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Cippalippus posted:Yeah, that happened in 2007 and there was a storm about it. You are wrong about the matter however: it wasn't about deporting the families, it was about expelling from the Swiss soil immigrants who committed crimes; their family was expelled with them only if there was no working member. A similar mechanism is in place in every country of the world, the Swiss People Party is just retarded about it. mlmp08 posted:You misunderstood my point of contention. When you say every nation but Switzerland has a provision for deporting families based on the actions of the head of household, maybe back the claim up. I meant the system of expulsion of the criminal, not of the family; I bolded the two connected sentences. The system isn't in place in Switzerland, anyway, which is quite lax on immigration. For instance: Warbadger posted:You are correct. The only time something resembling his statement would be true is if the family members are on certain Visas (Family member of X) and the principal applicant loses their Visa/Residency for whatever reason. Even then it's not quite accurate. Immigration laws are usually stricter in the USA than in Switzerland, albeit obtaining an US citizenship is of course much simpler. About one third of the Swiss residents aren't Swiss, which is a large number. In my canton of origin, only half of the residents are Swiss. The case that Warbadger described can't happen in Switzerland, and the Swiss People Party would like a similar system to the one described.
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Jan 27, 2015 22:51
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Dolash posted:They have less per capita than Switzerland, which you held up as one of the shining examples of racism's usefulness in stemming radical Islam - hm, I wonder if perhaps this is a stupid, unscientific way to measure the effect of general policies and cultural-political climate? You can travel to Syria without a passport from Switzerland, for little more than a hundred of Euros. You only need an ID card to get out of Switzerland, and an ID card is enough to get into Turkey; inbetween, no need to show your ID to anyone. Getting into Syria , once in Turkey, is trivial. Doing the same from Canada is much more expensive, and complicated, and you won't get cases similar to the two austrian girls that went into Syria a few months ago. For the same reasons, there weren't a whole lot of Europeans fighting in Cuban revolution, and South American revolutionaries weren't terribly common in Spain in the late 30s of the last century, despite communion of languages and ideals.
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Jan 27, 2015 23:03
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Disinterested posted:What's with all the Tunisians? It's really weird. They really started migrating when JaN was the king of the jihadist pipeline, but Tunisia was ripe for jihadist fuckery. I don't know why they all left, but Tunisia is certainly the better for it. That's the only difference between Tunisia and Libya right now.
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Jan 28, 2015 00:33
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Cippalippus posted:I'm not sure if you've been there but UAE is a pretty good place to live in, and a much more open society than any other country in the region- and probably in the world. Other than a few capitalistic exaggerations, you'll find that the UAE is more open than Turkey, which has been regarded in Europe as the model country with a muslim majority; until Erdogan, anyway. The UAE is a model, open society for rich sheikhs (and white male businessmen) and literally no one else. Erdogan has his problems but even on his worst day Turkey is a more open country than any of the Arabian petrostates.
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Jan 28, 2015 00:49
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You're partly right, but UAE is opening and Turkey is closing, and these two processes don't seem to be reversing - or even slowing down.
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Jan 28, 2015 01:09
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Cippalippus posted:You're partly right, but UAE is opening and Turkey is closing, and these two processes don't seem to be reversing - or even slowing down. The current chasm between Turkey and the Arabian states is still huge, and I can't see Erdogan/AKP ever being able to get away with some of the crazy repressive poo poo that goes down in the UAE/KSA.
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Jan 28, 2015 01:12
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Cippalippus posted:I meant the system of expulsion of the criminal, not of the family; And there's the disconnect. The way you wrote it, it sounded like you were arguing that every nation ever expels families based on the offenses of the working head of household unless they are workers themselves. Simply expelling someone who is a non-permanent immigrant over a serious crime isn't all that shocking, though lawmakers need to look very closely at what they consider "serious" crimes.
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Jan 28, 2015 01:14
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Israel has Directly bombed Syrian regime forces in the Golan.
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Jan 28, 2015 01:28
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I hate for them to get involved, but can't say I'm upset to see the Syrian regime getting bombed.
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Jan 28, 2015 01:31
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How much more openly is this than the last several times they did it?
