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Literally The Worst posted:Skimming the wikipedia page about The Cissy this jumped out at me Clearly it's a conspiracy and Anita Sarkisian and the SJWs are blackmailing the South Park guys. (Ignores the fact that even loving Scientology couldn't blackmail SP). People are just horribly invested in insulting others and there's little to do about that. Effectronica posted:"Punching down/up" is a stupid idea, that subordinates everything into political struggle, and falls apart once we get outside simple comparisons. Wait, what?
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Jan 27, 2015 19:34
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Somehow Matt Stone and Trey Parker are swinging left in their middle age, although they still are maintaining their anarchic sympathies. Oh well, I'm much happier with them spouting anarcho-centrist/leftist principles than the proto-Tea Party/Libertarian crap they were known for until now.
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Jan 27, 2015 19:36
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Crain posted:Clearly it's a conspiracy and Anita Sarkisian and the SJWs are blackmailing the South Park guys. (Ignores the fact that even loving Scientology couldn't blackmail SP). Probably because they hadn't told the CoS anything in an auditing session that the Church was holding over their heads, not that they have ever or would ever do that.
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Jan 27, 2015 19:37
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Anita's criticisms are both incredibly shallow and very poorly supported, making her a hill to die on has been the mistake of pretty much every retarded MRA/tumblr hero over past few years.
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Jan 27, 2015 19:40
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Venom Snake posted:Anita's criticisms are both incredibly shallow and very poorly supported, making her a hill to die on has been the mistake of pretty much every retarded MRA/tumblr hero over past few years. It's almost like they're meant for stupid diaper babies first day of not treating women like objects or something! Almost like the intented audience isn't academic scholars with years of research under their belt. You don't get things so I'll spell it out: you're an idiot who doesn't get things.
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Jan 27, 2015 19:44
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Venom Snake posted:Anita's criticisms are both incredibly shallow and very poorly supported, making her a hill to die on has been the mistake of pretty much every retarded MRA/tumblr hero over past few years. the weakest trolls are usually the most effective her points are shallow by design, because the people who need to hear them most have to be lectured like preschoolers learning shapes and colors. i do wish she would substantiate more but it doesn't really matter, a lot of the internet debate lawyer style is about discrediting the details of an argument so that you can rest there and never grapple with the big picture message. she couldn't really support her arguments to the degree that people wouldn't sperg out about how her argument is clearly incorrect because she showed a picture of daisy when she meant peach etc. gun people do it too, if you call a magazine a clip or get the bayonet lug identification wrong clearly you're unqualified to discuss the public health effects of rampant gun ownership boner confessor fucked around with this message at 19:47 on Jan 27, 2015 |
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Jan 27, 2015 19:45
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Duke Igthorn posted:It's almost like they're meant for stupid diaper babies first day of not treating women like objects or something! Almost like the intented audience isn't academic scholars with years of research under their belt. Popular Thug Drink posted:the weakest trolls are usually the most effective That's exactly my point? She isn't really saying anything new and holding her up as some hero is just as stupid has thinking she is some sort of villain.
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Jan 27, 2015 19:47
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Venom Snake posted:That's exactly my point? She isn't really saying anything new and holding her up as some hero is just as stupid has thinking she is some sort of villain. yeah im not arguing with you tho i do think she's a hero in that not many people are willing to soak up the death threats and general idiocy just to repeat in a low steady tone "sexism... is... bad! sexism is bad." like it would be nice if there was a better pro-feminism in gaming advocate but eh you take what you get
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Jan 27, 2015 19:47
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Who here has actually watched any of her videos?
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Jan 27, 2015 19:49
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*raises paw*
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Jan 27, 2015 19:49
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Popular Thug Drink posted:yeah im not arguing with you I think it's at least fair to point out she is pretty shifty as she is extremely behind her deadlines in producing the videos she was given 140 thousand dollars to make. Honestly If you want to support equality in video games just vote with your wallet instead of buying what a head on a screen tells you to.
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Jan 27, 2015 19:50
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*two finger cool guy wave* Yo.
