D&D NEXT: Infinite Posts of the Abyss

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Boing: Jul 12, 2005; trapped in custom title factory, send help

ActusRhesus posted:

Also, I was looking for a little more than "write rogue on character sheet. Pick assassin." Skill expertise? Feat Selection? Benefits to one race vs. another? I get it, this game isn't as micro-managey as 3.5 was. But I was looking for some practical advice from people who have actually played the class, not "hey the rule book says assassin gets to use disguises so pick that." I can read.

You got all of this. You're being purposefully obtuse now. People gave advice on skills and feats, and you don't need a rundown of racial benefits since they are minor and you can read.

There is literally nothing else to it, because that's as far as 5E goes.

# ? Feb 3, 2015 21:34

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# ? May 14, 2024 00:50

ActusRhesus: Sep 18, 2007; "Perhaps the fact the defendant had to be dragged out of the courtroom while declaring 'Death to you all, a Jihad on the court' may have had something to do with the revocation of his bond. That or calling the judge a bald-headed cock-sucker. Either way."

being purposefully obtuse? or being very new to 5.0 and still working from a 3.5 mindset where there's a lot more to it than that and picking the wrong skill or feat can really gently caress up your character? OK, got it. It's not that complicated any more.

but, you know, if you want to keep insulting me, that's cool too.

# ? Feb 3, 2015 21:38

Lemniscate Blue: Apr 21, 2006; Here we go again.

And in case you do want explicit race advice, you want to avoid Halfling (though it's tempting) because there will be more times you want to disguise yourself as a Medium creature than a Small one. Drow puts stat bonuses in the right place for you but again has practicality concerns for interaction with NPCs. Wood Elf is good for more of a sneaky rogue. Half-Elf is perfect for a con artist, matched only by the feat-using variant of Human if your table is using feats (which are present, but an optional rule in 5e).

EDIT: Picking a useless feat for your character can still deprive you of a lot of ability, but in 5e it's a little harder to actually do that for a couple reasons. One, the number of feats has been cut down drastically, so it's harder to miss the ones that will be good for you. Also, they have been made more powerful, so the piddly little "+1 in an obscure circumstance" stuff that matches your concept but is mechanically nothing is gone.

Whether those two things will remain true as more material gets published over the edition's lifespan is anyone's guess. Feat Bloat has been a thing in every edition where feats were a thing so far.

Lemniscate Blue fucked around with this message at 21:46 on Feb 3, 2015

# ? Feb 3, 2015 21:40

ActusRhesus: Sep 18, 2007; "Perhaps the fact the defendant had to be dragged out of the courtroom while declaring 'Death to you all, a Jihad on the court' may have had something to do with the revocation of his bond. That or calling the judge a bald-headed cock-sucker. Either way."

BatteredFeltFedora posted:

And in case you do want explicit race advice, you want to avoid Halfling (though it's tempting) because there will be more times you want to disguise yourself as a Medium creature than a Small one. Drow puts stat bonuses in the right place for you but again has practicality concerns for interaction with NPCs. Wood Elf is good for more of a sneaky rogue. Half-Elf is perfect for a con artist, matched only by the feat-using variant of Human if your table is using feats (which are present, but an optional rule in 5e).

That's actually the direction I am going in (tentatively): human with observant feat which a. gives you poo poo tons of bonus to perception and investigate which fits the character I'm making (more an information thief than a money thief) and has the added benefit of offsetting some of the disadvantage for not having darkvision.

# ? Feb 3, 2015 21:43

IT BEGINS: Jan 15, 2009; I don't know how to make analogies

P.d0t posted:

Man, if only some goon was currently testing a d20-based game where casters and non-casters ran off the same mechanics for combat and non-combat, rather than [casters just being better X times per day/non-casters being just as good but only at much higher levels.]

Oh, wait.

If I can convince my group to relinquish their death-grip on D&D then I'll definitely try running this.

# ? Feb 3, 2015 21:47

Lemniscate Blue: Apr 21, 2006; Here we go again.

ActusRhesus posted:

That's actually the direction I am going in (tentatively): human with observant feat which a. gives you poo poo tons of bonus to perception and investigate which fits the character I'm making (more an information thief than a money thief) and has the added benefit of offsetting some of the disadvantage for not having darkvision.

