an army with the usual FOC and cherry pick whatever you want from the unit list like a regular codex.

# ? Jan 27, 2015 19:46

spacegoat: Dec 23, 2003; by Jeffrey of YOSPOS; Nap Ghost

But your quote says there's no FOC?

# ? Jan 27, 2015 19:49

panascope: Mar 26, 2005

Mango Polo posted:

No, you can still make an army with the usual FOC and cherry pick whatever you want from the unit list like a regular codex.

But the quote says:

quote:

Once again peeps, there is NO Force Org Chart. The way they want you to build this army, apparently, is to clump a bunch of these formations together. This time I am also posting the Formation special rules.

# ? Jan 27, 2015 19:50

Sulecrist: Apr 5, 2007; Better tear off this bar association logo.

spacegoat posted:

But your quote says there's no FOC?

Maybe he means there's no Necron-specific Detachment.

Edit: unless there are no HQ/T/E/FA/HS listings at all any more, which would be really weird if you wanted to take Necrons as allies but not run Unbound.

# ? Jan 27, 2015 19:50

Moola: Aug 16, 2006

holy poo poo 40k is hilariously confusing now

# ? Jan 27, 2015 19:52

Mango Polo: Aug 4, 2007

spacegoat posted:

But your quote says there's no FOC?

Sorry, here's the exact wording apparently.

quote:

If you are using the Unbound method, simply use the datasheets later in this section that correspond to the Necron models in your collection. If you are using the Battle-forged method, you will instead need to organise the Necron models in your collection into Detachments. This is a fun process in its own right. The most common of these are the Combined Arms and Allied detachments. Note that you can also include any of the formations presented in this section as part of a battle-forged army.

Furthermore, the Necron Decurion Deachment is a special type of detachment that can be included in any battle-forged army. Unlike the detachments shown in Warhammer 40,000: The Rules, it has a force organisation chart whose slots are combination of specific formations and army list entries instead of battlefield roles. However, it still has compulsory and optional elements, as well as restrictions and command benefits, just like any other detachment.

Although units cannot normally belong to more than one detachment, units from a formation that is part of a Necrn Decurion Detachment are an exception. They count as part of both their formation and the detachment, and have all associated command benefits and special rules. If your warlord is part of a formation or an army list entry that makes up part of a decurion detachment, that entire decurion detachment is your primary detachment.

# ? Jan 27, 2015 19:52

spacegoat: Dec 23, 2003; by Jeffrey of YOSPOS; Nap Ghost

That'd make sense. It'd be pretty extreme if they just threw out battlefield roles altogether.

# ? Jan 27, 2015 19:52

Reynold: Feb 14, 2012; Suffer not the unclean to live.

Mango Polo posted:

No, you can still make an army with the usual FOC and cherry pick whatever you want from the unit list like a regular codex.

SO WHAT YOURE SAYING IS THAT MY ARMY IS NOW INVALIDATED AND I CANT PLAY ANYMORE GREAT I GUESS ILL JUST THROW MY TWO THOUSAND NECRONS IN THE TRASH THANKS GEE DUB

THIS CIOMPANY IS DISCONNECTED WITH ITS PLAYER BASE AND DOESNT UNDERSTAND ITS OWN GAME BLAH BLAH BLAHHH

# ? Jan 27, 2015 19:55

Mango Polo: Aug 4, 2007

Reynold posted:

SO WHAT YOURE SAYING IS THAT MY ARMY IS NOW INVALIDATED AND I CANT PLAY ANYMORE GREAT I GUESS ILL JUST THROW MY TWO THOUSAND NECRONS IN THE TRASH THANKS GEE DUB

THIS CIOMPANY IS DISCONNECTED WITH ITS PLAYER BASE AND DOESNT UNDERSTAND ITS OWN GAME BLAH BLAH BLAHHH

Don't blame GW. Blame yourself or god.

e. For actual discussion. Everything so far points to C'tans being able to fire off two powers a turn, since they are straight-up ranged weapons with no little asterisks anywhere to say otherwise. That and 12" movement sort of makes them a step up from before. Or maybe not, because "Powers of the C'tan" is in essence a single gun.

