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Impermanent posted:Also, while some people house rule board games, it is overwhelmingly not something the majority of people do. I have to disagree here. Everyone knows how to play Monopoly but I don't know a single person who plays it RAW. But if we look beyond the Wal-Mart aisle, I think fiddly deck building games probably get rules drifted the most. Either to remove game breaking or lovely cards from the game, or to avoid previously played combinations.
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Feb 3, 2015 22:23
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I think at this point we can, at least, rather solidly agree that not even WotC's PR department knows the D&D team exists. Edit: PFfffffffffHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! And of course ENWorld immediately makes a thread desperately trying to go "No see look at all these other women working for D&D outside of the dev team!" I'm wrong, the D&D team department have a PR team. It just exists in ENWorld. Edit 2: It's immediately overrun with people whining "why do we even CARE if women work there?!" with one gerbergater complaining about people even talking about gender and striking off to make transphobic remarks, followed by others going straight for  because they're tired of "feeling bad because I'm male even though I never did anything."It is the community Mike Mearls truly deserves. ProfessorCirno fucked around with this message at 22:36 on Feb 3, 2015 |
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Feb 3, 2015 22:25
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I don't know why everyone's mad about Mearls responding to 'there's no women on your game design side of things' with 'THERE ARE WOMEN IN ART THOUGH'. I think it's cool that Mearls is being open about not understanding what game design is, maybe now that he admitted his problem he can get help.
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Feb 3, 2015 22:49
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It is so weird to me that Mearls' team and the Magic design team work for the same company.
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Feb 3, 2015 23:07
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Mors Rattus posted:It is so weird to me that Mearls' team and the Magic design team work for the same company. It makes perfect sense that Mearls has the team he does because everyone else is being put on Magic.
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Feb 3, 2015 23:10
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To be clear, the person in question who was dropped was Jennifer Clarke Wilkes, who's a veteran editor who had worked at WotC for about two decades. It's disappointing to see, but dropping talented people is such a perennial WotC blunder I can't be shocked anymore. This is company that fired Lisa Stevens, after all, and she practically built that company... And we all know how well that turned out for them. WotC has been trashing their best RPG talent regularly since the buyout and this just strikes me as business as usual.
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Feb 3, 2015 23:14
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The problem isn't just "WotC fired the last woman working on the dev team," it was Mearls' belligerent reaction. "We actually do have a number of women working for other parts of the D&D team who don't get the recognition they deserve, but I agree that we need more female devs." How loving hard is that? What he did instead was the equivalent of "I'M not the racist, YOU are!" That his #1 fans on ENWorld tried to leap to his defense only to get swamped with "loving SJWs," , and transphobic commentary, only makes the thing go from sadly expected to outright mockable.
ProfessorCirno fucked around with this message at 23:25 on Feb 3, 2015 |
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Feb 3, 2015 23:22
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Yeah. I can't claim to know the circumstances of her exit, but Mearls' response was remarkably unprofessional.
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Feb 3, 2015 23:30
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gradenko_2000 posted:It makes perfect sense that Mearls has the team he does because everyone else is being put on Magic. I suppose. It's just, you know, on the one hand, this. And on the other, MtG has a transwoman on the Design team and just released a story about the first canon transwoman like four days ago. Five, maybe?
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Feb 3, 2015 23:31
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Alien Rope Burn posted:This is company that fired Lisa Stevens, after all, and she practically built that company... And we all know how well that turned out for them. I haven't heard this line before. What are her accomplishments compared to Richard Garfield and Peter Adkison? Not being snarky, serious question.
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Feb 4, 2015 00:28
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Essentially: Lisa was hired to do business-end stuff, and did really well with roleplaying games, which WotC originally produced, but wasn't very good with cards or Magic, which, well, became the focus. (I believe Mark Rosewater's mentioned specifically art direction and how, while she was a great person and amazing at roleplaying games, she wasn't able to communicate their art needs for the cards well and he had to go back and fix stuff for her a lot.) She was let go long before D&D became WotC's. I am fairly certain it was an amicable parting of ways due to company direction at the time - other than that story, Mark Rosewater's had nothing but nice things to say.
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Feb 4, 2015 00:38
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Care to educate me further? I mean, I love Talislanta and Everway more than the next guy, but can we justify "Lisa Stevens built WotC"? Again, not trying to be dickish, I've just never heard this before.
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Feb 4, 2015 00:57
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Mors Rattus posted:She was let go long before D&D became WotC's. Stevens left in 2000; TSR was purchased in 1997. 3rd edition came out in 2000, but I don't know if she had a hand in that.
