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Yeah, I played the game on Insanity basically all the time, but there's really no reason too. It makes the first few levels feel completely luck based because you can get one shot out of nowhere but still doesn't make the latter half of the game significantly more challenging.
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Jan 31, 2015 19:06
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princecoo posted:This is a weird one, but the little thing dragging Fable III down for me is the fact it puts me to sleep. I still don't understand the thought process behind Fable 3. Fable is a game series whose biggest gimmick was having your character change and grow based on how you played and in 3 they got rid of that entirely and instead just used a single universal experience point and locked all your abilities behind the storyline progression.
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Jan 31, 2015 19:14
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Strategic Tea posted:I really never though Ashley was a space racist, though there's some lovely writing with the dog comparaison. I don't see a problem in a soldier objecting when a space somali warlord, a foreign ship technician, a guy we were at war with ten years ago and the daughter of a major politician are being allowed to poke around a top secret cutting edge warship In the dog comparison she was saying that humans/humanity was the dogs. She was saying that in a pinch, a nation/government/civilization will look after its own ahead of other groups. Cynical yes, but not racially motivated. Challenging this belief is a big part of the series, especially ME3 where, oops, Ashley was right and everyone just hunkers down and tries to protect their own interests, but you/Shepard have to get them to look at the big picture and unite inclusively. The real racist line was the first time you go to the citadel and she can't tell the sentient aliens apart from the animals.
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Jan 31, 2015 19:18
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A thing dragging down ME3: they turned Ashley's model from the reasonable ME1 and ME2 one to a horrible realdoll like thing in ME3. 
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Jan 31, 2015 19:24
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For comparison: (ME1)  (ME3) She always had the big ol anime eyes but they did do some weird reshaping of her face in ME3 and I'm not sure why.  She does look a bit creepy now.
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Jan 31, 2015 19:32
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I'm playing Dishonored, I'm guessing a third of the way through. Playing nonlethally is weird. There are nonlethal options for "assassination" targets, and mechanical benefits too. But everyone is some combination of vicious, conniving, or an outlaw. Corvo, the main character, is a blank slate protagonist of generically high station and there's nothing to suggest he'd be any different. I like the flexibility of playing nonlethally but it doesn't make sense in the game's setting.
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Jan 31, 2015 19:45
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It makes more sense that they stick out so much when you consider that there initially weren't any non-lethal options for the main baddies until playtesters complained, because peoples' poor sensibilities can't handle playing a video game where you are not the supreme good guy forever.
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Jan 31, 2015 19:47
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Hobo By Design posted:I'm playing Dishonored, I'm guessing a third of the way through. Playing nonlethally is weird. There are nonlethal options for "assassination" targets, and mechanical benefits too. But everyone is some combination of vicious, conniving, or an outlaw. Corvo, the main character, is a blank slate protagonist of generically high station and there's nothing to suggest he'd be any different. I like the flexibility of playing nonlethally but it doesn't make sense in the game's setting. Why doesn't it make sense? Corvo can be either good or bad. I agree moral choice systems are awful, but I don't think a "pure" run is narratively dissonant.
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Jan 31, 2015 19:50
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Non-lethal fates are arguably far, far worse than death for the primary targets as well.
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Jan 31, 2015 19:51
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CJacobs posted:It makes more sense that they stick out so much when you consider that there initially weren't any non-lethal options for the main baddies until playtesters complained, because peoples' poor sensibilities can't handle playing a video game where you are not the supreme good guy forever. It's not always about being the good guy. In other stealth games, the 'nonlethal' playthrough is generally harder, so some people might consider it 'sloppy' to kill, since if you were good at the game you could just do it non-lethally - heck, some protagonists pretty much say as much (particularly pre-4 Thief games) Heck, people complained about no non-lethal option in Deus Ex too - but in that case the producers didn't change anything.
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Jan 31, 2015 19:53
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aerion111 posted:It's not always about being the good guy. He has no idea what he's talking about, developers added non-lethal options because it was a feature that popped up a lot when people talked about the game online and somehow he twisted that into some  about casuals ruining gaming.