Go wild on leaked pictures.

Mango Polo fucked around with this message at 20:08 on Jan 27, 2015

# ? Jan 27, 2015 19:58

BULBASAUR: Apr 6, 2009; Soiled Meat

Mango Polo posted:

Holy poo poo.

Got drat. That's 40 points for a super fast terminator, basically. These things are going to be amazing for zone mortalis.

Sulecrist posted:

Here is the 30k Zone Mortalis force I'm considering. It's Legion-agnostic; I'll make a decision once we know more about HHV:

Praetor, Cataphractii Terminator Armour, Volkite Charger -142

Cataphractii Terminators (5) (mostly with axes/combi-bolters) Reaper Autocannon -190

Contemptor Dreadnought, 2x CCW/HF -195

Breacher Squad (11), 2x Graviton Guns, Lightning Claw -280

Tactical Squad (13) (all with BP/CCW), Power Sword -190

Can I get some feedback, especially on weapon loadouts?

Bulbasaur, this is pretty close to what we discussed last night, but I bumped it up to 1k because I was struggling to fit everything I really wanted into 750. I think it'll break down to 500 and 750 okay.

As you're finding, making a Legion list at a low point level is difficult. Your list is a good start for ZM. I'd tweak it a little bit though. Consider these options:

quote:

Praetor List
1000 points, the Praetor is attached to a terminator Command Squad which grants a 12" fearless bubble and is really powerful in melee. Apothecary goes with the Breachers. Tactical support squad with flamers will be really good in ZM. Due to all the flamer stuff this is a good salamader's list.

Praetor- 170
-Terminator Armor
-Paragon Blade
-Boarding Shield
-Melta Bombs

Command Squad 190/195
-4 dudes
-Terminator Armor
-Axes
-Heavy flamer/reaper

Breacher Squad 290
-Graviton guns
-Lightning claw
-AA

Apothacary 60
-AA

Tactical Support Squad 100
-x5 flamers

Contemptor Dreadnought- 195
-CCW x2
-Heavy flamer x2

quote:

Chaplain List
1000 points, the Chaplain is attached to the terminator squad which gives it fearless, zelot, and is really powerful in melee. Apothecary goes with the Breachers and provides interceptor. Again, due to all the flamer stuff, this is a good salamader's list.

Chaplain- 120
-Terminator Armor
-Power Sword
-Thunderhammer/Chainfist

Terminator Squad- 225/230
-6 dudes
-x3 Axes
-x3 lightning claws
-Heavy flamer/reaper

Breacher Squad 290
-Graviton guns
-Lightning claw
-AA

Apothacary 65
-AA
-Auguary Scanner

Tactical Support Squad 100
-x5 flamers

Contemptor Dreadnought- 195
-CCW x2
-Heavy flamer x2

The mechanics of both lists are basically. The former is better in melee, but a fair bit, but the latter is more resilient and has more bodies. Make sure to magnetize the arms on your contemptor and support squad!

# ? Jan 27, 2015 20:02

MasterSlowPoke: Oct 9, 2005; Our courage will pull us through

All of those formations own so hard. Even the Obelisk one (gotta buy an $165 Obelisk now to go with Fix's Monolith, thanks duder).

BULBASAUR posted:

Got drat. That's 40 points for a super fast terminator, basically. These things are going to be amazing for zone mortalis.

They won't be able to charge through walls, at least, as they still need LOS.

# ? Jan 27, 2015 20:02

Mango Polo: Aug 4, 2007

BULBASAUR posted:

Got drat. That's 40 points for a super fast terminator, basically. These things are going to be amazing for zone mortalis.

That's... pretty terrifying. And amazingly close to their fluff.

# ? Jan 27, 2015 20:04

BULBASAUR: Apr 6, 2009; Soiled Meat

I can't wait for FW to rain in on the new detachment gravy train. Build your own detachment here we come!

WhiteOutMouse posted:

So still no grenades for wraiths? T5 sounds good and beasts gives them fleet but what about assaulting into cover? I know they get some bonus initiative whips, but that would not help since they get reduced to zero after, right?

