|
Broken Loose posted:Yeah, the 25-quests are huge offenders with respect to this; they obviously didn't get enough playtesting because their effects don't make up for completely totaling your economy to achieve them. The expansion's 40-quests are much more worth it, and the expansions in general show that the design of the game greatly benefits from using actual play data. Do you have any data or other basis for this? With the base game our group has generally found the 25-quests to be very good, with the priest/wizard ones better than the fighter/rogue ones since you can often find some building to get several adventurers of choice. Doing one big quest instead of two small ones saves you the action collecting the other quest, too. With the expansion I've only played the corruption/Skullport half, so haven't tried the 40-point quests.
|
#
?
Feb 2, 2015 02:53
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 15, 2024 23:11 |
|
|
quote:Doing one big quest instead of two small ones saves you the action collecting the other quest, too. At the beginning, you really want to get some lingering effects out of your quests, and at the end bigger quests are risky, and still generally less efficient than small quests that match your Lord. Sometimes you'll end up taking them and they can be OK, but they're not spectacular, and they expose you to really getting hosed by colliding on resource needs (or mandatory quests), and generally they limit your choices. For the most part my complaint isn't so much about direct balance between individual quests (though there is issues), it's that "getting the quests you want" is such a big contributor to the game's outcome, and you have so little control over it (especially if the players before you in turn order share your quest types).
|
|
#
?
Feb 2, 2015 03:17
|
|
|
Girlfriend and I just played a game of Concordia using the metal coins from Tuscany. It was great even though she beat me by 3 points.
|
|
#
?
Feb 2, 2015 03:28
|
|
|
Trip report: Olympos - felt similar to Kemet (own it, love it, barely ever win it) with area control and power tiles, but a 7 Wonders ish resource system rather than a numeric economy. Different spots produce different things, which can be captured, and you can get single use resource cubes to round out big purchases. There are occasional Zeus events that favor the faithful, but the big mechanic for me is you are as limited by "time" as anything else. Different actions take you ahead an amount of time (spaces), and you only go again when you are in last, so being efficient with your time gives you more turns. A couple component issues that came up quickly - that might be due to us misreading the rules - there are some cards that give you a Zeus token, and you are supposed to split Zeus' favor or wrath on ties, but there were only two Zeus tokens, and no way to "split" cards that are to be saved until later use. We had to use dummy tokens and cards starting about 30 minutes in to a 2 hour game - were we doing something wrong? Istanbul with four. I could have maybe tied by taking my chances gambling for money rather than visiting the market, but it was still a close game. It may be solvable, but I am in no danger of hitting that point yet. Good shorter game. Viticulture with two so I could finally try my copy out and I was short on time. The visitors were amusing but highly varied. I got lucky with a couple that let me discard all the lame-os for some effect. The grande worker is pretty great - you can never get completely shut out from accomplishing at least a part of your plan, but you only have the one. An hour to finish even with several rule lookups, but I worry it might drag at 4+ players. I think I'll get a lot of play out of it before I need to add in anything from the expansion. JohnnySavs fucked around with this message at 05:32 on Feb 2, 2015 |
|
#
?
Feb 2, 2015 05:30
|
|
|
These Loving Eyes posted:
I take it you don't think Cthulhu Wars does? Because that's certainly among its stated goals.
|
|
#
?
Feb 2, 2015 08:20
|
|
|
Ravendas posted:Played Castles of Burgundy for the first time, two players with my wife. I'd like to add to this that I didn't enjoy Castles of Burgundy all that much the first time for a lot of the reasons you've listed, but on repeat plays I've started to enjoy it a lot more as the real point of the game comes across - trying to best optimise each of your turns and slowly push all of your goals until you reach them in the closing rounds (like filling large regions, completing building types, etc), while preventing your opponent from doing the same, if possible.
|
|
#
?
Feb 2, 2015 08:25
|
|
|
JohnnySavs posted:Viticulture with two so I could finally try my copy out and I was short on time. The visitors were amusing but highly varied. I got lucky with a couple that let me discard all the lame-os for some effect. The grande worker is pretty great - you can never get completely shut out from accomplishing at least a part of your plan, but you only have the one. An hour to finish even with several rule lookups, but I worry it might drag at 4+ players. I think I'll get a lot of play out of it before I need to add in anything from the expansion. We played our first game with five players in 90 minutes including explanation, setup and breakdown. It doesn't drag at all. It may actually be slightly quicker than with less than five for new players, as you don't have to remember that only one or two of the worker spaces can be used. If you already have the expansion, I would advise you to add the two new Visitor decks and the Mamas and Papas to the game immediately. They add a lot without adding real complexity.
|
|
#
?
