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What was Abe supposed to do in this situation? It was only going to end in death unless wheelbarrows of money were sent to the terrorists.
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Feb 2, 2015 17:10
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Right after the first demand for the two was released my wife said that Japan (meaning the people and online commentators) were being super naive about it. It was like they hadn't been paying attention to the last six months. Those two were doomed the moment they were captured.
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Feb 2, 2015 17:21
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I'm of the opinion that this hostage situation couldn't have gone any better for Abe's agenda. It gives him another lever to put pressure on for expanding the range of the SDF which he has wanted for a while, which then gives him an excuse to expand defense spending.
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Feb 2, 2015 20:31
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ocrumsprug posted:Right after the first demand for the two was released my wife said that Japan (meaning the people and online commentators) were being super naive about it. It was like they hadn't been paying attention to the last six months. Was there more or less contempt for the ISIS captives then the Japanese captives captured in Iraq back in 2005? I remember when those captives were freed their families were publicly apologizing to the Japanese people for them getting caught.
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Feb 2, 2015 20:46
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Kenishi posted:I'm of the opinion that this hostage situation couldn't have gone any better for Abe's agenda. It gives him another lever to put pressure on for expanding the range of the SDF which he has wanted for a while, which then gives him an excuse to expand defense spending. I've had the same thoughts that Abe was dancing around because this is the perfect thing he could bring up anytime someone questions his military expansion plans. But it's not like it was an attack by foreign terrorist on Japanese soil, they basically stuck their foot in the bear trap so not sure how much actual leverage he can get out of it. I'm sure it's fired up the legions of internet retards who support him.
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Feb 2, 2015 22:11
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Madd0g11 posted:I'm sure it's fired up the legions of internet retards who support him. quote:安倍さんはアラーに宣戦布告した偉大なる日本人のリーダーである。 Ya, seems so.
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Feb 2, 2015 23:02
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Madd0g11 posted:I've had the same thoughts that Abe was dancing around because this is the perfect thing he could bring up anytime someone questions his military expansion plans. But it's not like it was an attack by foreign terrorist on Japanese soil, they basically stuck their foot in the bear trap so not sure how much actual leverage he can get out of it. I'm sure it's fired up the legions of internet retards who support him.
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Feb 2, 2015 23:35
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ReidRansom posted:Ya, seems so.
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Feb 3, 2015 00:35
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Kurtofan posted:What was Abe supposed to do in this situation? It was only going to end in death unless wheelbarrows of money were sent to the terrorists. My reaction was, if I myself was captured by ISIS and heard they were asking for a $200 million ransom, I'd be like -- yeah, that's a bit too much, y'all don't have to pay that I'll just get my head chopped off.
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Feb 3, 2015 01:24
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Kurtofan posted:What was Abe supposed to do in this situation? It was only going to end in death unless wheelbarrows of money were sent to the terrorists. Just spit-balling here, but maybe not borrow a page from Mitt Romney's campaign playbook and spin the deaths of your countrymen for your own political ends. Also, maybe not be such a gently caress-up with speeches in foreign languages that you actively antagonize the people holding citizens of your country hostage.  It does not logically follow that because it was a lost cause then it's okay for Abe to use them as pawns in his political game. People around here weren't happy when it happened with Benghazi, and that was the ultimate lost cause, those people were already dead. Here we had a situation with tremendous incompetence and relentless politicking while people were still alive, and that's cool with people here because the people were gonna die anyway. ErIog fucked around with this message at 01:31 on Feb 3, 2015 |
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Feb 3, 2015 01:28
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Protocol 5 posted:loling really hard at "the emperor is the only true god" I don't know about you, but I'll readily admit my Japanese is only so so, and so it is entirely possible that post is dripping with sarcasm I'm just not picking up on. But the Japanese don't really do sarcasm, the internet is the internet, and it came from 2ch, so, you know.
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Feb 3, 2015 02:11
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ReidRansom posted:I don't know about you, but I'll readily admit my Japanese is only so so, and so it is entirely possible that post is dripping with sarcasm I'm just not picking up on. But the Japanese don't really do sarcasm, the internet is the internet, and it came from 2ch, so, you know. My own knowledge of the Japanese language is basically limited to Google Translate, but I have trouble seeing that statement as anything other than sarcastic, or at least intentionally hyperbolic.
