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revmoo posted:I highly recommend doing a drier replacement on anything that isn't performing well. Replacing the drier on my car and doing a vacuum/fill dropped my temps by something like 25 degrees. I WOULD, but I only have basic tools, not a recovery machine and they want a stupid amount of $$$ (around $80!) just to recover the R134 from the system! Im willing to go "gently caress it" to the regulations about working on AC yourself, but Im not really willing to dump kg's of R134a into the atmosphere to change out a drier... Edit: Just went and chucked the gauges on while I wait for my can tap to get out of Aus customs... Both Ambient temps of 25 degrees Cruiser: low 30/high 210... so somethings a tad amiss there... Tiida: Low 25/high 130, so thats just low gas. Looks like I might be paying out of the nose for the cruiser to get de-gassed and checking some stuff out! Ferremit fucked around with this message at 09:01 on Jan 28, 2015 |
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Jan 28, 2015 08:06
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Remember to check the static pressures too (with engines off and cold), if they're high for ambient temp you have contamination, which can cause issues on its own as well as indicating other problems.
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Jan 28, 2015 10:08
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Couldnt really test static on the cruiser- it had just finished an hr long highway run and was extra toasty.... I'll have another look when its cold
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Jan 28, 2015 10:35
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kastein posted:Same stuff. R134a is R134a. He still hasn't picked it up, though he did call back a few days ago and said he'd be by "soon". I'll have to properly dispose of/recycle it pretty soon. Just so that it doesn't get into the wrong hands or anything, can't have kids huffing it or venting it or any of that nonsense.  The assistant manager is fully behind my idea of recycling it into his car and the 3 cars at my place.
randomidiot fucked around with this message at 11:47 on Jan 28, 2015 |
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Jan 28, 2015 11:43
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Hah I used to think that it was important to go get refrigerant recovered, and then I realized that canned air and airbrush kits vent r134 directly to the atmosphere and nobody seems to care.
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Jan 28, 2015 14:50
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revmoo posted:Hah I used to think that it was important to go get refrigerant recovered, and then I realized that canned air and airbrush kits vent r134 directly to the atmosphere and nobody seems to care. Canned air is r134, but not r134a. R 134a is F3-C-C-FH2 whereas canned air is F2H-C-C-F2H. One decomposes much faster in the upper atmosphere. I'll let you guess which.
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Jan 28, 2015 15:11
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This is the msds for the canned air we get down under http://www.jaycar.com//products_uploaded/Servisol_NA1018_Air_Brush_Air_Duster_MSDS_2011.pdf Specifically says HFC 134a, so god knows what they're playing at. Still not good poo poo to let go into the atmosphere- it's not munching on the ozone layer any more but 1kg of R134a is equivalent to 1300kg of CO2 in terms of greenhouse gas!
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Jan 28, 2015 15:45
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I need to find a different way to get the dust out of my electronics  .
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Jan 28, 2015 18:35
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EightBit posted:I need to find a different way to get the dust out of my electronics I've not seen a can of R12 or R134a as a duster or air horn in the US in quite some time (even longer for R12 of course, but they did used to use it for that). These days it's all R152a. Which is what I'm using as a refrigerant instead of R134a these days on my own beaters...........
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Jan 28, 2015 18:44
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Motronic posted:I've not seen a can of R12 or R134a as a duster or air horn in the US in quite some time (even longer for R12 of course, but they did used to use it for that). I bought this a few weeks ago in south Texas: 
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Jan 28, 2015 19:42
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Geirskogul posted:Canned air is r134, but not r134a. R 134a is F3-C-C-FH2 whereas canned air is F2H-C-C-F2H. One decomposes much faster in the upper atmosphere. I'll let you guess which. The stuff I used to buy all the time was 1,1,1,2-tetrafluoroethane, which is R134a. You're describing 1,1,2,2-tetrafluoroethane, which is R134 like you said but I've never seen it anywhere ever, by CAS number, chemical name, or R-number :dunno: Most I see these days is either R134a or R152a. With bitterant, which is great when you use the drat stuff right before eating. gently caress. 
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Jan 28, 2015 19:49
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It's probably just the lovely off-brand stuff I buy from harbor freight or wherever (radio shack? Staples?), then. I agree about the bitterant, though. I accidentally closed the hood to the beetle on a can of duster once (heard a hissing after closing, freaked out about the tires or something until what I did kicked in) and the entire inside is contaminated. I always wear gloves and put things in bags I put in the frunk now because it makes everything bitter.