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Jan 27, 2015 19:50
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pretty sure social justice folks would not be choosing to die on Sarkeesian Hill if MRAs had not first chosen to assail it It's not that liberals think she is some sort of revelation: it's that they rightly think it is goddamn ridiculous that a girl can't go on the internet and say "womens' narrative and aesthetic role in these videogames is often limited by the patriarchy" without receiving a bunch of death-threats and photoshopped pictures of her being mutilated or spooged upon. PupsOfWar fucked around with this message at 20:04 on Jan 27, 2015 |
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Jan 27, 2015 19:51
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Popular Thug Drink posted:yeah uh its not just english speaking people who disagree with you who say this boo LOL even Jacobin criticized Charlie Hebdo. If you're a french leftist and you can't get Jacobin to like you, maybe you have problems.
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Jan 27, 2015 19:52
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Popular Thug Drink posted:gun people do it too, if you call a magazine a clip or get the bayonet lug identification wrong clearly you're unqualified to discuss the public health effects of rampant gun ownership Sorry for gunchat, but the difference here is that laws, specifically assault weapons bans, target these things like bayonet lugs that are basically cosmetic in civilians hands, but their proponents don't seem to understand what the hell they are. You end up with weird bans that effect guns mostly because they look threatening more than anything else.
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Jan 27, 2015 19:53
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The reason American's don't get Charlie Hebdo is because American satire doesn't exist.
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Jan 27, 2015 19:53
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Crain posted:Wait, what? The idea that the purpose of satire and irony is solely to attack the powerful in society, which is what is meant by that phrase, is a) pointlessly constraining and b) falls apart when you look outside of the narrow realm of politics. After all, where do academic satires, or Catskills comedy routines, fit into this vision? Even with all that, framing it in those terms still presents the whole of life as lived for politics, when a large part of liberating movements like feminism and antiracism is to allow people to have the luxury of disassociating the personal from the political.
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Jan 27, 2015 19:54
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Venom Snake posted:That's exactly my point? She isn't really saying anything new and holding her up as some hero is just as stupid has thinking she is some sort of villain. Sometimes it's OK to just not be bad, you can be supportive of something someone does while not thinking they are the 3rd coming of bell hooks
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Jan 27, 2015 19:56
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Zeitgueist posted:Sometimes it's OK to just not be bad, you can be supportive of something someone does while not thinking they are the 3rd coming of bell hooks Well considering she took 140 thousand dollars of peoples money, people who wanted to actually make a difference in video games and proceeded to make videos that were exactly the same has her original ones production values wise while releasing them far slower I really wouldn't say she is "not bad". Regardless, if you want honest criticism of sexism in media there is plenty of stuff out their far more engaging than "Tropes in Video Games"
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Jan 27, 2015 19:59
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Venom Snake posted:I think it's at least fair to point out she is pretty shifty as she is extremely behind her deadlines in producing the videos she was given 140 thousand dollars to make. Honestly If you want to support equality in video games just vote with your wallet instead of buying what a head on a screen tells you to. your first and second statements here directly contradict each other lol "she can't be trusted because people gave her too much money. anyway it's better if people vote by giving money to causes they support" it isn't shifty at all, this is just anti-anita framing to explain why she is still bad and unpopular even after many people gave her a hundred grand for no good reason other than they liked what she had to say Venom Snake posted:Regardless, if you want honest criticism of sexism in media there is plenty of stuff out their far more engaging than "Tropes in Video Games" her criticism is honest and effective, so effective that whenever she does release new content the people who despise her (who are the ones who really need to see what she has to say) can't shut up about her and watch like four different takedowns of her work like her biggest audience are the people who hate her the most that is crazy good roi
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Jan 27, 2015 19:59
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Popular Thug Drink posted:yeah uh its not just english speaking people who disagree with you who say this boo Yes, you can cherry-pick a Frenchman or two who will agree with you. I guess you could say he's one of the good ones.  It's pointless to go into it here, there was/is a thread, there's a whole website dedicated to explaining the context of those cartoons, what none of those change is that "leftists" spent zero time starting to excoriate the CH board and their work while barely knowing anything about it as their bodies were not yet buried, and that is something that they should feel deeply, deeply ashamed about. Furthermore, this kind of behavior would absolutely not be accepted if we were talking about a rape victim or an African American. And yet a bunch of "leftists" sound like they're asking why she had to dress so provocatively in a bad neighborhood or why he was wearing a hoodie, doesn't he know it's intimidating? Not that they're saying they deserved it, mind, they're just saying it's mighty peculiar that the victim was acting in this way. Zeitgueist posted:LOL even Jacobin criticized Charlie Hebdo. All this does is make me glad I only subscribed to them for one year. Absurd Alhazred fucked around with this message at 20:03 on Jan 27, 2015 |
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Jan 27, 2015 19:59
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Popular Thug Drink posted:your first and second statements here directly contradict each other lol I meant that if you think a video game is sexist don't buy it, if you think it's okay then buy it.