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Feb 3, 2015 02:17
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We'd all love to believe everyone on Freep is being ironic too, but unfortunately, insane right wing people posting dumb poo poo on the internet is pretty real. Sometimes they like to get together and hold rallies in favor of expelling the foreign menace too. They're a big tent of lunacy.
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Feb 3, 2015 02:41
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ErIog posted:We'd all love to believe everyone on Freep is being ironic too, but unfortunately, insane right wing people posting dumb poo poo on the internet is pretty real. Sometimes they like to get together and hold rallies in favor of expelling the foreign menace too. They're a big tent of lunacy. Don't get me wrong, I could easily believe the general sentiment is sincere; I wouldn't be surprised if people were posting worse things without irony in the same thread. It's just the "the emperor is the only god" bit that gives it away; how can you be a fascist Shinto fundamentalist and a monotheist? Silver2195 fucked around with this message at 03:29 on Feb 3, 2015 |
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Feb 3, 2015 03:23
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ErIog posted:Abe's government is also party responsible for the first hostage to begin with as they detained the person that was supposed to be going to help the first hostage get released. Frankly, I see both Tsuneoka and Nakata as just wanting attention (which seems slightly ironic considering that this is exactly the way Tsuneoka described the college student).
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Feb 3, 2015 03:36
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Silver2195 posted:My own knowledge of the Japanese language is basically limited to Google Translate, but I have trouble seeing that statement as anything other than sarcastic, or at least intentionally hyperbolic. ReidRansom is basically correct when he says that Japanese people don't really "do" sarcasm - I'd bet Edit: perhaps not the house only because I'd have expected them to mention that Hakko Ichiu monument or something instead of Yasukuni if they were hardcore about it, but it could just as well be your generic 'mainstream' uninformed right winger spouting poo poo he's heard in the media. Silver2195 posted:Don't get me wrong, I could easily believe the general sentiment is sincere; I wouldn't be surprised if people were posting worse things without irony in the same thread. It's just the "the emperor is the only god" bit that gives it away; how can you be a fascist Shinto fundamentalist and a monotheist? The same way people pray to "kamisama" despite Shintoism including innumerable "gods" - don't think too hard about it and keep following through the motions you've been taught, which is incidentally the same way you do pretty much everything else in Japan. Sheep fucked around with this message at 05:27 on Feb 3, 2015 |
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Feb 3, 2015 04:53
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Silver2195 posted:Don't get me wrong, I could easily believe the general sentiment is sincere; I wouldn't be surprised if people were posting worse things without irony in the same thread. It's just the "the emperor is the only god" bit that gives it away; how can you be a fascist Shinto fundamentalist and a monotheist? When we were visiting Himeji castle, there was a black van driving around blaring some ultra-right political message. The emperor is the only god WAS the political message.
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Feb 3, 2015 06:01
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Jesus christ, not even crazy right-wingers think the emperor is the only god. Even Kanji Nisho, who wrote what may be the most famous[ly stupid] revisionist history in recent memory, devoted like an entire chapter in his book to how stupid westerners were idiots for believing the complete nonsense that Japanese people believe[d] the emperor is "God" (leading to a complete misunderstanding of the motivations of Japanese people during and after WWII), because in reality the emperor is just the most important and awesome kami  .
mystes fucked around with this message at 07:23 on Feb 3, 2015 |
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Feb 3, 2015 07:21
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Sheep posted:ReidRansom is basically correct when he says that Japanese people don't really "do" sarcasm
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Feb 3, 2015 11:27
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Protocol 5 posted:Japanese people totally do sarcasm, that's just a baseless stereotype. Are you being sarcastic?
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Feb 3, 2015 12:09
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If it's sarcasm then it falls under Poe's law. I can't understand why people don't believe that insane right wing people can exist in Japan. Look up nihon jinron for god sakes. It's silly as poo poo, and it was/is pretty popular.
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Feb 3, 2015 12:14
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ErIog posted:I can't understand why people don't believe that insane right wing people can exist in Japan. Japan has to be one of the most poorly understood and idealised countries ever in a long list of contenders (read, every country ever).
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Feb 3, 2015 12:42
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Disinterested posted:Japan has to be one of the most poorly understood and idealised countries ever in a long list of contenders (read, every country ever). In conclusion, Japan is a land of contrasts.
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Feb 3, 2015 14:39
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Disinterested posted:Japan has to be one of the most poorly understood and idealised countries ever in a long list of contenders (read, every country ever).
