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Spincut posted:Yeah, Adam Koebel is complaining about the BW/Mouse Guard line on Twitter as we speak! Seriously, though, if you want people to give you money, dumping on games that they might actually like isn't going to get them to give you their money.
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Jan 30, 2015 20:12
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I love the system but you need someone who knows how to market. Backed because I already know that the game is great, but I'm worried about you actually making your goals.
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Jan 30, 2015 20:29
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Is this BW-Ghazi over calling it pretentious?
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Jan 30, 2015 20:31
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moths posted:Is this BW-Ghazi over calling it pretentious? Just because it's making fun of a game that's not as popular around here doesn't change the fact that slamming someone else's game to promote yours isn't a good way to get people to pay you.
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Jan 30, 2015 20:45
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But I mean, have you seen BW? "Pretentious" is loving charitable. Limited run, physical only, boutique production written in an impregnable self-indulgent affected style. It's basically the definition of a pretentious RPG. E: but this is all over that one blurb? moths fucked around with this message at 20:51 on Jan 30, 2015 |
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Jan 30, 2015 20:47
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Totally backed. Going back and forth on whether or not I want the hardcopy, but you're the first 4E-alike I've seen go to press and I'm intrigued. Actual constructive criticism:
Zurui fucked around with this message at 22:14 on Jan 30, 2015 |
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Jan 30, 2015 20:52
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moths posted:But I mean, have you seen BW? "Pretentious" is loving charitable. But it doesn't matter if I find it pretentious or not, what matters is how Jim is presenting things to potential backers. The perception of the people he wants as backers matters. And if the pitch involves badmouthing games, that's going to put Jim into the same area as people like GMS or Raggi who spend a lot of time putting down other people as a marketing method.
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Jan 30, 2015 20:53
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I guess I just expected more badmouthing from all the pearl-clutching. "BW is pretentious" is a statement on par with "3.pf is bloated."
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Jan 30, 2015 20:56
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moths posted:I guess I just expected more badmouthing from all the pearl-clutching. "BW is pretentious" is a statement on par with "3.pf is bloated." And yes I realize this probably makes me pretty hypocritical given my post history and mountains of text in the F&F threads.
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Jan 30, 2015 21:00
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It's still a bad way to advertise.
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Jan 30, 2015 21:00
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GrandpaPants posted:Broken Loose, I noticed you had nothing on BGG for your game, not even a page. I think getting some initial hype with some pictures and some information to lead into the KS would be better for you, since instead of spending like 2 weeks building momentum, you open your Kickstarter with some initial hype. This all obviously depends on your ask and whatever stretch goals you have planned, but as, uh, lovable (?) this community is, it definitely doesn't have the audience of those terrible, terrible BGGers whose enthusiasm seems to be inversely proportional to their tastes. BGG has a really pain-in-the-rear end way of handling boardgames with live KS campaigns, largely because I imagine every dude who tries a campaign makes a page and then the game may or may not get funded. I'm not allowed to do anything until the campaign is live and the process by which I have to do things is very specific.
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Jan 30, 2015 21:03
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Evil Mastermind posted:Yes, I own it and like it. On the other hand, it's already got people tweeting about it, and at least one person has tweeted back that it's just the one blurb, and they're going to let the game stand on its own merits. With no disrespect intended toward Luke Crane and Burning Wheel and Mouse Guard, it's not as though they're all that big either. I am not even sure the majority of RPG gamers will have held those books in their hands, let alone played them. Part of marketing is product differentiation, so . . . to me, this is more "hey, somebody's going to be offended or angry at most anything you do." If it escalates, it makes sense to address it in an update.
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Jan 30, 2015 21:06
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That's pretty tame as far as "confrontational" marketing in TTG's goes.Warmachine Prime, Page 5 posted:Warning: Not suitable for wussies!
