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the spyder posted:So I'm debating temporarily becoming a contractor again. I guess it's best described as a contract-to-hire position. A local firm is picking up ex-coworkers as contractors until their hiring resumes in Q2. They are offering less hours with a 30% pay bump with a promise to hire full time in Q2. (The downside is there's nothing in writing about the hiring part and there can't be due to some issues I can't discuss.) My current job has become insufferable and while stable, it's not looking good and I want out. (We're also in process of being acquired, again.) Our CEO has gone crazy and is taking the business down with him. I'm debating between holding out for the stock options/bonus and then jumping (March), or start contracting Feb 1st. It's a tough choice and honestly, if my math's right I'll make more in the three month interim due to the pay bump then my stock is worth. My ex-coworkers are happy and are trying to get me to leave my current position and join them. One of them has known the CIO for years and trusts him. The company is going through it's own pains though- consolidating offices and growing the local staff base. There's a huge IT audit going on and I think I will try and hold out until that mess is over. They're also the only other local firm who is interested in the HPC work I have spent my last three years specializing in. You won't be 1099, right? Other than that, only you know your market. If you don't get converted, do you have savings to last? Is the job market there good enough or your skills in demand enough that you wouldn't need to be on the market long? Also, stock can be tricky if you need to vest or sell in trading windows
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Jan 28, 2015 06:12
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Misogynist posted:The informal contract-to-hire situation is likely to get your employer flagged by the IRS, unless their intention is to retroactively classify you as W-2 and back-pay the taxes they owe. Without that piece of paper, if the IRS sees someone earn income in the same calendar year for the same company as both a contractor and an employee of the company, it is immediately going to put them on the audit shortlist. Since the rules change a few years ago, the IRS has become very, very aggressive about employees being misclassified as contractors. When that happens, you're likely to be pulled into that, and may be audited yourself. I had not thought of that. It raises a interesting question for the employer and I would prefer to not be audited. Thanks! I just checked, it's a 36% raise- not that it matters a bunch. I'm planning on meeting my accountant buddy for lunch to run the numbers, but the rough numbers give me more in pocket "take home" with the only downside being a lapse in 401K. At the current company, our fringe benefits have shrank every year. Bonuses and raises were not given out this year despite us being profitable (First time in… 7 years?). Our health insurance is a mess and even our rep does not understand why the company has us setup on the current plan. At best I get $1500 of free parking. I'm willing to pay the $1000/m vs $400 I pay now for heath insurance, mainly because I can get a much better plan. And yes I have done this before. It's not terrible, but it's not something I'm looking forward to. The reasoning here is: my current job is so terrible, I'm willing to do all these things just to get away from it. It's basically ground hogs day at our office. No one knows why they are there, what they did yesterday, or how to learn from their mistakes. I'm amazed we have not been turned in for government contract funding misallocation/abuse. A program manager was telling me yesterday the CEO came up with this gem: "Hey guys, you know what sounds like a great idea? Let's find a way to bill our internal, commercial product offerings development into a government contract billable cost center. Think you can find somewhere we can slip a few engineers under existing long term support contracts?" I calculated the numbers today and we have had a 65% turn over the last two years and this month alone we lost three people and I just found out about another person leaving Thursday. the spyder fucked around with this message at 06:26 on Jan 28, 2015 |
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Jan 28, 2015 06:20
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evol262 posted:You won't be 1099, right? I will find out from one of the current contractors what they are. I have a LLC I can easily feed it though, since I have to file for it anyways. I do have savings and very little expenses if something happened. The job market is great. There's actually 3-4 places hiring Infrastructure Managers right now that if I wanted to go back down that route, it would not be difficult to land a similar paying job. I'm not worried about the stock, as I'm 99% sure it's non existent- It's phantom stock and seeing as I have a email saying "Opps, I'm holding everyones stock until lawyers fix this clause in here", it's basically the stock in Futurama that they give to Zoidberg for toilet paper.
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Jan 28, 2015 06:29
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the spyder posted:I will find out from one of the current contractors what they are. I have a LLC I can easily feed it though, since I have to file for it anyways. I do have savings and very little expenses if something happened. The job market is great. There's actually 3-4 places hiring Infrastructure Managers right now that if I wanted to go back down that route, it would not be difficult to land a similar paying job. I'm not worried about the stock, as I'm 99% sure it's non existent- It's phantom stock and seeing as I have a email saying "Opps, I'm holding everyones stock until lawyers fix this clause in here", it's basically the stock in Futurama that they give to Zoidberg for toilet paper. Misogynist already covered the salient points. Mostly audit risks, terrible insurance, quarterly taxes, needing an accountant to make sure you don't gently caress up your taxes for entitlements, and the possibility that it won't actually be a pay increase if you're 1099. What's the appeal? If your current place is bad, go. But not from the frying outs pan into the fire.