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Feb 3, 2015 14:44
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Ned posted:In conclusion, Japan is a land of contrasts. Imagine a Shinto shrine with a motorway flyover being built on top of it - forever.
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Feb 3, 2015 14:45
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ErIog posted:Look up nihon jinron for god sakes. It's silly as poo poo, and it was/is pretty popular.
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Feb 3, 2015 15:31
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Sonderweg reporting for duty.
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Feb 3, 2015 15:33
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There are insane right wingers in Japan, but that post still reads like a troll. "Mr. Abe is a the great leader of the Japanese people who declared war on Allah"? Come the gently caress on dudes.
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Feb 3, 2015 17:07
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It look really sarcastic, to me.
Morkyz fucked around with this message at 07:29 on Feb 4, 2015 |
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Feb 4, 2015 07:25
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Lol, you know there's a problem with a country's business culture when the only option left is to force people to take vacations. Workaholic Japan considers making it compulsory to take vacation days quote:Workers typically use less than half their annual leave, according to a survey by the labor ministry that found employees in 2013 took only nine of their 18.5 days average entitlement.
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Feb 5, 2015 01:53
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Kenishi posted:Lol, you know there's a problem with a country's business culture when the only option left is to force people to take vacations. Mandating people take leave is a good idea to take the blame away from them for not being at work, but I wonder if it would actually work. You already have a lot of places basically not bothering to observe pesky things like weekends, national holidays, or their child's first day of high school. I wonder if mandated leave like this would have weird perverse consequences. You might have businesses pressuring their workers to come in, but "sorry, we can't pay you the overtime rate today because you're getting your regular salary as a paid vacation day according to the law." It's not like businesses give any fucks about actually paying the overtime rate anyway, though. So it probably wouldn't happen like that. This is a good idea, but Japan doesn't really need more labor laws. It needs to enforce the poo poo already on the books.
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Feb 5, 2015 02:04
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ErIog posted:Mandating people take leave is a good idea to take the blame away from them for not being at work, but I wonder if it would actually work. You already have a lot of places basically not bothering to observe pesky things like weekends, national holidays, or their child's first day of high school. Am I to assume that unions don't really do much in Japan anymore? I know this story is probably not referring to unionized workers, but I'm still curious.
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Feb 5, 2015 02:13
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ErIog posted:Mandating people take leave is a good idea to take the blame away from them for not being at work, but I wonder if it would actually work. You already have a lot of places basically not bothering to observe pesky things like weekends, national holidays, or their child's first day of high school. Yep, you're pretty much right. From what I can tell (mostly anecdotal - I did a lot of personal research since I was job hunting the last couple months) it's very polarized in Japan. Companies are either "white" (follows labor laws, decent salary raises, good work life balance) and or are "black" (disregard labor laws, long hours, high turnovers, power harasses on the regs), with not much in between. This is kind of illustrated in the quoted article since even though the average holiday consumption rate is around 50%, 1 in 6 workers apparently took zero days off. Very polarized. Perverse consequences probably won't happen though. The black companies will just ignore the laws as always. I also find it really funny that the closest english counterpart to the japanese black company wikipedia page is "sweatshop" (the first paragraph of the jp page explains why it's different from the concept of sweatshop). edit: as an aside, a consequence of this point is that it's unfair to broadly label all japanese companies as "give no fucks about overtime" or whatever. Many, many companies in japan, big and small, care a lot about it. My new job which is at a major top 20 market value japanese company pays all overtime, has an ultra lax flex time system (you only have to show up 15 minutes each working day, you can make up the time literally whenever you want), maternity/paternity leave, the works. Zo fucked around with this message at 02:45 on Feb 5, 2015 |
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Feb 5, 2015 02:40
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ErIog posted:This is a good idea, but Japan doesn't really need more labor laws. It needs to enforce the poo poo already on the books. That's one way to hit the nail right on the loving head. Zo posted:I also find it really funny that the closest english counterpart to the japanese black company wikipedia page is "sweatshop" (the first paragraph of the jp page explains why it's different from the concept of sweatshop). Also, I think it is fair to apply a broad label to Japan about giving no gently caress about overtime, as you put it. Your personal anecdotes are absolutely valid but also not the norm by a long stretch by virtue of where you work - you yourself said it's a major top 20 market value Japanese company, which presumably has more resources (not to mention being under far more scrutiny) than the innumerable small businesses that actually make up the majority of companies in the country. Sheep fucked around with this message at 15:43 on Feb 5, 2015 |
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Feb 5, 2015 15:36
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Sheep posted:Also, I think it is fair to apply a broad label to Japan about giving no gently caress about overtime, as you put it. Your personal anecdotes are absolutely valid but also not the norm by a long stretch by virtue of where you work - you yourself said it's a major top 20 market value Japanese company, which presumably has more resources (not to mention being under far more scrutiny) than the innumerable small businesses that actually make up the majority of companies in the country. You might be right, but personally I'd be surprised if companies that don't pay overtime are a big majority since overtime is a huge part of many people's salary here. I've never been able to find reliable stats on this topic. If you have I'd love to see it. Overtime statistics are easy to find, but overtime paying stats less so. I guess it's almost impossible to keep track on a population basis given the numerous ways a company can avoid paying overtime, whether みなし残業 falls under this (it should), etc. Also, company size doesn't really mean they're going to follow rules. Uniqlo is an infamous example of that.