Note that those bonuses are only to your passive scores - they won't help when you're actively rolling for what you're doing, only when the DM feels like there's information there for you to notice. Which may not jive with your idea of same.

Actor was suggested earlier if you'll be doing the disguise thing, and that was a big part of Locke Lamora, for example. Also a +1 to Charisma for your social skills can be a big help.

# ? Feb 3, 2015 21:53

Name Change: Oct 9, 2005

BatteredFeltFedora posted:

And in case you do want explicit race advice, you want to avoid Halfling (though it's tempting) because there will be more times you want to disguise yourself as a Medium creature than a Small one. Drow puts stat bonuses in the right place for you but again has practicality concerns for interaction with NPCs. Wood Elf is good for more of a sneaky rogue. Half-Elf is perfect for a con artist, matched only by the feat-using variant of Human if your table is using feats (which are present, but an optional rule in 5e).

EDIT: Picking a useless feat for your character can still deprive you of a lot of ability, but in 5e it's a little harder to actually do that for a couple reasons. One, the number of feats has been cut down drastically, so it's harder to miss the ones that will be good for you. Also, they have been made more powerful, so the piddly little "+1 in an obscure circumstance" stuff that matches your concept but is mechanically nothing is gone.

Whether those two things will remain true as more material gets published over the edition's lifespan is anyone's guess. Feat Bloat has been a thing in every edition where feats were a thing so far.

They essentially made drow unplayable in this edition so there's that.

# ? Feb 3, 2015 22:01

eatenmyeyes: Mar 29, 2001; Grimey Drawer

How much does it cost to build roads? How many workers and how many days? I can't ripoff the Lords' Alliance and the Zhentarim if I don't know, and telling them "between 7000 to 10000 gold per mile" probably won't go over well.

# ? Feb 3, 2015 22:04

Hwurmp: May 20, 2005

If they're not skeleton workers I don't think we could help you

# ? Feb 3, 2015 22:05

goatface: Dec 5, 2007; I had a video of that when I was about 6.

I remember it being shit.; Grimey Drawer

eatenmyeyes posted:

How much does it cost to build roads? How many workers and how many days? I can't ripoff the Lords' Alliance and the Zhentarim if I don't know, and telling them "between 7000 to 10000 gold per mile" probably won't go over well.

With or without magic? Do you want good roads or just decently level tracks?

# ? Feb 3, 2015 22:06

Sieje: Jun 29, 2004; My doctor says that I have a malformed public-duty gland and a natural deficiency in moral fibre and that I am therefore excused from saving universes.

BatteredFeltFedora posted:

Note that those bonuses are only to your passive scores - they won't help when you're actively rolling for what you're doing, only when the DM feels like there's information there for you to notice. Which may not jive with your idea of same.

DMing, I have to say, the passive bonus to Investigate is tough to figure out how to adjudicate. Have a Rogue in the group who has it, and with his specialization and all, his passive Investigate is 21. Most of the time, when he's in the group there's no need to roll for any investigative thing, and when there is, he's worse at it than the Warlock and Cleric (though that often comes down to bad dice rolls). Its a case of wanting him to use his feat and be challenging about it at the same time, and the passive part just screws with that as it tends to come down to noticing everything, or noticing nothing, rather than leading to teamwork and wild PC speculation.

# ? Feb 3, 2015 22:07

ocrumsprug: Sep 23, 2010; by LITERALLY AN ADMIN

ActusRhesus posted:

our 3.5 Ranger player was a monster once she realized how to play her class. I haven't looked at the 5.0 ranger rules, but is it really that bad?

Mechanically it appears to have less going for it than a Champion Fighter, which is kind of an eye-opener when you think about it.

It's actual Ranger mechanics feel more like fluff than abilities, since they describe a benefit for something that is generally happening in narrative time. Maybe there are groups that go into great in depth detail about their journey from A->B, and how they got lost for 1.4 days less than they would have because of the groups Ranger. (I am assuming that the DMG describes how a party can get lost via magical and mundane means.)

I cannot multiclass into a Bard fast enough as the combat this edition* is dull as hell. At least as I will have a reason to not bother engaging with it if I am a not playing a front line fighting man.

* tbh, I suspect I would have a similar reaction if I sat at a 3.5 table again too.