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Jan 30, 2015 21:22
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That is completely different. No games are called out by name. The tone is a little Mortal Kombat circa 1994, but it is clearly differentiating the product from the competition and indirectly complimenting you for being interested in the product. It's sexist, heteronormative, and outdated, but it's a good example of copy that clearly defines what the game is supposed to do (while indirectly calling out competition.) (I work in marketing.)
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Jan 30, 2015 21:27
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Yeah it's the difference between saying "Drink Coke, it's the best" vs. "Drink Coke, because Pepsi tastes like poo poo."
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Jan 30, 2015 21:30
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quote:BGG has a really pain-in-the-rear end way of handling boardgames with live KS campaigns, largely because I imagine every dude who tries a campaign makes a page and then the game may or may not get funded. I'm not allowed to do anything until the campaign is live and the process by which I have to do things is very specific. That's really bizarre - it's not like they otherwise seem to worry too much about curating. There's tons of terrible game pages there with absolutely no content (though perhaps maybe they're trying to turn this around?). When I see a really dumb post, I quite often click on people's "Game Designer" badge to see what they made, and quite often the game is - as a real example - their house rules for Mall of Horror (including art stolen by the bushel), only with character graphics from Resident Evil. Even if your KS fails miserably, you'll still have more of a game than many live pages. Perhaps some monetization ploy or something? quote:Yeah it's the difference between saying "Drink Coke, it's the best" vs. "Drink Coke, because Pepsi tastes like poo poo." Well, except they're not Coke they're Zeeblezapjuice - and right now anything that takes them from zero to non-zero awareness might be worth it. There's a balance: there's some people who may be mad, but even mad might be better than "completely unaware" (which is how many worthy Kickstarter games seem to die). "Polarizing" might be exactly what they want here (to a point.. if you dip too deep into negativity, the pool of people who respond well is going to dry up... Anyway, I don't think what's there now is crazy, just kind of a gamble - and now, having garnered a bit of attention, might be a good time to attempt to reframe that particular point). jmzero fucked around with this message at 21:41 on Jan 30, 2015 |
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Jan 30, 2015 21:30
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What makes the Strike! misstep so irritating is that there are already so many great quotes and design influences listed elsewhere on the Kickstarter page and the manual. Riffing more on how the idea for losing target numbers came from Apocalypse World would, for example, be a great place to start. Plus it would probably appeal to anyone who was interested in Dungeon World (everyone but GMS and Pundit.)
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Jan 30, 2015 21:36
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Leperflesh posted:Yeah it's the difference between saying "Drink Coke, it's the best" vs. "Drink Coke, because Pepsi tastes like poo poo." It's more like "Drink Coke, because all other cola is for gently caress heads, especially the other one, you know who we're talking about *wink wink*" Honestly if they published that page now it would be a lot less confrontational than it was at the time because the market is bigger than two companies (GW and WizKids were basically 99% of the non historicals market at this point). But that was ~2003 IIRC and there was basically just GW/WK. It specifically is aimed at what were (at the time) the main criticisms of GW's game that were pissing off "hardcore" gamers at the time (conversion of big models to plastics, shifting focus away from competitive play, power list dominance, hard to reference books, emphasis on cover) and it's basically a bullet pointed checklist of what was "wrong" with WH40k at the dawn of 4th edition. To me (even at the time) that strikes me as much more confrontational than quoting someone who said "If you liked this game but thought it took itself too seriously this game will be more your style".
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Jan 30, 2015 21:39
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El Estrago Bonito posted:Honestly if they published that page now it would be a lot less confrontational than it was at the time And in fact, it is way less confrontational in MkII.
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Jan 30, 2015 21:42
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I'm baffled by the idea that I am "dumping on" Mouse Guard and/or Burning Wheel. Those are my goddamn favourite games, as I would think should be quite clear considering they were easily some of the biggest influences on my design. If it's just that one quote from a playtester, then okay, I can see how some people could be upset. It was never my intention to bash anything. I mean, I'm one of the biggest Luke Crane fans on this forum. I LOVE Burning Wheel. I wish I was playing Burning Wheel right now! Hows about I just edit out those three words from that quote?
