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hironobu sakaguchi, creator of such hits as blue dragon, lost odyssey, and the last story
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Feb 3, 2015 19:26
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ZenMasterBullshit posted:It's less than simple. It's loving dumb. This kind of sums up the weak parts of the Final Fantasy franchise in a nutshell! I mean that basically is the problem with a lot of bad FF stories. They're not too complex or hard to understand. They're just plain dumb. FFXIII is king of just plain dumb but there are plenty of strong competitors to the throne.
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Feb 3, 2015 19:27
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It is Final Fantasy. Comparing the stories between two of the games in the series and then expressing a subjective opinion about how much one personally enjoyed one over the other is about as legitimate of an argument as it gets.
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Feb 3, 2015 19:29
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ZenMasterBullshit posted:And then the heroes do gently caress all while constantly flip flopping between "LETS KILL THE BAD GUYS" "WAIT NO THE BAD GUYS WANT THAT!" "NEVERMIND LETS KILL THE BAD GUYS". Yeah maybe that's what threw me off. I just kept losing track of what my goal was, what a FalCie or a Lcie was, etc. At least FFX set up Sin as the big bad guy right away. Like compare these: quote:Final Fantasy X begins with the main protagonist, Tidus, waiting with his allies outside the ruins of an ancient city. Tidus narrates the events that led to the present, spanning most of the game's storyline. It begins in Tidus's home city, the high-tech metropolis of Zanarkand, where he is a renowned star of the underwater sport blitzball. During a blitzball tournament, the city is attacked by an immense creature which Auron, a man not originally from Zanarkand, calls "Sin". Sin destroys Zanarkand, taking Tidus and Auron to the world of Spira. quote:Final Fantasy XIII begins in Cocoon as the citizens of the town of Bodhum are being evicted, or Purged, from Cocoon after coming in contact with something from Pulse.[36] Over the course of the game, the player is shown flashbacks of the events of the previous 13 days, which began when a fal'Cie from Pulse was discovered near Bodhum. Lightning's sister Serah had found the fal'Cie from Pulse and been changed into a l'Cie by it. Lightning and Sazh derail a Purge train bound for Pulse in an attempt to save Serah. In the subsequent battle, Snow leads his resistance group, NORA, to rescue the Purge exiles. Several of them are killed, including Hope's mother. As Snow heads to the fal'Cie Anima to save Serah, he is joined by two of the exiles: Hope and Vanille. The two groups meet at the fal'Cie, and find Serah just as she turns to crystal. Anima then brands them all as l'Cie and they are cast out into a different part of Cocoon. During this transformation, the newly crested l'Cie all have the same vision: a monster called Ragnarok. The group, arguing over the ambiguous nature of the dreamed Focus, find Serah in her crystallized form; Snow remains with her as the others leave. I tried to cut them off at the point where the story introduces a "big bad" guy. My eyes glazed over trying to read FFXIII a few times there.
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Feb 3, 2015 19:29
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Vil posted:Her actual line delivery isn't bad, although she's not as consistent with the accent as she might be. My issues with Vanille boil down mainly to two things: I actually like that about her. I mean her brains are scrambled eggs for a number of reasons, she's literally insane and dealing with it by being a spastic cheerleader. "YAY US!" 
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Feb 3, 2015 19:29
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The part where FFX reveals that your rear end in a top hat dad was actually not an rear end in a top hat at all but the coolest savior of humanity that always believed in you and loved you is the dumbest part in any Final Fantasy ever.
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Feb 3, 2015 19:32
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Tae posted:What exactly are you missing in the story aspects. just off the top of my head, how seymour, mika, and auron still have bodies and aren't either fayth or fiends after being dead, what the "drawbacks" of being dead are if they allow you to still have a physical form and interact with others (thereby backhandedly legitimizing seymour's argument that everyone should be dead), what actually happened in the beginning if zanarkand never existed in the first place, how auron got back in time (or into the dream-zanarkand that tidus inhabits) to tidus, what tidus' status is for the duration of the game (if he's a dream of a dead civilization how does he have a body, is he alive or dead, etc), why zanarkand was revealed to be a dream of the fayth in the first place since it has no real effect on the story being told and "zanarkand was real, Sin went back in time while bringing a now-dead auron to get tidus to bring him forward in time to finally kill Sin and in the process destroyed zanarkand" was more than explanatory as to what in the hell zanarkand was with the dream-zanarkand being a completely unnecessary complication that raises more questions than answers, how jecht got pulled into spira in the first place and why and that's just off the top of my head
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Feb 3, 2015 19:34
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This was posted in the XIII LP thread:Instant Grat posted:Cool fact: in the video files for the PC version of FF13, the audio is divided in to several tracks (probably to facilitate audio setups with variable amounts of speakers). Here is a clip of just the track with the voices from one of the cutscenes during the final boss rush  If you're not using headphones.
