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Disinterested posted:There are a lot of cool people in Romania. Including a lot of beautiful women. It's a fun, if kind of hosed up, place. balkans.txt I'm Serbian dude, you don't have to tell me. Romania and Serbia are like each other's only neighbor most of the population has positive opinions about. I already know three romance languages with varying degrees of fluency; I guess I should pick up some Romanian and go visit this summer.  E: What was that Romanian saying, "Romania has only two good neighbors: Serbia and the Black Sea."?
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Jan 29, 2015 19:57
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3peat posted:Her song and video are also way better than last year's biggest romanian hit, which was some cringeworthy poo poo: I remember this was out when I was in Romania last: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VSaVz3bEP1E
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Jan 29, 2015 20:10
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All right 3peat, you guys can come hang with us here in the Balkans. Just bring lollipops.
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Jan 29, 2015 20:15
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3peat post that reggaeton-like Romanian song again
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Jan 29, 2015 20:24
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Gosh, this reminds me that the Eurovision season should begin again soon, I can't wait 
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Jan 29, 2015 20:31
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my dad posted:Whitelands of South Africa might be a good place to get hired with such a CV, honestly. I have a relative who has a crazy story from his time spent working there. His coworkers were suspicious of him (in a really bad way) because of his Serbian (AKA Slavic) accent, but once they heard he has a German surname (His grandfather was a Yugoslav German who joined the Partizans and fought the Nazis, his father married one of my aunts) they relaxed, started making Jew jokes, and it wasn't too long before he found that some of them had Swastika tattoos. That was a rather awkward/scary period of his life. My Father used to climb in the Caucasus in Soviet times. Once his group got lost, found a remote looking village (propably Lezgians he guessed), and met a quite hostile reception. Until one of the pretty tough villagers asked where my Fathers accent came from. He awnsered Germany, and the mood did an immidiate 180% shift. The group was pretty much feted, regaled with tales that it was them who raised the Swastika over the Caucasus and many inquiries about the Health of Adolph Hitler or his grand children. This was in the late 70s.... His Russian cotravellers just said nothing and nodded, until the helpfull villages escorted the group into a territory where they had their bearings again.
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Jan 29, 2015 20:39
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That sounds similar to the stories of German troops in WW2 who occupied a remote village in Yugoslavia whose inhabitants waved Austro-Hungarian flags at their arrival and asked who the current emperor was.
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Jan 29, 2015 20:45
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SaltyJesus posted:balkans.txt Romanian is really easy to learn to a superficial degree if you know other romance languages (or even english) as there are a lot of similar or identical words, but extremely difficult to learn to an advanced level as the grammar is ridiculously hard, so I'd suggest sticking to just the superficial level Also, I have a question: why do Serbs and Bulgarians dislike eachother? I've seen some hilarious flamewars between the 2 on other forums. Is it because ya'll fought some wars a while ago, or is there some clay issue? SaltyJesus posted:3peat post that reggaeton-like Romanian song again Which one? there's plenty lol Actually the only one I remember posting itt that's kinda reggaeton is this one https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KifQ5BXcie0 edit: bonus romanian reggaeton  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lK7RHq65Vd0 3peat fucked around with this message at 21:13 on Jan 29, 2015 |
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Jan 29, 2015 20:51
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Lead out in cuffs posted:It's a thing. Check out the Wikipedia articles. They have a ton of Nazi symbolism with hammers-and-sickles replacing swastikas, and behave exactly as you would expect a bunch of neofascists to behave. I've been wondering about how these sorts of things happen for a long while. It's like, after the fall of communism and after the radical left movement in the West fell apart, the ideology underwent a really weird nationalist/far-right metamorphosis and they ended up adopting a lot of the ideas of their supposedly hated fascist enemies. And yet, another strain of the same ideology adopted the Palestinian struggle and various anti-zionist stances. I wish I understood it how this sort of thing is possible, it seems so terribly curious in a twisted sort of way. The only person I've come across who comes close to addressing it is Adam Curtis, but his explanations seem to be missing something imo
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Jan 29, 2015 21:00
