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Oliver didn't die, he was just near death. He survived the stabbing and the fall long enough for Maseo to get to him and treat his wounds.
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Jan 31, 2015 14:57
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No no no, he was only mostly dead. There's a big difference between mostly dead and all dead. Mostly dead is slightly alive.
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Jan 31, 2015 15:00
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I'm not sure which theory is worse: That Ras did kill him but he came back with magic herbs, or that Ras is such a poo poo assassin that he didn't kill him when he intended too(or intentionally stabbed him there lol) and he survived the fall only to come back with magic tea. Arrow writers, you have failed this show.
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Jan 31, 2015 15:01
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Maybe the Mysterious Tea will end up linked to the alpha/omega stuff in the Hong Kong flash backs
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Jan 31, 2015 15:36
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I say we split the difference: Ollie was supposed to survive the fall, only to dunked in the Pit to heal be and reborn as al-Rāmi or something. Thing is, Maseo wasn't the one who was supposed to recover him.
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Jan 31, 2015 15:40
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DoctorWhat posted:No no no, he was only mostly dead. There's a big difference between mostly dead and all dead. Mostly dead is slightly alive. So, Ollie was bluffing?
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Jan 31, 2015 16:13
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Rhyno posted:So, Ollie was bluffing? It's possible, Rhyno, he might have been bluffing. It's conceivable that he was only lying there because he lacked the strength to stand. But, then again... perhaps he had the strength after all.
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Jan 31, 2015 16:19
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DoctorWhat posted:It's possible, Rhyno, he might have been bluffing. It's conceivable that he was only lying there because he lacked the strength to stand. But, then again... perhaps he had the strength after all. Oh. My. God. Barrowman as Humperdinck. Imagine the glory of an Arrow cast remake of TPB.
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Jan 31, 2015 16:30
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Theres a new clip on the arrow facebook group and the last few seconds has a shot where barrowman leans back in his chair but it manages to convey 'holy poo poo its on' So well
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Jan 31, 2015 16:31
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I've been assuming that what we're seeing going on w/ Oliver's death isn't a parallel timeline w/ the gang's day to day activities.
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Jan 31, 2015 17:00
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Parallel timeline? That's the dumbest suggestion I've heard since Shannon was stabbed.
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Jan 31, 2015 17:16
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(Spoilers, Obviously) Ohhhhhh poo poo.
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Jan 31, 2015 17:34
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GreenNight posted:Parallel timeline? That's the dumbest suggestion I've heard since Shannon was stabbed. He just meant that things aren't happening at the same time where Oliver is as in Starling. Usually the show keeps all present day stuff happening concurrently, and usually with real time, but it's all a bit muddy right now.
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Jan 31, 2015 17:38
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I think it's happening at the same time. Arrow is out of sync with the flash now though, since only a few days passed after the finally while with flash it was weeks.
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Jan 31, 2015 17:39
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greatn posted:I think it's happening at the same time. Arrow is out of sync with the flash now though, since only a few days passed after the finally while with flash it was weeks. Did they explicitly say a few weeks have passed by in Flash?
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Jan 31, 2015 17:48
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Scyantific posted:Did they explicitly say a few weeks have passed by in Flash? Yeah in pretty sure they did.
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Jan 31, 2015 19:07
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Apparently a lot of people have been sending Stephen Amell that video:Stephen Amell posted:Everyone can stop sending me the video of that Danish archer. Is it impressive? Sure. Would he be as accurate if I punched him really hard in the mouth. I say no. 