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Jan 28, 2015 01:32
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mlmp08 posted:And there's the disconnect. The way you wrote it, it sounded like you were arguing that every nation ever expels families based on the offenses of the working head of household unless they are workers themselves. Simply expelling someone who is a non-permanent immigrant over a serious crime isn't all that shocking, though lawmakers need to look very closely at what they consider "serious" crimes. Yes, I wasn't clear, but I wasn't implying that every nation in the world expels criminals' families. The referendum was mainly about extending what is considered a serious crime worthy of expulsion.
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Jan 28, 2015 01:39
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Al-Saqr posted:Israel has Directly bombed Syrian regime forces in the Golan. mlmp08 posted:How much more openly is this than the last several times they did it? Israeli news is openly declaring this, so it's not being censored or denied. The claim is that they were responding to artillery fire from the Syrian-held portion. ETA: The story wasn't clear about the chronology. At first there was artillery fire from the Israeli held to the Syrian held Golan in response to alleged rocket fire, earlier today. Then artillery from the Syrian held area was simultaneous with admitted Israeli airstrikes in that area. I guess Netanyahu really wants to win/cancel the elections. 
Absurd Alhazred fucked around with this message at 01:44 on Jan 28, 2015 |
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Jan 28, 2015 01:41
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Look forward to hearing more about how the revolution is really just an Israeli coup.
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Jan 28, 2015 01:44
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Absurd Alhazred posted:Israeli news is openly declaring this, so it's not being censored or denied. The claim is that they were responding to artillery fire from the Syrian-held portion. Oh he doesn't want to get deeply involved in the war. But these incidents probably do a good job of heightening anxiety about security within the Israel public, which totally serves his purpose. Not that this is necessarily the entire reasoning/impetus behind these incidents, but it's certainly a side effect Netanyahu probably enjoys.
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Jan 28, 2015 01:57
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Israel has long openly reported when they return fire when the Syrians, intentionally or not, lobbed mortars/arty across the border. They're less open about when they blow the gently caress out of munitions dumps.
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Jan 28, 2015 02:00
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New Division posted:Oh he doesn't want to get deeply involved in the war. But these incidents probably do a good job of heightening anxiety about security within the Israel public, which totally serves his purpose. Not that this is necessarily the entire reasoning/impetus behind these incidents, but it's certainly a side effect Netanyahu probably enjoys. I shouldn't really be ascribing this to Netanyahu by default. After all, as far as declared actions go, it looks like it was initiated by someone in Syria to begin with. But on the other hand, there was that incident last week (?) where they attacked leading Iranian and Hezbollah groups on the Syrian side. 
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Jan 28, 2015 02:01
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There was also the incident earlier this month where IDF attacked near the Damascus airport, also allegedly Hezbollah targets though it hasn't been officially confirmed by Hezbollah. It definitely looks like he is trying to stir something up and the timing can't be a coincidence.
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Jan 28, 2015 02:19
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What's this guy saying? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a4wnQOL9tzE
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Jan 28, 2015 02:21
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So there's already a spat between Kurdish forces and regime forces happening in Hasakah... Are we gonna end up with an Israeli/FSA/Kurdish/US(/Turkish?) alliance against Assad? Still not enough troops left to really make it work though. Also not sure how keen the FSA are to even work with the US given that we didn't intervene post-Libya or after the chemical attacks, and that we kinda hosed things up by bombing al-Nusra.  Really wish we'd just done the Syrian no-fly zone a couple years ago. Syria would still be hosed, but a lot less so than it currently is.
fade5 fucked around with this message at 02:33 on Jan 28, 2015 |
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Jan 28, 2015 02:26
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Brown Moses posted:Interesting post on Metabunk looking at the "shadow" issue with the Japanese ISIS video This is why you should avoid the videos on YouTube and only watch the Criterion Ultra Panavision transfer versions. Also with regards to the Israeli action I imagine the Syrian troops did something stupid and got lit up. I doubt the effectiveness of command and control is at an all time high right now.