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Friendly Tumour posted:I've been wondering about how these sorts of things happen for a long while. It's like, after the fall of communism and after the radical left movement in the West fell apart, the ideology underwent a really weird nationalist/far-right metamorphosis and they ended up adopting a lot of the ideas of their supposedly hated fascist enemies. And yet, another strain of the same ideology adopted the Palestinian struggle and various anti-zionist stances. I wish I understood it how this sort of thing is possible, it seems so terribly curious in a twisted sort of way. The only person I've come across who comes close to addressing it is Adam Curtis, but his explanations seem to be missing something imo Support for the Palestinians and Anti-zionism doesn't seem much of a contradiction if you look at criticism of South Africa pre-1994 in the same light. Otherwise, left/far-right and far-right causes sometimes overlap over rather populist issues (like anti-austerity) and criticism of American foreign policy (sometimes for different reasons). Both are against the status quo which is firmly neoliberalism guided by the Washington consensus, but often different motivations and there is usually a break on social issues/immigration. In addition, this is enhanced by national issues, the left-wing in Greece has its own ire for the Washington consensus which at times a lines with chords Putin (for his own agenda) has been striking, but Putin is a authoritarian reactionary not a democratic socialist. An argument could be certainly be made that the failures of neoliberalism, including Latin America, the former Soviet Union and Southern Europe have ultimately lead to a multitude of political movements that are trying to change the status quo in often a hapzard manner that has created seemingly strange alliances. In addition, this has also led to a rise of conspiracy theories, especially about science and "covert operations." That is more or less my description of about 10 threads going on at the moment.
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Jan 29, 2015 21:10
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Friendly Tumour posted:I've been wondering about how these sorts of things happen for a long while. It's like, after the fall of communism and after the radical left movement in the West fell apart, the ideology underwent a really weird nationalist/far-right metamorphosis and they ended up adopting a lot of the ideas of their supposedly hated fascist enemies. And yet, another strain of the same ideology adopted the Palestinian struggle and various anti-zionist stances. I wish I understood it how this sort of thing is possible, it seems so terribly curious in a twisted sort of way. The only person I've come across who comes close to addressing it is Adam Curtis, but his explanations seem to be missing something imo
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Jan 29, 2015 21:23
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Lead out in cuffs posted:It's a thing. Check out the Wikipedia articles. They have a ton of Nazi symbolism with hammers-and-sickles replacing swastikas, and behave exactly as you would expect a bunch of neofascists to behave. When I first heard of them last year, I thought they were a joke, because, you know, obviously, right? And then I read more about them and needed a moment of silence while I stared at the computer screen.  3peat posted:Also, I have a question: why do Serbs and Bulgarians dislike eachother? I've seen some hilarious flamewars between the 2 on other forums. Is it because ya'll fought some wars a while ago, or is there some clay issue? Nationalists or regular people? I was in Bulgaria for about 3 weeks twice, back while I was in highschool, most people were really friendly. (Me and the Bulgarian dudes I hanged out with learned the hard way that Russian tourist girls can drink a lot more than we can) Also, my father used to work for a Bulgarian company in Serbia without having any problems with Bulgarians. As for the nationalists, it's complicated. It ironically started with the Serbian government greatly aiding the Bulgarian war for independence, which was primarily supported by the most prominent Serbian party (early liberal, kinda social-democrat oriented Radical Party*). However, Serbia went through a political turmoil which included becoming a puppet of AH (first in secret, some time later a lot more publicly) and suppression of democracy, which resulted in a revolt lead by the Radicals (they won the elections and the king told them to gently caress off, then he made another stupid decision a bit later). The revolt failed, the revolutionaries fled to Bulgaria, and the king was persuaded by AH a few years later that crushing those uppity Bulgarians would be a great thing to do. The result was a stupid, pointless war that failed miserably (gee, I wonder why?), which only didn't become a total disaster for Serbia because the AH intervened. The whole fiasco left the Bulgarians rightfully feeling betrayed. When Serbia finally managed to restore democracy and stop being a puppet in 1903 (with AH raising hell about Serbian *ZERO connection to the modern party bearing a similar name e: Note that this is a major simplification of the relevant events my dad fucked around with this message at 21:31 on Jan 29, 2015 |
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Jan 29, 2015 21:24
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A Buttery Pastry posted:How much of that happened after the fall of the USSR? The ideology just reminds me of a modernized version of Stalinism, which makes sense given that a lot of Russians seem to think he was a great leader. Which ideology? Putin's?