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Jan 28, 2015 07:13
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The Thread posted:
Yea, I'm assuming the work volume during those hours is less but you still need to have someone around for the stuff the does come up leaving a lot of time for certification study. Most of my friends are in the service industry so I'd still communicate with actual human beings. I'd want to know more about the gig though I do see no PTO until 1-year of service 
Gucci Loafers fucked around with this message at 10:07 on Jan 28, 2015 |
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Jan 28, 2015 10:04
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Late Night Work...
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Tab8715 posted:I'd want to know more about the gig though I do see no PTO until 1-year of service gently caress. That.
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Jan 28, 2015 13:13
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Inspector_666 posted:Aren't you still on the overnight shift? Yeah. Hence why I say that unless they offer you a shift differential stay the hell away from it. I went from $32k to $60k, and that's the only reason I stick with it. About the only benefit is that I have several hours of uninterrupted study time, so it works for me. I feel sorry for the poor bastards they pull off our server farm team to turn into Exchange Admins - they don't pay them poo poo compared to me. Either I got lucky during negotiations or those guys are so desperate they'll take the first offer.
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Jan 28, 2015 14:29
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Bhodi posted:Seriously don't do it, you will regret it for the rest of your life because it's a time machine, you'll wake up one day and realize a year has past and you have no significant memories of any of it, you're just a year older. As the parent of a 1 year old, this sounds remarkably like my last year! At least I have a cute babby to show for it I guess. Tab8715 posted:I'd want to know more about the gig though I do see no PTO until 1-year of service Seconding "gently caress that". Yes, employers, clearly there's a "talent shortage" in this country. It can't possibly be that no one wants to work for you because you're literally Ebeneezer Scrooge 
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Jan 28, 2015 17:31
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Docjowles posted:As the parent of a 1 year old, this sounds remarkably like my last year! At least I have a cute babby to show for it I guess.  . Carving out 30 minutes a day at home to work on my VM lab and study for certs is asking a lot.
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Jan 28, 2015 18:11
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Tab8715 posted:This is an oddball, has anyone gone through a 8pm to 8am shift? Three days on, three days off, two days on, two days off. I did my share of this last year. I had second shift 11AM-11PM and graveyard 12 hour schedules. If you have to do graveyard shift anyway, its probably the best way to do it since your schedule is all hosed up anyway that you can't do much outside of work to begin with. You basically go sleep work sleep work, then on 3 day breaks you can kinda work things in by waking up earlier or going to sleep later etc. You also forget what day it is half the time because you overlap 2 days and your day is everyone else morning/night. Some people I was working with liked the 12 hour shifts because they commute less and have the extra days off. Once I went back to a 5 day schedule though and was able to do things like watch a movie after work or have a sit down meal, or practice guitar or play video games... Then I decided it wasn't work having one extra free day when I can have shorter days with a bit of free time. Managers like it because if they have to do 24/7 schedule then it makes it easy for them to plan. With the 8 day schedule like that the days rotate out and you get the 3 days off over the weekend every so often and everyone shares the crappy days and aren't stuck working every Saturday and/or Sunday. So basically unless you are really hard up or experience for work and get extra compensation for overnights, I would avoid it.
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Jan 28, 2015 18:24
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evol262 posted:It's like a relationship. It is a relationship with your employer. If you're not on the market, why are you interviewing? Would your girlfriend consider it unethical if you were on Tinder or some dating site? Ahahaha what company are you the CEO of? We've spent the last 20 years learning that the "Relationship with your employer" is absolute bullshit. Maybe there was a period where companies were just as loyal to their employees as they expect the employees to be to them, but in the modern era of non competes, right to My relationship with my employer is they give me money and I do work. If whatever corporation I'm working for wants that attitude to change they need to start putting their money where their mouth is. Rhymenoserous fucked around with this message at 18:49 on Jan 28, 2015 |
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Jan 28, 2015 18:41
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I think the morale of the story here is even if a company treats you like poo poo take the high road and don't stoop down to their level.
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Jan 28, 2015 18:55
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Rhymenoserous posted:Ahahaha what company are you the CEO of? We've spent the last 20 years learning that the "Relationship with your employer" is absolute bullshit. Maybe there was a period where companies were just as loyal to their employees as they expect the employees to be to them, but in the modern era of non competes, right to You should try finishing that topic of conversation before posting a "this is how the world works, boyo" response. Not that you grasped what I was saying anyway.