Phylodox fucked around with this message at 20:52 on Jan 31, 2015 |
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Jan 31, 2015 20:50
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Phylodox posted:Apparently a lot of people have been sending Stephen Amell that video: That is great
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Jan 31, 2015 20:58
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Really, really annoyed at how they pussied out of Oliver dying. Getting stabbed in the heart (seemingly retconned to below the chest) and kicked off a cliff (specifically then shown to be a long enough fall to break his bones and probably turn him into mush). But no, it's just a minor stab wound and a bit of rest and medication and he's fine in a matter of weeks (?). Blech. I was worried about how they might handle lazarus pits, but that would've been a lot better, especially considering they kinda set them up with Ra's's age line. And every scene with Laurel is STILL the worst. Felicity convincing her to keep vigilante-ing was really bad - undoing the one good, sensible decision she made. Her lies to her father and her magical dead-sister voicebox device are terrible. It's nice that they show her screwing up every now and then (fumbling the landing on the van), but instead of her inevitable and unreasonably quick improvement - honestly, the best thing they could do with that plot right now is have her try to disarm a gunman with her staff and be a little too slow and just get shot. Also doesn't the show usually try and make League henchmen kinda formiddable (remember that first one we encountered who fought Ollie and Sara to a standstill?) and not as easily disposed of as they were by Maseo and his wife? That was WEAK. Finally, a nitpick: people mentioned Roy's line about "I was trained by Ollie and had years on the streets." It was as clumsy as the dialogue can always been on this show. But for some reason it just irks me that they didn't make it something like "I was trained by Ollie and I grew up in the Glades - I've been fighting my whole life." Something that would have related more to the character and the city, and sounded less like someone else writing a biography would say.
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Jan 31, 2015 21:38
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Any Youtube videos of someone doing salmon ladders better than Ollie though?
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Jan 31, 2015 21:38
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It was never in the heart.
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Jan 31, 2015 21:43
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The theory about Ra's intentionally not killing Oliver makes no sense from what we actually saw. Oliver pretty much coughs out blood after being stabbed in the chest. And in addition to that he is thrown off a cliff. That is 3 things right there that would kill you irrevocably. Of course nobody expected the Arrow to die permanently. But what we got is in sharp contrast with the writing/ ideas that led to the cliffhanger before the holidays break.
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Jan 31, 2015 22:06
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VagueRant posted:Really, really annoyed at how they pussied out of Oliver dying. Getting stabbed in the heart (seemingly retconned to below the chest) and kicked off a cliff (specifically then shown to be a long enough fall to break his bones and probably turn him into mush). But no, it's just a minor stab wound and a bit of rest and medication and he's fine in a matter of weeks (?). Blech. I was worried about how they might handle lazarus pits, but that would've been a lot better, especially considering they kinda set them up with Ra's's age line. Remember the inverse ninja law. One ninja, or at least fewer ninjas than their opponents, is/are a nigh-invincible force. The League assassin was the one outnumbered by Ollie and Sara, therefor he was the formidable one. In the cabin, Maseo and Katana were outnumber 4 to 2, so they were the badass ones. In the fight in the church or whatever in season 2 with Ollie, Sara, and Lance they were evenly matched so it was a pitched and tense fight. AbstractNapper posted:The theory about Ra's intentionally not killing Oliver makes no sense from what we actually saw. Eh, we don't actually know how they revived him yet. I have to believe he actually was dead when they found him as they used the words "bring you back to life" rather dramatically. All I really think it needs is something more than "magic herbs" again or "you actually weren't quite dead." Kibayasu fucked around with this message at 22:09 on Jan 31, 2015 |
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Jan 31, 2015 22:07
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Ra's was clearly trying to kill Oliver, and he would've suceeded if Maseo hadn't grabbed Oliver and brought him in for emergency first aid. A person can survive a lot of trauma if they recieve urgent and medical care. A person can also bleed out and die from an otherwise minor injury without care. The duel was in a secret location known only to the LoA, Ra's didnt think one of his men would betray him and grab the bleeding out body of his opponent and fix him up. If Maseo hadnt intereferred Oliver would be dead, Ra's just didnt anticipate that. It doesn't need to be any more complicated than that, and it probably isn't.
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Jan 31, 2015 22:38
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The big reveal is that Ra's hasn't ever actually killed anyone, the League just keeps covering up and making him think he has.