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Jan 28, 2015 02:27
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fade5 posted:So there's already a spat between Kurdish forces and regime forces is Hasakah... The fighting in Hasakah has been going on for a week or two, and it doesn't seem to be spreading. It just depends. Assad withdrew from Syrian Kurdistan right at the beginning, and the situation isn't any better now. The regime can't open up a real front there until they defeat the opposition. You forgot to mention that when the strikes against ISIS began, there was 0 coordination with the FSA, and they actually started pushing south away from ISIS. I think any US/FSA cooperation is off the table at this point without the US taking massive steps as a show of good faith, and that's just not how we work. The FSA would have to come 90 to meet our 10, and they've been burned trying that a few times. Rhetoric against Assad among US officials seems to be at its all-time weakest point.
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Jan 28, 2015 02:32
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What is the FSA anymore? Even if we supported them to the point of installing them as the government, could they govern?
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Jan 28, 2015 02:34
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SedanChair posted:What is the FSA anymore? Even if we supported them to the point of installing them as the government, could they govern? Probably not at this point. Activists are really disenfranchised, and the SNC lost all influence with them. Progress could make a world of change, but it's not even close to ideal, and it's far worse than earlier scenarios in the war. I'm not even sure of anywhere they independently own at this point. There's JaN influences everywhere in cities they control. It seems there's still hope for militias in the south, but that window is closing, and they aren't going to conquer Syria. Volkerball fucked around with this message at 02:39 on Jan 28, 2015 |
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Jan 28, 2015 02:36
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Disinterested posted:The Foreign Fighter count in Syria is now estimated at over 20,000 since the war started, more than fought in Afghanistan in the 1980's. Europe's Tenth crusade
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Jan 28, 2015 03:10
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The SNC certainly seems to have utterly lost the respect of the opposition groups actually fighting on the ground and international governments seem to be ignoring it our paying it mere lip service at this point.
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Jan 28, 2015 03:13
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54.4 crowns posted:Europe's Tenth crusade At least they probably won't burn down Constantinople this time.
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Jan 28, 2015 03:15
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New Division posted:The SNC certainly seems to have utterly lost the respect of the opposition groups actually fighting on the ground and international governments seem to be ignoring it our paying it mere lip service at this point. To be fair, it never really got much respect on the ground. They've been spitefully called the "hotel rebels" for as long as I can remember. Groups only tolerated it when it seemed Western aid was on the table.
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Jan 28, 2015 03:17
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Volkerball posted:To be fair, it never really got much respect on the ground. They've been spitefully called the "hotel rebels" for as long as I can remember. Groups only tolerated it when it seemed Western aid was on the table. They always seemed like more of a political lobbying group than a potential government leading an armed opposition. I've heard lots of rumors that some of them embezzled from the foreign funds they did manage to recieve though I have no idea whether that is true or if it merely reflected bitterness and suspicion from others.
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Jan 28, 2015 03:22
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New Division posted:They always seemed like more of a political lobbying group than a potential government leading an armed opposition. I think it would've served as a potential government, but it was just so co-opted. Once al-Khatib and a bunch of members quit because of Saudi and Qatari influence, and they just replaced him with a yes man, it was pretty clear it had little future in Syria.
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Jan 28, 2015 03:26
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Volkerball posted:I think it would've served as a potential government, but it was just so co-opted. Once al-Khatib and a bunch of members quit because of Saudi and Qatari influence, and they just replaced him with a yes man, it was pretty clear it had little future in Syria. Well the Saudis were never going to tolerate any opposition that wasn't beholden to them. It's just the way they roll. Though in the case of Syria they've really gotten worst possible result with their policy. It ended up being one of the major reasons Prince Bandar got shitcanned from his job.
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Jan 28, 2015 03:27
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Volkerball posted:What's this guy saying? Public sanitation workers in aleppo havent seen a paycheck for a ehile now, the man in the video hasnt recieved one in three months, and have been forced to sell their most belongings to pay for food and meds. Apparently they are seeing no help from whatever governmental establishment that employs them. And aid supplies only arrive every 2-3 months They are there protesting for their pay and rights.
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Jan 28, 2015 03:35
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fade5 posted:So there's already a spat between Kurdish forces and regime forces happening in Hasakah... Any plan which officially involves Israel would be off the table, even if the others worked out.