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Feb 4, 2015 01:00
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Alien Rope Burn posted:Yeah. I can't claim to know the circumstances of her exit, but Mearls' response was remarkably unprofessional.
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Feb 4, 2015 01:18
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MartianAgitator posted:Care to educate me further? I mean, I love Talislanta and Everway more than the next guy, but can we justify "Lisa Stevens built WotC"? Again, not trying to be dickish, I've just never heard this before. Well, at the very least, Wizards of the Coast wouldn't have gotten off the ground without her. (The same is probably also true of White Wolf, but that's another story.) Adkison was the creative drive behind WotC, to be sure, but Stevens was the one that got them their first game line (Talislanta) that put them on the map and actually made money,. She was also responsible for getting a lot of the early WotC authors (including a certain Mr. Tweet), as well. But ultimately it was her financial and marketing hard work that kept the company alive when by no means should it have financially survived when practically everything it did was causing it to leak money. While the company wouldn't have been created without Adkison, it never would have survived without Stevens. Though she's not a designer, she's probably the most important person alive in the business of RPGs. White Wolf, Wizards of the Coast, and Paizo all wouldn't exist - or at least exist in their current form - without her influence. Guilty Spork posted:If someone at McGraw-Hill decided that for the new edition of their American history textbook what they really needed was to get Glenn Beck and Mark Levin's opinions, I wouldn't exactly hold the editor behind that in high esteem. I'm sure you could find lots of other things to try and pin on her for in two decades of work with WotC, but I don't see any evidence to blame her for that. Like, you could point out that she was Senior RPG Editor for the whole 4e run, and we all know how disastrous that was.  Mors Rattus posted:I am fairly certain it was an amicable parting of ways due to company direction at the time - other than that story, Mark Rosewater's had nothing but nice things to say. Well, she was certainly laid off; it wasn't her choice. That being said, there was definitely tension between her and Adkison at that point, and she was still able to spin the situation into taking over the D&D magazines, which... worked out pretty drat well for her, despite some rocky times in the mid-2000s.
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Feb 4, 2015 02:56
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She was explicitly a part of the TSR purchase as I recall, and one of the leading figures who made WotC an actual business of professionals; for awhile it was exactly what you would expect from a company of nerds who made it big, with all the negatives that would imply.
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Feb 4, 2015 03:08
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Alien Rope Burn posted:I'm sure you could find lots of other things to try and pin on her for in two decades of work with WotC, but I don't see any evidence to blame her for that. Like, you could point out that she was Senior RPG Editor for the whole 4e run, and we all know how disastrous that was.
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Feb 4, 2015 03:21
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ProfessorCirno posted:She was explicitly a part of the TSR purchase as I recall, and one of the leading figures who made WotC an actual business of professionals; for awhile it was exactly what you would expect from a company of nerds who made it big, with all the negatives that would imply. Those who need some elucidation on this may want to read John Tynes' Death to the Minotaur if you haven't already.
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Feb 4, 2015 03:24
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Mors Rattus posted:I suppose. It's just, you know, on the one hand, this. And on the other, MtG has a transwoman on the Design team and just released a story about the first canon transwoman like four days ago. Five, maybe? I knew about Alesha, but didn't know there was a trans person in design. Who is it, if it's not rude to ask?
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Feb 4, 2015 03:30
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ProfessorCirno posted:That his #1 fans on ENWorld tried to leap to his defense only to get swamped with "loving SJWs," * slides grognards.txt back across the table *
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Feb 4, 2015 04:05
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Completely unrelated to the topic at hand, but I just finally got my hands on a copy of Dogs in the Vineyard, and it looks rad as gently caress. I am probably never going to convince anyone to play it with me.
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Feb 4, 2015 04:21
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Ettin posted:* slides grognards.txt back across the table * DO IT. Or else where am I going to find a home for quotes like this: quote:He all but calls me a liar, changes his story in every post, and I get a warning? Well, now that I have the documentation of how moderators protect trolls that I cam for, I'm outta here. Enjoy your little urine soaked sandbox with all the other little children, kiddo. You (collectively, that is, the moderators) are the reason rpg.net is a shithole.
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Feb 4, 2015 04:27
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whydirt posted:I knew about Alesha, but didn't know there was a trans person in design. Who is it, if it's not rude to ask? It's total hearsay, but I understand she's one of the first Great Designer Search winners.
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Feb 4, 2015 04:44
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Ettin posted:* slides grognards.txt back across the table * See what happens when you lock that thread? The poo poo leaks everywhere.
