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I'm seriously racking my brain to envision even a ridiculous hypothetical scenario in which those weapons would save officer/civilian lives.
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Jan 30, 2015 21:12
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Doctor Butts posted:Also, judging by almost all of the terrorist attacks I've ever heard of, vehicle mounted guns are loving worthless unless NYPD seriously loving thinks that they're going to be in a sustained conflict for hours on end. And if that's the case, it's not going to do you any good. They plan to shoot down any more planes should an attack come. Like that'll work. In the mean time, threaten protesters.
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Jan 30, 2015 21:12
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I'm reminded of that line from "The Pentagon Wars," "If you go out there with a huge gun on the turret, the enemy is going to unload everything they have at it. You want me to put a big sign on it saying 'I'm a troop transport, not a tank, please don't shoot at me?' ". The police rolling a tank into a non-violent protest is going to turn it violent really quickly I'd think.
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Jan 30, 2015 21:13
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Radbot posted:I'm seriously racking my brain to envision even a ridiculous hypothetical scenario in which those weapons would save officer/civilian lives. Soviet Paratroopers.
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Jan 30, 2015 21:14
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Yeah those are going to be really good at killing bystanders and nothing else. This SRG sounds like those paramilitary police units in Brazil that are notoriously corrupt and heavily armed. There's just no possible way this will end well if you are comparing terrorists with protesters and advocating for heavier arms.
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Jan 30, 2015 21:14
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Radbot posted:I'm seriously racking my brain to envision even a ridiculous hypothetical scenario in which those weapons would save officer/civilian lives. Chitauri invasion.
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Jan 30, 2015 21:14
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Gravel Gravy posted:Seriously. All it will take is the police bring in these things, some guy starts taking pot shots from a rooftop, police mow down protesters in response. Congratulations on your Boston Massacre reenactment! Except this will be a lot more than a crowd of angry rioters screaming, threatening and hurling rocks at a pair of terrified privates on gate duty. The Boston Massacre was almost entirely fabricated and blown out of proportion by the New England newspapers to generate a Causus Belli. It was really more of "terrified gate guard would really like the people to go away and stop throwing rocks" than "evil Redcoats march down the street, slaughtering shopkeepers, women and children left and right." Turns out America was pretty much founded on utter bullshit and lies.  Anyways, yeah, the whole "show up armed and ready to gun down protestors" is exactly the wrong response and it seems every big city is taking it these days. Showing up to the protests with just some cops in uniforms makes them just part of the terrain. The protestors won't exactly like the police but they understand that the police are there in their roles as peace officers to make sure everything's safe. Showing up in full combat gear, waving guns at protestors, etc. means you're going to make the protestors angry by threatening them and making it very clear that their demands aren't even being considered. In return the protestors get angrier and angrier until you get potshots from the roof.
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Jan 30, 2015 21:16
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Joementum posted:Quote of the day, "[I'm] sad for my kids, my grandkids, and my country. I leave for Israel tomorrow. I may not come back.” ~ Romney advisor Ron Kaufman. 
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Jan 30, 2015 21:18
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Radbot posted:I'm seriously racking my brain to envision even a ridiculous hypothetical scenario in which those weapons would save officer/civilian lives. I don't think that's the concern here
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Jan 30, 2015 21:19
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It is also pretty ironic that police are responding to protests decrying the militarization of police by showing up even more militarized. "Oh you don't like that we show up looking like paramilitary stormtroopers? Well I bet you won't be saying that with a TANK ROLLING OVER YOUR FACE"
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Jan 30, 2015 21:19
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Stereotype posted:It is also pretty ironic that police are responding to protests decrying the militarization of police by showing up even more militarized. It's the cop equivalent of "YOUR STRUGGLING ONLY MAKES MY DICK HARDER"
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Jan 30, 2015 21:20
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Can you imagine what would happen if a police riot line opened fire into a crowd of protesters in the good old USA in the era of everyone having a video camera on them at all times?
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Jan 30, 2015 21:22
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Doctor Butts posted:Also, judging by almost all of the terrorist attacks I've ever heard of, vehicle mounted guns are loving worthless unless NYPD seriously loving thinks that they're going to be in a sustained conflict for hours on end. And if that's the case, it's not going to do you any good. I think they want this poo poo because they're expecting more ambush-style attacks on cops in the future, like with Eric Frein. All the attacks and hatred people have of cops now probably has them spooked. So they probably want this in case of random guys deciding to shoot up cops or blow them up with IEDs or something. Or groups of attackers like with Charlie Hebdo. And they get to crack down on big OWS-style protests as a bonus.