# ? Feb 3, 2015 22:10

ActusRhesus: Sep 18, 2007; "Perhaps the fact the defendant had to be dragged out of the courtroom while declaring 'Death to you all, a Jihad on the court' may have had something to do with the revocation of his bond. That or calling the judge a bald-headed cock-sucker. Either way."

BatteredFeltFedora posted:

Note that those bonuses are only to your passive scores - they won't help when you're actively rolling for what you're doing, only when the DM feels like there's information there for you to notice. Which may not jive with your idea of same.

Actor was suggested earlier if you'll be doing the disguise thing, and that was a big part of Locke Lamora, for example. Also a +1 to Charisma for your social skills can be a big help.

I have no idea how you "passively investigate." that seems like pretty awful writing.

# ? Feb 3, 2015 22:11

The Crotch: Oct 16, 2012; by Nyc_Tattoo

ActusRhesus posted:

hmm...in our 3.5 game we played around with feats and such that gave her a butt ton of extra arrows, plus some stuff that let her send her animal to bite people in the crotch in the same turn. (And I cheated somewhat and gently steered her towards choosing "preferred foes" that I knew she'd be seeing a lot of.) Honestly, the most underwhelming player in our group was the sorcerer because she had no idea how to play her class and was expecting to be able to do 500 points of damage as a level 2.

I'm not in love with the elimination of feats, as that was always a really fun way to get more character customization. First thought looking through rule book: "What? no feats?"

I guess I'll expand on the ranger a bit.

When I first looked at it, I was pleasantly surprised to see that they weren't putting as much emphasis on favoured enemies as they did in 3.5. I never really cared for the "hey DM please give me one fight against orcs per day so I can use my class features" business (or what usually ended up happening, "hey ranger player please choose from this list of favoured enemies because this module doesn't have any loving aboleths why would you think it does God drat"), and I figured that removing the attack and damage bonuses would give WotC room to add more to the rangers since they didn''t have so much of their power tied up in a finicky attack power.

But... then they didn't. They have such fantastic abilities as "burn your spells to know if potentially hostile or friendly or ambivalent (you don't really know which) creatures of unknown quantity exist in your general area". Or "+10 to stealth while sitting perfectly still for a minute" at the same level their robe-wearing buddy is mind controlling people and teleporting the party around the world. Their epic capstone is, once again, a lovely version of the favoured enemy attack/damage bonus that I was briefly happy to see didn't show up at level 1.

They have two archetypes, one focused on animal companions and one on weapon use. If you're a beastmaster, you have to use your attacks to get your animal to attack, which means you can't actually attack on the same turn as your animal until level 5 when you're merely burning half of your attacks to get it to fight. Weapon-focused hunters have it a bit better, so long as they avoid trap options like Giant Killer, but none of it really impresses except for level 11's Volley.

So that leaves... spells. Which, hey, spells are handy, and you get them at level 2. They're kinda weird about forcing concentration onto one-shot powers for no reason other than making drat sure you don't ever take both hunter's mark and hail of thorns, but at least they're nice enough to give you something to do with your bonus actions. There are some nice picks in there but then there's also "you can teleport ten levels after the wizard started dimension dooring" so it's kind of a mish-mash.

The Crotch fucked around with this message at 22:17 on Feb 3, 2015

# ? Feb 3, 2015 22:14

Name Change: Oct 9, 2005

ActusRhesus posted:

I have no idea how you "passively investigate." that seems like pretty awful writing.

The basic setup for investigating/looking for hidden things prior to 3E was that the GM makes you roll on command. A passive Perception/Insight score was set up in 4E so that the GM could have monsters roll Stealth/Bluff without telling you and actually surprise you, and cut down on his own rolling when you make your own Stealth/Bluff checks.

# ? Feb 3, 2015 22:15

ActusRhesus: Sep 18, 2007; "Perhaps the fact the defendant had to be dragged out of the courtroom while declaring 'Death to you all, a Jihad on the court' may have had something to do with the revocation of his bond. That or calling the judge a bald-headed cock-sucker. Either way."