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Jan 27, 2015 20:00
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Absurd Alhazred posted:Yes, you can cherry-pick a Frenchman or two who will agree with you. I guess you could say he's one of the good ones. i'm just curious if your argument to dismiss these opinions is "you're just anglos who don't understand the cultural context" what you would say if i presented the same argument but coming from a guy who worked at charlie hebdo and knows many of the slain personally in a professional context. like how much more of an expert opinion could you get i'm disappointed you didn't even put any effort into dismissing the uncomfortable opinion, you just accused me of cherry picking. lazy lazy lazy
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Jan 27, 2015 20:01
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Venom Snake posted:Well considering she took 140 thousand dollars of peoples money, people who wanted to actually make a difference in video games and proceeded to make videos that were exactly the same has her original ones production values wise while releasing them far slower I really wouldn't say she is "not bad". If you couldn't afford to give to a kickstarter don't give to a kickstarter. When you start trotting out "she took our money!"  you're starting to sound like a concern troll.quote:Regardless, if you want honest criticism of sexism in media there is plenty of stuff out their far more engaging than "Tropes in Video Games" Her videos weren't made for people who want deeper analysis than that. Her videos were made to be 101-level feminist analysis of tropes in video games, oddly enough. Considering that made a huge impression on the community I'd say it was well done.
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Jan 27, 2015 20:02
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Venom Snake posted:I think it's at least fair to point out she is pretty shifty as she is extremely behind her deadlines in producing the videos she was given 140 thousand dollars to make. Honestly If you want to support equality in video games just vote with your wallet instead of buying what a head on a screen tells you to.
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Jan 27, 2015 20:03
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Venom Snake posted:I think it's at least fair to point out she is pretty shifty as she is extremely behind her deadlines in producing the videos she was given 140 thousand dollars to make. Honestly If you want to support equality in video games just vote with your wallet instead of buying what a head on a screen tells you to. It shouldn't have to be said this guy is a loving idiot, but this guy is a loving idiot.
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Jan 27, 2015 20:04
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Zeitgueist posted:If you couldn't afford to give to a kickstarter don't give to a kickstarter. When you start trotting out "she took our money!" I'm not trying to concern troll, she is no different than many kickstarter people who are either far behind deadline or are just failing deliver overall. If you promise something to people in exchange for money you should do your best to deliver. Edit: I'll drop the subject, I really had no idea people felt so passionately about it here.
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Jan 27, 2015 20:05
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Popular Thug Drink posted:i'm just curious if your argument to dismiss these opinions is "you're just anglos who don't understand the cultural context" what you would say if i presented the same argument but coming from a guy who worked at charlie hebdo and knows many of the slain personally in a professional context. like how much more of an expert opinion could you get Charlie Hebdo were no angels.
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Jan 27, 2015 20:05
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Venom Snake posted:I meant that if you think a video game is sexist don't buy it, if you think it's okay then buy it. people already do this though. "if you dont like it dont buy it" is not exactly uh what we would call a well considered argument against sexism in gaming
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Jan 27, 2015 20:05
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Popular Thug Drink posted:i'm just curious if your argument to dismiss these opinions is "you're just anglos who don't understand the cultural context" what you would say if i presented the same argument but coming from a guy who worked at charlie hebdo and knows many of the slain personally in a professional context. like how much more of an expert opinion could you get The actual laziness is coming to this thread and bringing this rehashed crap when we've already had thousands of posts worth of discussion of it in a dedicated thread. I'm dismissing it so lightly because I've already read over that idiot who was complaining about how things were under Val and there is also a response to him by another board member calling him out on his bullshit. But sure, I mean, if you can find this one disgruntled ex-employee to poo poo all over a newspaper, you've won. Terrific.