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Feb 6, 2015 01:38
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Zo posted:You might be right, but personally I'd be surprised if companies that don't pay overtime are a big majority since overtime is a huge part of many people's salary here. I've never been able to find reliable stats on this topic. If you have I'd love to see it. Overtime statistics are easy to find, but overtime paying stats less so. I guess it's almost impossible to keep track on a population basis given the numerous ways a company can avoid paying overtime, whether みなし残業 falls under this (it should), etc. Aren't the official numbers for every office that all salarymen work 38.5 hours a week, the legal maximum by Japanese law? Japan and labor statistics is a hilarious mess of workarounds and outright lies that literally no one believes. The entire business/work culture is pretty hosed up. Even the innovative industries like Sony stagnated as gently caress as the talent retired and left and rather then promoting the best people they went with the time honored "oldest person gets the promotion"
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Feb 6, 2015 02:39
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Close, Japan's official statistics that they submit to the OECD etc are that the average work week is 34.7 hours: 5 days a week of 9-5 with just under an hour for lunch*. AKA complete and utter, utter bullshit even if you figure in all the haken/baito/housewives doing 4 hours a week pa-tos. For reference, South Korea seems to be a bit more honest and reports 2163 hours/year (41ish hours/week average). It's pretty obvious that Japan decides what they want the world to see and then makes the figures fit. * hours are reported annually, Japan reports 1735 hours / (52 weeks - 10 national holidays) = 34.7 hours. Sheep fucked around with this message at 03:26 on Feb 6, 2015 |
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Feb 6, 2015 03:22
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My boss back in Japan was always bragging to us that he was working 80+ hours a week. Bragging.
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Feb 6, 2015 03:26
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My personal anecdotes aren't all that important, but you have to ask if they're even being productive working that much or just taking the piss and wasting time. If I had 80 hours a week to work I don't even know what I'd do, I'd be bored out of my skull within a week and a half.
Sheep fucked around with this message at 03:37 on Feb 6, 2015 |
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Feb 6, 2015 03:31
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Sheep posted:My personal anecdotes aren't all that important, but you have to ask if they're even being productive working that much or just taking the piss and wasting time. If I had 80 hours a week to work I don't even know what I'd do, I'd be bored out of my skull within a week and a half. The bulk of it isn't even productive work, it's just being physically there in the building/office longer then your superiors for the sake of being seen. Japan's business culture has been notorious for not adapting labor saving technology and "getting with the times" so to speak. Tokyo Vice, while full of poo poo, had the best anecdote for the Japanese business environment I've ever read. At the paper Adelstein worked at, rather then buying a computer and digitizing records there was a person who's sole job was to collate and sort baseball statistics on file cards and give the cards to the sports reporters when they needed them. He had apparently been doing it for 15-20 years, created his own specific system of how to do it so it was incomprehensible to anyone else, and literally no one on staff or management ever questioned it. Sheep posted:Close, Japan's official statistics that they submit to the OECD etc are that the average work week is 34.7 hours: 5 days a week of 9-5 with just under an hour for lunch*. AKA complete and utter, utter bullshit even if you figure in all the haken/baito/housewives doing 4 hours a week pa-tos. For reference, South Korea seems to be a bit more honest and reports 2163 hours/year (41ish hours/week average). It's pretty obvious that Japan decides what they want the world to see and then makes the figures fit. Japan's official statistics are such complete horseshit that I can't understand why they even bother submitting them. Does anyone outside of Japan honestly believe those numbers?
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Feb 6, 2015 04:38
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