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Oh but those numbers are from the CDC. Everyone knows you can't trust them.
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Jan 27, 2015 20:08
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Oh, it's also become a conservative talking point that the measles outbreak is happening because of illegal immigrants.
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Jan 27, 2015 20:28
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Elderbean posted:Oh, it's also become a conservative talking point that the measles outbreak is happening because of illegal immigrants. Did anybody point out that that isn't really mutually exclusive with the idea that it's happening because of stupid people not vaccinating their children?
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Jan 27, 2015 20:46
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Elderbean posted:Oh, it's also become a conservative talking point that the measles outbreak is happening because of illegal immigrants. Doesn't Mexico have a much higher vaccination rate than America?
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Jan 27, 2015 21:04
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ToxicSlurpee posted:Doesn't Mexico have a much higher vaccination rate than America? There was a bigger outbreak a few years back - i think in BC - that was initially caused by an immigrant from India. Not Mexico though. I haven't even heard of Mexico having measles outbreaks at all. Their healthcare is crazy inexpensive and people are very happy to use it from my understanding.
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Jan 27, 2015 23:33
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Tigntink posted:There was a bigger outbreak a few years back - i think in BC - that was initially caused by an immigrant from India. Not Mexico though. I haven't even heard of Mexico having measles outbreaks at all. Their healthcare is crazy inexpensive and people are very happy to use it from my understanding. uncultured fools
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Jan 27, 2015 23:41
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ToxicSlurpee posted:Doesn't Mexico have a much higher vaccination rate than America? Yeah, Mexico and most of South America has vaccination rates of around 98%, compared to around 90~91% in the U.S.A. A few sane conservatives actually occasionally try to point that out. Majority Catholic third world countries really have nothing against vaccinations, and have a pretty good idea what it's like living with a horrible disease. So if you want to someone to blame for disease outbreaks, blame the hippies. There are some countries like Pakistan, that consider vaccines CIA plots. Which is kind of a fair cop, since the CIA did use vaccinations as an excuse to try to find OBL. As soon as that became public knowledge, they've been banned from doing that. It was huge gently caress up by the CIA. thrakkorzog fucked around with this message at 12:13 on Jan 28, 2015 |
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Jan 28, 2015 11:19
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poo poo might be about to get even more serious  quote:Health officials believe the Phoenix-area woman recently diagnosed with measles may have exposed as many as 195 children to the disease at the Phoenix Children's East Valley Center on Jan. 20 and 21. http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2015/01/28/arizona-measles-disneyland-outbreak-phoenix-children/22452491/
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Jan 28, 2015 18:43
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Well that certainly is the pick-me-upper I needed today. There are a lot of factors which will be at play, but even if everyone is vaccinated and not immunocompromised we will see more cases. Just going off what information is I the article, given that's the place is a medical establishment I would half expect more adults to have been exposed than children. The number seems more like a how many children were present at the time as opposed to a real estimate. I hope anyway.
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Jan 28, 2015 19:08
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torpedan posted:Well that certainly is the pick-me-upper I needed today. There are a lot of factors which will be at play, but even if everyone is vaccinated and not immunocompromised we will see more cases.
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Jan 28, 2015 19:16
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The real concern here is whether or not it'll spread to Seattle's defense. Measles could deflate their ability to stop Gronk.
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Jan 28, 2015 19:27
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thrakkorzog posted:Yeah, Mexico and most of South America has vaccination rates of around 98%, compared to around 90~91% in the U.S.A. A few sane conservatives actually occasionally try to point that out. Majority Catholic third world countries really have nothing against vaccinations, and have a pretty good idea what it's like living with a horrible disease. So if you want to someone to blame for disease outbreaks, blame the hippies. Not only did the CIA use vaccination as a means to finding OBL, but they didn't even use real vaccines. So now Polio is on the rebound in Pakistan because the CIA fake-injected a bunch of people who thought they were being immunized to Polio.