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Jan 29, 2015 21:29
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Friendly Tumour posted:I've been wondering about how these sorts of things happen for a long while. It's like, after the fall of communism and after the radical left movement in the West fell apart, the ideology underwent a really weird nationalist/far-right metamorphosis and they ended up adopting a lot of the ideas of their supposedly hated fascist enemies. And yet, another strain of the same ideology adopted the Palestinian struggle and various anti-zionist stances. I wish I understood it how this sort of thing is possible, it seems so terribly curious in a twisted sort of way. The only person I've come across who comes close to addressing it is Adam Curtis, but his explanations seem to be missing something imo His 'Poodles of Power' blog article is pretty in depth about NatBols, and there are a lot of different factors involved, and ultimately one must recognize that there is no definitive 'right/left' dichotomy. First there are the American Neocons and how they started off as leftists in the 1960's - they were a reaction to Kissinger's realpolitick. Their idea was that America should be exporting its revolution and encouraging liberal democracy, instead of making deals with despots. The comparison with 'Trotskyists' is that they see themselves as a small vanguard advancing this 'freedom jihad' for the benefit of the apathetic/counter-revolutionary masses. They're hypocrites because they were never going to upset the apple-cart regarding US-Saudi relations. Internationalism presciently understood how technology would shrink the world. Moscow's chauvanism and geopolitical reality killed this ideal and it has been superseded by globalization. The Neoliberal status quo has also adopted the internationalist idea of de-emphasizing national pride (unless you are already a federation of small states and the greatest nation on earth  )The NatBol concept was to create a new geopolitical identity for Russians since their previous one was being demolished. Putin has adapted this into NovoRossiya / Eurasia. Mc Do Well fucked around with this message at 21:41 on Jan 29, 2015 |
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Jan 29, 2015 21:38
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Ardennes posted:Which ideology? Putin's?
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Jan 29, 2015 21:43
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A Buttery Pastry posted:National Bolsheviks/Dugin/whatever. They are pretty different in ways though, especially as far as economic ideology, the Nat Bols are very big into nationalization while Dugin I think if anything tries to avoid economic discussions. Both of they are "expansionary nationalists" though.
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Jan 29, 2015 21:46
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Ardennes posted:They are pretty different in ways though, especially as far as economic ideology, the Nat Bols are very big into nationalization while Dugin I think if anything tries to avoid economic discussions. Both of they are "expansionary nationalists" though.
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Jan 29, 2015 22:10
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A Buttery Pastry posted:How much of that happened after the fall of the USSR? The ideology just reminds me of a modernized version of Stalinism, which makes sense given that a lot of Russians seem to think he was a great leader. To be exact, I'm referring to the fall of the USSR as a period of time, not the date when it officially ceased to exist as a legal entity. When did the fall begin is a good question, but I'd argue much of the history of the radical left after the 70's was one of decline and a period when this 'metamorphosis' took place. I would argue that Stalinism by contrast was the high point of Marxist ideologies, the time when the faith of the adherents was so high and strong that it allowed for the atrocities associated with it to take place, but that's an argument better left for the communism thread. McDowell posted:His 'Poodles of Power' blog article is pretty in depth about NatBols, and there are a lot of different factors involved, and ultimately one must recognize that there is no definitive 'right/left' dichotomy. Ikr, I loving adore Curtis' work because of the immense complexity of the picture that he paints of how the different ideological strains of the last century have influenced each other even when ostensively opposed to each other. Ardennes posted:Support for the Palestinians and Anti-zionism doesn't seem much of a contradiction if you look at criticism of South Africa pre-1994 in the same light. Otherwise, left/far-right and far-right causes sometimes overlap over rather populist issues (like anti-austerity) and criticism of American foreign policy (sometimes for different reasons). Both are against the status quo which is firmly neoliberalism guided by the Washington consensus, but often different motivations and there is usually a break on social issues/immigration. I guess, but there's still a definite sense of irony in Carlos the Jackal the convicted Marxist revolutionary holding Jewish hostages to aid the struggle of Islamist fundamentalists.