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Jan 30, 2015 21:24
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zoux posted:Can you imagine what would happen if a police riot line opened fire into a crowd of protesters in the good old USA in the era of everyone having a video camera on them at all times? Of course I can. A bunch of people will get upset about it, but then they'll be shouted down by assholes who blame the protesters for not following the law. Sure, you'll have a fuckton of video showing people getting gunned down, but the same assholes above will do the same loving bullshit they did with the Rodney King beating video "Well, what happened before this that provoked the cops, I think we should look into that instead".
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Jan 30, 2015 21:24
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I can hear the defenses already. Sorry zoux, but plenty of Americans are bootlicks who would be perfectly willing to put up with that.
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Jan 30, 2015 21:25
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No I think that would be beyond the pale for pretty much everyone guys.
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Jan 30, 2015 21:25
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Kenzie posted:I think they want this poo poo because they're expecting more ambush-style attacks on cops in the future, like with Eric Frein. This poo poo would do nothing to protect them against that type of attack unless this became the new exclusive patrol vehical.
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Jan 30, 2015 21:25
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I'm not quite cynical enough to think that poo poo would fly at least not right now. It's easier to put a spin on one black guy being killed because he "had a record/came at me like a demon/reached for a donut that we thought was a gun..." than it would be to mow down college aged kids. Enough time in my life to find out how wrong I am though. Edit: Further the kind of people that would defend the cop casually strolling along while pepper-spraying people likely have an easier time doing that because they've never been pepper sprayed. Everybody has a pretty good idea of what it would feel like to be shot or dead though. Gin and Juche fucked around with this message at 21:31 on Jan 30, 2015 |
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Jan 30, 2015 21:28
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zoux posted:No I think that would be beyond the pale for pretty much everyone guys. If its not being almost universally thought of as a bad idea, I'm not so sure. Sure, it could be chicken little poo poo on my part, but... gently caress dude... vehicle mounted machine guns at protests in the United States of America.
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Jan 30, 2015 21:30
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Radbot posted:I'm seriously racking my brain to envision even a ridiculous hypothetical scenario in which those weapons would save officer/civilian lives. There isn't one. As far as I know a vehicle mounted heavy machine gun is only good for laying down cover fire for advancing infantry or duking it out with other forces that also have vehicle-mounted heavy machine guns. Either scenario taking place in an ultra-urbanized area like NYC would result in tons of civilian casualties and would be completely implausible to begin with. So it's either for that or for pointing at protesters to make them go away. Which is more likely?
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Jan 30, 2015 21:30
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zoux posted:No I think that would be beyond the pale for pretty much everyone guys. 58% of the country blamed the students for the Kent State Massacre http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=kn0yAAAAIBAJ&sjid=-bUFAAAAIBAJ&pg=862,4936664&dq=kent-state&hl=en
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Jan 30, 2015 21:35
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Rhesus Pieces posted:There isn't one. As far as I know a vehicle mounted heavy machine gun is only good for laying down cover fire for advancing infantry or duking it out with other forces that also have vehicle-mounted heavy machine guns. Either scenario taking place in an ultra-urbanized area like NYC would result in tons of civilian casualties and would be completely implausible to begin with. they are also quite useful when your trench is facing an oncoming enemy infantry attack, and the enemy has not invented tanks or airplanes yet
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Jan 30, 2015 21:37
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Ironically, this will lead to people looking into buying rpgs/anti-tank weapons, which will be supplied by terrorists or those with ties to terrorist organizations so the cops win the rhetorical battle any way you slice it.
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Jan 30, 2015 21:40
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Stereotype posted:58% of the country blamed the students for the Kent State Massacre http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=kn0yAAAAIBAJ&sjid=-bUFAAAAIBAJ&pg=862,4936664&dq=kent-state&hl=en Was that poo poo on video tape?
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Jan 30, 2015 21:41
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Munkeymon posted:Texas Miracallllllllll Best post of 2015 so far.
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Jan 30, 2015 21:41
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LorneReams posted:This poo poo would do nothing to protect them against that type of attack unless this became the new exclusive patrol vehical. Sure it could. It's supposed to be a rapid response unit. So if someone starts taking down cops, you can bring up heavy firepower very quickly to help deal with it instead of getting pinned down. Not that I support what they're doing, but I think that's why they're doing it at least.