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Feb 4, 2015 04:47
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Emong posted:Completely unrelated to the topic at hand, but I just finally got my hands on a copy of Dogs in the Vineyard, and it looks rad as gently caress. I just ordered monster of the week from evil hat. It looks cool too!
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Feb 4, 2015 07:19
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oh my god why did i read that enworld thread you were doing SO WELL chat thread i was so full of joy, buoyed by msw's tales of super the milk shayk and super gangster rand brittain teaming up to explore the underground world of illegal "chubbo racing" (better known as "chubbin' ") and stop some kind of horrible bargain bin vin diesel-led chubpocalypse in time to come home and pump out an advice column and then these garbagechans happened can we just burn down the hobby and carve out some kind of horrible storygame queermo fiefdom atop its ashes Mors Rattus posted:It's total hearsay, but I understand she's one of the first Great Designer Search winners. setting aside how it's kind of weird and maybe Not Yr Business for some rando to immediately go OMG WHO IS IT on hearing there's a trans person on the mtg design team, uh maaaaaaybe this is not the most appropriate place to share rumours about how someone working in a company adjacent to a hobby that chews up and spits out trans women is totes a trans woman
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Feb 4, 2015 09:29
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Ningyou posted:can we just burn down the hobby and carve out some kind of horrible storygame queermo fiefdom atop its ashes Play hex-and-counter wargames instead. No grogs there. I think. I hope. Oh god please god no.
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Feb 4, 2015 09:37
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i can't tell if you're being facetious about the grogs or no  Ningyou fucked around with this message at 10:33 on Feb 4, 2015 |
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Feb 4, 2015 09:56
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There are somethings that cannot be burned to the ground, but rather co-opted from within, like a leaf of grass pushing up through the cracked concrete. The cracked concrete in this metaphor is D&D's reputation. In semi-related news, Avery McDaldno is setting up an indy games retreat in Seattle this May, which seems neat and worth looking into if that's your sort of thing.
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Feb 4, 2015 10:05
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gradenko_2000 posted:Play hex-and-counter wargames instead. No grogs there. I think. I hope. Oh god please god no. Um. You know where the term comes from, right? Because it comes from wargaming.
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Feb 4, 2015 10:12
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Destroy all grogs, because they harass people, make them afraid and want to quit their hobbies. That is all.
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Feb 4, 2015 10:16
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Alien Rope Burn posted:Um. Yes I know the origin of the word but it's not like Jim Dunnigan ever bitched about SJWs or people cling desperately to The Russian Campaign because of some bullshit about disassociated mechanics or that Volko Ruhnke's next COIN game is going to be a four-way battle between L G B and T.
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Feb 4, 2015 10:19
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Grognard has a different meaning in the world of board wargames, the more innocent, original meaning in which it was more about good-natured grumbling about the games rather than any other motive. Also, considering the fact that a lot of people nowadays within the board wargaming community positively embrace the changes that have been brought about in our current Golden Era of Wargaming, you will be hard-pressed to find a grognard that will earnestly say that wargames of old are better than the current offerings.
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Feb 4, 2015 11:41
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Why is this hobby so toxic, and, short of shooting everybody who's ever rolled a dice or pretended to be an elf, how do we fix it? Serious question.
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Feb 4, 2015 12:11
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The Deleter posted:Why is this hobby so toxic, and, short of shooting everybody who's ever rolled a dice or pretended to be an elf, how do we fix it? Serious question.
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Feb 4, 2015 12:56
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Ettin posted:* slides grognards.txt back across the table * [grover voice] Post poo poo, don't poo poo post! [/grover voice]
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Feb 4, 2015 13:02
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Of all the nerd hobbies, probably the least toxic I've seen out there is boardgaming. Sure, it does have it share of problems now and again (f.ex. the popularity of Kingdom Death), but overall it is probably the most inclusive nerd-hobby that I've ever been in, especially considering the sort of public meetups that I regularly go to, which feature all sort of people from all walks of life.
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Feb 4, 2015 13:06
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Tekopo posted:Of all the nerd hobbies, probably the least toxic I've seen out there is boardgaming. Sure, it does have it share of problems now and again (f.ex. the popularity of Kingdom Death), but overall it is probably the most inclusive nerd-hobby that I've ever been in, especially considering the sort of public meetups that I regularly go to, which feature all sort of people from all walks of life.
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Feb 4, 2015 13:13
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Plague of Hats posted:[grover voice] I'll allow it for now but if people are posting new threads I would prefer they post them on new and cool topics like, I don't know, 5E character/newbie advice or something.
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Feb 4, 2015 13:22
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There is no such thing as a cool topic related to tradgaming though?
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Feb 4, 2015 13:26
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