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Jan 31, 2015 19:58
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A stealth run is always harder, though I'm biased because I much rather them. I think it's justifiable that Corvo wouldn't murder all the guards as they're just following orders and he probably knows a lot of them. As for primary targets the 'non-lethal' method is often far crueler than death. It also means the public aren't as freaked out by politicians stepping down or disappearing as they would be if all the Lords had been ripped apart by an assassin. Making it easier for Emily to resume the throne later.
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Jan 31, 2015 19:59
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ME2 and 3 put me off because everything looks too drat shiny. Everything from the people to the rocks look like someone carefully rubbed them down with Vaseline right before I arrived.
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Jan 31, 2015 19:59
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CJacobs posted:It makes more sense that they stick out so much when you consider that there initially weren't any non-lethal options for the main baddies until playtesters complained, because peoples' poor sensibilities can't handle playing a video game where you are not the supreme good guy forever. OR it would be really dumb that a man who decides that murder isn't actually the answer here is suddenly forced to murder. Because somehow video game devs are literally never wrong and playtesting isn't asking people how your game can be better, it's obviously to cater to manchildren 
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Jan 31, 2015 20:00
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Thing bringing down Dishonored: the story. With a game that's got such a creative setting and off-the-wall gameplay, I assumed that the story would be equally as smart. And for most of the runtime of the game, the story is more or less an excuse plot to give Corvo interesting places to sneak into and evil people to kill, which in my book is a smart story: if a game doesn't want to commit to having a meaningful story, then it's smarter to just completely dial it back. But then at the 80% point, the game takes a lurching left turn into clicheland with the obligatory betrayal twist, which is never set up and makes no sense for the characters involved. I also thought it was pretty loving dumb that, apparently, it's just an open secret that Corvo is the father of Emily. I can't see any political liabilities in the heir to the throne being a bastard with no officially known father, especially not in a system where the monarch appears to have real power.
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Jan 31, 2015 20:02
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Xythe posted:OR it would be really dumb that a man who decides that murder isn't actually the answer here is suddenly forced to murder. Because somehow video game devs are literally never wrong and playtesting isn't asking people how your game can be better, it's obviously to cater to manchildren I laugh every time I remember that Corvo's got 18 lethal options and 2 non-lethal ones when it comes to combat CJacobs has a new favorite as of 20:07 on Jan 31, 2015 |
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Jan 31, 2015 20:03
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CJacobs posted:I laugh every time I remember that Corvo's got 18 lethal options and 2 non-lethal ones when it comes to combat It's the same in every game because there are so many ways to kill someone but very few ways other than darts to knock them out. Not that unusual, hth
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Jan 31, 2015 20:04
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DStecks posted:But then at the 80% point, the game takes a lurching left turn into clicheland with the obligatory betrayal twist, which is never set up and makes no sense for the characters involved. Actually, there is some small bit of foreshadowing for that, though you have to go out of your way to look for it I believe, and it's still a cliche.
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Jan 31, 2015 20:05
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EmmyOk posted:It's the same in every game because there are so many ways to kill someone but very few ways other than darts to knock them out. Not that unusual, hth The game is very obviously balanced around you killing lots of people because they give you way more tools to do it. You can be stealthy but also lethal and that's what they expect you to do; it's the reason he has an unlockable skill that makes bodies disintegrate on death. The guy was the personal protector of the empress, I really doubt he's got a problem killing people in his way especially now that he has been Dishonored™. I'm glad that they put in non-lethal options for the major bad guys but the tranquilizers/choking/etc were always there. It's nice that they put in the option for people to play how they want to play it but there is no denying that the developers had a playstyle in mind when they were creating the game and its mechanics.
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Jan 31, 2015 20:08
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WickedHate posted:Actually, there is some small bit of foreshadowing for that, though you have to go out of your way to look for it I believe, and it's still a cliche. I mean, in retrospect, it kinda works for the setting if you just assume that everyone in the upper echelons of society is morally bankrupt, but it just doesn't gel with how Havelock and Pendleton are portrayed before that. But yeah, regardless, it's just cliche as gently caress. At this point I've just conditioned myself to expect a betrayal twist if the game doesn't seem to be setting up one person as the obvious main villain.