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Jan 29, 2015 22:11
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3peat posted:the grammar is ridiculously hard We also have three genders and gender-number agreement. We have 7 noun cases where you guys have 5. :P In any case, learning languages is a bit of an obsession of mine so I'd take it as a challenge. 3peat posted:Why do Serbs and Bulgarians dislike eachother? Very little clay is contested anymore. The Bulgarians call it "Western Outlands", I've written about it a little earlier in the thread. Bulgarians historically thought a lot of what is now Eastern / South-Eastern Serbia is theirs but that's been settled pretty conclusively. The Macedonian question plays a big role in the first two decades of the 20th century. On our side they're seen as untrustworthy, turncloaks, and traitors. There was the Serbo-Bulgarian war we started in 1885 in which everybody hilariously played for the opposite side they would in all of the conflicts in the first half of the 20th century that followed. Bulgaria unifies, bringing together the Principality of Bulgaria and the Ottoman province Eastern Rumelia into a single, large state. Serbia and Greece get worried. After being promised support and territorial gain by the Austro-Hungarian empire and knowing the Bulgarian army is in the South-East, anticipating an Ottoman Attack, our retarded king declares a war. Fearing unrest he mobilizes only half the available army (mostly the younger guys), instead of appointing one of our very experienced military commanders he assumes control himself. The expected Ottoman attack doesn't come, our king gets his rear end handed to him and things start going bad. Austria-Hungary steps in and says "aight, that's enough" and the war ends a tie. It lasts only 14 days but the stage is set. E: my dad explained the political background of the Serbo-Bulgarian war much better than I was planning to so read that too. Then we fought together in the 1st Balkan War (1912/1913). Some light clashes during the war over who gets to claim what and what the real ethnicity of some villages is, nothing that major yet. Serbia receives the entirety of Vardar Macedonia (modern day FYROM), Greece receives the entirety of Greek Macedonia at the Treaty of London. Salty that they didn't get any of that sweet, sweet Macedonia they single-handedly launch the 2nd Balkan War (1913) against all their neighbors by trying to claim a little more clay from everybody. Seriously, it was Bulgaria on one side and Serbia, Greece, Montenegro, Romania, and the Ottoman Empire on the other. They predictably got thrashed and had to hand over some clay they started out with. In WW1 after we kicked out Austria twice they call their big bro Germany to bail them out. Sensing an opportunity Bulgaria, still pissed about the Balkan wars, becomes the last country to join the Central Powers in 1915. Serbia gets crushed in a major way, evacuating the army and a huge number of the civilian population through Albania and into Greece. Bulgaria flanks us from the east as Germany and Austria-Hungary drive down, gets to manage most of conquered Serbia.  In WW1 Serbia loses 25% of its prewar population, over half (57-62% is what I see quoted the most) of all males in Serbia die. The Bulgarian Prime Minister of the time, Vasil Radoslavov, gloats "Serbia ceased to exist". In occupied Serbia Bulgaria begins a program of bulgarization. It claims Eastern / South-Eastern Serbia is just old Bulgarian territories. Bulgarian teachers moved into schools, Bulgarian priests into churches, surnames changed from -ic to -ov/-ev, the language forbidden, birth records etc torched in some places, you know, the classics. I'll spare you the litany. The Bulgarian determination to recruit Serbs into their army sparks what I've read is the only massive uprising "behind the borders", ie. in occupied territory, in WW1. The Toplica Uprising rages for over a year, manages to stop the mobilization of Serbian recruits, and establishes a short lived liberated territory behind enemy lines. Inevitably it is crushed, the rebels were marched to my hometown and executed en masse under the walls of its fortress. This is where most of the resentment comes from on the Serbian side. WW1 was traumatic as gently caress for our nation and Bulgarians played the leading role. In WW2 we find ourselves on opposing sides yet again. Bulgaria occupies South-Eastern Serbia. Some things from WW1 reprise. Communism comes! Everything is forgiven!  