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i think the only elves that look worse than mantics are the nyss in the PP horde range
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Feb 3, 2015 15:08
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LordAba posted:You like the Mantic models? I like playing 40k. Doesn't mean it is not poo poo. No it doesn't, just means you have an opinion.
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Feb 3, 2015 15:38
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LordAba posted:
Looks alright to me for 15mm
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Feb 3, 2015 15:50
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Daedleh does kinda work for or at least with Mantic. I generally don't think the elves look too bad though outside of the dragons, who are too comical compared to the rest of the range. Otherwise the best Mantic stuff are the various flavors of dwarves and undead. Everything else is a step behind in terms of overall quality. Orcs, orges, knights, etc are all decent but just not as good as that fantastic range of medieval skrunts and zomblers.
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Feb 3, 2015 16:31
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TheCosmicMuffet posted:Still. It only takes a metal tentacle falling with leverage from a resin body to drive all the way through an infants skull. Warhams shouldn't breed.
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Feb 3, 2015 16:42
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osirisisdead posted:Warhams shouldn't breed. What he's saying is that even if we do breed, nature makes sure accidents are corrected.
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Feb 3, 2015 17:01
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Hra Mormo posted:Looks alright to me for 15mm I'm not sure whether that was the joke - but if not, that's a 25mm elf.
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Feb 3, 2015 17:38
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that elf looks like straight up dogshit
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Feb 3, 2015 17:49
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Big Willy Style posted:i think the only elves that look worse than mantics are the nyss in the PP horde range Please. As if anyone has ever successfully assembled a unit of nyss.
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Feb 3, 2015 17:54
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Thirsty Dog posted:Please. As if anyone has ever successfully assembled a unit of nyss. I played in a tournament this weekend with Nyss... I had to repair some to before the first game, after the first game, and after the second... I am also just assuming that when I go look at them in their foam tray later some will be broken... Seriously gently caress those models, they are the worst thing to put together ever.
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Feb 3, 2015 18:10
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Mantic's Elves: They're a little bit cartoony, and they have soft details. They're very "generic elf" looking, nothing unique that stands out, which reflects their true role as cheap replacements for other company's expensive models. And that's OK, I feel, it's how the company's grown the last few years. They're not premium miniatures, but it's OK because they're not priced like premium miniatures. Most kits you're paying around a buck a figure. Some of them are crap, though. The archers kit is $35 for ten archers, and they're definitely not $3.50 figures. They have a good deal on the big army box though, which pushes the price back down to a point where it's reasonable. I can understand if some people don't mind the look, particularly for rank-and-file troops painted to tabletop quality, but nobody who paints finely-detailed precious gems of etc. etc. would look at one of these and call it a high-quality sculpt.
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Feb 3, 2015 20:03
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Aww.  I was so stoked that there was a huge history buff opinion fest going on in here, and then it turned on a dime and became about elves Can we at least combine the two? How did elves get a reputation for being amazing super-warriors, anyway? Legolas acts like loving Morpheus is coaching him in the movies, now, but tolkein's books never made them out to be more than reluctant combatants who were really good shots; but who cares, because skill doesn't go very far against hordes of monsters with no fear that want to eat you. And if you go back to what 'elf' meant before Tolkein, they're just little feisty goofballs who are more likely to curse you or steal your baby than fight in a standup battle. There's these elf fetishists in the US who are always acting like pointy ears and an LL Bean bow make them elite warriors, when they don't *realize* that the Quendari dropped the ball during the sundering, and it was up to the Dunedain to pick up the slack. The only reason Sauron rose in the east was Elf insularity and racism! What's more, the orc were nothing more than corrupted elves--why isn't *that* the face of the so called first ones in people's minds?! I say, go ahead and diminish when you travel across the sea to Valinor. Stay in the halls of Mandos, you fucks.
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Feb 3, 2015 20:27
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It's probably just the basic assumption that if you're literally immortal and you're willing to use a weapon, you probably get really goddamn loving good at it after a century or three. Especially if you manage to not die during that time. Combine with the idea that the elves aren't exactly popping out kids regularly, and then add on that there just aren't that many around total, and you can either consider them to be mega-elite warriors, or you can consider them to be irrelevant to the military picture entirely.