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Jan 30, 2015 21:42
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zoux posted:Was that poo poo on video tape?  It won the Pulitzer Prize
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Jan 30, 2015 21:43
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zoux posted:Was that poo poo on video tape?
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Jan 30, 2015 21:44
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Remember how different the public reaction to the Mike Brown and Eric Gardner outcomes were? What was the difference there?
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Jan 30, 2015 21:49
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Kenzie posted:Sure it could. It's supposed to be a rapid response unit. So if someone starts taking down cops, you can bring up heavy firepower very quickly to help deal with it instead of getting pinned down. Yeah, if this was in response to something major where cops were getting mowed down or were totally underequipped for something like the N. Hollywood shootout that lead to cops getting AR-15's I could understand it, but it's literally them responding to feeling threatened about public outcry with regards to their militarization and treatment of minorities with becoming the most militarized police force in the country. Jury's still out on how they treat minorities since they're basically on a paid strike right now and coincidentally they aren't harassing them... but the next time a riot breaks out in the Bronx or Washington Heights I fully expect minorities to get mowed down wholesale since you don't put on a condom unless you intend to gently caress.
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Jan 30, 2015 21:53
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zoux posted:No I think that would be beyond the pale for pretty much everyone guys. Depends on how pale the guys are.
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Jan 30, 2015 21:54
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zoux posted:No I think that would be beyond the pale for pretty much everyone guys. Just like a dude getting choked to death for reasons caused such a public outrage that the officers involved were held accountable for what was obviously murder?
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Jan 30, 2015 21:58
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site posted:Ironically, this will lead to people looking into buying rpgs/anti-tank weapons, which will be supplied by terrorists or those with ties to terrorist organizations so the cops win the rhetorical battle any way you slice it. This is actually similar in my mind to how the overreach by the government and State Sec has spurried a huge leap/wave in encryption related innovations for average consumers just because they are concerned about the government spying on them, technology that is then in turn easily acquired and modified by the terrorists State Sec intended to catch, thus ironically their very efforts have resulted in them strengthening their targets ability to evade.
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Jan 30, 2015 21:58
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zoux posted:Can you imagine what would happen if a police riot line opened fire into a crowd of protesters in the good old USA in the era of everyone having a video camera on them at all times? You need to specify 'with live rounds' because otherwise I watched it happen live in Oakland several times over the course of Occupy and nobody gave a poo poo, even when it put a OORAH MARINE in critical condition.
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Jan 30, 2015 21:58
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Unzip and Attack posted:Just like a dude getting choked to death for reasons caused such a public outrage that the officers involved were held accountable for what was obviously murder? It did cause a public outrage 
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Jan 30, 2015 21:59
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zoux posted:It did cause a public outrage You shortened my sentence which changes its meaning quite a lot.
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Jan 30, 2015 22:00
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zoux posted:It did cause a public outrage And the punishment for the offending officer was?
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Jan 30, 2015 22:01
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The outrage was over the lack of punishment. Actually I'm going to out cynical you all, I think that the police could MURDER A BABY on LIVE TELEVISION and the loving IDIOT FUCKER AMERICAN PEOPLE would go, and imagine I'm doing the retard voice here "HMMMRRRGGG WHERES MY CSI AND MY TV SHOWS".
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Jan 30, 2015 22:02
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What we're saying is that yeah, people would get mad if officers gunned down a bunch of protesters, but the actual outcome would be very similar to the multiple other on-camera murders committed by cops recently. The "outrage" wouldn't impact the outcome in terms of holding those responsible for the unnecessary use of deadly force responsible. E: oh nevermind you're just trolling. Nothing else to see here I guess. Unzip and Attack fucked around with this message at 22:06 on Jan 30, 2015 |
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Jan 30, 2015 22:04
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zoux posted:The outrage was over the lack of punishment. And now after seeing a cop get off scot-free for what was the recorded death of an innocent man in a situation entirely created by the NYPD officers' actions that could have been avoided...what makes you think there isn't a large chunk of the American Right who wouldn't start victim blaming through a facade of crocodile tears if a bunch of college kids or minorities get gunned down during a protest? Is it a belief in basic human decency? It is, isn't it? I suggest you go read the Freep thread if you don't already and disabuse yourself of that notion.
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Jan 30, 2015 22:06
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