Feb 2, 2015 09:03
|
|
|
Jedit posted:We played our first game with five players in 90 minutes including explanation, setup and breakdown. It doesn't drag at all. It may actually be slightly quicker than with less than five for new players, as you don't have to remember that only one or two of the worker spaces can be used. How realistic is this game? My mother is in the wine business, so I'm not sure if she would like the theme or just pick it apart. I mean, is it just random grapes and wine types or does it actually make sense? Also, is it just me being in Sweden, or is pretty much everything I want to buy not in stock anywhere? Pandemic: On the brink, Agricola: all creatures big and small, dead of winter, d-day dice expansions, Vitoculture. I just managed to pick up Takenoko because I was lucky and they got send copies this friday.
|
|
#
?
Feb 2, 2015 09:28
|
|
|
Sistergodiva posted:How realistic is this game? My mother is in the wine business, so I'm not sure if she would like the theme or just pick it apart. I mean, is it just random grapes and wine types or does it actually make sense? It shows the necessary steps not just of making wine but of running a vineyard - negotiating for orders and hosting tours as well as producing wine. If your mother is an anal retentive who picks holes in everything she'll have lots to work with, but if she can appreciate it as an abstraction of the theme she'll like it.
|
|
#
?
Feb 2, 2015 11:05
|
|
|
Fluxx is terrible, worse than Munchkin
|
|
#
?
Feb 2, 2015 11:16
|
|
|
Jedit posted:It shows the necessary steps not just of making wine but of running a vineyard - negotiating for orders and hosting tours as well as producing wine. If your mother is an anal retentive who picks holes in everything she'll have lots to work with, but if she can appreciate it as an abstraction of the theme she'll like it. I don't think so, mostly just curious since I thought I saw stuff like making sparkling wine using red grapes and stuff like that in a review, but I could be wrong. Would it be a good introduction to worker placement games?
|
|
#
?
Feb 2, 2015 11:53
|
|
|
All this talk of wine-making euros and no mention of Vinhos, the heavy wine-making-in-Portugal game, in sight. For shame, goons. For shame. Also Vinhos has the plus of not being Another Worker Placement Game, still being a meaty euro design, and for all its depth and complexity finishing its play in two or less hours.
|
|
#
?
Feb 2, 2015 11:54
|
|
|
Sistergodiva posted:I don't think so, mostly just curious since I thought I saw stuff like making sparkling wine using red grapes and stuff like that in a review, but I could be wrong. Yeah, a friend of mine constantly bitches that you make sparkling wine with two red grapes and a white. I personally don't see the issue - they're the highly rewarding but hard to make item and it's two red and a white because that's the best balance for the contracts. I don't know if it would be the best introduction to WP games because you have two placement phases instead of the usual one and several possible modifiers to what the actions do. A smart person would be able to cope though.
|
|
#
?
Feb 2, 2015 13:27
|
|
|
Champagne is a mix of two red and one white variety so the game recipe is fine.
|
|
#
?
Feb 2, 2015 15:11
|
|
|
Blush is also one white grape and one red grape, if that will set your mom off (I have no idea I hate wine but love this game).
|
|
#
?
Feb 2, 2015 16:14
|
|
|
Memnaelar posted:I take it you don't think Cthulhu Wars does? Because that's certainly among its stated goals. I've glanced at the rules and watched some gameplay videos of CW, and it seems that the designer Sandy Petersen didn't really grasp what made CitOW great. CW basically rips off only the most basic mechanics of CitOW making it a meager step above Risk in complexity. Instead of four truly different player factions, they are just variations of a theme, because it all boils down to dice rolling. In CitOW, usually only the Khorne player has to rely heavily on his or her dice rolls, while the other gods require you to manipulate the different tokens on the board, to pay attention to fulfilling your dial advancement conditions, to manage your chaos cards to both deny other players and boost your troops or points, and to bluff and double-bluff how your troops will be finally placed when you run out of power. The most ingenious part of CitOW is the strange mix of co-operation between the other three (or four) gods to deny Khorne of his or her kills while trying to backstab each other at the same time.
|
|
#
?
Feb 2, 2015 16:26
|
|
|
I was just given a $50 dollar gift certificate for Amazon as a very late Christmas present. Because I already got Dungeon Lords and Vinhos this month thanks to lucky finds on the BGG marketplace, I'm looking for thread recommendations on how to blow this on board games. I am specifically looking for recommendations on heavier games that are good with two that aren't super competitive. (I know, I know. Just go with Rahdo. But he put Shadowrun: Crossfire at the top of his last best of list so he's completely unreliable.)
|
|
#
?