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Jan 28, 2015 03:36
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Rigged Death Trap posted:Public sanitation workers in aleppo havent seen a paycheck for a ehile now, the man in the video hasnt recieved one in three months, and have been forced to sell their most belongings to pay for food and meds. Apparently they are seeing no help from whatever governmental establishment that employs them. And aid supplies only arrive every 2-3 months Thanks. Good to know. I knew it was something in that vein, but I didn't know exactly what they were protesting about. Not surprising. Syrian Civil Defense was only kept afloat by meager foreign investment, so I'm sure standard government infrastructure is getting neglected big time.
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Jan 28, 2015 03:40
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Absurd Alhazred posted:Any plan which officially involves Israel would be off the table, even if the others worked out. The Turks wouldn't side with the Kurds in Syria as long as the PYD/PKK remained the predominant Kurdish force there. Erdogan just today issued more statements to the effect that Turkey will not tolerate an autonomous Kurdish region in Syria. So there's that too.
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Jan 28, 2015 03:41
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New Division posted:The Turks wouldn't side with the Kurds in Syria as long as the PYD/PKK remained the predominant Kurdish force there. Erdogan just today issued more statements to the effect that Turkey will not tolerate an autonomous Kurdish region in Syria. Now the US is gonna be backing the Kurds in the fight against ISIL.
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Jan 28, 2015 04:32
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fade5 posted:Well that's just too goddamn bad Erdogan, either get used to autonomous Rojava or watch as Iraqi Kurdistan absorbs Jazira and Kobani cantons into the new Iraqi-Syrian Kurdistan, your choice. You had a chance to keep the Kurds happy and welcome them as good partners with Turkey, and you blew it by leaving them high and dry in the fight against ISIL. Turkey is on good terms with the KRG. If there was no conflict between Syrian Kurdistan and Iraqi Kurdistan, there would be no issue. Whether that conflict is just or not, and the PYD/PKK is truly the right path for Syrian Kurdistan, I don't know enough to comment on, but if the Syrian Kurds hadn't shut the door to Barzani, they would've been represented in the SNC, Geneva, and would have a friend in Turkey. Sucks it didn't work out that way. It's dishonest to scold Turkey for choosing sides when it came to the Kurds when the two factions are on the verge of civil war, and Kurds themselves are attacking the other side with the same amount of venom as Erdogan. Volkerball fucked around with this message at 04:46 on Jan 28, 2015 |
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Jan 28, 2015 04:37
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Some people earlier in the thread were talking about Netanyahu in danger of losing an election. Is this true? Are we going to get an even more aggressive hardliner in power over there?
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Jan 28, 2015 04:41
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HorseRenoir posted:Some people earlier in the thread were talking about Netanyahu in danger of losing an election. Is this true? Are we going to get an even more aggressive hardliner in power over there? It's more complicated than that, and there's a whole I/P thread in which to go into it at length, but the short answer is that a genuine "left-wing" victory (that is, one where the coalition is formed of, say, left-centristish Labor and leftwards) is extremely unlikely, while one lead by someone rightwards of Netanyahu is. It does seem that Netanyahu screwed the pooch with this whole being invited to Congress by  without State Dept authorization. No sanctions are expected until the next talk deadline, so Obama doesn't need to lose face by vetoing anything.
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Jan 28, 2015 04:47
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fade5 posted:Well that's just too goddamn bad Erdogan, either get used to autonomous Rojava or watch as Iraqi Kurdistan absorbs Jazira and Kobani cantons into the new Iraqi-Syrian Kurdistan, your choice. You had a chance to keep the Kurds happy and welcome them as good partners with Turkey, and you blew it by leaving them high and dry in the fight against ISIL. The leadership of Syria and Iraqi Kurdistan have a pretty frosty relationship. They'll coordinate to the extent that they feel they is necessary as a sop to pan-Kurdish sentiment. They certainly won't merge. Like Volkerball mentioned, Erdogan is fine with Barzani, the leader of Iraqi Kurdistan, but he despises the leaders the Syrian Kurdish leadership and would probably love it if they were all killed. The big reason is that the PYD is pretty much a de facto part of the PKK, which fought a long running insurgency against Turkey.
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Jan 28, 2015 05:00
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New Division posted:The leadership of Syria and Iraqi Kurdistan have a pretty frosty relationship. They'll coordinate to the extent that they feel they is necessary as a sop to pan-Kurdish sentiment. They certainly won't merge.  Erdogan's still an rear end in a top hat though. 
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Jan 28, 2015 05:10
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