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Feb 3, 2015 20:31
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I'd rather use an entire army of EM4 plastics than touch those ugly rear end mantic elves. Compare them to GW's Galadhrim, IE: good looking cheap elf minis.
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Feb 3, 2015 20:38
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Leperflesh posted:It's probably just the basic assumption that if you're literally immortal and you're willing to use a weapon, you probably get really goddamn loving good at it after a century or three. Especially if you manage to not die during that time. Combine with the idea that the elves aren't exactly popping out kids regularly, and then add on that there just aren't that many around total, and you can either consider them to be mega-elite warriors, or you can consider them to be irrelevant to the military picture entirely. That's the stereotype now. But one of the reasons humans get as far as they do is that mortality lights a fire under our rear end to have us accomplish something. Sure, if you have theoretically forever to practice wax on/wax off, then maybe you'll be awesome. But why would you bother to get good? Wouldn't you rather just sing your forest songs and weave plants into each other so they grow in a bower shape across your topiary? Answer; yes. Plus, and this might be too meta, Tolkein lived through WWI--the war that, even more than the US civil war, and Napoleonic wars, proved that becoming incredibly skilled had a severe shelf life in the face of an industrialized enemy like Mordor, and later Isengard. If not for the mobile artillery capability of the Ents, who could say what would have happened to the western front? Skill can't matter when you're facing one of the 9, or a Nazghul. During the battle of the 5 armies, it was pretty obvious that the forces from Murkwood were not more effective than the dwarves, or even the humans of laketown! Elves are bullshit. You're better off fielding Apaches.
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Feb 3, 2015 20:47
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El Estrago Bonito posted:I'd rather use an entire army of EM4 plastics than touch those ugly rear end mantic elves. Compare them to GW's Galadhrim, IE: good looking cheap elf minis. Tubby fuckers though:  (Also they defaulted the site to Swedish Krone for me for some reason. Good work, GW.)
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Feb 3, 2015 20:59
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AND WHY NOT? Shadowrun seems like the only setting where elves can even get fat. I can understand if they have great metabolisms and eat leaves or whatever but surely there is still some variation within the species!
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Feb 3, 2015 21:04
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TheCosmicMuffet posted:How did elves get a reputation for being amazing super-warriors, anyway? At a guess, the LotR films? Prior to that (as best I can recall from my days of playing AD&D), they were basically "humans with pointy ears, infravision, and a mystical, ethereal quality about them". Well, either that, or they were slumming it with humans (and making half-elf kids as a result). I don't think the "elves as lithe killing machines of expertly skilled death" thing started until Warhammer maybe (and likely more so in 40k, with the Eldar), and it was probably finally cemented in the popular imagination with the Peter Jackson films. That's just my guess, tho, and I'm sure there are vast reams of fantasy novels prior to the movies that I've forgotten/never read that made elves out to be walking graceful Cuisinarts with a sword. 
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Feb 3, 2015 21:05
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When burging for 400 years you reach, look as good, you will not.
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Feb 3, 2015 21:09
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Ignite Memories posted:AND WHY NOT? Because Elves are eternally those annoyingly thin vegan fuckers who don't seem to have any fun and look down on anyone who might enjoy junk food.
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Feb 3, 2015 21:10
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Sydney Bottocks posted:That's just my guess, tho, and I'm sure there are vast reams of fantasy novels prior to the movies that I've forgotten/never read that made elves out to be walking graceful Cuisinarts with a sword. RA Salvatore gave us this fellow in 1988:  e: and there's a lot of elves in Tolkien who are superbly skilled warriors, like, "far above and beyond humans, fighting Sauron to mutual death" or almost beating Morgoth or whatever. As a race, Tolkien built them up as generally better-than-human in all regards, so it stands that their armies are just straight-up "better". Majuju fucked around with this message at 21:22 on Feb 3, 2015 |
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Feb 3, 2015 21:12
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Yeah even in AD&D days the elven archer stereotype was prevalent.