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Feb 3, 2015 19:35
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precision posted:The part where FFX reveals that your rear end in a top hat dad was actually not an rear end in a top hat at all but the coolest savior of humanity that always believed in you and loved you is the dumbest part in any Final Fantasy ever. that's not really what happened though? jecht was kind of a bad dad but not because he didn't care about tidus, and during the pilgrimage he kinda started to realize that and became a better person
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Feb 3, 2015 19:38
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really for all i don't like about the writing in x tidus and jecht is one of the more compelling parts imo
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Feb 3, 2015 19:39
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Toxxupation posted:*questions about FFX's story* Tidus, as well as the entirety of the Zanarkand you spend the intro of the game in, are both actively being summoned by all the Fayth statues on Gagazet, with Yu Yevon as the summoner. It's located miles off the coast of Spira. Sin didn't actually carry Tidus forwards in time, he just... physically carried him to the dank old ruins where he wakes up after the prologue.
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Feb 3, 2015 19:40
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It's still true that Zanarkand not being "real" is an unnecessary twist and kind of dumb
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Feb 3, 2015 19:42
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Toxxupation posted:just off the top of my head, how seymour, mika, and auron still have bodies and aren't either fayth or fiends after being dead, what the "drawbacks" of being dead are if they allow you to still have a physical form and interact with others (thereby backhandedly legitimizing seymour's argument that everyone should be dead), what actually happened in the beginning if zanarkand never existed in the first place, how auron got back in time (or into the dream-zanarkand that tidus inhabits) to tidus, what tidus' status is for the duration of the game (if he's a dream of a dead civilization how does he have a body, is he alive or dead, etc), why zanarkand was revealed to be a dream of the fayth in the first place since it has no real effect on the story being told and "zanarkand was real, Sin went back in time while bringing a now-dead auron to get tidus to bring him forward in time to finally kill Sin and in the process destroyed zanarkand" was more than explanatory as to what in the hell zanarkand was with the dream-zanarkand being a completely unnecessary complication that raises more questions than answers, how jecht got pulled into spira in the first place and why They all have bodies because of Pyreflies. The same as monsters. They just have their bodies held together in roughly human shape. It is bad because if you lose control you become a monster. Zanarkand existed. the Dream-Zanarkand was also made of Pyreflies and existed in a place most people couldn't get to. It is literally a giant summon monster shaped like Zanarkand. The real Zanarkand doesn't exist anymore. Tidus also is Pyreflies. He (and all the summons) are given physical form composed of Pyreflies. Like pretty much all the answer there is Pyreflies. There was no time travel at all.
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Feb 3, 2015 19:42
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precision posted:It's still true that Zanarkand not being "real" is an unnecessary twist and kind of dumb nah it works fine and is necessary
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Feb 3, 2015 19:42
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because Pyreflies
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Feb 3, 2015 19:44
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precision posted:because Pyreflies I mean you can bitch about it being dumb but it is an established setting trait and based off actual Japanese mythology/spirituality. v  v It's not actually an unexplained thing and literally every battle ends with poo poo dissolving into Pyreflies.
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Feb 3, 2015 19:47
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Final Fantasy XIII is a consistently muddled, confused, and boring mess. Nothing changes in an interesting way for the majority of the game, the postgame content requires an absolute gently caress-ton of grinding, the characters are actively making you not care about their problems since every thing they do and every struggle they commit to over the course of the game is essentially inconsequential. Basically by making the characters powerless and unable to make meaningful contributions to the flow of the plot it becomes a giant fuckfest of "ok when will the god-like being decide the plot will move on?" because it doesn't for the longest time and the game just stalls stalls stalls stalls for a million years until finally you get to the endgame and it doesn't really matter, you just move from one battle to another over and over until the final battle, in which case you are done. In other words, it's a very slow and boring game that is uninteresting because what actions you can actually take are very very limited. Hell even a lot of the battles are just boring slogs to get through once you figure out the optimal way to defeat an enemy because the designers decided to give X random trash mob 500% stagger threshold or 10 million hp or resistance to every element and halved physical damage. The only time I had fun playing all of FFXIII was doing later-game hunts and bosses earlier for the challenge and then gave up when massive grinding became a pre-requisite to complete the post-game.
