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FISHMANPET posted:Is Machi Koro any good? My wife and I were at a game night and someone had just picked it up so 4 of us played it. My wife won by basically just not buying anything beyond a few starter cards and then just hoarding cash until she could flip all the attractions. I was the only one that ever really rolled 2 dice, and it never really helped me. I tried to formulate some kind of strategy based on what numbers were likely to come up (aka buy cards that activated on as many rolls as possible) but there just aren't that many options. It was enjoyable but it didn't really seem very deep, was I missing something? You're not missing anything. My wife loves this game, which she calls the "cheese game" (vaguely remembering that she scored big with the cheese factory); it has mostly supplanted the Princess game and the Train game. It's a very casual, very luck-driven slot machine game.
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Jan 27, 2015 18:31
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fozzy fosbourne posted:I'm curious how much can be automated while keeping the boardgame charm. The big dilemma I see with automation is that you then make mechanics opaque or "mystified". One of the really great things about board games is every mechanic is completely exposed and thrust in your face because you have to manage it, while in many video games the mechanics aren't even revealed unless some gamefaq sperglord reverse engineers it. The other subtle aspect of manual bookkeeping vs automation is that the former forces a complexity ceiling in a game. I hear you. Though XCOM from what I understand is more a "time pressure" thing than a "intelligent opposition" thing. I think it's interesting and want to try it, and look forward to what gets tried next in this area. But AI is hard, even for videogames. Board game automated opponents mostly boil down to glorified timers and big piles of dumb resources. The day the "bad guy" in a board game can take into account the game state and shift tactics to compensate will.... probably be the day you realize the game would work better as an iPad app or something 
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Jan 27, 2015 18:35
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PerniciousKnid posted:You're not missing anything. My wife loves this game, which she calls the "cheese game" (vaguely remembering that she scored big with the cheese factory); it has mostly supplanted the Princess game and the Train game. It's a very casual, very luck-driven slot machine game. It's more interesting with the expansion, although if you really like the base game, you probably won't care for the expansion.
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Jan 27, 2015 18:49
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Scyther posted:I can count on one hand the number of kickstarter games that should have made it into wide distribution and general awareness but didn't. Define your terms. Here in the UK I haven't been into a game shop in the last year that wasn't stocking Dreadball.
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Jan 27, 2015 19:00
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I'm teaching Game of Thrones to some middleweight gamers this weekend (haven't played it myself). How much would it break the game to play, say, eight rounds instead of ten if it's running long? I'd like to keep the game under six hours, and the group had a mixed record on timeliness.Lorini posted:It's more interesting with the expansion, although if you really like the base game, you probably won't care for the expansion. PerniciousKnid fucked around with this message at 19:06 on Jan 27, 2015 |
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Jan 27, 2015 19:04
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Mister Sinewave posted:I hear you. Though XCOM from what I understand is more a "time pressure" thing than a "intelligent opposition" thing. I think it's interesting and want to try it, and look forward to what gets tried next in this area. COIN can sort of do this, although the AI is unable to plan beyond some basic scripted stuff (like Castro's AI will default towards marching on Havana). Speaking of, Lorini posted:SO CUTE!!!! Might have to get the Farmers ones for Caverna. I wonder if you can get these as COIN pieces.
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Jan 27, 2015 19:19
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PerniciousKnid posted:I'm teaching Game of Thrones to some middleweight gamers this weekend (haven't played it myself). How much would it break the game to play, say, eight rounds instead of ten if it's running long? I'd like to keep the game under six hours, and the group had a mixed record on timeliness. Probably doesn't matter if you cut it down, the winning condition is castle ownership or whatever it was so it'll just be whoever controls the most by the end of whatever round number you decide as final.
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Jan 27, 2015 19:22
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I haven't even played a full game yet but there's no way it should take 6 hours, teaching included. I'm thinking 3-4 at most.
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Jan 27, 2015 19:27
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StashAugustine posted:COIN can sort of do this, although the AI is unable to plan beyond some basic scripted stuff (like Castro's AI will default towards marching on Havana). That's neat, I haven't really looked at any of the COIN games yet. That's the series that includes "Cuba Libre" and a couple others, right?