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Jan 28, 2015 20:30
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EightBit posted:I bought this a few weeks ago in south Texas: Wow.....how much was that? Because it might be cheaper than buying it in refrigerant cans at this point.
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Jan 28, 2015 21:20
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Motronic posted:Wow.....how much was that? $8.99 before sales tax. It's definitely cheaper than going to an auto parts store for it, but only slightly cheaper than wal-mart prices.
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Jan 28, 2015 22:54
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Well we've had a success!!! Got the cruiser topped up with gas, took not a lot but it dropped the vent temps from 11 degrees to 5.8 degrees so thats good enough and we replaced the busted AC line on my mates Subaru Liberty and got that all frosty to the point it will haul the cabin down to 18 degrees in under 5 mins. It was a royal PITA to get to the Receiver drier, which is on the side of the condenser, which involved practically removing the drat thing from the car, which involved pulling the drat bumper!  God drat that was a pain in the dick.
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Jan 31, 2015 09:12
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Got my Explorer purged! Have the compressor, orifice tube, and accumulator ready; what else do I need to do or be wary of before I start ripping this thing apart tonight?
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Mar 13, 2015 19:00
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Wasabi the J posted:Got my Explorer purged! I don't remember what was wrong, but if your compressor shat itself you're going to want to flush the lines first.
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Mar 13, 2015 19:45
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Motronic posted:I don't remember what was wrong, but if your compressor shat itself you're going to want to flush the lines first. Oh yeah, I also have a air compressor for that.
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Mar 13, 2015 19:47
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Wasabi the J posted:Oh yeah, I also have a air compressor for that. Do you have a flush kit and solvent? Because that part is kinda important.
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Mar 13, 2015 20:18
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No, I don't. Any recommendations?
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Mar 13, 2015 21:16
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Wasabi the J posted:No, I don't. Any recommendations? Yep. http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000HAUXLE/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pC_S_ttl?_encoding=UTF8&colid=1EPIDFF8Y8W1G&coliid=I2EAKQQBDOSE4Q http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000HTNPLU/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pC_nS_ttl?_encoding=UTF8&colid=1EPIDFF8Y8W1G&coliid=I1XWF2PIPXO1RJ Obviously you need refrigerant and oil as well. And all of the tools/gauges/can taps/vac pump.
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Mar 13, 2015 21:41
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Motronic posted:Yep. They were gonna re-charge my system when I was done with the work; will I need all the other poo poo too? My plan was to take it apart, flush, replace the rings, compressor, and accumulator.
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Mar 13, 2015 21:58
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Well, you shouldn't replace the accumulator until exactly right before you vac the system.
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Mar 13, 2015 22:00
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Motronic posted:Well, you shouldn't replace the accumulator until exactly right before you vac the system. Ok, would a shop reasonably be able to do this or would I need to also get a vacuum pump?
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Mar 13, 2015 22:06
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Wasabi the J posted:Ok, would a shop reasonably be able to do this or would I need to also get a vacuum pump? Any shop than can charge the system ought to be able to swap an accumulator or do this entire job..........unless I'm missing something here. I don't like doing piecework AC like this. How are you going to know/test that the system holds a vacuum or pressure after the work? If the find out it doesn't at the shop what are you going to do? Take it back, have them fix it? This all just seems like a pain in the rear end. Why not either do it all or let them do it all?
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Mar 13, 2015 22:09
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Motronic posted:Any shop than can charge the system ought to be able to swap an accumulator or do this entire job..........unless I'm missing something here. Because I'm kinda broke at the moment but summer is looming. It's already in the 80's here in Vegas (suck it, east coast). I guess you're right though; book time is "only" 2 hours for the job, and he's a pretty honest mechanic, so I think I'll start saving my pennies.
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Mar 13, 2015 22:12
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I've got an old R12 system that is running low. The compressor clutch will engage if I short the pressure switch, but the pressure's too low for it to engage on its own. There's still some pressure in the system, though, so it's not completely empty (which after all this time I guess means there's not a leak?). I don't know the exact pressure level since I don't have a manifold gauge, but a friend who was looking at the car gave the low side schrader valve a super-quick press and there was enough pressure to hiss by. The car's an 88, and most of its parts have a manufacture date of 87 on them (duh). I know the drier should only last about 7 years and probably needs to be replaced, anything beyond that? I should have a source for R12 and will be taking the test, so converting to 134a's not on the table. Does more need to be replaced aside from the drier? Do I need to do any flushing, or just a refill once the drier's on?