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Jan 28, 2015 18:55
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In some perfect world, every IT worker (hell all worker) would stand up and stop putting up with the bullshit that employers put us through. And when bullshit companies aren't able to find workers they'll wise up and stop being bullshit. But until that happens, if you refuse to put it up with it, there's always going to be 100 people who for whatever reason will put up with it. I also have a pretty good employer that's basically respectful to me as a person, but I realize that there are far more people wanting to work at these kinds of places than there are places like this that exist. So it's nice to say, from a position of safety, that people should just take the high road and take a hike to greener pastures, but at the end of the day people have to eat, and that means some non-lovely people will have to work for lovely employers.
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Jan 28, 2015 19:02
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You can't pay rent with righteousness.
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Jan 28, 2015 19:04
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Rhymenoserous posted:Ahahaha what company are you the CEO of? We've spent the last 20 years learning that the "Relationship with your employer" is absolute bullshit. Maybe there was a period where companies were just as loyal to their employees as they expect the employees to be to them, but in the modern era of non competes, right to Please move somewhere with actual labour laws.
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Jan 28, 2015 19:09
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FISHMANPET posted:In some perfect world, every IT worker (hell all worker) would stand up and stop putting up with the bullshit that employers put us through. And when bullshit companies aren't able to find workers they'll wise up and stop being bullshit. But until that happens, if you refuse to put it up with it, there's always going to be 100 people who for whatever reason will put up with it. I also have a pretty good employer that's basically respectful to me as a person, but I realize that there are far more people wanting to work at these kinds of places than there are places like this that exist. So it's nice to say, from a position of safety, that people should just take the high road and take a hike to greener pastures, but at the end of the day people have to eat, and that means some non-lovely people will have to work for lovely employers. I think that if a company treats you like poo poo, you should leave. But the whole "if a company] treats someone like poo poo, then all companies treat people like poo poo, so I should return the favor" is an invalid argument, and discussions of how one ought to behave or how the world ought to be should not be predicated on how the world is. You can't pay rent with righteousness, and you may wind up working for a lovely company, but SH/SC decided somewhere that you're a "goon in a well" or intolerably naive if you treat companies and employers with anything other than the literal embodiment of Randian philosophy. I'm not trying to say you owe your employer anything more than basic honesty and ethical behavior, because that's what you owe everyone, and work is not an exception to the rules you live the rest of your life by. You shouldn't stay at a lovely company if you can avoid it. But don't compromise or abrogate your ethics or subject yourself to some kind of master/slave morality because you're in a situation where it's difficult to act ethically.
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Jan 28, 2015 19:33
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FISHMANPET posted:In some perfect world, every IT worker (hell all worker) would stand up and stop putting up with the bullshit that employers put us through. And when bullshit companies aren't able to find workers they'll wise up and stop being bullshit. But until that happens, if you refuse to put it up with it, there's always going to be 100 people who for whatever reason will put up with it. Honestly, until I started participating in this thread I had literally no idea how much I should have been compensated. After working at a few different companies the experience is night and day. Not every company works you at 110% nor are you managed with threats, insults or my favorite "Well, just figure it out.". Gucci Loafers fucked around with this message at 20:14 on Jan 28, 2015 |
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Jan 28, 2015 20:12
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We upgraded our fax manager software this morning to a newer version that supposed to fix other issues, it looks like it may have fixed those issues! But, now all our faxes are coming out with a watermark across them from this company http://www.glyphandcog.com/. It appears that the software vendor has decided to cut some corners and have included a trail version of a PDF creator in their enterprise software! We sends thousands of faxes a day and have probably had thousands of faxes go out to doctor's offices/pharmacies/hospitals/etc with this watermark on them. Ooops! This software vendor is one of the larger providers of EMR software around too!
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Jan 28, 2015 21:19
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Tab8715 posted:Honestly, until I started participating in this thread I had literally no idea how much I should have been compensated. The first edition of this thread was a huge eye opener for me, too. I'm making almost double now what I was making at the time (which isn't to say I'm rolling in cash now so much as I was really, REALLY underpaid then) and working on way more interesting and enjoyable stuff. I'm part of an on-call rotation instead of being on duty literally 24/7/365. My coworkers generally enjoy coming to work rather than bitching about how everything is awful. I had always assumed those things were just kind of par for the course. Although to be fair, the place I was working was nowhere near as bad as some of the SH/SC horror stories. So thanks goons for motivating me out of the rut I was in 3 years ago 
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Jan 28, 2015 21:50
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evol262 posted:It's like a relationship. It is a relationship with your employer. If you're not on the market, why are you interviewing? Would your girlfriend consider it unethical if you were on Tinder or some dating site? Harems are relationships, too. You're not on the market, but you bet your rear end someone's swiping right while actively loving you.