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Feb 3, 2015 19:47
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How Rude posted:the postgame content requires an absolute gently caress-ton of grinding, You can do most of the post-game content at level 1 with base equipment. The ones you can't involve either upgrading equipment or leveling up just enough to get a specific move or number of HP.The only thing you need to grind for are trophies/achievements. You literally do not need to grind at all to finish FFXIII's post-game content. At worst you need to come back after doing other sidequests instead.
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Feb 3, 2015 19:48
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ZenMasterBullshit posted:And then the heroes do gently caress all while constantly flip flopping between "LETS KILL THE BAD GUYS" "WAIT NO THE BAD GUYS WANT THAT!" "NEVERMIND LETS KILL THE BAD GUYS". This is exactly the problem with the game. I kept expecting there to be some sort of twist to what was going on, but no. Space Pope told them exactly what he wanted, with absolutely no bullshit. The party wants to "protect cocoon" and they do that by fighting him (even though they just did and had no reason to think they could win). Then he... fuses(?) with Orphan and they decide to kill it so cocoon won't be under its control (despite having no plan what to do afterwards). Then Vanille and Fang save the day. There is nothing more to it then that, the party is just really stupid.
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Feb 3, 2015 19:49
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How Rude posted:massive grinding became a pre-requisite to complete the post-game. You know that you can get an ultimate weapon for all of your characters by only grinding 2 Traps right? That is easily the most useful advice I can offer anyone who is shooting for that goal.
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Feb 3, 2015 19:50
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Xavier434 posted:You know that you can get an ultimate weapon for all of your characters by only grinding 2 Traps right? That is easily the most useful advice I can offer anyone who is shooting for that goal. Far more useful advice: turn off the game and go outside.
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Feb 3, 2015 19:55
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Xavier434 posted:You know that you can get an ultimate weapon for all of your characters by only grinding 2 Traps right? That is easily the most useful advice I can offer anyone who is shooting for that goal. That's not why you grind in the postgame, bro. You do it for Platinum Ingots to sell for money because ahahaha good loving luck getting enough to upgrade enough to be able to use those free infinite Traps otherwise.
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Feb 3, 2015 20:01
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Yeah I'm not sure how you say the FFX cutscenes are clear and forget that the time travel thing wasn't actually a thing like 3/4ths into the game. I think Tidus expeditiously said he's not real and is told he's just essentially a messenger from the fayth. When's the last time you played it.
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Feb 3, 2015 20:04
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Oxxidation posted:Far more useful advice: turn off the game and go outside. 
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Feb 3, 2015 20:04
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Tae posted:Yeah I'm not sure how you say the FFX cutscenes are clear and forget that the time travel thing wasn't actually a thing like 3/4ths into the game. I think Tidus expeditiously said he's not real and is told he's just essentially a messenger from the fayth. When's the last time you played it. Oh god all Final Fantasy games are terrible aren't they
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Feb 3, 2015 20:11
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Now you realize the truth, my child.Gologle posted:Does he deserve this, thread? I mean, does he really deserve this? Sakaguchi is a great guy by all accounts, but really. Lol, what a friggin' joke.
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Feb 3, 2015 20:13
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Tae posted:Yeah I'm not sure how you say the FFX cutscenes are clear and forget that the time travel thing wasn't actually a thing like 3/4ths into the game. I think Tidus expeditiously said he's not real and is told he's just essentially a messenger from the fayth. When's the last time you played it. I'm replaying it right now; Tidus is told he's a dream of a dead civilization but it's at zero point explained that he never actually time travelled, none. triplexpac posted:Oh god all Final Fantasy games are terrible aren't they this is really my fundamental point. FF games are all different flavors of the same bullshit and it's really quite dumb that people try to rank them as "good" or "bad" story-wise or gin up arguments that essentially try to ignore the fact that they're glossing up "i like this game but don't like that game".
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Feb 3, 2015 20:16
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Toxxupation posted:this is really my fundamental point. FF games are all different flavors of the same bullshit and it's really quite dumb that people try to rank them as "good" or "bad" story-wise or gin up arguments that essentially try to ignore the fact that they're glossing up "i like this game but don't like that game". FFXIII is a standout because it's explicitly been revealed as a pile of half-finished, disastrously mis-managed art and gameplay assets hastily thrown together to recoup some of the development costs from the wallets of people who didn't know any better. It's the crown jewel of SE's failures as a company. The slightly smaller crown jewel, if you count the original FFXIV. The best thing I can say about it is that it was fascinating to watch SE try and salvage some kind of coherent mythos from the original mess and eventually came up with "this game's universe is literally too stupid to exist" by the time Lightning Returns rolled around.