OneThousandMonkeys posted:

The basic setup for investigating/looking for hidden things prior to 3E was that the GM makes you roll on command. A passive Perception/Insight score was set up in 4E so that the GM could have monsters roll Stealth/Bluff without telling you and actually surprise you, and cut down on his own rolling when you make your own Stealth/Bluff checks.

right. I get how it works for perception...perceiving is somewhat passive by nature. But investigation seems to require more conscious effort. How do you "passively investigate?"

# ? Feb 3, 2015 22:17

eatenmyeyes: Mar 29, 2001; Grimey Drawer

goatface posted:

With or without magic? Do you want good roads or just decently level tracks?

I calculated it using Move Earth and it was pretty pricy. Is there a better spell? I read some materials about Roman road building (paved) and some guides from the department of agriculture (for dirt roads) and the 7k to 10k estimate was for dirt.

# ? Feb 3, 2015 22:18

goatface: Dec 5, 2007; I had a video of that when I was about 6.

I remember it being shit.; Grimey Drawer

eatenmyeyes posted:

How much does it cost to build roads? How many workers and how many days? I can't ripoff the Lords' Alliance and the Zhentarim if I don't know, and telling them "between 7000 to 10000 gold per mile" probably won't go over well.

Romans (supposedly) did a yard and a bit per man per day, lets round that to a yard. Building a mile thus costs 1760 man-days. A skilled labourer, which you are obviously using if you're building that fast, costs 2 gp a day. So 3520 gp per mile in wages. Add in costs for material and your profit on the top, you could probably argue it as 7-10 kgp/mile.

# ? Feb 3, 2015 22:22

ProfessorCirno: Feb 17, 2011; The strongest! The smartest!
The rightest!

The last four pages have been such a nostalgic blast from the past. 2005 here we come!

# ? Feb 3, 2015 22:24

Lemniscate Blue: Apr 21, 2006; Here we go again.

ActusRhesus posted:

right. I get how it works for perception...perceiving is somewhat passive by nature. But investigation seems to require more conscious effort. How do you "passively investigate?"

If you ask the D&D devs the answer you will get is honestly "DM's call".

# ? Feb 3, 2015 22:24

Andrast: Apr 21, 2010

ProfessorCirno posted:

The last four pages have been such a nostalgic blast from the past. 2005 here we come!

Isn't most of the thread like that?

# ? Feb 3, 2015 22:25

ProfessorCirno: Feb 17, 2011; The strongest! The smartest!
The rightest!

Andrast posted:

Isn't most of the thread like that?

This has been the most solidly 3.x I've seen the discussions around here get.

# ? Feb 3, 2015 22:30

theironjef: Aug 11, 2009; The archmage of unexpected stinks.

goatface posted:

Romans (supposedly) did a yard and a bit per man per day, lets round that to a yard. Building a mile thus costs 1760 man-days. A skilled labourer, which you are obviously using if you're building that fast, costs 2 gp a day. So 3520 gp per mile in wages. Add in costs for material and your profit on the top, you could probably argue it as 7-10 kgp/mile.

Or you could cast Build Road and obviate all these skilled laborer shenanigans.

Wait how much to just have a bunch of skeletons lay down and serve as a road that can also get up to be an army later.

# ? Feb 3, 2015 22:30

goatface: Dec 5, 2007; I had a video of that when I was about 6.

I remember it being shit.; Grimey Drawer

theironjef posted:

Or you could cast Build Road and obviate all these skilled laborer shenanigans.

Wait how much to just have a bunch of skeletons lay down and serve as a road that can also get up to be an army later.

Employing the one piss-wizard for the few days it would take would probably cost more.

# ? Feb 3, 2015 22:34

The Crotch: Oct 16, 2012; by Nyc_Tattoo

Hire a normal labour force, kill them, pay the wizard in skeleton material.

# ? Feb 3, 2015 22:37

goatface: Dec 5, 2007; I had a video of that when I was about 6.

I remember it being shit.; Grimey Drawer

Dear Legal Advice,

If you animate a skeleton, and it turns out that skeleton was from a murdered dude, does that count as receiving stolen goods? I'm already on my second strike for theft.

Yours in g-d,

The Dark Lord Jeff

# ? Feb 3, 2015 22:44

Glazius: Jul 22, 2007; Hail all those who are able,
any mouse can,
any mouse will,
but the Guard prevail.; Clapping Larry

ActusRhesus posted:

right. I get how it works for perception...perceiving is somewhat passive by nature. But investigation seems to require more conscious effort. How do you "passively investigate?"