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Jan 27, 2015 19:35
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quote:But AI is hard, even for videogames. Board game automated opponents mostly boil down to glorified timers and big piles of dumb resources. I think what most board game opponents need isn't more intelligence but less options. In a game like Flashpoint, the "opponent" often has very strong moves available, but randomly may choose to do a weak one instead. That signal, the strength of the board's moves, often overwhelms the player input (for good or bad, and neither is satisfying). It's like the "good and bad things deck" problem; for every time it evens out to a good experience, there's another game or two that's wrecked by being too easy or too hard. And it incentivizes unsatisfying play, where to play effectively you often have to take risks and hope the opponent does something dumb - and the game success comes down to whether it does or doesn't (post-choice, did-I-win randomness). Without a proper AI, it's difficult to have any sort of randomness without effectively randomizing the result. Some games manage this by minimizing the opponent's choice space. For whatever else is bad about Sentinels (and there's lots), I think they actually got close here (excepting some really imbalanced and timing dependent stuff). The AI has a reasonably small set of stuff they're going to do, and the only random variance is order. At its best, you're presented with a fairly consistent level of challenge for a given villain/hero setup. And it can go further, to no randomness. The opponent in Theseus and the Minotaur has no choices, but the game (or puzzle, if you want) works really well. The problem with something like Theseus is that it requires a lot of information for setup (exact placements for walls, etc) to effectively convey the opponent from designer to player. What I'd like to see (or see more of), is games where the AI plays out predictably for a given setup - but where there's ways of specifying setup "seeds" quickly, so that you can play against "known good" boards with minimal setup and without necessarily being able to see from the seed what's coming. Like, we usually play Dominion with someone's recommended list of kingdoms. I'd like to see more co-ops where you could get this kind of set scenario, specified without that much information, and play against a fair, consistent challenge. (Another possibility here is a game AI book - something like Tales, but for opponent behavior? Have some decision points, maybe even some semi-responsive story.)
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Jan 27, 2015 19:38
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Mister Sinewave posted:That's neat, I haven't really looked at any of the COIN games yet. That's the series that includes "Cuba Libre" and a couple others, right? Yeah. Andean Abyss (Columbia), Cuba Libre (Cuba), A Distant Plain (Afghanistan), and Fire in the Lake (Vietnam) with a bunch more slated. There's no hidden information and you can take only one action a turn, so it has a simple flowchart for non-player factions (for solo play or if someone has to drop out.) So for example Castro's rebels will do Terror if they can use it to build opposition to the government, then if they can't they'll Rally until they've got most of their troops out, then unless an opportunity to Attack presents itself they'll March to easy targets or towards Havana. It all fits on a one-page flowchart.
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Jan 27, 2015 20:12
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Why can't every game have components/inserts like this?
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Jan 27, 2015 20:40
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Shame it's $14 for shipping, making it cost more than the Amazon price, otherwise I'd jump on it.
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Jan 27, 2015 20:55
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Sistergodiva posted:Why can't every game have components/inserts like this? A lot of games get expansions that turn the insert into junk since the expansion components aren't usually planned around.
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Jan 27, 2015 20:56
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Sloober posted:A lot of games get expansions that turn the insert into junk since the expansion components aren't usually planned around. I'd rather have to store my expansion separately than just get a literally empty box that some games still come with to hold cards, tokens, dice, and various other bits.
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Jan 27, 2015 21:05
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Merauder posted:I'd rather have to store my expansion separately than just get a literally empty box that some games still come with to hold cards, tokens, dice, and various other bits. What if it came with dozens of little baggies to store the bits in? If that's acceptable, buy baggies by the hundred and you'll never complain again.
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Jan 27, 2015 21:08
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Sloober posted:A lot of games get expansions that turn the insert into junk since the expansion components aren't usually planned around. Even Pandemic, which has bespoke slots for every added component in On The Brink and In The Lab, falls afoul of this. The one thing they haven't left room for? The lab playing board. 
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Jan 27, 2015 21:11
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silvergoose posted:What if it came with dozens of little baggies to store the bits in? Baggies are a pain.
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Jan 27, 2015 21:14
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Buy Plano. It's the best.
