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Kanthulhu posted:So, uh Claimed by IBJJF. What was the video of?
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Jan 28, 2015 08:59
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Choke Throat Is there a time to be concerned? We've been doing a lot of chokes lately which is fun as hell, but a few weeks back I asked a partner to really give'er because I just wasn't feeling endangered. Queue a crunching noise that I think was my trachea/Adam's apple. It didn't hurt at the time, though it did drop my voice a bit. Now it's a few weeks later and I have pain when I swallow in the back left of my throat. Not much, just a bit like pushing on a bruise. It's just the duration that's bugging me really, it has to have been nearly a month now.
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Jan 28, 2015 09:08
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General Emergency posted:Claimed by IBJJF. What was the video of? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XHvwVuv2ikE
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Jan 28, 2015 09:50
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TollTheHounds posted:Choke Throat uh... go to a doctor man your throat got crushed, a bit also, what choke was that? gently caress air chokes I don't want my voice dropping more
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Jan 28, 2015 16:47
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TollTheHounds posted:a few weeks back I asked a partner to really give'er because I just wasn't feeling endangered. Well, that was dumb. Would you ask someone to crank an armbar because you didn't feel "endangered"?
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Jan 28, 2015 16:56
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Mechafunkzilla posted:Well, that was dumb. Would you ask someone to crank an armbar because you didn't feel "endangered"? Yeah, every thing about this situation seems to be a hosed up thing. Maybe it's part BJJ and part S&M.
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Jan 28, 2015 17:01
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TollTheHounds posted:Choke Throat You can break your hyoid bone. It happened to Lance Storm in pro wrestling. Might be worth getting checked out. Usually if I get crushed it just hurts for up to a week. I have throat-choked a guy REALLY loving hard though (at his request, he's a performance artist) and didn't break it, so I think it may be more of an impact thing than a pressure thing. Or maybe it's just a freak occurrence thing. Agreed posted:Yeah, every thing about this situation seems to be a hosed up thing. Maybe it's part BJJ and part S&M. Sometimes you just gotta feel it. I get it. Sometimes I want to make sure my partner knows how to really choke someone, so I tell 'em to push it.
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Jan 28, 2015 20:06
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Mechafunkzilla posted:Well, that was dumb. Would you ask someone to crank an armbar because you didn't feel "endangered"? Was typing via the mobile app so kept it brief, I'm not totally retarded ( just mostly ). To elaborate: We were doing baseball chokes ( like https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iGWWd5erCNE ) and my partner just really didn't have it locked in. I wasn't being choked at all - he could have held me there all day long and it really was not uncomfortable in any way ( aka "didn't feel endangered" - not being a tough guy ), I think because he wasn't turning his elbows in or maybe didn't have a good grip. So I told him to try changing the angle/maybe not be so "nice" ( thinking he was worried about hurting me ), and when he tried it again it was super tight for second and I tapped right away but I felt the crunch. I think his grip was still not deep enough because instead of pressing my artery for the blood choke he was really just leaning on his forearm instead. In retrospect it was dumb for sure - I should have waited for a higher belt to come around and ask them to guide him/us ( and warn him the goal is to blood choke, not crush the other persons throat ) because I couldn't really see what was going on - I was just kind of theory-crafting out loud. I just felt it's important for the other guy to know what it feels like when it's done properly ( just like I want to know ), and it's important for me to know what it feels like to be caught in a solid choke of that type. Same way when doing arm bars or ankle locks or whatever, if I don't feel uncomfortable I let the other guy know and we work it until I can tell it's going to start hurting and then tap. The difference is that with those submissions I think it's easier to work the technique before it gets to the danger-zone. Only reason I haven't gone to a doctor yet ( might as well now, no harm ) is because I googled it and it seems like it's a pretty common thing. Who Gotch Ya posted:You can break your hyoid bone. It happened to Lance Storm in pro wrestling. Might be worth getting checked out. Usually if I get crushed it just hurts for up to a week. Exactly! Also, didn't know I had a hyoid bone, I'll ask about that. TollTheHounds fucked around with this message at 20:12 on Jan 28, 2015 |
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Jan 28, 2015 20:07
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TollTheHounds posted:Was typing via the mobile app so kept it brief, I'm not totally retarded ( just mostly ). Yeah dude I totally get telling them to put it on. I did the same exact thing last week with the same exact choke. I was just all hacky and coughy for a few minutes though 'cause I tapped really fast and she let go. Nothing wrong IMO with a throat-crush baseball choke though. Choke what you can choke, whether air or blood. Just realize the situation and try not to hurt your partner seriously so they'll be injured after. Somepeople just have poor body control and maybe can't bring on pressure gradually the right way early on. Who Gotch Ya fucked around with this message at 20:12 on Jan 28, 2015 |
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Jan 28, 2015 20:08
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Who Gotch Ya posted:Nothing wrong IMO with a throat-crush baseball choke though. Choke what you can choke, whether air or blood. Just realize the situation and try not to hurt your partner seriously so they'll be injured after. This is stupid. The whole point of the blood choke is that it is more efficient and safer. If you don't want to injure your partner don't try to crush their trachea.