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Jan 28, 2015 19:40
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ActusRhesus posted:Look, after the whole cry it out debate I think we've already established I'm the world's worst parent. Today thanks to the Snowpocalypse I let her help me play mass effect. Tyke's got a knack for.headshots. My 18-month-old son managed to unlock a challenge in Smash Bros. by landing a 30-hit combo in Training mode. I was out of the room for a few seconds, and I can't begin to imagine how he did that.
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Jan 28, 2015 19:45
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QuarkJets posted:Not only did the CIA use vaccination as a means to finding OBL, but they didn't even use real vaccines. So now Polio is on the rebound in Pakistan because the CIA fake-injected a bunch of people who thought they were being immunized to Polio. Huh, one of the many things the Pakistani government charged Shakil Afridi with is taking boxes of WHO vaccines without authorization. This seemed to support the CIA's claim that there were real vaccinations given by real healthcare workers (this part at least is absolutely true), but under false pretenses. I also thought it was a fake Hepatitis B immunization drive they used, not Polio. Either way it's damaging to the efforts of legitimate health workers, but it seems there's contention in the areas you're talking about. Warbadger fucked around with this message at 20:47 on Jan 28, 2015 |
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Jan 28, 2015 20:29
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mdemone posted:My 18-month-old son managed to unlock a challenge in Smash Bros. by landing a 30-hit combo in Training mode. I was out of the room for a few seconds, and I can't begin to imagine how he did that. Button mashing.
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Jan 28, 2015 20:30
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thrakkorzog posted:So if you want to someone to blame for disease outbreaks, blame the hippies.
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Jan 28, 2015 23:32
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mdemone posted:My 18-month-old son managed to unlock a challenge in Smash Bros. by landing a 30-hit combo in Training mode. I was out of the room for a few seconds, and I can't begin to imagine how he did that. loving meta-knight. Ban him. vvvvvv "Voxx" 
Discendo Vox fucked around with this message at 00:46 on Jan 29, 2015 |
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Jan 28, 2015 23:46
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eNeMeE posted:It's generally suburbanites with disposable income, and crosses political divides, so 'hippies' aren't really the problem. Pretty much this. It goes 2 ways - either its people who are crazy and think the government is going to put microchips in their vaccines or mind control devices or its crazy crystal people who also think they are poison.
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Jan 29, 2015 00:15
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People who do not vaccinate are difficult to typecast. There are going to be plenty of people who fall into the crunchy camp, but many people who have not vaccinated simply do out of fear and lack of knowledge. As mentioned by Voxx earlier, fear can often lead to people making incorrect decisions when presented with conflicting information. There are plenty of people who are completely off the deep end, but at the end of the day everyone is trying to do what they think is right (hence why you are seeing more people going out and getting their children vaccinated as the situation changes.)
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Jan 29, 2015 00:27
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quote:US anti-vaccination campaigner Dr Sherri Tenpenny cancels tour of Australia Cross-posting, but yes pro-vaccination people are now bomb throwing terrorists.
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Jan 29, 2015 07:26
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Lid posted:Cross-posting, but yes pro-vaccination people are now bomb throwing terrorists. If the threats were real (lol), they would be...less unjustifiable than some threats.
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Jan 29, 2015 07:42
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eNeMeE posted:It's generally suburbanites with disposable income, and crosses political divides, so 'hippies' aren't really the problem. Then why do I keep seeing calls to "more natural ways", rants about the evil money hungry ways of "Big Pharma"/FDA/Monsanto and so on? I get that they don't compromise 100% of anti-vaxxers, but to shove them under the rug and say "well both sides are bad" seems really naive. Conservatives aren't the ones calling for folks to rely on "Mother Nature" or to "listen to the wisdom of thousands of generations of mothers", while pulling out their healing crystals and so on. Every time I hear this I can't help but think it's someone who doesn't want to believe that the left has their own issues with science. Believe it, they do.