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Jan 27, 2015 21:15
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silvergoose posted:What if it came with dozens of little baggies to store the bits in? Baggies are unacceptable  I buy those little snack-size food containers and keep my bits in there. That way you have a convenient bin for resource banks and such, too. It makes set up/breakdown a lot easier. I run Mage Knight almost entirely out of a Plano box except for map tiles and cards.
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Jan 27, 2015 21:15
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Tippis posted:Even Pandemic, which has bespoke slots for every added component in On The Brink and In The Lab, falls afoul of this. The one thing they haven't left room for? The lab playing board. Actually, it's the Bioterrorist's hidden movement pad that's the culprit. Keep the bulk of the pad somewhere at home, and stick a handful of sheets in the box and it'll close just fine.
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Jan 27, 2015 21:18
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Jedit posted:Define your terms. Here in the UK I haven't been into a game shop in the last year that wasn't stocking Dreadball. Do they stock it or are they stuck with it? Because those minis were godawful.
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Jan 27, 2015 21:28
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Merauder posted:I'd rather have to store my expansion separately than just get a literally empty box that some games still come with to hold cards, tokens, dice, and various other bits. I always use really useful boxes or planos to organize most games to speed up setup and breakdown, so I don't mind if the boxes are empty or have a half rear end insert (like most FFG games). If I can squeeze it all into the base box while retaining organization i'll do that - managed to get all 7 Wonders stuff into the base box, albeit its a tight fit with all the wonders. One box is a lot easier to travel with too if you're used to moving around for game nights or get togethers.
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Jan 27, 2015 21:37
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If I ever release any expansions, I'd like to go the Dixit Journey route and have the expansion box be able to fit the initial game's components inside. Then, future printings of the base game can use that box insert. Win-win. I never fault a game's base set insert for being unable to fit expansions. In fact, outside of reprint scenarios with redone inserts, I find such behavior to be highly suspect, as it insinuates that the expansion content existed substantially in some form and was then removed, like Day 1 DLC.
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Jan 27, 2015 21:37
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Broken Loose posted:If I ever release any expansions, I'd like to go the Dixit Journey route and have the expansion box be able to fit the initial game's components inside. Then, future printings of the base game can use that box insert. Win-win. That'd be great if they treated expansions like that.
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Jan 27, 2015 21:44
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Speaking of storing contents, is there a source for really really really tiny storage boxes? I threw out the little plastic bags for meeples in Viticulture because there are 6 slots for 6 colors, but I'm finding they're a pain in the rear end to get out of the tray. I saw a picture on BGG with some tiny plastic containers that fit into the slots, but I haven't found anything that small online.
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Jan 27, 2015 21:51
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I actually find baggies to be easier in terms of putting a game up than using inserts/planos. With baggies, everyone helping put the game up can do their own thing instead of everyone hovering over the insert/plano, plus it's much easier to just throw baggies to people and have them take their stuff out than to scoop the pieces out. Lords of Waterdeep has a great insert, but it also takes a decent bit of time to get stuff out and put stuff up, plus it's more of a pain in the rear end to pass a box around for specific pieces, and if the box spills over, you're hosed. I'd much rather do baggies in most instances (with planos for games with a lot of different types of pieces, like Roads & Boats).
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Jan 27, 2015 21:51
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FISHMANPET posted:Speaking of storing contents, is there a source for really really really tiny storage boxes? I threw out the little plastic bags for meeples in Viticulture because there are 6 slots for 6 colors, but I'm finding they're a pain in the rear end to get out of the tray. I saw a picture on BGG with some tiny plastic containers that fit into the slots, but I haven't found anything that small online. Daily pill boxes might be what you're looking for. There's huge variety of them from tiny pills to giant ones that might fit your needs.
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Jan 27, 2015 22:04
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I'm a fan of replacing baggies with tuckboxes when they're available on BGG. Print them out on 110# paper, cut, fold, double sided tape and you're done. They take some time, but look nicer than baggies. Eclipse!  Kemet!  Also, that Fief game's expansions, metal coins and plastic buildings can still be bought from the publisher's website. They look good, but are rather expensive. Any idea what the expansions really add to the base game in Fief?