Feb 2, 2015 17:41
|
|
|
Impermanent posted:I am specifically looking for recommendations on heavier games that are good with two that aren't super competitive. (I know, I know. Just go with Rahdo. But he put Shadowrun: Crossfire at the top of his last best of list so he's completely unreliable.) No, he isn't. Just filter game types you dislike. Alternately, buy Archipelago.
|
|
#
?
Feb 2, 2015 17:45
|
|
|
I like co-ops and deckbuilders but dislike trash  also thanks for the suggestion but I already own & love Archipelago, the game of oppressing my ancestors.
|
|
#
?
Feb 2, 2015 17:48
|
|
|
Impermanent posted:I am specifically looking for recommendations on heavier games that are good with two that aren't super competitive. (I know, I know. Just go with Rahdo. But he put Shadowrun: Crossfire at the top of his last best of list so he's completely unreliable.) I don't think it's good to put faith in any of the "popular" reviewers since they get their games for free and tend to ebay them immediately afterwards, regardless of how much they liked it. It's a very shilly practice. Anyway, I'm not sure how to qualify "not super competitive" besides stuff like MTG, but I guess I'll just say Tash Kalar. I'm not sure it's that heavy, though, since the rules are pretty elegant. Twilight Struggle is the other obvious 2p heavy (?) game. My group really digs Theseus: The Dark Orbit, which I'm glad for since I dig it too. The first half of the game is pretty weird since your dudes aren't really spread out or interacting, but you still want to land on spaces where you can put pending cards without other people stripping yours away. Or the mad dash to prevent someone from installing a card like Onslaught. The interactions are really nice, although I can see how it can very easily cause a ton of analysis paralysis, so watch out for that. I'm not even prone to it most of the time, but I have to see what my options are and how many people can enter this spot or otherwise screw me out of the movement I wanted to do and that just takes a lot of time looking at circles. Like Tash Kalar, though, I suspect that the game is better the fewer the number of players there are. Even like Tash Kalar, they offer a 2v2 variant for 4 players that I suspect would be better than the free for all, but would be worse than the 3p or 2p. On another note, what is the social protocol for quarterbacking in a non-cooperative game? Like if someone at the table keeps pointing out moves to other players that are beneficial both to him and the player in question, but that the player may not have seen by himself? Assume this is a game where all players are of equal-ish skill level, i.e., you're not coaching a new player with good moves they would be unlikely to see.
|
|
#
?
Feb 2, 2015 17:50
|
|
|
Impermanent posted:I like co-ops and deckbuilders but dislike trash
|
|
#
?
Feb 2, 2015 17:51
|
|
|
I'm touching the poop and about to start an argument on the SU&SD comments section about why Tom Vasel is bad for the future of board games.
|
|
#
?
Feb 2, 2015 17:52
|
|
|
I think if all players are equal playing skill then the dude pointing out moves that are beneficial to the other player and himself is just playing the politics of the game. I don't think of it as quarterbacking so much as just good aggressive play within the confines of a Euro. Maybe I'm the rear end in a top hat, though, because I'm the guy who does this. But I've seen it blow up in my face more often than not as people decide not to take those moves to spite but. But now I also suggest moves even though I secretly don't want people to take them because I'm pretty sure they won't take them if I suggest them. So if your group is willing to play in that kind of space I think you're fine. Also, good suggestion! I love Tash-Kalar but I already have it. By "not super competitive" I mean few "screw-you" moves like Dominant Species or Caylus's provost. I'm really looking for something else that's kind of like Vinhos in terms of complexity. I've been eye-ing Kanban but I'm woefully ignorant of heavier games compared to middleweight stuff.
|
|
#
?
Feb 2, 2015 17:58
|
|
|
Broken Loose posted:Mage Knight is really close to what you want. Man I should just have listed all the games I own because I have a biweekly Mage Knight group and that game is A+ in my book. (Also I played in the 1st thread hosted by our most gracious game master Tekopo.) Big McHuge posted:I'm touching the poop and about to start an argument on the SU&SD comments section about why Tom Vasel is bad for the future of board games. Yessss do it maybe I'll help. Impermanent fucked around with this message at 18:06 on Feb 2, 2015 |
|
#
?
Feb 2, 2015 18:00
|
|
|
Impermanent posted:I was just given a $50 dollar gift certificate for Amazon as a very late Christmas present. Because I already got Dungeon Lords and Vinhos this month thanks to lucky finds on the BGG marketplace, I'm looking for thread recommendations on how to blow this on board games. Kemet.
|
|
#
?