"passive" is kind of the new "take 10"?

Which, yes, doesn't make a lot of sense for Investigation, since Search was more of a "take 20" skill .

# ? Feb 3, 2015 22:47

theironjef: Aug 11, 2009; The archmage of unexpected stinks.

goatface posted:

Dear Legal Advice,

If you animate a skeleton, and it turns out that skeleton was from a murdered dude, does that count as receiving stolen goods? I'm already on my second strike for theft.

Yours in g-d,

The Dark Lord Jeff

The lawyer said you're probably cool, but his barrister wig did clip right through his briefcase, so move forward accordingly.

# ? Feb 3, 2015 22:47

Dirk the Average: Feb 7, 2012; "This may have been a mistake."

ActusRhesus posted:

right. I get how it works for perception...perceiving is somewhat passive by nature. But investigation seems to require more conscious effort. How do you "passively investigate?"

I think the idea is that it's how much the guard notices by the default of being a guard and doing guard-type things, as opposed to a high stress situation where a guard is on high alert and actively looking for things, to the benefit or detriment of his or her results. For instance, a guard at a checkpoint on a normal day will behave very differently than a guard at a checkpoint when the king is visiting or when an attack is immenent.

They're both investigating and examining people passing through the checkpoint, but one is doing so actively while the other is doing it routinely.

# ? Feb 3, 2015 22:50

Small Strange Bird: Sep 22, 2006; Merci, chaton!

ActusRhesus posted:

How do you "passively investigate?"

I now want to create a 5e detective who just sits around and waits for the clues to fall into his lap. Kind of a fantasy Jason King.

Actually, Fantasy Jason King is such a brilliant concept I might create him anyway. What class would be best for a louche alcoholic playboy who always wins fights despite being hopeless at fighting?

# ? Feb 3, 2015 22:53

ocrumsprug: Sep 23, 2010; by LITERALLY AN ADMIN

I may be giving more credit than deserved...

It is likely an added concept to have to party notice the critical plot item when they didn't think to mention that they searched that rubbish pile over there.

# ? Feb 3, 2015 22:55

Littlefinger: Oct 13, 2012

Payndz posted:

always wins fights despite being hopeless at fighting?

Sounds like a wizard.

# ? Feb 3, 2015 22:56

ImpactVector: Feb 24, 2007; HAHAHAHA FOOLS!!
I AM SO SMART!

Uh oh. What did he do now?; Nap Ghost

Is passive Investigation actually a thing? I don't have my book handy, but I'm like 95% sure Observant gives passive Insight, which makes a ton more sense. Or is there some other feature/feat we're talking about?

Also, Observant on a rogue is kinda fluffy but seems kinda meh unless your Wis is odd to start with. In which case it might be worth the stat point, since you're still ending up with +1 to those important perception rolls.

But at the same time you're not doing anything for the skills/abilities that actually let you accomplish things (Dex and I guess Cha if you're serious about the con artist thing).

And if your DM is anything like mine, it's perception checks all the way down. I don't think he pays any attention to passive perception.

# ? Feb 3, 2015 23:13

Laphroaig: Feb 6, 2004; Drinking Smoke; Dinosaur Gum

ProfessorCirno posted:

This has been the most solidly 3.x I've seen the discussions around here get.

Oh man that reminds me of some excellent Adventure Advice this guy had for running a D&D Next campaign:

September 2014
http://projectmultiplexer.com/2014/09/07/on-the-unloading-a-pair-of-magic-boots-and-troubles-therein/

3.X As gently caress posted:

While killing an ogre for the local Baron for a quick pickup of 100gp, the party offs the ogre�s buddy, a nasty little goblin. This guy was a real jerk. Once he was good and dead � the fighter stabbed the goblin extra for good measure � the party did what adventuring parties do. They rolled the bodies. Among the handfuls of copper pieces, a few unusable weapons and a convenient cache of crossbow bolts, the party discovers the goblin was wearing a pair of Boots of Striding and Springing.

For whatever reason, the party decides it doesn�t want to keep the boots. Perhaps it is a matter of taste. The style is out of fashion. The size is too small. Also, as magic items go, boots of striding and springing are on the low-end of the interesting scale. Regardless, the party takes the boots to the nearby peaceful peasant market town to unload them as one does with unused magic items.