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Feb 3, 2015 20:22
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Toxxupation posted:this is really my fundamental point. FF games are all different flavors of the same bullshit and it's really quite dumb that people try to rank them as "good" or "bad" story-wise or gin up arguments that essentially try to ignore the fact that they're glossing up "i like this game but don't like that game". actually no, some things are good and some things are bad and it's okay to point that out
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Feb 3, 2015 20:23
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Oxxidation posted:It's the crown jewel of SE's failures as a company. 
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Feb 3, 2015 20:24
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New Theatrythm Songs, Nier!!!!! BMS Final Fantasy IX — “Vamo’ alla Flamenco” BMS Sword of Mana 2 / Seiken Densetsu 3 — “Swivel” BMS SaGa Frontier 2 — “Miβgestalt” BMS Chrono Trigger — “Frog’s Theme” FMS Legend of Mana — “Ruined Sparkling City” FMS NieR Gestalt/RepliCant — “Kainé/Salvation” http://www.finalfantasy.net/ix/curtain-call-dlc-live-japan/
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Feb 3, 2015 20:25
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Did FFXIII have James loving Woods? I don't seem to remember FFXIII having James loving Woods.
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Feb 3, 2015 20:25
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Kurtofan posted:New Theatrythm Songs, Nier!!!!! Oh god loving drat it. NiER DLC is too good.
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Feb 3, 2015 20:26
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Oxxidation posted:FFXIII is a standout because it's explicitly been revealed as a pile of half-finished, disastrously mis-managed art and gameplay assets hastily thrown together Again, that could describe a full half to 3/4 of FFs I don't think FFXIII's dev story or finished byproduct is any more ludicrous than FFVII's, whose translation is...tragic to say the least, or FFVIII, which storywise completely falls off the rails starting in the middle of disc 3 (and had the one fan explanation that tied in a bunch of the disparate plot elements directly refuted officially), or FFXII, where the director literally had a mental breakdown and the game shipped with its story literally a third finished with a protagonist explicitly added in after what little story there was was already written to appeal to the demographic that loved FFX NieR Occomata fucked around with this message at 20:34 on Feb 3, 2015 |
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Feb 3, 2015 20:26
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Toxxupation posted:Again, that could describe a full half to 3/4 of FFs Neither of those games had such gems as a developer spending weeks to render a single rock because no one was giving her any other work to do. FFXIII is the standout. It hasn't been topped in ineptitude, and will not be topped until FFXV's fifty-volume biopic (working title: Oh God, Oh God, Where Did Everything Go Wrong) finally hits shelves.
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Feb 3, 2015 20:31
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Toxxupation posted:hironobu sakaguchi, creator of such hits as blue dragon, lost odyssey, and the last story Last generation, Sakaguchi actually shipped multiple AAA games on reasonable development cycles. He's also successfully launched Terra Battle, a mobile game that is a critical and financial success. SE's management would kill for that productivity considering their top talent magically forgot how to make games last generation.
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Feb 3, 2015 20:33
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Kurtofan posted:New Theatrythm Songs, Nier!!!!! I KNEW THIS DAY WOULD COME
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Feb 3, 2015 20:35
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Oxxidation posted:Neither of those games had such gems as a developer spending weeks to render a single rock because no one was giving her any other work to do. FFXIII is the standout. It hasn't been topped in ineptitude, and will not be topped until FFXV's fifty-volume biopic (working title: Oh God, Oh God, Where Did Everything Go Wrong) finally hits shelves. Eh. You're making an assumption here that the other FF games had unflawed developments because we didn't hear about them, which is pretty unlikely considering some of the backstory we have heard about previous games. I mean we know FFXII has a huge clusterfuck behind the scenes but most of it is kept tightly locked away so we only have some hearsay and rumor. You also know the "one rock" thing is completely unsourced, right? Like it was repeated as a rumor but there's no actual source for it. There are development things aplenty which are well sourced (the CGI movies being finished before the game being one) but that one's basically apocryphal. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 20:41 on Feb 3, 2015 |
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Feb 3, 2015 20:36
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That Nier track is not even in my top 10 Nier tracks, but it's still really good. I am excited for more tracks though and will buy this one because Nier music is godlike. Also it's about time Vamo all Flamenco got added.
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Feb 3, 2015 20:39
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Where the fucks my NieR 2, SE
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Feb 3, 2015 20:40
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