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Jan 28, 2015 22:55
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Docjowles posted:The first edition of this thread was a huge eye opener for me, too. I'm making almost double now what I was making at the time (which isn't to say I'm rolling in cash now so much as I was really, REALLY underpaid then) and working on way more interesting and enjoyable stuff. I'm part of an on-call rotation instead of being on duty literally 24/7/365. My coworkers generally enjoy coming to work rather than bitching about how everything is awful. I had always assumed those things were just kind of par for the course. Although to be fair, the place I was working was nowhere near as bad as some of the SH/SC horror stories. Here here. Thanks to this and the other two bitching threads, I've tripled my salary and lowered my compulsion to work 80 hours a week to prove myself for that 50 cent an hour raise that never shows up.
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Jan 28, 2015 22:57
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mattfl posted:We upgraded our fax manager software this morning to a newer version that supposed to fix other issues, it looks like it may have fixed those issues! But, now all our faxes are coming out with a watermark across them from this company http://www.glyphandcog.com/. It appears that the software vendor has decided to cut some corners and have included a trail version of a PDF creator in their enterprise software! We sends thousands of faxes a day and have probably had thousands of faxes go out to doctor's offices/pharmacies/hospitals/etc with this watermark on them. Ooops! This software vendor is one of the larger providers of EMR software around too! That's pretty bad, was this a one time cost or ongoing service? You should get a refund either way though, talk about bushleague
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Jan 28, 2015 23:02
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evol262 posted:You can't pay rent with righteousness, and you may wind up working for a lovely company, but SH/SC decided somewhere that you're a "goon in a well" or intolerably naive if you treat companies and employers with anything other than the literal embodiment of Randian philosophy. evol262 posted:It's like a relationship. It is a relationship with your employer. If you're not on the market, why are you interviewing? Would your girlfriend consider it unethical if you were on Tinder or some dating site?
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Jan 28, 2015 23:36
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evol262 posted:Misogynist already covered the salient points. Mostly audit risks, terrible insurance, quarterly taxes, needing an accountant to make sure you don't gently caress up your taxes for entitlements, and the possibility that it won't actually be a pay increase if you're 1099. Turns out it's a 40% increase. Appeal other then money? Room to grow, awesome budget, complete DC build out. Full time employee after ~ 3 months. Ironically enough I got a phone call this morning offering me a Senior Infrastructure Engineer role at another local company. I'm going to pursue it and see where it goes. I've got a friend there now and he loves it. If not, I'll re-evaluate the contract-to-hire position. I also got a bonus today, but no one else did? I'm hoping the other managers have not gotten around to it today, otherwise people are going to be mad.
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Jan 28, 2015 23:45
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Don't talk about bonuses at work
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Jan 29, 2015 00:09
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I got asked by a recruiter if I'm interested in contract work. I've never done contracts. Anyone have advice on how to go down that route?
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Jan 29, 2015 00:13
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Contract work can suck if you have a nice cushy FTE position with a good benefit package. On the plus side no one really expects much from contractors. You put in exactly 40 hours and thats it.