The local cordwainer won�t accept the boots of striding and springing. The cordwainer, a member of the local shoemaker�s guild in good standing, doesn�t recognize the boots as magic but he does recognize them as a different make than other boots made in the region. Good quality, good make, but they�re not his nor one of his fellow guildmates so he cannot resell them. He is not authorized to buy and sell foreign goods and if they�re left in his shop, he�ll get found out by the guild for hoarding strange makes of highly unauthorized footwear. There�s a price list. He likes being part of the guild, see. They help him and his family out when he�s down. His father was part of this guild. His grandfather was a grandmaster of the cordwainers of the peaceful peasant village. And he doesn�t want any trouble. Besides, he only pays in script and not in coinage. The party needs to move along.

The local merchant doesn�t recognize the boots, either, but he recognizes them as magic immediately on inspecting them on the counter in his small shop. The wizard�s craft mark is on the inner sole. See that right there? These are wizarding shoes. Great magic in wizarding shoes. The merchant�s guild in this region isn�t permitted in its charter to resell strange, foreign wizarding shoes. They banged this charter out so the merchant can sell commodity goods here and the Baron stays over there where the town would like them and the Baron, well, he takes interest in these sorts of things. Maybe the party took them off a wizard? That�s a problem right there, too. The merchant can�t pay for strange foreign wizarding things in his shop. Brings nothing but trouble. Besides, the town mostly works on script, ledgers, loaning and mutual debt. The merchant can only pay in Bob the Baker�s bread. Do you like bread? Bob�s bread? Fantastic.

Forcing the merchant to accept the boots unearths the hard reality that the Merchant�s Guild of the town is also the Judge�s Guild, the local Mafioso Guild, and the Government Guild. This merchant? He�s also the Mayor. And the Head Judge. The merchant will call in his friends and his friends will make sure the party doesn�t sell no weird, foreign, and possibly evil wizarding shoes in this town. We won�t kill you right here and now because of the ogre business but maybe it�s time to go. The locals are not much when it comes to fighting but leaving an entire town murdered over a pair of boots � there�s a slippery slope to neutral evilhood. The party�s cleric might be irked.

Getting the local Baron involved brings up all kinds of ugly questions like: �Why are the lower folk walking around with a pair of magic boots?� And then the magic boots will belong to the Baron because he needs to go on campaign and he doesn�t have magic boots. Now he does. Yours. Not a great plan. Great guy until someone shows up with some magic items and then not such a nice guy any more.

Barding up the merchant or pulling out some merchant background can get a bit of �I know a guy who knows a guy who knows a guy.� Maybe there�s something the merchant needs for a bit of favor. Besides, the guy trades in favors all day. The local merchant is not of any help but there might be an upstream reseller. Here�s a bit of a written introduction and a rough schedule for a Faire that moves around a number of cities. Nomenally that faire sells cloth but an entrepreneaur can unload a pair of boots if the buyer is right and the place is right and the money is right.

Calling down on God or Gods is a thing that works because if there is anything a merchant needs, it�s a blessing to help him move those more mundane items in his shop. But he still doesn�t handle foreign magic goods and he can only pay in what he owes to other townspeople.

Cutting the inner soles out of the boots to remove the wizard�s mark and leaving them with the local non-guild affiliated peddler with his jingle jangle wagon of assorted goods for a few copper will get rid of them quick but these boots are worth some serious scratch. Always an option but no adventuring party is going to get rich off filing the serial numbers off magic items and unloading them on movable consignment stores.

No one in the town is going to buy the boots the local head cleric explains to the party on their way (hopefully) out of town. And no one wants them. These are good people. Godly people. People who tithe regularly to their local Temple. What the local head cleric, who is one of those nice guys affiliated with one of the local Gods of home and hearth, wants is the party to take the boots and leave. They will bring nothing but instability to this nice little community. If there�s anything the Gods want, its stability.

A group of towns who want to become cities situated on ancient trade roads hold a rotating open market. What it is, who hosts, and where it is held depends on the time of year. The external appearance of the Faire is selling well-known commodity goods: one week is cloth, another is spices, another leather and other durable goods. Merchants travel over incredible distances marked with the occasional Random Encounter to make it here to unload from all over the known world and over it all a rich and powerful Lord who makes it happen with the guarantees of security and law. It�s his Law but his Law is he gets his tax. As long as no one sets the entire town on fire and brings the Lord into it, he�s fine with whatever nonsense happens.