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Jan 27, 2015 20:05
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Absurd Alhazred posted:The actual laziness is coming to this thread and bringing this rehashed crap when we've already had thousands of posts worth of discussion of it in a dedicated thread. I'm dismissing it so lightly because I've already read over that idiot who was complaining about how things were under Val and there is also a response to him by another board member calling him out on his bullshit. But sure, I mean, if you can find this one disgruntled ex-employee to poo poo all over a newspaper, you've won. Terrific. it's not about winning broham like i said i wanted to see if you would continue to dismiss opinions you don't like on superficial grounds and sure enough, also "read this giant garbage thread" is not something a reasonable person would do
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Jan 27, 2015 20:07
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Absurd Alhazred posted:The actual laziness is coming to this thread and bringing this rehashed crap when we've already had thousands of posts worth of discussion of it in a dedicated thread. I'm dismissing it so lightly because I've already read over that idiot who was complaining about how things were under Val and there is also a response to him by another board member calling him out on his bullshit. But sure, I mean, if you can find this one disgruntled ex-employee to poo poo all over a newspaper, you've won. Terrific. You can't really ask American's to understand how satire works when it's been pretty much dead lying in the bottom of a well for about 20 years.
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Jan 27, 2015 20:07
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Popular Thug Drink posted:it's not about winning broham like i said i wanted to see if you would continue to dismiss opinions you don't like on superficial grounds and sure enough, What's the opinion, exactly? Because "CH did not deserve to die but they were some kind of racists" is not what I would consider anything other than superficial.
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Jan 27, 2015 20:08
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nsdIHK8O5yo
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Jan 27, 2015 20:08
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Ultimately Sarkeesian's videos should be considered in the same light as the Bechdel test: something that provides a lightweight "huh, I never thought of it that way!" entry point for the open-minded but uninformed into more serious conversations about feminism in media Nobody really questions Bechdel's feminist cred despite her most famous namesake being a lightweight and shallow rule-of-thumb. That is because it is a pedagogical tool.
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Jan 27, 2015 20:09
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Popular Thug Drink posted:it's not about winning broham like i said i wanted to see if you would continue to dismiss opinions you don't like on superficial grounds and sure enough, Again. There is a thread. I spent all of my effort there. I am done with being more than trite about this issue. People who are interested can also read this website, which goes over many of the very cartoons stupid, ignorant, self-aggrandizing Anglo-American leftists have used to excoriate these people, and explains what the context is. Read them. Don't read them. I don't care anymore.
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Jan 27, 2015 20:09
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Venom Snake posted:Well considering she took 140 thousand dollars of peoples money, people who wanted to actually make a difference in video games and proceeded to make videos that were exactly the same has her original ones production values wise while releasing them far slower I really wouldn't say she is "not bad". I don't remember hearing much about the issue until her kickstarter got going. A hundred and forty grand for that level of advertising seems like a real steal, doesn't it?
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Jan 27, 2015 20:11
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Effectronica posted:What's the opinion, exactly? Because "CH did not deserve to die but they were some kind of racists" is not what I would consider anything other than superficial. is this one of those things where i need to assert that i believe murder is bad before we start talking about the other thing Absurd Alhazred posted:Again. There is a thread. I spent all of my effort there. I am done with being more than trite about this issue. People who are interested can also read this website, which goes over many of the very cartoons stupid, ignorant, self-aggrandizing Anglo-American leftists have used to excoriate these people, and explains what the context is. Read them. Don't read them. I don't care anymore. im not going to read that huge flaming midden of a thread just to get some insight about why you have a stick up your rear end about internet leftists
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Jan 27, 2015 20:11
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Venom Snake posted:I'm not trying to concern troll, she is no different than many kickstarter people who are either far behind deadline or are just failing deliver overall. If you promise something to people in exchange for money you should do your best to deliver. We're the ones who feel so strongly She makes videos that rile up shithead gamers and introduce folks to basic feminism concepts who may not have encountered them before, that's the purpose. Constantly posting about her failings is much more telling, don't project the "care" on people who've had to deal with people trotting out the same criticisms of her videos since the first one came out.
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Jan 27, 2015 20:11
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I think the "she took money and then did nothing" fails as a criticism because that's a) not unique to anything on the internet, even major studios and b) she has produced videos. Criticizing her for being behind schedule is fine, I guess, but still only tangential at best. She is still dealing with thousands of rear end in a top hat constantly harassing her. Also keep in mind that she's been invited around to many industry events and to talks at major developers. I can forgive her for delaying the internet videos that the target audience has made clear that they won't accept the message, in lieu of talking to people who are receptive and can actually change the way women/minorities are represented in gaming.
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Jan 27, 2015 20:12
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