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Jan 28, 2015 20:37
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Tezcatlipoca posted:This is stupid. The whole point of the blood choke is that it is more efficient and safer. If you don't want to injure your partner don't try to crush their trachea. And if you don't want me to crush the trachea (slowly, with control. you haven't rolled with me. I'm super light-going.) then turn your head so the pressure goes elsewhere or tap.
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Jan 28, 2015 20:50
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and then you sweep that motherfucker onto some concrete
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Jan 28, 2015 20:51
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Who Gotch Ya posted:And if you don't want me to crush the trachea (slowly, with control. you haven't rolled with me. I'm super light-going.) then turn your head so the pressure goes elsewhere or tap. My point is that if you are doing air chokes, your technique needs improvement and you should readjust to get the blood choke. That is why you're rolling isn't it, to improve your technique?
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Jan 28, 2015 21:01
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Tezcatlipoca posted:My point is that if you are doing air chokes, your technique needs improvement and you should readjust to get the blood choke. Nah, windpipe chokes are their own thing, they're not automatically inferior to blood chokes.
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Jan 28, 2015 21:07
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Tezcatlipoca posted:My point is that if you are doing air chokes, your technique needs improvement and you should readjust to get the blood choke. That is why you're rolling isn't it, to improve your technique? Windpipe chokes are a thing. Do not try to tell me they are bad technique. The fact that I can interchange between the two and recognize when I am doing one and when I am doing another demonstrates my technique. TIL Anderson Silva has bad technique because of how he choked Dan Hendo. 
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Jan 28, 2015 21:22
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I only do diaphragm chokes, anything else is too thuggish for my liking *hat tip*
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Jan 28, 2015 21:24
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Who Gotch Ya posted:Windpipe chokes are a thing. Do not try to tell me they are bad technique. The fact that I can interchange between the two and recognize when I am doing one and when I am doing another demonstrates my technique. youre reading too much into this, go back through his posts in this threads and you will understand why he posts stupid things
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Jan 28, 2015 21:25
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Yuriy posted:youre reading too much into this, go back through his posts in this threads and you will understand why he posts stupid things I don't care why people post stupid things, I will post smart things because this is supposed to be an informative thread.
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Jan 28, 2015 21:26
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They're legit and they are very painful to receive. I hate choke day.
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Jan 28, 2015 21:29
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So, grading. Got my first tab after showing a couple beginners techniques, super easy. I guess it was just down to attendance and not being completely useless. Really happy all the same, first step, plus it means I'm able to roll on the open mat now. Some people got their blues today, that was fun too!
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Jan 28, 2015 21:31
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10-finger and 5-finger guillotines are basically all about driving the knuckle of your thumb into someone's trachea to get a quick tap, it's perfectly legitimate. For a baseball-style choke I think it's the fault of the guy on the bottom if it ends up as a trachea crush since you should be able to turn into the choker to relieve the pressure while trying to fight it off. Anyways if your throat still hurts weeks afterwards it's probably worth getting it checked out. I've had soreness while swallowing for like a few days after drilling lots of chokes but never for that extended period of time.
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Jan 28, 2015 21:41
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colonel_korn posted:10-finger and 5-finger guillotines are basically all about driving the knuckle of your thumb into someone's trachea to get a quick tap, it's perfectly legitimate. For a baseball-style choke I think it's the fault of the guy on the bottom if it ends up as a trachea crush since you should be able to turn into the choker to relieve the pressure while trying to fight it off. Yup. Also gogoplatas are air chokes (unless you do it from the side, which I do at times, it becomes a cobra clutch with your leg) and those are looked at as being like the most technical super impossible thing ever by a lot of people (they're not, they're no more technical than an armbar or a triangle, but they are perceived as such) so air choke does not equal non-technical.
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Jan 28, 2015 21:52
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Modified guillotines likes the Marcelotine and Mackenzietine are trachea smashers and folks should really learn them.
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Jan 28, 2015 21:59
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does anyone remember the video of the cody clutch, which is like a combination of a terrible baseball choke and an upside peruvian necktie?