Tito and Dimitrov have grand plans for unifying all Balkan communist nations. Western Outlands to be returned to Bulgaria, Bulgaria's reparation debt to be forgiven (and we did honor this even after the agreement fell through), Pirin and Vardar Macedonia to be united. Tito receives an invitation to Moscow and nopes out, Dimitrov accepts and gets assassinated. There are some complaints Tito sent teachers into Pirin Macedonia to educate them how they're really Macedonian a bit too fast. The agreement falls through mostly because the Tito-Stalin split happens and distrust grows massively as the Bulgarians insist on remaining cool with the Soviets.Basically we hate each other because 1912-1918 was real loving rough. There was some poo poo before and some poo poo after but that's really it. Two dominant powers in the region sharing a border with people along the border on both sides not really considering themselves either one or the other. --- A bit of personal history. My paternal grandfather not only comes from the last village before the Bulgarian border in the Western Outlands, he comes from the very last house in the very last village before the Bulgarian border. My grandma is from a village a bit up north, similarly close to the border. My maternal grandfather comes from Toplica? Remeber the Toplica Uprising and the reprisals? Yeah. I've started the process to get a dual Serbian-Bulgarian citizenship since I'm entitled to it by virtue of my father being born in Dimitrovgrad (named after Dimitrov I mentioned previously). My grandpa lived on the Serbian side of the border but went to school on the Bulgarian side for a while. My grandpa's older brother and his family are fully Bulgarian since he left to live in Sofia in his teens iirc. My paternal great-grandfather had two sons. One son, my great grandfather, had three sons, the other had a daughter. My grandfather's older brother lived in Bulgaria and is Bulgarian, my grandfather lived in Serbia and is Serbian, my grandfathers's younger brother served as a commander of a warship in the Yugoslav navy and settled in Croatia young, becoming a Croatian-Serbian dual citizen. Their respective children are Bulgarian, Serbian, and Croatian. My great-aunt by some circumstance ended up in Bosnia, her son is now a Bosnian. Nah, the one I meant had a bunch of young people and children dressed in summer shirts and shorts dancing in a street in a kinda ruined-looking neighborhood. Maybe I misremembered the reggaeton-ness of it. --- E: There is almost no enmity left between ordinary Bulgarian and Serbian people anymore. The collective memory is still much stronger in the South than in the rest but besides pissing matches, off the cuff remarks, and anachronistic phrases ("Bulgarian business" kinda like "Dutch courage", "A Bulgarian thinks one thing, says another, and does a third" etc.) people just commiserate about living in hosed up places that have been and could have been so much more. We are more alike than we are different. E: Oh yeah, I forgot. During communist times Yugoslavia was much less oppressive and much more economically prosperous than Bulgaria. Everybody my dad's age tells me stories of going over there on a student's wage and living like kings for weeks. Then in the mid-90s a Bulgarian dude told my dad "Брат, we've been chasing you for 50 years but you caught up to us in 3." SaltyJesus fucked around with this message at 23:06 on Jan 29, 2015 |
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Jan 29, 2015 22:41
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Maybe you were thinking of this guy: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5M2z3kUprQE
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Jan 29, 2015 22:47
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Jesus Christ you people. No offence, but still 
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Jan 29, 2015 22:54
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The Other Russia Party flag (totally not linked to  SA) lowtax please respond
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Jan 29, 2015 23:17
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Thanks for the explanations guys, I knew there's been some wars but I didn't know it was so hosed up, dratSaltyJesus posted:Nah, the one I meant had a bunch of young people and children dressed in summer shirts and shorts dancing in a street in a kinda ruined-looking neighborhood. Maybe I misremembered the reggaeton-ness of it. Ooh, it 's this one https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aT3j3lXp5bg That neighborhood is Ferentari, the roma ghetto in Bucharest And also an old one that I still like (I swear this is the last romanian reggaeton I post, don't get mad ya'll  )https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3lN2X062aU8
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Jan 29, 2015 23:21
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Found an English language article about Lukashenko's press conference held today. This is a staged event where the press from Russia is invited to listen to Batka preach for hours. Plenty of energy drinks and naps before the event are required. Today's press conference lasted 7 hours. http://www.rferl.org/content/belarus-lukashenka-defiant-at-marathon-press-conference/26820252.html quote:Belarusian President Alyaksandr Lukashenka has displayed defiance toward Russia and the West, warning them in a marathon news conference that he would bow to no one's will. Charter 97 has a summary with more detail, if you're so inclined.