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Jan 30, 2015 21:49
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rantmo posted:And in fact, it is way less confrontational in MkII. Well thay had to be, they were already switching to plastic by then.
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Jan 30, 2015 21:51
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Jimbozig posted:I'm baffled by the idea that I am "dumping on" Mouse Guard and/or Burning Wheel. Those are my goddamn favourite games, as I would think should be quite clear considering they were easily some of the biggest influences on my design. I totally know where you're coming from! I also love burning wheel and your game. I just backed you, actually. I think editing those words from that quote is a smart thing to do, though, given the kind of ridiculous vendetta swearing that can go on in the hobby.
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Jan 30, 2015 22:00
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Jimbozig posted:I'm baffled by the idea that I am "dumping on" Mouse Guard and/or Burning Wheel. Those are my goddamn favourite games, as I would think should be quite clear considering they were easily some of the biggest influences on my design. Sure, that's fair enough. The problem is that, obviously, 99.99% of the people reading your pitch have absolutely no idea who you are; the only perception they have of you as a person and designer is going to be formed through what you put on the Kickstarter page. People aren't going to be particularly generous with their attention or forgiveness, because they're probably cycling through a dozen other Kickstarters who are also looking to get their money. The bigger problem, I think, is this: GrandpaPants posted:There's really nothing substantive for me to care about otherwise. You can say it's cool and exciting all you want, but without seeing cool examples or anecdotes of what people are actually doing, I just see another RPG of empty statements and mediocre to bad art. I also think that one picture of the arrows in the target is especially bad. There's a lot of "this game is really cool!" but pretty much no "this is why this game is really cool!" You talk about what you were inspired by and give some vague generalities, but there's no details to hook onto. I mean, to start with, why didn't you link the rules preview you did? Absolutely nothing makes me feel more charitable towards a Kickstarter than actually having the game in question to look at and judge for myself.
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Jan 30, 2015 22:05
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Tulul posted:Sure, that's fair enough. The problem is that, obviously, 99.99% of the people reading your pitch have absolutely no idea who you are; the only perception they have of you as a person and designer is going to be formed through what you put on the Kickstarter page. People aren't going to be particularly generous with their attention or forgiveness, because they're probably cycling through a dozen other Kickstarters who are also looking to get their money.
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Jan 30, 2015 22:10
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Oh, and also?Jimbozig posted:I'm baffled by the idea that I am "dumping on" Mouse Guard and/or Burning Wheel. Those are my goddamn favourite games, as I would think should be quite clear considering they were easily some of the biggest influences on my design.
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Jan 30, 2015 22:13
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Evil Mastermind posted:Oh, and also? I agree with this IF you are going to edit it or remove the whole thing (which . . . I don't feel as strongly about as some people). Your literal, honest "holy cow, no, guys, I didn't mean that at all" is so much better and more authentic than an unstealthy cover-up.
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Jan 30, 2015 22:32
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homullus posted:I agree with this IF you are going to edit it or remove the whole thing (which . . . I don't feel as strongly about as some people). Your literal, honest "holy cow, no, guys, I didn't mean that at all" is so much better and more authentic than an unstealthy cover-up. I'm already on it! Replied to Adam on Twitter and just posted a Kickstarter update thanking him for pointing it out. Posting it like that was a mistake and I have fixed it. I'm grateful to Adam for bringing attention to it.
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Jan 30, 2015 22:43
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Cla$$y would back.
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Jan 30, 2015 22:46
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Jimbozig posted:I'm already on it! Replied to Adam on Twitter and just posted a Kickstarter update thanking him for pointing it out. Posting it like that was a mistake and I have fixed it. I'm grateful to Adam for bringing attention to it. Well you've automatically passed a hurdle 90% of the industry wouldn't, well done.
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Jan 30, 2015 22:54
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Jimbozig posted:I'm already on it! Replied to Adam on Twitter and just posted a Kickstarter update thanking him for pointing it out. Posting it like that was a mistake and I have fixed it. I'm grateful to Adam for bringing attention to it. Very nicely done. Even if he's still mad, it speaks volumes that you owned it.