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Feb 3, 2015 21:19
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Majuju posted:RA Salvatore gave us this fellow in 1988: Fair enough, it has been a looooong time since I delved into ye olde fantasy literature (more of a sci-fi person myself), so I was sure there were probably other examples of the elven warrior trope that I was forgetting.
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Feb 3, 2015 21:27
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Elves are prancing forest poofsters by default. If you decide you want an Elf to be cool instead then he becomes Legolas (missile) or Drizzt (melee). There is no space between these extremes.
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Feb 3, 2015 21:30
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In conclusion, death to elves.
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Feb 3, 2015 21:30
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The Silmarillion explains the Elves a bit more than The Lord of the Rings does, one of them even killed the greatest Balrog in combat
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Feb 3, 2015 21:35
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Thirsty Dog posted:Because Elves are eternally those annoyingly thin vegan fuckers who don't seem to have any fun and look down on anyone who might enjoy junk food. Oh god, tell me about it. Lembas?! I tell you what, son, bread and water is a punishment, not some kind of health regimen. This is tyranny of the metabolically advantaged! It's all inflammatory cytokines in this hobby!! Sydney Bottocks posted:Fair enough, it has been a looooong time since I delved into ye olde fantasy literature (more of a sci-fi person myself), so I was sure there were probably other examples of the elven warrior trope that I was forgetting. You didn't really miss anything important. R.A. Salvatore was the author that finally taught me the difference between silly pulpy crap that, while not awesome literature, was fun and had some cool ideas, AND, hopelessly masterbatory turn-key mary sue bullshit that literally makes you dumber. And it took me (i think?) like 12 books to finally realize it. When you read a ~300 page book that introduces a horrible demon that's torturing some character in hell in the first chapter, and then goes for 90% of its length neither mentioning the demon nor the dark elf hero who will eventually kill him, and, in that last couple chapter, the elf literally trips over a sword designed to kill *exactly that demon* that had been lost forever for some reason, and then confronts the demon and kills it with that sword... you finally look inward and realize you've gone horribly wrong somewhere along the line. I think it's called a moment of clarity. TheCosmicMuffet fucked around with this message at 21:43 on Feb 3, 2015 |
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Feb 3, 2015 21:39
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Basic LOTR elf lore is that their firstborn are demigods/angels and their following generations are not far removed. With few exceptions, they're better than everyone at everything and are the exemplars of what a person should strive to be--people who have never met elves are impressed when they meet people who speak Elvish.
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Feb 3, 2015 21:45
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Also, long elf hair is a primary sexual organ for them. Like, the more flowinger and longer an elf's hair, the more desirable they are. You can tell Tolkein wasn't willing (or able?) to put actual sex into his stories, so elf hair serves as kind of a stand-in.
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Feb 3, 2015 21:46
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OneThousandMonkeys posted:Basic LOTR elf lore is that their firstborn are demigods/angels and their following generations are not far removed. With few exceptions, they're better than everyone at everything and are the exemplars of what a person should strive to be--people who have never met elves are impressed when they meet people who speak Elvish. They also spent two entire ages fighting wars against the one true evil and his creations, Sauron in LOTR being but his chief lieutenant.
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Feb 3, 2015 21:47
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yeah, the elves are like full on in the tolkien universe and kill gods and whatever. tolkien is usually more subtle with his magic use and power and isnt like WAAAAAAGH FOOT OF GORK he is more 'the sun rises with mithrandir and the orcs didndt bring their sweet shades the battle is lost' but then he has deicide inflicting elves. makes you think,
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Feb 3, 2015 21:47
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Also gandalf is jesus
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Feb 3, 2015 21:49
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TheCosmicMuffet posted:Aww. holy poo poo how loving rude go back to reading the silmarillion
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Feb 3, 2015 21:51
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has anyone here actually finished reading The Silmarillion? I'm finding it hard to read because it's more like a history book hosed the bible and it had a kid with downs
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Feb 3, 2015 21:53
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Leperflesh posted:Also gandalf is jesus Gandalf and the wizards are angels. Morgoth, if I'm remembering right is kind of the antichrist. I'm not sure if there's a christ-figure in Tolkien's mythology or not--that is, in terms of a literally incarnate redemptive mortal sacrificial character. I hate to be nitpicky, but on the other hand, I always liked how weirdly complicated the middle earth crap was. Even if I was bored stiff by the Silmarillion and only made it about half way through my copy. Leo Showers posted:has anyone here actually finished reading The Silmarillion? I'm finding it hard to read because it's more like a history book hosed the bible and it had a kid with downs No. Though, I have a feeling that the early part is the worst, because it's written like Tolkien's notes about the setting, instead of a story, whereas the later part might get better--since it had to be fleshed out more by his son. But I'll never find out because the early part killed my enthusiasm.