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Jan 31, 2015 20:11
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CJacobs posted:The game is very obviously balanced around you killing lots of people because they give you way more tools to do it. You can be stealthy but also lethal and that's what they expect you to do; it's the reason he has an unlockable skill that makes bodies disintegrate on death. The guy was the personal protector of the empress, I really doubt he's got a problem killing people in his way especially now that he has been Dishonored™. I'm glad that they put in non-lethal options for the major bad guys but the tranquilizers/choking/etc were always there. It's nice that they put in the option for people to play how they want to play it but there is no denying that the developers had a playstyle in mind when they were creating the game and its mechanics. My point is that most games that focus on stealth tend to have a deluge of murder skills and few nonlethal ones, the MGS games and the new Deus Ex for example. You don't need as many non-lethal skills because for the most part you'll be avoiding people altogether, and it's supposed to be "the hard but honest" path in most games.
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Jan 31, 2015 20:16
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Those games don't suffer for it, Dishonored does. But it's only if you decide to play it that way. 
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Jan 31, 2015 20:20
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CJacobs posted:Those games don't suffer for it, Dishonored does. But it's only if you decide to play it that way. I don't see how? I played it on the hardest mode for a no kill never been seen run and found it challenging but no more than you'd expect. I don't think it negatively affects general gameplay, and I think it is perfectly balanced for no kill runs. Narratively it's quite easily justifiable too.
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Jan 31, 2015 20:23
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What I found most disappointing about Dishonored is that I did play that way the first time through and the good ending was so tonally dissonant with the rest of the game that it made me actually sad that I had played it that way instead of going the lethal route. The story doesn't even go to the most minimal attempts to support the non-lethal playstyle; if you do remove one of the major players non-lethally, the game still treats them as if you killed them and the characters react as such except for one or two special cases where you get a note or a dialogue afterward thanking you for it. Dishonored is still a very good game, don't get me wrong, but the non-lethal stuff was pretty half-assed outside of the part where you actually do the thing.
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Jan 31, 2015 20:27
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Horrible Smutbeast posted:Felt the same way about FFXIV. There's a group you join and the entire storyline is basically following around a woman who's a goddamn fashion disaster and her crew of merry gently caress ups through the world fixing everyone else's problems. They may call you the hero of light but every single cutscene is based around every other character getting story progression while yours makes a dumb face in the background. When I ask my friends who have done all the new content the storylines are usually explained "And then some poo poo happened and these two dudes probably touched dicks." ffxi was similarish. Each area / expansion has its own storyline and you are there helping the npcs but they still frame it in a way that w/o you poo poo would of been mega hosed and they even have special instances where you go to the dark vanadiel and fight in a world where the hero of the light ( you) didn't go do missions and jerked off camping king behemoth for a tongue so you can get a black belt. Spoiler alert they lost and beastmen took over the world. Later they semi retconed it to it being a timeline where you failed in wings of the goddess expansion. I thought ffxi handled its storyline incredibly well and I'm surprised they don't do it the same in xiv. I assume they do but people don't give a gently caress and the touched dicks comes about because it happened in xi to. 
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Jan 31, 2015 20:31
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EmmyOk posted:A stealth run is always harder, though I'm biased because I much rather them. I think it's justifiable that Corvo wouldn't murder all the guards as they're just following orders and he probably knows a lot of them. As for primary targets the 'non-lethal' method is often far crueler than death. It also means the public aren't as freaked out by politicians stepping down or disappearing as they would be if all the Lords had been ripped apart by an assassin. Making it easier for Emily to resume the throne later. That's how I felt about it when I played. Like, just stabbing the inquisitor is too easy. Branding him turns his life into a nightmare which is much more fun.
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Jan 31, 2015 20:45
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Lotish posted:That's how I felt about it when I played. Like, just stabbing the inquisitor is too easy. Branding him turns his life into a nightmare which is much more fun. Pretty much. I'm not as big of a fan of the expanded non-lethal tool set coming in Dishonored 2, but I would love if the non-lethal methods are still as horrific as they were in the first game. It added a new level of hosed up normally reserved for doing what jesus would do option, making it an awesome change of pace.