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Jan 30, 2015 22:56
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palecur posted:...HEX seems well received, though since I backed it primarily for the PvE and that's taking a long-rear end time to happen I do a lot of thumb-twiddling.... Just wanted to chime in with some news from the HEX thread that we're getting a PvE test arena server thing next week; https://hextcg.com/hex-update-arena-test-server/ They will be porting over everyone's details from the production server so you need to have made an account and logged in by the end of the weekend to get in on it
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Jan 31, 2015 07:04
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Trickerion is really looking like it might be just want I'm into It's worker placement where you play as rival magicians putting on shows.  And the blurb quote:Inspired by movies like the Prestige, Now You See Me and the Houdini mini-series, we created a world where magic and illusion are part of people’s everyday lives. Most of the magic tricks in the game are part of the repertoires of real world illusionists, past and present, but a pinch of supernatural was also added to the mix – just so you can never be sure whether those Spiritual tricks are really merely illusions... Although anything inspired by Now You See Me does make me worry slightly. That film was insultingly awful. Mojo Jojo fucked around with this message at 17:46 on Jan 31, 2015 |
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Jan 31, 2015 09:42
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Jimbozig posted:I'm already on it! Replied to Adam on Twitter and just posted a Kickstarter update thanking him for pointing it out. Posting it like that was a mistake and I have fixed it. I'm grateful to Adam for bringing attention to it. Was thinking about backing anyways, will definitely back now. Very cool of you.
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Jan 31, 2015 17:23
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I will be totally frank. I did not expect anyone calling Burning Wheel "pretentious" would ever be contentious. 
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Jan 31, 2015 17:38
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dwarf74 posted:I will be totally frank. I did not expect anyone calling Burning Wheel "pretentious" would ever be contentious. Don't get me wrong, it's pretentious as hell, but that's not the kind of thing you put in ad copy for your game. Like, the F&F thread has collectively decided John Wick is the smuggest sonuvabitch in RPGs (And they're probably right), but that doesn't mean that they'd say that when pitching their version of L5R. Making a Kickstarter is when you should be at your most professional, because it is probably going to be the whole of how your backers judge you.
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Jan 31, 2015 17:41
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dwarf74 posted:I will be totally frank. I did not expect anyone calling Burning Wheel "pretentious" would ever be contentious. Calling a game pretentious in support of a game that was once titled 'Sacred Barbecue' is pretty much the height of comedy, though.
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Jan 31, 2015 18:12
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My buddy Clint Krause (Don't Walk in Winter Wood, Unity Underground) launched a KS for an adventure module for OSR and LotFP. https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/464014331/the-stygian-garden-of-abelia-prem I made the cover for it.  ''The Stygian Garden of Abelia Prem is an eerie, location-based adventure module for low-level characters. It's directly compatible with Lamentations of the Flame Princess and more broadly compatible with a huge selection of OSR rule sets.''
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Feb 2, 2015 14:03
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Does anyone know how all the Kickstarter projects with cool looking minis are actually getting them produced? Are they doing injection moulding themselves? Is a third party miniature company doing the sculpts and manufacturing or are the project runners sending off 3d modelled sprues to get moulded in China?
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Feb 2, 2015 14:38
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Monster w21 Faces posted:Does anyone know how all the Kickstarter projects with cool looking minis are actually getting them produced? Are they doing injection moulding themselves? Is a third party miniature company doing the sculpts and manufacturing or are the project runners sending off 3d modelled sprues to get moulded in China? The vast majority are manufactured in China, where they are the smallest of clients at massive plastics factories that are otherwise pumping out light fittings and coat hangers, a tiny handful of UK ones have had theirs manufactured locally by Renedra.
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Feb 2, 2015 14:46
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NTRabbit posted:a tiny handful of UK ones have had theirs manufactured locally by Renedra. drat, never heard of those folks but if they're good enough for the Perry brothers...
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Feb 2, 2015 14:50
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