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Jan 29, 2015 08:16
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Solkanar512 posted:Then why do I keep seeing calls to "more natural ways", rants about the evil money hungry ways of "Big Pharma"/FDA/Monsanto and so on? I get that they don't compromise 100% of anti-vaxxers, but to shove them under the rug and say "well both sides are bad" seems really naive. Conservatives aren't the ones calling for folks to rely on "Mother Nature" or to "listen to the wisdom of thousands of generations of mothers", while pulling out their healing crystals and so on. http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/2011/04/27/more-polling-data-on-the-politics-of-vaccine-resistance/ http://www.fiercevaccines.com/story/survey-anti-vaccine-views-have-little-correlation-politics/2014-01-29 https://today.yougov.com/news/2012/12/05/public-support-vaccination-remains-strong/ quote:There was a modest minority of respondents who held a negative orientation toward vaccines. Lid posted:
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Jan 29, 2015 08:36
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Solkanar512 posted:Then why do I keep seeing calls to "more natural ways", rants about the evil money hungry ways of "Big Pharma"/FDA/Monsanto and so on? I get that they don't compromise 100% of anti-vaxxers, but to shove them under the rug and say "well both sides are bad" seems really naive. Conservatives aren't the ones calling for folks to rely on "Mother Nature" or to "listen to the wisdom of thousands of generations of mothers", while pulling out their healing crystals and so on. Have you ever been to suburbia or met a suburbanite? Honest question; it's an important thing to think about in this kind of situation. The reason this sort of thing happens, and this also factors in to upper class white suburbanites often being lolbertarian or conservative shits, is that in suburbia it's very, very easy to create a little social bubble and yourself and your community. Suburbanites generally move to the suburbs to get away from all the terrifying poo poo in the city like, you know, people different than me and people who believe things different from what I do. It becomes unbelievably easy to totally isolate yourself from the rest of the world. This is why you have entire communities where the vaccination rate is like 30%. These people do not view the world outside their community as relevant and believe that the entirety of the rest of the world is actively trying to harm them. These are people that will pat each other on the back for being afraid of them and not trusting them. These are also people who likely don't have jobs that require them to deal with the public. This insular attitude and insular life leads them to just plain not seeing anything they do not want to see. Unwelcome things are kept out of the bubble. Like was said it's often upper middle class white people with disposable incomes. These are people with more time on their hands than, say, a poor person would have on top of a view of themselves as better and special just because of their social class. These are also the same people that buy into the Indigo Children bullshit (hello Jenny McCarthy, how are you today?). Your average hippie is socially aware enough to understand that your actions affect others and you should care about that. Suburbanites only care what happens within their bubble and the rest of the world can get hosed. Since they have never seen first hand the awful poo poo these diseases can do they just don't care but the off chance that their child might become autistic is the end of the loving world. These are also people that expect to raise the next generation's doctors, lawyers, leaders, and scientists so anything at all that threatens that must not enter their bubble. These are people that also sometimes believe that their children are exceptional in every way and are thus just flat out never going to have to deal with those diseases that you mere mortals have to deal with. Disease is something that happens to poor people and is brought on by how much poor people suck. I, a non-poor person living in the suburbs, am untouchable by such things.
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Jan 29, 2015 08:49
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I don't think that hippie is the right term to use here. The average antivaxxer is a suburban mom, not what I imagine when I hear the word "hippie"
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Jan 29, 2015 09:22
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QuarkJets posted:I don't think that hippie is the right term to use here. The average antivaxxer is a suburban mom, not what I imagine when I hear the word "hippie" All the hippies grew up to be suburban moms like everybody else. There are five actual hippies left on Earth despite the best efforts of a captive breeding program.
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Jan 29, 2015 09:25
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I think it's safe to say that there are a lot of people in the New Age movement that are anti-vaxx though. That whole lifestyle promotes natural healing and usually comes paired with anti-corporate ideologies.