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Jan 29, 2015 00:15
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the spyder posted:Turns out it's a 40% increase. Appeal other then money? Room to grow, awesome budget, complete DC build out. Full time employee after ~ 3 months. Was that explicitly spelled out or "eligible to become a full time employee"? Back when I was an independent consultant, that always ended with "sorry, the budget's just not there". the spyder posted:I also got a bonus today, but no one else did? I'm hoping the other managers have not gotten around to it today, otherwise people are going to be mad. Just don't mention it to anyone. No one else needs to know anyway. Dr. Arbitrary posted:I got asked by a recruiter if I'm interested in contract work. I've never done contracts. Anyone have advice on how to go down that route? Depends on the work and your level of experience. If you're being hired as a gunslinger or troubleshooter, those can be interesting and rewarding, but you can burn out fast putting out fires or rescuing projects. Tons of pressure and you're expected to produce results almost immediately. If you're talking about working as a contractor as part of a company's day to day staff, it can be a good way to get experience by working on different assignments. In those cases, you're better off going through a staffing firm than being independent. There's a whole new level of hell when it comes to paperwork and taxes. It's basically a second job. Let them take care of it and go W-2. Be warned, the pay is never really competitive, but if you need the experience it may be worth the trade-off. Proteus Jones fucked around with this message at 00:36 on Jan 29, 2015 |
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Jan 29, 2015 00:17
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EDIT; DOUBLE POST
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Jan 29, 2015 00:35
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1099 Contract Checklist. Are you ready to:
Edit: Also don't 1099 through a third party company who will "handle" this sort of poo poo for you. It's a scam. Either W2 with them and subcontract to the parent contract or do it yourself - otherwise they're literally just skimming 15-20% per hour off the top as basically a "finder's fee" while doing absolutely nothing for either you or the prime other than being the go-between. VVV good point I forgot insurance / being bonded. You also might have unions to deal with, depending. Bhodi fucked around with this message at 00:49 on Jan 29, 2015 |
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Jan 29, 2015 00:44
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Bhodi posted:1099 Contract Checklist. Are you ready to: If you plan on doing *any* kind of cabling, you'll need to purchase an insurance bond in case you break stuff. Oh, and EVERYTHING in writing before works starts with 30% in hand. 30% at project start and remainder due upon completion. (or you can go 50 to start and 50 on completion)
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Jan 29, 2015 00:49
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SaltLick posted:Don't talk about bonuses at work
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Jan 29, 2015 00:50
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Yeah, I forgot having a solid statement of work (with milestones!) if you're expected to deliver a product rather than just be a straight consultant. That means having a contract, which means retaining a lawyer. See: gently caress you, pay me If all this is intimidating, it's meant to be. You didn't think all that extra money came for free, did you? (Don't forget paying both sides of social security, lolololol) Bhodi fucked around with this message at 00:56 on Jan 29, 2015 |
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Jan 29, 2015 00:54
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Misogynist posted:Professional etiquette is one thing, but if your employer encourages employees not to talk about money with each other they're violating the National Labor Relations Act It's more of an implied or culture thing and not a sue-able policy in a lot of places, though. Was like that at the bank, but I still talked about it with some people. I'm at the state now though, a tiny bit of internet detective work and you could find out exactly how much I make. Also, knowing how much everyone up the chain from you makes is interesting information.
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Jan 29, 2015 00:59
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CloFan posted:It's more of an implied or culture thing and not a sue-able policy in a lot of places, though. Was like that at the bank, but I still talked about it with some people. When I worked at my Universities Library it didn't even take internet detective work. We had a giant binder that had to be updated regularly with the salary of every non-student employee of the University. All you had to do was ask to see it.
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Jan 29, 2015 01:02
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Bhodi posted:
God, yes. I was trying to scare as well  Really, it boils down to you are skilled and in demand, in which case going the independent route can make sense financially. Or, you work for a staffing firm as a W-2 employee working on contracts they acquire. Which is less than most direct hires will make, but is a good way to get practical experience if you are still starting out. Anything else will probably end in tears and bankruptcy.
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Jan 29, 2015 01:05
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The Dreamer posted:When I worked at my Universities Library it didn't even take internet detective work. We had a giant binder that had to be updated regularly with the salary of every non-student employee of the University. All you had to do was ask to see it. Now available in PDF on the internet!
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Jan 29, 2015 01:12
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Paladine_PSoT posted:Harems are relationships, too. You're not on the market, but you bet your rear end someone's swiping right while actively loving you. Not really what the harem was about, but ok. Bhodi posted:Companies are not people, no matter what the Supreme Court says. Stop trying to anthropomorphize them. It's easy to laugh about because Goon Emotions Beep Boop, but there should be no emotional element to your professional relationship because it can only go in one direction and that's practically the definition of unhealthy. It is an analogy beep boop. Seriously. It was an analogy. And companies aren't people, but your boss isn't a company. And the hiring manager isn't a company. And the person you might wanna use as a reference or who networks with other people isn't a company, and...
That aside, this discussion is just derailing the thread. I don't really care if a million people jump on me when I suggest that you don't have to be a character from Neuromancer (or your cyberpunk/anarcho-capitalist book of choice). But if you want to, you should make a different thread. Because we don't need 6 pages of "you're wrong doormat lol" (paraphrasing) every time, and it's gonna happen more often. Maybe we can have a real discussion about employer relations. Or how to get to a position where everyone assumes you're naive because you have it good without actually knowing anything about your employment history.
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Jan 29, 2015 01:16
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evol262 posted:Not really what the harem was about, but ok.
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Jan 29, 2015 01:19
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