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Jan 29, 2015 23:23
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Friendly Tumour posted:Jesus Christ you people. No offence, but still I remember back in the Balkans wars in the 90s, somebody gave as justification for an atrocity they'd committed that they were getting even for some other atrocity committed against them back in the 15th century or something. That told me everything I needed to know about the whole situation.
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Jan 29, 2015 23:29
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The Serbia-Bulgaria stuff is super interesting (and depressing), thanks a ton for the writeup! I also had no idea about Romania and Serbia being traditional friends, it's pretty cool to know this stuff. Someone should make a comprehensive chart of which Eastern European nations are historical bros 4 lyfe with each other, animosities are really obvious (thanks, frothing nationalists of the world!) while positive relationships can totally escape notice if you're not from one of the countries in question. There's Romania/Serbia, Poland/Hungary, Bulgaria/Greece and... uh... poo poo, that's all I know. There has to be more.
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Jan 29, 2015 23:33
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Leo Showers posted:lowtax please respond lowtax what do you say regarding allegations that little green goons have been dying in syrian torture camps
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Jan 29, 2015 23:33
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Friendly Tumour posted:Jesus Christ you people. No offence, but still The greatest tragedy of the Balkans is that the nations here almost managed to get egalitarian, tolerant democracies up and running, but got shut down hard by Austria-Hungary and the Ottoman Empire. Of course, the narrative of filthy Balkan barbarians who need to be overseen by true-blooded supermen also happens to originate from those two. Our modern nationalists love simplifying things, and go on telling bullshit about some ancient feuds that prove those other guys are an inferior race or something, and it plays right into it. Seriously, had Russia not suddenly left revolutionary Serbia alone in a war with the Ottomans (something that happens a lot) because of Napoleon's invasion, the First Serbian Uprising would have created a fully democratic government, grounded in stuff like separation of church and state, religious and national tolerance, an emphasis on education and science, and guaranteeing personal liberties. Sadly, that attempt ended with the Ottomans literally building a tower out of Serbian skulls not too far from Salty Jesus' hometown. Similar stuff happened in other Balkan countries, too. Deteriorata posted:I remember back in the Balkans wars in the 90s, somebody gave as justification for an atrocity they'd committed that they were getting even for some other atrocity committed against them back in the 15th century or something. That told me everything I needed to know about the whole situation. Incidentally, gently caress you, gently caress that guy, and gently caress everyone who believes this.
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Jan 29, 2015 23:34
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Tito also did some pretty good things imho. He has a special place in my heart for telling Stalin to gently caress off. Which takes major balls without nukes and without being in Nato. And why Russia indeed has a habit of leaving revolutionary allies out to dry, "welp, Napoleon is coming" is a way better excuse for doing so then they usually have. From a rough count, odds of Russia leaving a minor ally out to dry are about 6:5 or so. In the broad shape of things that is propably quite average.
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Jan 29, 2015 23:44
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Yeah, I can walk to the literal skull tower in 10 minutes from my paternal grandparents' place. The tragedy of the Balkans, like my dad says, is that we started out so well. You can lay the blame for pretty much every Balkan war of the 20th century at the feet of Austria-Hungary and the Ottomans. Doomed by geography to eternally being the chessboard of empires.
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Jan 29, 2015 23:46
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The skull tower we mentioned (or, at least, what remains of it today):
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Jan 29, 2015 23:50
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3peat posted:Ooh, it 's this one That makes me curious, what's the role of Roma like in Romanian culture? (aside from "acceptable target for the vilest possible racism" because we all know that's sadly universal) Edit: Mightypeon posted:propably I know nitpicking people's spelling is frowned upon, but you use this word multiple times in virtually every post and it's incredibly distracting. It's "probably". Not saying this to be a dick, I spelled it like you do for years until someone pointed it out. Guildencrantz fucked around with this message at 23:57 on Jan 29, 2015 |
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Jan 29, 2015 23:52
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Sounds Ukrainians are doing good so far around Debaltzevo: http://obozrevatel.com/crime/20168-pod-debaltsevo-unichtozhenyi-30-tankov-boevikov-donetskie-morgi-perepolnenyi-bloger.htm Supposedly the separatists attempted to attack villages north of there in order to trap the Ukrainians in Debaltzevo with about 40 tanks. According to the report about 30 of those were knocked out with Ukrainian artillery fire. Also mentioned in the report is the SBU report that Russians are rolling in with mobile crematoriums, apparently morgues in Donetsk are overfilling. Though that other blog I've translated a couple of times is only listing the Russian equipment losses around Debaltzevo today at 6 armored units and 4 artillery units so who knows. Sergiu64 fucked around with this message at 23:59 on Jan 29, 2015 |
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Jan 29, 2015 23:55
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A former employee did a tell-all on the infamous troll army headquarters at 55 Savushkina, where the paid commenters troll and people rewrite news articles for local "Ukrainian" news sites: http://www.sobaka.ru/city/city/32942/ English summary via Interpreter: http://www.interpretermag.com/russia-update-january-29-2015/#6579
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Jan 29, 2015 23:56
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Re: Lukashenka I totally loving called it!