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Jan 29, 2015 09:36
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lmao, from a friend of a facebook friend,quote:I'm not worried about the pro-vaxxers- there is a plethora of evidence that points to the fact that they are rapidly injecting themselves with their own executions. The recent outbreaks of measles in the US- and the deaths of *vaccinated individuals outweighing any other group*- indicate that their own mythologies are rapidly approaching to kick them into extinction. I'm focusing on keeping my immune system boosted through consciousness and awareness of what debilitates it and ignoring the hysteria about disease, which is, after all, *energetic* at its core, just like everything else. Let the walking dead bury the actual dead.
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Jan 29, 2015 11:10
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ActusRhesus posted:Look, after the whole cry it out debate I think we've already established I'm the world's worst parent. Today thanks to the Snowpocalypse I let her help me play mass effect. Tyke's got a knack for.headshots. World's best mom itt (I loving love Mass Effect) OK, thread, so, look WE know that all the anti-vacc stuff is bullshit. So, what is in it for the people espousing this absolutely wrong message? Like, no doubt it has it's true believers but...somewhere this started off as some weird form of petty-rear end malice. It has to have. Right? Like this poo poo flat out makes no sense to me. Vaccines are loving amazing. How do you find a doctor to stone-face go 'This poo poo will kill your children' and set off national panic? It's like fluoride. Everyone tells me it's awful for me, but no one can explain why.
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Jan 29, 2015 11:31
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Armani posted:World's best mom itt (I loving love Mass Effect) The original source of 'vaccines cause Autism' was caused by 'Dr.' Andrew Wakefield. He had developed an alternative MMR vaccine, but there was a problem, nobody wanted to buy his new MMR vaccine since the old MMR vaccine already worked pretty well and was cheaper to boot. So faced with millions of dollars on the line, he made up a study, saying that the old MMR vaccine causes autism, and as a sales point, his new MMR vaccine didn't cause autism. His studies have been savaged to the point that everybody who ever had anything to do with him has pretty much recanted anything to do with him. That lead to a lot of people just thinking that all vaccines cause autism. Who is actually shocked that Jenny McCarthy doesn't keep up with the latest advances in medical journals? So yeah, some doctors will commit malpractice with dollar signs in their eyes. The medical community will quickly shun them, its only the alternative medicine quacks who entertain his presence. But they're getting rich off the anti-vax community. thrakkorzog fucked around with this message at 13:59 on Jan 29, 2015 |
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Jan 29, 2015 12:42
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Wakefield originally wanted to scare people off the MMR so they'd get M, M and R vaccines separately (he had a measles treatment). Now he's just playing the wingnut welfare game. It's a messy pile of terrible (he almost killed one of the 12 kids he used in the study, I think) and "Brian Deer Wakefield" should get enough Google hits for anyone's curiosity.
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Jan 29, 2015 13:05
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Lid posted:Cross-posting, but yes pro-vaccination people are now bomb throwing terrorists. It is unfortunate that this article gives so much weight to comments from Tenpenny and her supporters. It very much seems the article suffers from a false balance and if read from an more unbiased view could very easily be taken to be supporting her.
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Jan 29, 2015 14:28
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torpedan posted:It is unfortunate that this article gives so much weight to comments from Tenpenny and her supporters. It very much seems the article suffers from a false balance and if read from an more unbiased view could very easily be taken to be supporting her. This article is written in a country that is very very very very pro-vaccination overall with only very few areas, mostly remnants of the hippy age, are against them. The articles mostly are pretty much statin g "laugh at these loving loonies" hence why rather than take the threats seriously its pointed out the only threats came from her end.