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Jan 31, 2015 22:44
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I'm not impressed that Ras killed his first man at age seven. Davy Crockett shot him a bar when he was only three.
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Jan 31, 2015 22:47
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Phylodox posted:The big reveal is that Ra's hasn't ever actually killed anyone, the League just keeps covering up and making him think he has. Ra is senile and cannot kill anymore and his underlings have been covering up for him all along!
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Jan 31, 2015 22:48
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Man, Arrow is one of my favorite shows I've ever watched, but folks' ability to bend over backwards trying to defend the occasional crap it tosses at us is something else. Both with this and the whole Hong Kong Waller thing. Like...yes, you're all correct, of course the resurrection would not be dumb if the exact specific elements that make it dumb were not actually the case and are all bait-and-switches of some sort, somehow. But the whole reason that people think it's dumb is because the show is not giving that impression at all, it's giving the impression that the current dumb elements are being played straight. And the more it does that, the more like a left-field cop-out it's going to feel if the show ever does make it a bait-and-switch, and Arrow's plotting has never been so airtight that we can comfortably assume that every dumb thing it writes is going to end up being a fakeout anyway. Like, I really hope the resurrection plot gets better or is made retroactively better, but that's like how I hope that every bad idea the show's ever had gets better or is retconned into something better. Anyway, that said...the next episode looks really awesome and the preview just makes me more excited. 
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Jan 31, 2015 23:27
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BrianWilly posted:Man, Arrow is one of my favorite shows I've ever watched, but folks' ability to bend over backwards trying to defend the occasional crap it tosses at us is something else. Both with this and the whole Hong Kong Waller thing. BrianWilly posted:Like...yes, you're all correct, of course the resurrection would not be dumb if the exact specific elements that make it dumb were not actually the case and are all bait-and-switches of some sort, somehow. But the whole reason that people think it's dumb is because the show is not giving that impression at all, it's giving the impression that the current dumb elements are being played straight. And the more it does that, the more like a left-field cop-out it's going to feel if the show ever does make it a bait-and-switch, and Arrow's plotting has never been so airtight that we can comfortably assume that every dumb thing it writes is going to end up being a fakeout anyway. It's unexplained and pretty unsatisfying, but it's honestly not a huge deal.
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Jan 31, 2015 23:46
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Kibayasu posted:Remember the inverse ninja law. One ninja, or at least fewer ninjas than their opponents, is/are a nigh-invincible force. The League assassin was the one outnumbered by Ollie and Sara, therefor he was the formidable one. In the cabin, Maseo and Katana were outnumber 4 to 2, so they were the badass ones. In the fight in the church or whatever in season 2 with Ollie, Sara, and Lance they were evenly matched so it was a pitched and tense fight. It'll be the pit so that they can have a surprise evil Arrow episode.
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Jan 31, 2015 23:52
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King of Solomon posted:Yeah, I remember that. I specifically called you out on it because you were making that out to be something that it wasn't. I specifically remember you using phrasing along the lines of "Ollie was completely untrained" to justify your absurd position that Waller had no justifiable reason for using Ollie. I remember people back then were trying to fanfic the plot into something better too, like "Maybe she wants an in with the Bratva!" Yeah, well, let me know when that happens.
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Jan 31, 2015 23:59
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BrianWilly posted:Ollie was not trained to be a spy in any way whatsoever, and if you think that he was, you are explicitly ignoring the contents of the show, considering that Waller and Maseo had to train him to accomplish even very rudimentary wetwork like interrogations and tailing targets. The whole reason that the plot was so dumb was because Waller was taking an American celebrity through Assassin Pre-school in the middle of Hong Kong despite the fact that there's absolutely no rational reason for her not to have better prospects than Oliver. He wasn't trained to be a spy specifically, no, you're right. However, this: quote:Waller was taking an American celebrity through Assassin Pre-school in the middle of Hong Kong despite the fact that there's absolutely no rational reason for her not to have better prospects than Oliver. Is where your point falls apart. Through his experiences on the Island, particularly in season 1 where he took down one of Waller's operations, Ollie has shown that he has a lot of potential as an agent. This is particularly convenient for her because as far as the world is concerned, Oliver Queen is dead. If he was just "an American celebrity," then you'd have a point, but he very clearly isn't.