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Jan 31, 2015 21:11
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MrJacobs posted:Pretty much. I'm not as big of a fan of the expanded non-lethal tool set coming in Dishonored 2, but I would love if the non-lethal methods are still as horrific as they were in the first game. It added a new level of hosed up normally reserved for doing what jesus would do option, making it an awesome change of pace. Stuff for DS2 has been released? I hope they have not made non-lethal runs too easy
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Jan 31, 2015 21:23
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Did the choke dust in Knife of Dunwall/Brigmore Witches knock guards out, or was it just a distraction?
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Jan 31, 2015 21:52
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Daktar posted:Did the choke dust in Knife of Dunwall/Brigmore Witches knock guards out, or was it just a distraction? I want to say it was a distraction since they would be coughing and hacking their heads off. EmmyOk posted:Stuff for DS2 has been released? I hope they have not made non-lethal runs too easy Nothing as far as I know. I just liked that the non-lethal playthrough meant having a much more limited tool set making the game more challenging and slightly less fun (combat system was good) but totally worth an attempt due to how it changes your approach to the missions. I fear that expanding the non-lethal routes would take some of that away by making it trivial to approach missions the exact same way, just using different weapons that mostly have the same function except one makes a guy "sleep" instead of explode.
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Jan 31, 2015 22:11
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EmmyOk posted:Why doesn't it make sense? Corvo can be either good or bad. I agree moral choice systems are awful, but I don't think a "pure" run is narratively dissonant. Killing isn't bad? At least, not so far (I haven't beaten it.) Nonlethal does make sense if you assume Corvo is civically-minded about public health even while narrowly avoiding death, tripwires, and plague rats. He probably recycles and listens to NPR, too  I'm going to ask for spoilers: it's clear the "good guys" are gonna be bad guys (they are conspirators wanting to assume power and Corvo is their dirty right hand man), what happens if I try to kill them early?
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Jan 31, 2015 22:14
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Hobo By Design posted:Killing isn't bad? At least, not so far (I haven't beaten it.) Nonlethal does make sense if you assume Corvo is civically-minded about public health even while narrowly avoiding death, tripwires, and plague rats. He probably recycles and listens to NPR, too You can't kill them early, you get a game over if you try. And yeah the chaos thing isn't a good evil meter, it's basically a filth and disease meter. Leaving corpses lying around means more rats which means more plague. That's all it's measuring.
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Jan 31, 2015 22:29
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Slime posted:You can't kill them early, you get a game over if you try. And yeah the chaos thing isn't a good evil meter, it's basically a filth and disease meter. Leaving corpses lying around means more rats which means more plague. That's all it's measuring. Except it still goes up if you have the dust ability or kill guys using the pylons.
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Feb 1, 2015 00:38
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The story makes it clear that if you kill everyone you get the "bad ending", moral choice systems ruin games
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Feb 1, 2015 00:44
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EmmyOk posted:The story makes it clear that if you kill everyone you get the "bad ending", moral choice systems ruin games Game Devs should troll players by putting in BAD END at the end of linear games. Uncharted 3 ends and everyone rides off into the sky, all alive and healthy and then BAD ENDING- credits.
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Feb 1, 2015 00:49
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RareAcumen posted:Game Devs should troll players by putting in BAD END at the end of linear games. Uncharted 3 ends and everyone rides off into the sky, all alive and healthy and then BAD ENDING- credits.
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Feb 1, 2015 00:57
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muscles like this? posted:Except it still goes up if you have the dust ability or kill guys using the pylons. The idea is that people(mostly guards) are dying left and right to this teleporting rear end in a top hat with a sword. Less guards, less patroling, more crime and less culling of weepers thus more plague.
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Feb 1, 2015 02:27
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Woops wrong thread
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Feb 1, 2015 02:30
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RareAcumen posted:Game Devs should troll players by putting in BAD END at the end of linear games. Uncharted 3 ends and everyone rides off into the sky, all alive and healthy and then BAD ENDING- credits. I know of one game that does this though I forget the name. True end: everybody dies because a prophecy predicted the end of the world and it came true. The "bad end" is the best outcome for everyone since the main character is a sort of villain.
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Feb 1, 2015 02:40
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Mokinokaro posted:I know of one game that does this though I forget the name. Wasn't basically every single one of the many endings in Drakengard the "bad end"?
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