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Feb 3, 2015 21:57
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TheCosmicMuffet posted:Gandalf and the wizards are angels. Morgoth, if I'm remembering right is kind of the antichrist. I'm not sure if there's a christ-figure in Tolkien's mythology or not--that is, in terms of a literally incarnate redemptive mortal sacrificial character. Gandalf is a pretty obvious Christ figure.
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Feb 3, 2015 21:57
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OneThousandMonkeys posted:Gandalf is a pretty obvious Christ figure. Nah. He's a guide, not a preacher, he's an advisor to kings, and he's not of humble origin. He doesn't sacrifice himself to redeem the race of men. He's definitely not perfect until he falls fighting the Balrog. He's a literal angel. He was created before elves or men, and he's part of a special class of divine beings that includes Saruman and Radagast the brown. I think Tolkien was probably extremely reluctant to put jesus anywhere in his narrative because he'd have thought it was disrespectful. While evil is meticulously documented with devil, antichrist, sin, and judas analogues, there's no clear statement about what or where God is--even in the background material. God is remote and taken as a given. It doesn't appear on the field of battle or speak directly to people or anything else. He got some flak in his day for being interested in the prechristian stuff that made up the basis for a lot of his books, and also went out of his way to say he wasn't writing an analogy for WW1 or European politics. My guess is that he didn't want a christ figure in his stories. Pretty much everybody gets tempted or cut down to size at some point. Edit: \/\/ No, he's not resurrected. He's an immortal creature that can't die. He falls fighting the balrog and struggles with it until it goes away, basically. The experience tempers him, and makes him worthy of being white. I don't know what that means in Tolkien's mind, but it's nothing like christ. TheCosmicMuffet fucked around with this message at 22:08 on Feb 3, 2015 |
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Feb 3, 2015 22:05
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Yeah Gandalf falls and is resurrected in a purer form. More broadly, the whole of middle-earth is redeemed through his actions, although he shares the jesus status with Frodo and Sam. Also Boromir is Judas. And the Fellowship is Gandalf plus twelve. And Saruman is also Judas. So is Gollum. Oh yeah, and Strider is also Moses. Elrond is also Moses, and he leads the elfjews to the promised land Mordor is Palestine Oh wait the dwarves are pretty obviously the jews, they even have names that sound like hebrew. I guess that makes the Lonely Mountain palestine, and Smaug is the arabs ...so the impossibly pretty and superior elves are what, the girls who picked on Tolkein in high school? Leperflesh fucked around with this message at 22:14 on Feb 3, 2015 |
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Feb 3, 2015 22:05
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TheCosmicMuffet posted:No. Though, I have a feeling that the early part is the worst, because it's written like Tolkien's notes about the setting, instead of a story, whereas the later part might get better--since it had to be fleshed out more by his son. But I'll never find out because the early part killed my enthusiasm. yeah same i can't get past the early poo poo it's just tooooooo booooooooooorrrring
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Feb 3, 2015 22:12
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TheCosmicMuffet posted:You didn't really miss anything important. R.A. Salvatore was the author that finally taught me the difference between silly pulpy crap that, while not awesome literature, was fun and had some cool ideas, AND, hopelessly masterbatory turn-key mary sue bullshit that literally makes you dumber. How did it take you approximately 12 books to figure out the first one was poorly written? This complaint doesn't make any sense to me. Drizzt is the furthest thing from a Mary Sue, and Salvatore is the epitome of silly pulpy fun.
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Feb 3, 2015 22:14
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