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Jan 29, 2015 14:37
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ToxicSlurpee posted:Have you ever been to suburbia or met a suburbanite? Honest question; it's an important thing to think about in this kind of situation. The reason this sort of thing happens, and this also factors in to upper class white suburbanites often being lolbertarian or conservative shits, is that in suburbia it's very, very easy to create a little social bubble and yourself and your community. Suburbanites generally move to the suburbs to get away from all the terrifying poo poo in the city like, you know, people different than me and people who believe things different from what I do. It becomes unbelievably easy to totally isolate yourself from the rest of the world. This is why you have entire communities where the vaccination rate is like 30%. These people do not view the world outside their community as relevant and believe that the entirety of the rest of the world is actively trying to harm them. These are people that will pat each other on the back for being afraid of them and not trusting them. These are also people who likely don't have jobs that require them to deal with the public. This is the most elitist pile of crap I've seen on this thread. Basically you prove this point: Solkanar512 posted:Every time I hear this I can't help but think it's someone who doesn't want to believe that the left has their own issues with science. Believe it, they do. ActusRhesus fucked around with this message at 15:35 on Jan 29, 2015 |
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Jan 29, 2015 15:30
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ToxicSlurpee posted:Suburban Hell Yes, I live north of Seattle. I've seen a good bit of that, but with a heavy dose of yoga, kombucha tea and an obsession with everything being all-natural all piled into the back of a second generation Subaru Outback with their two dogs. They're all modern hippies. Interestingly enough, Wakefield and McCarthy are never mentioned, it's always Big Bad Pharma making MONEY on UNNATURAL TOXIC POISONS that WILL KILL YOU DEAD BECAUSE MY ACUPUNCTURIST/CHIROPRACTOR/"DOCTOR" SAID SO. That isn't the sort of language you see on your typical conservative news site. I'm not going to deny the existence of "GET THE GOVERNMENT OUT OF MY BODY" types, but they're not the ones living on the coasts and clustering together to destroy herd immunity as we know it.
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Jan 29, 2015 16:01
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Solkanar512 posted:Yes, I live north of Seattle. Everything you're written I've seen personally, but with a heavy dose of yoga, kombucha tea and an obsession with everything being all-natural all piled into the back of a second generation Subaru Outback with their two dogs. Interestingly enough, Wakefield and McCarthy are never mentioned, it's always Big Bad Pharma making MONEY on UNNATURAL TOXIC POISONS that WILL KILL YOU DEAD BECAUSE MY ACUPUNCTURIST/CHIROPRACTOR/"DOCTOR" SAID SO. That isn't the sort of language you see on your typical conservative news site. Oh don't worry the conservative side is equally as bad with praying whooping cough away. Except we know the only thing going away is the diaphragm's ability to suck in delicious oxygen.
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Jan 29, 2015 16:04
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Can we just agree that there are anti-vax nutjobs across the political spectrum and stop treating this as an us vs. them political superiority thing?
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Jan 29, 2015 16:12
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ActusRhesus posted:This is the most elitist pile of crap I've seen on this thread. I wasn't accusing suburbanites of all being conservative shits but rather pointing out how people in the suburbs create these little bubbles where outside views are not welcome. Some communities go full on anti-vax crazy and others go full lolbertarian. It depends on the community. The other side of it is these people actually, you know, have money so they're often the target for marketing, up to and including pseudoscientific "medical" bullshit.
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Jan 29, 2015 16:16
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ActusRhesus posted:Can we just agree that there are anti-vax nutjobs across the political spectrum and stop treating this as an us vs. them political superiority thing? For me, it's about being some who is on the left calling out those on "my side". It's not about scoring points but rather ensuring that "my side" isn't taken over by anti-science pieces of poo poo.
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Jan 29, 2015 16:21
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Look, I'm sorry it makes you uncomfortable, but the people in those demographics are the one who give the anti-vaccine movement power. They have disproportionate political influence compared to other groups, who are generally marginalized in comparison. Minorities in America have reason to be suspicious of medical institutions due to past exploitation, but they are not as politically powerful due to continued racism against them. Hippies are still treated with enough scorn that they're essentially locked out of the discussion. The suburban white supporters come from both the fringe left and right, but they generally fit the descriptions in this thread, and they're just different flavors of the same dangerous, negligent, selfish idiots. Without their support, the problem would not be nearly as widespread.
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Jan 29, 2015 16:23
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