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Jan 30, 2015 00:08
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my dad posted:The skull tower we mentioned (or, at least, what remains of it today): Whoa, that's some dark heritage you've got there. Fascinating nonetheless.
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Jan 30, 2015 00:11
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Friendly Tumour posted:I guess, but there's still a definite sense of irony in Carlos the Jackal the convicted Marxist revolutionary holding Jewish hostages to aid the struggle of Islamist fundamentalists. Eh I wouldn't describe PFLP as "Islamist fundamentalists", it was a Marxist helping other Marxists against Israel at that point. It isn't a mystery why many Marxists and Leftists haven't liked Israel for quite a while. As for him praising Bin Laden, it is very much an "enemy of my enemy" type of thing. Ardennes fucked around with this message at 00:32 on Jan 30, 2015 |
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Jan 30, 2015 00:29
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Sergiu64 posted:Sounds Ukrainians are doing good so far around Debaltzevo Some lifenews footage from Debaltzevo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jnDlkBJ0PKc Does anyone have a source on that mobile crematorium rumor?
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Jan 30, 2015 00:45
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Deteriorata posted:I remember back in the Balkans wars in the 90s, somebody gave as justification for an atrocity they'd committed that they were getting even for some other atrocity committed against them back in the 15th century or something. That told me everything I needed to know about the whole situation. I remember one of the developers at Paradox said that the optimal solution for depicting the Balkans according to every's wishes, would be to make the entire region into Wastelands, meaning that players would not be able to see or interact with the region.
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Jan 30, 2015 00:48
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Friendly Tumour posted:I've been wondering about how these sorts of things happen for a long while. It's like, after the fall of communism and after the radical left movement in the West fell apart, the ideology underwent a really weird nationalist/far-right metamorphosis and they ended up adopting a lot of the ideas of their supposedly hated fascist enemies. And yet, another strain of the same ideology adopted the Palestinian struggle and various anti-zionist stances. I wish I understood it how this sort of thing is possible, it seems so terribly curious in a twisted sort of way. The only person I've come across who comes close to addressing it is Adam Curtis, but his explanations seem to be missing something imo No fascists were adopting anti-capitalist terminology since before WW1. See corporatism and the Catholic Church's official stance on labor stuff. The key here is that the 'left' is not really a coherent thing, a much better description is anti-capitalist or anti-liberal democracy. Marxism as a movement imploding is what happened in the 60s and 70s, then the USSR collapsing put the final nail in its coffin. But Marxists were never the only anti-capitalists around, just the most successful in the mid-20th century And no orthodox Marxism was very big in the Israel/Palestine struggle. Actually the nature of that conflict for its first 30 or 40 years was that of USA vs USSR proxy war. The Arab states were post-colonial and a key tenant of Marxism is opposition to colonialism, Israel then played the role of a neo-imperialist state subjugating the native Arabs. Which in a certain sense is true, in that it was originally Arab territory, and it was chosen as a proxy by the USA in opposition to the Communist-backed socialists in Iraq, Egypt, and Syria. Remember when Egypt nationalized the Suez Canal (previously it was owned by British corporations) Britain and France responded by invading Egypt with Israeli backing, only stepping down when the USSR backed them up. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suez_Crisis So no, there is nothing weird going on here at all. Anti-imperialists / pro third worlders have mostly always backed the Palestinians, far right groups have always been leery of financial capitalism. icantfindaname fucked around with this message at 01:00 on Jan 30, 2015 |
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Jan 30, 2015 00:53
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