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Jan 27, 2015 22:06
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Broken Loose posted:If I ever release any expansions For which game? I'll check your games out. I'm on a particularly active checking-out-new-games kick lately and am grasping at things to check out, even stuff that doesn't normally align with my interests. (You can PM me if you don't want to out yourself) As for component chat, I recently followed someone's link to the Broken Token and I loved their clear plastic overlay for Eclipse, so that your cubes and disks can slot snugly into orderly little rows  My wife was just recently complaining about how she hates the way the ubiquitous wooden cubes and disks don't stay put. I showed her the Eclipse templates ones on the website and her reaction was "well, what are you waiting for? Get some made for our games already!" 
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Jan 27, 2015 22:17
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I've done tuckboxes for Battlestar Galactica and Tales of the Arabian Nights. I use the DriveThruCards deck boxes for cards and tokens, too. My general solutions are some 4x3 bags I found on Amazon. Broken Token impressed me with the Caverna insert, so I may pick up the Among the Stars and new 7 Wonders ones. Anyone have a good organizational setup for Keyflower? I had to dissassemble my little houses to fit Farmers and Merchants in my base box and it hurt me inside.
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Jan 27, 2015 22:18
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I use ziploc bags because it is what GMT would want. They wouldn't include them if they weren't the one true way.
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Jan 27, 2015 22:20
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yeah, I think the pro-est are little individual boxes since you can pass them or set them down and easily reach for stuff out of them. What would be cool is a Voltron-plano that you could disassemble.
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Jan 27, 2015 22:23
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Broken Loose posted:I find such behavior to be highly suspect, as it insinuates that the expansion content existed substantially in some form and was then removed, like Day 1 DLC. But I thought you liked dominion?
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Jan 27, 2015 22:24
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Aston posted:But I thought you liked dominion? I don't think there's any evidence to back that up.
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Jan 27, 2015 22:36
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Merauder posted:I don't think there's any evidence to back that up. Dominion did indeed 'hold back' a lot of cards, DXV has said it dozens of times. Dominion can be easily excused since adding the other three dozen or so cards would have unnecessarily complicated the base set and sent printing costs through the roof.
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Jan 27, 2015 22:39
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StashAugustine posted:Dominion did indeed 'hold back' a lot of cards, DXV has said it dozens of times. Dominion can be easily excused since adding the other three dozen or so cards would have unnecessarily complicated the base set and sent printing costs through the roof. I meant evidence that BL likes Dominion. Because jokes.
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Jan 27, 2015 22:57
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I came THIS close to pulling the trigger on XCOM as an impulse buy but have managed to hold off. Initial reviews have seemed to basically boil down to "I THINK it's good, but I really can't tell?" I'm holding off until it gets a few more plays and there's more of a consensus as to how much the app shifts gameplay based on the scenarios and whether people actually enjoy the time management after the novelty wears off. But I'm curious about your hot (off the presses) takes too.
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Jan 27, 2015 23:13
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Ravendas posted:Also, that Fief game's expansions, metal coins and plastic buildings can still be bought from the publisher's website. They look good, but are rather expensive. Any idea what the expansions really add to the base game in Fief? Three of them look like they add more ways of getting VP, with the Teutonic Knights and Templars not being both available to the same family. One appears to just add more options for battles, and the remaining one gives everyone a random helpful benefit and every lord and lady a random trait that can help or hinder. I haven't had a chance to get any of them to the table but the rules look fine. I'm not sure they're $45 fine though. The buildings seem nice but I probably could have done without and saved myself $30.
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Jan 27, 2015 23:23
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Memnaelar posted:I came THIS close to pulling the trigger on XCOM as an impulse buy but have managed to hold off. Initial reviews have seemed to basically boil down to "I THINK it's good, but I really can't tell?" I'm holding off until it gets a few more plays and there's more of a consensus as to how much the app shifts gameplay based on the scenarios and whether people actually enjoy the time management after the novelty wears off. Also, got to play Alchemists over the weekend. I was really looking forward to it, and it was a huge letdown. The deduction is too light, and the scoring is unintuitive and clunky. I'll post more  about it after I finish writing my Atlanta Game Fest wrap-up article.
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