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Feb 1, 2015 00:03
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Kadath posted:Ra's was clearly trying to kill Oliver, and he would've suceeded if Maseo hadn't grabbed Oliver and brought him in for emergency first aid. A person can survive a lot of trauma if they recieve urgent and medical care. A person can also bleed out and die from an otherwise minor injury without care. The issue would be if they aren't messing with the timeline Oliver was lying there for days. Half naked on a mountain after being stabbed in the lung is no way to lie around for days, and the cold isn't actually going to be your friend there. And it's pretty unlikely they messed with the timeline because we have Maseo going back to the League and getting a call from the DJ at the end of the episode. Unless there was something stronger than ginseng and koala balls in that tea they gave him, fucker was dead.
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Feb 1, 2015 00:15
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Rhyno posted:Oh. My. God. Can't be done, that generation that made ugly people like Andre the Giant is gone.
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Feb 1, 2015 00:26
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BrianWilly posted:I remember people back then were trying to fanfic the plot into something better too, like "Maybe she wants an in with the Bratva!" Yeah, well, let me know when that happens. This is still possible - I mean either Waller sends him to Russia or he escapes his ARGUS situation and then... decides to head for russia, presumably for the lulz.
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Feb 1, 2015 00:28
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The first thing the writers probably put on the white board was "League of Assassins: Foe?" After they got that OK'd, #2 was "Ollie fights Ra's, dies in Lazarus pit." A DC exec said that it would read too Jesusy, or count as a go to reset button ("Why don't they just anyone else we kill, ever?"), so they wrote an ep where it's like yeah he was revived, but...YOU KNOW, and focused on Maseo/Katana.
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Feb 1, 2015 00:36
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Scyantific posted:(Spoilers, Obviously) I guess technically this is spoilers, but: Wait so the police COULD arrest Brick but don't because they don't have anything beyond circumstantial evidence? They've got eyewitness testimony (including the Mayor, two Alderman and the Chief of Detectives!) of Brick leading an assault on City Hall, of holding two Aldermen hostage who SAW HIM MURDER A THIRD, as well as CCTV footage of him committing that murder, as well as him calling the Mayor up on the phone and laying out ultimatums AS WELL as him showing up to an arranged meeting witnessed by dozens of cops, the Chief of Detectives, the District Attorney and the Mayor where he outright tells her he's taking over control of the Glades.... and they don't have enough to arrest him? 
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Feb 1, 2015 00:38
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Boogaleeboo posted:The issue would be if they aren't messing with the timeline Oliver was lying there for days. Half naked on a mountain after being stabbed in the lung is no way to lie around for days, and the cold isn't actually going to be your friend there. And it's pretty unlikely they messed with the timeline because we have Maseo going back to the League and getting a call from the DJ at the end of the episode. Unless there was something stronger than ginseng and koala balls in that tea they gave him, fucker was dead. Could just be poor editing and he was actually recuperating in the hut for 3 weeks. Remember we had the shadowy figure stand over his body right at the end of the episode where Ras stabbed him didn't we?
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Feb 1, 2015 00:38
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Jerusalem posted:I guess technically this is spoilers, but: I think the idea is that they didn't have any evidence before that stuff happened. Now he has an army taking over the Glades it's probably pretty hard to arrest him.
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Feb 1, 2015 00:57
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Rocksicles posted:Can't be done, that generation that made ugly people like Andre the Giant is gone. <ahem> 
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Feb 1, 2015 01:28
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