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Jan 28, 2015 22:03
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origami posted:Modified guillotines likes the Marcelotine and Mackenzietine are trachea smashers and folks should really learn them. Um, not sure about Marcelo's variation but Mackenzie's is definitely a blood choke, that's why people go out from it so quickly. The grip ensures that he's putting lots of pressure on both carotids.
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Jan 28, 2015 22:18
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The Mackenzitine is definitely a blood choke; Marcelo's guillotine variation is a windpipe choke, although it depends more on "folding" the neck over the hand to close the windpipe than direct trachea pressure. In a choke that can be both, like the RNC, it's usually "preferable" for it to be a blood choke because they work much faster than windpipe chokes, so the uke has less time to work a defense for it, but there are plenty of legitimate techniques that are windpipe-based. If you're applying the sub with enough control to give uke time to tap, it shouldn't matter as they should be tapping before they're getting throat injuries anyway. It sounds like what happened to TollTheHounds is something that happens a lot with various armlocks - Their partner had the wrong angle on the technique so they were applying gradual force but nothing was happening; then they change the angle but they're still applying the same amount of force they'd gradually built up to applying (rather than starting over) so all of a sudden it's a lot of force into the new angle and uke doesn't have time to tap before they get hurt a bit.
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Jan 28, 2015 22:23
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colonel_korn posted:10-finger and 5-finger guillotines are basically all about driving the knuckle of your thumb into someone's trachea to get a quick tap, it's perfectly legitimate. For a baseball-style choke I think it's the fault of the guy on the bottom if it ends up as a trachea crush since you should be able to turn into the choker to relieve the pressure while trying to fight it off. Actually yeah, I don't think I was turning in at all. In which case it's also my fault for sure. It was just a drill so I guess I didn't think to turn in, which I should have been doing since the drill can benefit both bottom/top. I just kept focusing on his grip/arms and not what *I* was doing. That's kind of par for the course for me right now anyway - I focus on ONE thing or ONE part of a technique and kind of forget about the rest. Not intentionally I think, it's just my brain is still trying to catalogue everything and my muscles are trying to memorize it all. fatherdog posted:The Mackenzitine is definitely a blood choke; Marcelo's guillotine variation is a windpipe choke, although it depends more on "folding" the neck over the hand to close the windpipe than direct trachea pressure. Yeah I think that's spot on. Initially he was really tensing and trying to use his arms to choke ( just like I do since I also always forget to pull my elbows in and twist ), so he was really straining but it wasn't doing anything. So then he tried the other angle but was still going at 110% and bam!
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Jan 28, 2015 22:35
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Hey all, Crossposting from another thread some poo poo I found out today from my neurologist was pretty loving far from what I expected. From the other thread - "(But today I found out from my neurologist I'm indefinitely out of any contact sports until they do more research on my particular situation and need to treat myself like someone with a severe spinal cord injury until otherwise. So...gently caress my Jiu Jitsu/Muay Thai hobby I guess.)" So, gently caress. Glad I paid for a year upfront to save money. Guess I'll be trying out that capoeira pretty soon. I'm bummed. My new year resolution was to have an amateur Muay Thai or MMA bout by the end of the year along with some non-athletic goals. loving God drat frustrating. Thanks for letting me vent. You're my MMA online buddies.
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Jan 29, 2015 07:42
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You'd only been there for a like a couple of weeks or something right? If I were you I'd talk to the guys at the gym and see if maybe they'd compromise with you somehow. I know any gym I've trained at would have refunded the money.
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Jan 29, 2015 07:59
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Opal posted:You'd only been there for a like a couple of weeks or something right? If I were you I'd talk to the guys at the gym and see if maybe they'd compromise with you somehow. I know any gym I've trained at would have refunded the money. I'd been going from September to December when I had to lay off. I know it doesn't seem like much but I used to do "MMA" for about a year and it felt fun to find a place where I fit in and enjoyed the sport. I've always been a little pudgy and was looking forward to losing that too. I hate working out but when I've fenced, did MMA, and now was doing Jiu Jitsu the weight came right off. It's just frustrating. I don't was to be a somewhat "disabled" thirty year old and there could be declining conditions in my health that could slowly start to creep in. I could die old without problems or eventually face some partial or complete paralysis. I'm not going to ask for a refund unless I try their other options, (straight up cardio classes, capoeira, maybe Muay Thai without any sparring) and go from there. It just sucks knowing the competing aspect (rolling at the end of each class) which is what I loved is now a non option. Today I found out getting rear ended is one of the main things that makes my condition go from bad to "hosed." I don't mean to stink up the thread with my personal life. It just blows and I only recently mentioned it. In my working all nights lifestyle I don't have any friends or parents I can call and whine to at the moment. Edit : Also, I'll always have this from my little white belt tournament.  