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Mar 13, 2015 23:48
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Motronic posted:Yep. Ok, these flushing things - do they connect to shop air, or a nitrogen canister or...? I'm finishing the AC system in my goofy old Dodge - It's mostly the Classic Auto Air system I installed last year, except with a couple of new hoses to reach the compressor attached to the new engine. I'd like to flush out the old part of the system as it seems like good practice - the system was working fine when it was disconnected, and I tried to be good about keeping the various ports plugged, but a flush seems like a sensible thing to do? Which leads to a query about the oil in the system - obviously the old system had oil in it. The compressor on the new engine (with about 4000 miles on it before I got it) would also have oil in it, of some volume. How can I ensure that in total, I have the "correct" amount of oil in the system? Both are 134a systems, is there something I should research about oil compatibility between the systems?
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Mar 13, 2015 23:58
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Nitrogen would be the ideal setup, yes. You don't really want to use compressed air due to the moisture in it, but I guess if you're going to vacuum it out anyways though air won't be the end of the world.
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Mar 14, 2015 00:07
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Sentient Data posted:(which after all this time I guess means there's not a leak?). It absolutely does not mean that. And if it's low enough that the low pressure switch is being tripped (assuming it is working properly) there is no liquid refrigerant left in the system, only gas. And it's not likely to be much. Sentient Data posted:I know the drier should only last about 7 years That is 100% wrong. Dryers are one-time use components that take any residual moisture out of a system after it has been opened and then stay in line doing nothing (because you can't taken them out without opening the system). Every time you open the system the dryer should be replaced. Sentient Data posted:Does more need to be replaced aside from the drier? Do I need to do any flushing, or just a refill once the drier's on? Who knows. But R12 is expensive enough at this point that I'd want to put nitrogen in it for an extended full pressure test. If it leaks down it's time to triage. Based on what I have available I'd probalby put dye and half a can of R12 in, run it and see where the dye leaks out. Then recover the system, replace the faulty component(s) and the dryer, nitrogen test again, vac and fill. jhcain posted:Which leads to a query about the oil in the system - obviously the old system had oil in it. The compressor on the new engine (with about 4000 miles on it before I got it) would also have oil in it, of some volume. How can I ensure that in total, I have the "correct" amount of oil in the system? Both are 134a systems, is there something I should research about oil compatibility between the systems? You aren't going to have any oil in parts of the system that were flushed, and you should remove and drain the compressor to determine how much oil is in it. Or just to drain it and replace with new oil.
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Mar 14, 2015 02:39
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Motronic posted:Who knows. But R12 is expensive enough at this point that I'd want to put nitrogen in it for an extended full pressure test. Thanks, makes sense and that sucks about a potential leak. I know the drier had to go anyway if the system was opened, I just read the time lifespan in a few places and thought that meant it had to be swapped even if the system was still closed (though I guess low pressure means it's slightly open by definition). What's a decent source for the nitrogen to test with? Stick with the same psi as if it were r12 or is there a different target? E: but yeah, hopefully I hit the lottery and it's just a bad low pressure switch - a pressure test as-is is the first step once i can get my hands on a prior gauge Sentient Data fucked around with this message at 03:00 on Mar 14, 2015 |
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Mar 14, 2015 02:55
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Sentient Data posted:What's a decent source for the nitrogen to test with? Stick with the same psi as if it were r12 or is there a different target? Any gas supply house. Same place you'd buy CO2, Argon, Oxygen, etc. And you need to make sure it's dry nitrogen. And I put in about 120 PSI. In a shop setting where I have access to a leak detector I put in a few ounces of R-22 first and then pressurize, because R-22 shows up real easy for leak detectors. At home I just use it just to see if it holds pressure and then use dye to find the leak as mentioned earlier. In fact, I've used beverage CO2 at home for the same purpose because that's all I happened to have a the time. No, it's not as dry but I figure I'm vacing it anyway when I'm done.
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Mar 14, 2015 03:01
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Motronic posted:You aren't going to have any oil in parts of the system that were flushed, and you should remove and drain the compressor to determine how much oil is in it. Or just to drain it and replace with new oil. Ok, got it. Remove the compressor, and just... turn it upside down to drain out the oil? I can do that. What about the new oil - how much? And is it just dumped into the compressor, or can/will it be injected as part of the charging process? This was easier with the last setup, as the compressor came new with the correct amount of oil in it...