Can't have everything in a single unit :colbert:

# ? Jan 27, 2015 20:13

MasterSlowPoke: Oct 9, 2005; Our courage will pull us through

Ghost Ark guns are Salvo 5/10, which mean they always shoot 10 shots, even at long range.

Warriors are minimum 10, so you can't stick a character with them in an Ark anymore.

Praetorian Axes aren't Unwieldy (but only S5)

# ? Jan 27, 2015 20:13

Reynold: Feb 14, 2012; Suffer not the unclean to live.

Mango Polo posted:

Don't blame GW. Blame yourself or god.

More seriously, MY GIRLFRIEND plays Dark Harvest, hopefully there will be a FAQ or something to bring them up to speed soon. Until then I guess I'll just have to come up with some house rulings to keep things fair for her. Ugh.

I love the Forge World books and all of the options they provide for everything, but I wish they'd coordinate with the regular GW stuff a little better as far as the rulebooks being outdated and such.

# ? Jan 27, 2015 20:15

MasterSlowPoke: Oct 9, 2005; Our courage will pull us through

Forge World still hasn't issued FAQs for Orks or Eldar. Xenos don't get treated like Space Marines.

# ? Jan 27, 2015 20:18

Acebuckeye13: Nov 2, 2010; Against All Tyrants; Ultra Carp

There isn't even an FAQ for Guard, and they're one of the primary recipients of FW love. Someone really needs to light a fire under their rear end about it, since it's really getting to be ridiculous.

# ? Jan 27, 2015 20:31

Mango Polo: Aug 4, 2007

Tomb Blades are sweet.

quote:

Tomb Blades (54 points, Fast Attack, unit of 3)

WS4 BS4 S4 T5 W1 I2 A1 Ld10 Sv.4+

Twin linked gauss blasters

Reanimation Protocols

May include up to sevena dditional tomb blades (18 pts per model)
Any model may exchange twin linked gauss blasters fr twin linked tesla carbines(free) or particle beamers (2 pts per model)
Any model may take shieldvanes (2 pts per model)
Any model may take one of the following: Shadowloom (1pt per model), Nebulosocope (2 pts per model)

Nebuloscope grants Ignore Cover, Particle Beamers are S6 AP5 blasts.

# ? Jan 27, 2015 20:33

Slimnoid: Sep 6, 2012; Does that mean I don't get the job?

MasterSlowPoke posted:

Forge World still hasn't issued FAQs for Orks or Eldar. Xenos don't get treated like Space Marines.

There's SM stuff from FW that hasn't been updated (hello IA8) so it's more a symptom of the FW people not wanting to do anything that isn't directly tied to Horus Heresy material.

# ? Jan 27, 2015 20:47

Ghost Hand: Aug 10, 2004; Rampant 40k Fanboy

Slimnoid posted:

There's SM stuff from FW that hasn't been updated (hello IA8) so it's more a symptom of the FW people not wanting to do anything that isn't directly tied to Horus Heresy material.

That's not the driving factor. Driving factor is limited resources on multiple projects.

# ? Jan 27, 2015 20:54

Ghost Hand: Aug 10, 2004; Rampant 40k Fanboy

Mango Polo posted:

Holy poo poo.

And it seems like they are now Beasts. God drat.

On the other hand, now we know why barge lords got cheaper: they lost Sweep Attack

e.: Ghost Ark specifically states it can only carry Warriors and IC. The dream of assault Lychguards disappears.

Damnit - now I cant double them out with Thunderhammers....

# ? Jan 27, 2015 21:01

Tequila Ranger: Sep 11, 2004; host after host after host ...

Living Metal's "Roll a D6, on a 6 re-gain a HP" rolls are only for vehicles with the Heavy or Super Heavy rules... which is fine because I would have forgotten it anyway.

Wraiths are Beasts... and they have the "Beasts" rule. :stonklol:

# ? Jan 27, 2015 21:05

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# ? Jun 10, 2024 22:17

BULBASAUR: Apr 6, 2009; Soiled Meat

That's something I wish they'd hire some staff for- "live ops" on released books. A team dedicated to regular updates on existing material would go a long way to increase the shelf life of their products.

# ? Jan 27, 2015 21:06

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