No one sells magic items in the open here, either, but the party can lay hands on some seriously upgraded pieces of mundane equipment if necessary. At night, behind the tents and in the bars, people settle their accounts and the interesting goods exchange hands.

By knowing a guy, having a letter of introduction, getting the right people drunk, surviving a few fist fights, and generally running around depraved, it�s possible to find the magic items broker. The party will bump into a bunch of other guys, too. Nothing is ever simple on the quest to unload a pair of slightly magical boots:

Someone from one of the Wizard Craft Guilds is attending the Faire looking for the same sets of background deal brokers to unload their magic items into circulation. (How else do they make their way into dungeons and random treasure tables?) The Wizard Craft Guilds aren�t like a small peaceful peasant village Shoemaker�s Guild. These are guys with money, muscle, and agents to move their merchandise. And these aren�t the Wizards themselves, of course � no self-respecting Wizard is going to come out of his tower to sell at some Faire. That would mean getting dirty. This is a broker�s broker with his own set of thugs. And they want to know why this party is selling strange, foreign magic boots with a different wizard�s mark than their Guild into circulation.

Is the party now magic boot-making competition?
Is there a collect and resell effort from foreign points going on to dilute the list prices of magic items?
Are the local wizards of the Wizard Craft Guild being scammed?
Maybe what the party needs is a visit from the broker�s local group of armed friends, in the cover of darkness, behind the bar. Because while the party may not have to go, the boots certainly do.

The black market gets whiff there�s some action in the magic items area and, unlike the rubes back home, these are guys who know how to move magic items and get them into the hands of discerning dealers. Sure the party might be running from the thugs behind the Wizards Craft Guild but here�s a friend � really! a friend! � who only wants to get the best price for the boots for his quiet, discerning client. This is safe. This is clean. No Guilds involved at all except for Ours but you don�t need to know about that. This will move the boots and sell them to a discrete buyer. The Necromatic Arch Lich and his Legions of Terrifying Evil who simply need high quality footwear as they trample on the necks of the local populance. You know how it is.

Running amok away from the thieves�s guild and the wizard craft guild, the party draws the attention of the local Merchant�s Guild who both try to turn a blind eye to all sorts of shenanigans but if inns start getting burnt to the ground, they�re both going to get wary. Luckily for the party, the local Merchant�s Guild is on a whole different playing field than the local Merchant�s Guild of the small town. These guys finance entire armies for rich patrons. They have their own set of mercantile laws that have nothing whatsoever to do with local Law, or the Lord�s Law, or laws from the local Temple. These guys are judge, jury, executioner, and the entire local government. We leave that for now, because the Merchant�s Guild wants to see if the party lives. If they do, there might be something in it for them.

And after lighting some bar on fire while running out, the party hooks up with their guy. They have wizard guild thugs after them. Black market mafia thugs after them after breaking their deal to sell the boots. They got beer all over their new leathers. Letters of introduction are exchanged. In a room in quite another inn across town, the magic item broker looks at the boots, looks at the wizards mark in the sole, and he tells you his fee for moving the boots is 37%. At a list price of 5500gp, he�s going to take a little over 2000gp from the party for the price of taking those boots off the party�s hands. Good magic item laundering service is expensive.

In a time of craft guilds, merchant guilds, organizational guilds, nobility, and wizards in towers protected by armies of thugs, it�s hard to move foreign merchandise. No one wants to accept the risk of explaining where the item came from. And all the rich guilds have their form of muscle and protection. This is all to say, one can get mileage out of a pair of boots rolled off a dead goblin. And maybe in the end it is easiest just to pull the soles and unload them on the peddler. It�s cheaper that way.

The Faire is based on the Champagne Faires, a thing that happened before the rise of the Hanseatic League and a tribute to the absolute determination, in the face of Kings and Guilds, to turn a buck.