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Mar 14, 2015 15:22
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So I just got a new to me vehicle, and the a/c by all appearances works perfectly, BUT When the compressor is engaged, it makes a noise that I would compare to a noisy valvetrain, or maybe spark knock. Something like that. I assume the compressor has some internal issue. Should I just let it go until it dies? I'm guessing that with knowledge of this issue, even if I changed it out now, the lines need to be flushed, new drier, etc. It only is noisy when a/c clutch is engaged, silent otherwise.
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Mar 14, 2015 17:36
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jhcain posted:Ok, got it. Remove the compressor, and just... turn it upside down to drain out the oil? I can do that. What about the new oil - how much? And is it just dumped into the compressor, or can/will it be injected as part of the charging process? Yes, turn it over so the ports are facing down and drain it. As far as how much oil..........I have no idea. Same on refrigerant. When you are frankensteining a system you have to get creative. Did the manufacturer of the retrofit system specify any of that or some sort of range? Typically when putting oil in a new system I'll put 1/3 of it into the compressor (if reasonable - sometimes you have to install them with the ports facing down to hard lines in which case screw it) and then I inject the rest through the service line of the manifold gauge while it's still under vacuum. You can typically get almost all of it in there before you run out of vac. If I do run out of vac I take the service line off of the gauges and fill it with oil, reattach and add some refrigerant to get it in the system. Repeat as many times as necessary. This is all much simpler with a "real" service machine, which you just tell it to inject oil from the reservoir you filled to the appropriate level on the side. But whatever.....it can be done with minimal tools if you think through it. angryrobots posted:So I just got a new to me vehicle, and the a/c by all appearances works perfectly, BUT It may or may not have grenaded yet. If it hasn't you probably just need a new compressor and dryer. If you let it grenade you're gonna need to flush and possibly replace the TXV or orifice tube also. And, FIY parallel flow condensers don't flush worth a poo poo so if you have one of those and the system is really black-deathy you probably want to swap that out too, or bring it to a rad shop that can actually flush it.
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Mar 14, 2015 18:02
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The other possibility is that its just normal noise or not even directly related to the A/C. My old NB Miata would rattle like that when in neutral with the clutch out and A/C on. Pushing the clutch pedal or turning off the A/C would quiet it down. As far as I know, the A/C is still working cold and that noise was there since 2004.
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Mar 14, 2015 19:54
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IOwnCalculus posted:The other possibility is that its just normal noise or not even directly related to the A/C. My old NB Miata would rattle like that when in neutral with the clutch out and A/C on. Pushing the clutch pedal or turning off the A/C would quiet it down. Indeed, I hit the clutch while in neutral with a/c engaged, and the noise went away. Upon further inspection, it's not even the a/c compressor but sounds like it's coming from the back of the engine or transaxle. Throw out bearing maybe? Either way, thank you for pointing this out, and carry on. Looks like my a/c is safe for the upcoming season.
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Mar 15, 2015 17:43
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The throwout bearing did eventually poo poo itself and take the clutch out with it... but that was somewhere around 2012-2013 I think, and 80,000 miles after I first noticed said noise. It was about due for a clutch by then anyway. I haven't actually been in the car since it got the clutch done. My mother in law still owns it, I just have zero reason to ride as her passenger 
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Mar 15, 2015 18:24
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Question - the vehicle I drive for work is a 2006 PT Cruiser 2.4 auto (radio station vehicle), and it does not like having the ac on while at a stop light, or even just idling in neutral or park. The compressor will engage, and bog the engine down almost to the point of stalling...then the car will rev a bit to compensate, then the next cycle it happens again, repeat etc. While in traffic today, I put it in neutral and had it at about 1200 rpm to not stall while at a light. Compressor engaged...then a bit of smoke came out from the hood. But no noise. Could it be the bearings are going bad in the compressor, and causing the engine to bog down that bad, vs just being a lovely PT cruiser? It only has 64k miles on it...can a compressor go that quick?
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Mar 18, 2015 02:30
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It could be that it's a complete piece of poo poo from the day it came out of the factory. In fact, that's almost definitely the explanation. It's also not your problem since someone else owns it.
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Mar 18, 2015 13:58
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