Feb 2, 2015 18:12
|
|
|
Some Numbers posted:Kemet. I also think I remember hearing that Dungeon Lords is wicked fun with two, since he already has that. And Dungeon Petz is really great too.
|
|
#
?
Feb 2, 2015 18:17
|
|
|
Impermanent posted:Yessss do it maybe I'll help. This is actually really hard to do without using the words autistic, grognard, or basement-troll.
|
|
#
?
Feb 2, 2015 18:21
|
|
|
Big McHuge posted:This is actually really hard to do without using the words autistic, grognard, or basement-troll. It must be difficult to refrain from referring to his two mouth-breathing friends.
|
|
#
?
Feb 2, 2015 18:23
|
|
|
Impermanent posted:I like co-ops and deckbuilders but dislike trash Have you tried LotR LCG? It's about the most complex non-confrontational ~lifestyle~ type of game out there that I've found. It's a money sink, though Edit: you probably already have race for the Galaxy, and it's not vinhos complexity at all, but it's my favorite for playing something not too rear end in a top hat-ish with my wife after work fozzy fosbourne fucked around with this message at 18:32 on Feb 2, 2015 |
|
#
?
Feb 2, 2015 18:26
|
|
|
Watching those posts is like watching your parents get into a huge yelling match and then the phone rings and it's one of your dad's work friends and your mom answers the phone and her voice changes to cheerful and she's containing it so well but this is worse now, right? You're less comfortable now than when your parents were yelling.Big McHuge posted:This is actually really hard to do without using the words autistic, grognard, or basement-troll. Impermanent fucked around with this message at 18:39 on Feb 2, 2015 |
|
#
?
Feb 2, 2015 18:26
|
|
|
.
|
|
#
?
Feb 2, 2015 18:38
|
|
|
Some Numbers posted:Kemet. If I were ever going to recommend a game on the basis of not being supercompetitive, Kemet would be the first game I would never think of.
|
|
#
?
Feb 2, 2015 18:39
|
|
|
You know, the near instantaneous setup and tear down time of RftG is pretty underrated, I think. Sometimes that's not a priority, but there are times when I've woken up early before work to cleanup the last game and set up the board for something like Dungeon Petz or Galaxy Trucker, just to have a chance of playing it that night after work and dinner, and I look over at Race sitting there.. The stars on the box form a constellation that looks like the smug smiley
|
|
#
?
Feb 2, 2015 18:44
|
|
|
Jedit posted:If I were ever going to recommend a game on the basis of not being supercompetitive, Kemet would be the first game I would never think of. Oh hey, that's a thing that was said in that post. My bad.
|
|
#
?
Feb 2, 2015 18:48
|
|
|
Apparently doing something for free grants you the eternal gratitude of everyone and makes you free from criticism. Doubly so if you were the first person to do it. Also I'm supposed to feel bad about criticizing Vasel because that is a petty thing to do. What a bunch of horseshit.
|
|
#
?
Feb 2, 2015 18:49
|
|
|
Big McHuge posted:Apparently doing something for free grants you the eternal gratitude of everyone and makes you free from criticism. Doubly so if you were the first person to do it. Link to this?
|
|
#
?
Feb 2, 2015 18:51
|
|
|
Kemet is a great game but neither "not super competitive" nor "good with two" are phrases that accurately describe.
|
|
#
?
Feb 2, 2015 18:53
|
|
|
goodness posted:Link to this? http://www.shutupandsitdown.com/blog/post/games-news-020215/ Comments section.
|
|
#
?
Feb 2, 2015 18:59
|
|
|
Big McHuge posted:Apparently doing something for free grants you the eternal gratitude of everyone and makes you free from criticism. Doubly so if you were the first person to do it.
|
|
#
?
Feb 2, 2015 19:01
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 15, 2024 23:11 |
|
|
http://www.shutupandsitdown.com/blog/post/games-news-020215/#disqus_thread More power to you, Vasel coup leading goons. I don't think he should stop making videos or anything, but I do think it would be nice if it was more commonly established that the three of them getting goony about some games is not a great helpdesk for the hobby. I'm also not really sure what niche they really fill because I wouldn't want them as a newbie introduction for someone, but I also don't think people who are already fluent in the hobby benefit much from these quick rules overviews and brief gut reactions to games. Sitdown&Shutup or Starlit Citadel are much better for the former and I think Drive Thru Review or Rahdo Runs through is much better for the latter, with Watch it Played occupying some separate tutorial space.
|
|
#
?
Feb 2, 2015 19:05
|
|