Also:

ActusRhesus posted:

Also, I was looking for a little more than "write rogue on character sheet. Pick assassin." Skill expertise? Feat Selection? Benefits to one race vs. another? I get it, this game isn't as micro-managey as 3.5 was. But I was looking for some practical advice from people who have actually played the class, not "hey the rule book says assassin gets to use disguises so pick that." I can read.

OK here is the second result I got on google, it looks like its got exactly what you want: http://www.dungeonsampdragons.com/bounded-advantage/2014/07/13/how-to-build-a-rogue/

I have read all of this post and verified the math the dude-man is using. the explanation of tactics, equipment, skills and races is on point.

The practical advice we were trying to give you is that rogue, in play, doesn't feel right.

You find yourself being overshadowed with skills by a Bard; you find yourself being overshadowed in combat by any class that gets multiple attacks. Its just not that great. I liked the Playtest rogue more. Simply put I just don't find the current rogue that compelling and everything it does, some other class can do better. If you want to write "Rogue" on your character sheet, and want advice on how to do that while playing the concept of the rogue, its a class based game. You made the largest and most important choice, class, already. The rest is window dressing. Take DEX CHA. Take skills you like. Make sure to put Expertise in stuff you want to have a higher roll with. Keep in mind that rolling high has little meaning because skills don't do more stuff with higher rolls.

Laphroaig fucked around with this message at 23:30 on Feb 3, 2015

# ? Feb 3, 2015 23:17

goatface: Dec 5, 2007; I had a video of that when I was about 6.

I remember it being shit.; Grimey Drawer

ImpactVector posted:

Is passive Investigation actually a thing? I don't have my book handy, but I'm like 95% sure Observant gives passive Insight, which makes a ton more sense. Or is there some other feature/feat we're talking about?

It says passive Investigation.

# ? Feb 3, 2015 23:21

ImpactVector: Feb 24, 2007; HAHAHAHA FOOLS!!
I AM SO SMART!

Uh oh. What did he do now?; Nap Ghost

goatface posted:

It says passive Investigation.

Welp. My bad then. Also that's really dumb.

I still stand by the rest of what I wrote though. I only took it on my Druid because my Wis was 17, it was my only odd stat, and it's the only +1 Wis feat in the book.

# ? Feb 3, 2015 23:29

IT BEGINS: Jan 15, 2009; I don't know how to make analogies

ImpactVector posted:

Welp. My bad then. Also that's really dumb.

Maybe, but I think it makes sense in terms of flavor - being observant doesn't generally mean you're better at sensing a bluff. It is pretty weak mechanically - I don't think I've ever head of anyone rolling passive Investigation, and the example the book gives isn't particularly helpful (repeatedly searching for something, which feels more like a take 20 to me).

# ? Feb 3, 2015 23:38

Toph Bei Fong: Feb 29, 2008

Laphroaig posted:

Oh man that reminds me of some excellent Adventure Advice this guy had for running a D&D Next campaign:

September 2014
http://projectmultiplexer.com/2014/09/07/on-the-unloading-a-pair-of-magic-boots-and-troubles-therein/

I wonder if this dude gets huffy if someone says "Alright, gently caress it. I'll just stick the boots in the bottom of my duffel bag until we reach a chasm or something, Jerry, god."

# ? Feb 3, 2015 23:53

Hwurmp: May 20, 2005

Laphroaig posted:

Oh man that reminds me of some excellent Adventure Advice this guy had for running a D&D Next campaign:

September 2014
http://projectmultiplexer.com/2014/09/07/on-the-unloading-a-pair-of-magic-boots-and-troubles-therein/

They should have traded the boots for some mustard.

# ? Feb 3, 2015 23:58

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# ? May 14, 2024 00:50

Kitchner: Nov 9, 2012; IT CAN'T BE BARGAINED WITH.
IT CAN'T BE REASONED WITH.
IT DOESN'T FEEL PITY, OR REMORSE, OR FEAR.
AND IT ABSOLUTELY WILL NOT STOP, EVER, UNTIL YOU ADMIT YOU'RE WRONG ABOUT WARHAMMER; Clapping Larry

I'd guess passive investigation is like when Sherlock Holme just takes one glance at a man and then tells Watson how it's obvious that the fella is an ex merchant navy seaman who has recently come into hard times so has started selling opium but still takes the time to visit his hospitalised grandmother at least once a week.

# ? Feb 3, 2015 23:59

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