Captain Log fucked around with this message at 08:08 on Jan 29, 2015 |
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Jan 29, 2015 08:05
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Get it prorated, but most importantly stay healthy!
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Jan 29, 2015 08:49
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What's going on? I stopped listening to my doctors a while back because the pain system is full of vultures who don't even want you to get better, but there sure enough are some good reasons not to do BJJ. However I do wonder at a condition that would stop you from BJJ but allow the acrobatics involved in a really flashy, movement-based style like that. edit: i constantly, constantly have back spasms in my muscles but I swear to god BJJ has been so good for my general health and wellbeing that I couldn't care less about the back issues, when the SLIGHTEST twinge in my back used to end my day. But, my ruptured discs (four of 'em, L2 through S1, 45% gone now and took an inch and a half of height with 'em) have pretty much healed. If they hadn't, I'd be busy trying to heal that damage with activity better suited for that (did it once, can do it however many times I hope!). Muscle cramps from overworking a relatively weak muscle group aren't the same thing as worsening an existing injury and you have to take that seriously (as I will, should I reinjure myself for real in the spine). But man if there is ANY way, find it. Don't let A Doctor tell you that you can't do it, make a bunch of them tell you it and make sure they all exhausted some other poo poo on the way there, if possible. Agreed fucked around with this message at 12:49 on Jan 29, 2015 |
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Jan 29, 2015 12:38
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david carmichael posted:does anyone remember the video of the cody clutch, which is like a combination of a terrible baseball choke and an upside peruvian necktie? Coty Clutch https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cgEEeChvPjw Coty Lock https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vMQLEMzd9qg
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Jan 29, 2015 12:49
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fatherdog posted:It sounds like what happened to TollTheHounds is something that happens a lot with various armlocks - Their partner had the wrong angle on the technique so they were applying gradual force but nothing was happening; then they change the angle but they're still applying the same amount of force they'd gradually built up to applying (rather than starting over) so all of a sudden it's a lot of force into the new angle and uke doesn't have time to tap before they get hurt a bit. I am always trying to articulate this to white and low blues because they will frantically try to correct joint locks and it worries me they'll get it right but still keep the same pressure cause injury.
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Jan 29, 2015 18:43
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Captain Log posted:It's just frustrating. I don't was to be a somewhat "disabled" thirty year old and there could be declining conditions in my health that could slowly start to creep in. I could die old without problems or eventually face some partial or complete paralysis. I know exactly what you're feeling. I went like 2 years without rolling because of my neck. It was horrible. All you can do is everything else. Stretch. Drill. Do calisthenics. Lift if you can. Kettlebells, macebells, those saved my life when I couldn't roll. You will improve your health by doing these things. Hopefully during that time something can be done medically that will allow you to roll again. I don't know neurologically what is going on or what the deal is, but PM me if you need to. I've been through this and I'm on the other side now and I know it's possible to get through it.
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Jan 29, 2015 19:48
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It's not ballet.
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Jan 30, 2015 00:22
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Who Gotch Ya posted:I know exactly what you're feeling. I went like 2 years without rolling because of my neck. It was horrible. I really do appreciate it sir. For reals. I have a Chiari malformation and had it explained to me that my doctor telling me I can do any contact sport would literally be malpractice on her part. I basically have 7 millimeters of herniated brain coming out of the bottom of the base of my skull that blocks spinal fluid and can get worse for nearly any reason at any time. Apparently one of the main causes of paralysis for my condition is getting rear ended in a car. And get this, it's apparently really common to see declines from anything from a blow to the back of the head to a loving SNEEZING fit. Sadly, this isn't something that is likely to improve. I could ignore her and do what I've done for thirty years - but my symptoms are incredibly mild compared to what I could be dealing with. It's a lot to absorb.
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Jan 30, 2015 01:30
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Dude that's super unlucky and terrible, but it sounds like you just found out about this recently. Definitely go get a second opinion, doctors make mistakes.
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Jan 30, 2015 02:55
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That doesn't sound like the kind of opinion that a doctor would just spray around and be like "yeah whatever it's probably this". That sounds like a hyper-specific condition that's been bounced off a bunch of brain specialists.
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Jan 30, 2015 03:02
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02-6611-0142-1 posted:That doesn't sound like the kind of opinion that a doctor would just spray around and be like "yeah whatever it's probably this". You're right, doctors are infallible and have never made mistakes or been mistaken.
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Jan 30, 2015 03:04
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