|
Jarmak posted:It was an example of when the police pick and choose what laws they're going to enforce I would say it's more an example of what they did to enforce what they wished were still laws.
|
#
?
Feb 3, 2015 23:13
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 4, 2024 18:03 |
|
|
RaySmuckles posted:I know this is from further back, but THIS. My gf is a social worker and if you think cops have a "dangerous job," look up "case management" in community mental health (she's been subsequently promoted and is in a different aspect of community mental health now). This is an ENTRY level position in the field so you get fresh college students who then have to use their own cars to ferry the absolute least desirable people around the city for hours getting them their money, get them to appointments, find them housing, get them in and out of jail/hospitals/court, etc. Thank you for this post. PostNouveau posted:On the actual police reform front, Radley Balko recently wrote up a good analysis of two bills in Georgia and Utah that aim to change how SWAT-style raids are conducted. When I went to school in SLC Utah (as a teenaged idiot) we were specifically warned NOT to drink at all, play loud music, etc. because we were in MORMON country, and cops WOULD kick down doors for small reasons. The punchline was "what kind of judge gets up to write a search warrant at 4am based on a noise complaint? A utah judge!" also the city was super creepy the way they painted over all graffiti with drab grey. everywhere. Edit: Cop who stole nude pics off arrested women’s phones gets no jail time quote:A now-former California Highway Patrol (CHP) officer who was charged with criminal felony charges after seizing and distributing racy photos copied from arrestees’ phones has pleaded no contest and will serve no jail time. Piece of garbage cop. At least the DA gave a poo poo. But not enough to give the cop anything stronger than probation. froward fucked around with this message at 00:19 on Feb 4, 2015 |
|
#
?
Feb 3, 2015 23:37
|
|
|
froward posted:Thank you for this post. how much jail time does a crime like that typically get for a first timer?
|
|
#
?
Feb 4, 2015 00:49
|
|
|
Plea bargaining for no jail time is pretty common across the entire judicial system. That isn't a cop issue, its a judicial system issue.
|
|
#
?
Feb 4, 2015 01:10
|
|
|
Normally I'm not a fan of the scarlet letter of Felony for people, but this type of abuse could only occur via a cop, so it would be entirely appropriate for him to be more harshly disciplined then what "non-LEO" people would get, unfortunately the opposite is often times true.
|
|
#
?
Feb 4, 2015 01:38
|
|
|
Powercrazy posted:Normally I'm not a fan of the scarlet letter of Felony for people, but this type of abuse could only occur via a cop, so it would be entirely appropriate for him to be more harshly disciplined then what "non-LEO" people would get, unfortunately the opposite is often times true. i dunno man, it's really easy for me to swipe a friend's cell phone and steal the poo poo on it. just because a cop has easier access by way of arrests doesn't mean it is any worse than if i do it. but it's cool to know that it's "not as bad as when a cop does it so it doesn't deserve the same punishment" if someone gets their privacy destroyed by a non-leo.
|
|
#
?
Feb 4, 2015 01:41
|
|
|
Cole posted:i dunno man, it's really easy for me to swipe a friend's cell phone and steal the poo poo on it. How about this guy? Supposed to be a mandatory felony, but since it's a cop, he's only charged with a misdemeanor. http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/nyc-crime/allegedly-assaulted-subway-worker-busted-source-article-1.2097479
|
|
#
?
Feb 4, 2015 01:48
|
|
|
RaySmuckles posted:I know this is from further back, but THIS. My gf is a social worker and if you think cops have a "dangerous job," look up "case management" in community mental health (she's been subsequently promoted and is in a different aspect of community mental health now). This is an ENTRY level position in the field so you get fresh college students who then have to use their own cars to ferry the absolute least desirable people around the city for hours getting them their money, get them to appointments, find them housing, get them in and out of jail/hospitals/court, etc. We wouldn't want to make cops feel like a bunch of dickless counselors, basically: Milwaukee Sheriff David Clarke posted:“‘Transforming local policing,’ if you will, is nothing more than a knee-jerk reaction to what went on in Ferguson, Missouri, and it’s not necessary. Look, Neil, this is a slippery slope toward federalizing local law enforcement. That’s something that the founders of this country resisted, it was talked about by the Congress after World War I. and then as recently as the 9/11 Commission report to Congress, where the issue came up and they pushed back against this idea of federalizing policing in America. We don’t have a national police force, nor do we want one because of civil liberty issues, but I think there’s something else going on here, and this is the rat I smell in all this. This is an attempt by the Justice Department to emasculate the American police officer, to turn them into social workers. There’s a reason why we don’t have social workers policing in America, and it’s because it won’t work.”
|
|
#
?
Feb 4, 2015 02:00
|
|
|
quote:"An NYPD cop has been indicted for allegedly stomping on the head of a subdued suspect in an incident that was caught on video, a source said. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0HnmMdSkJAU http://nypost.com/2015/02/03/nypd-cop-indicted-for-allegedly-stomping-on-suspects-head/
|
|
#
?
Feb 4, 2015 02:02
|
|
|
CheesyDog posted:We wouldn't want to make cops feel like a bunch of dickless counselors, basically: Man there is something so irritating about the hate for social workers....one of the most thankless jobs there is, where people get the balls to look down on them.
|
|
#
?
Feb 4, 2015 02:03
|
|
|
Spun Dog posted:How about this guy? Supposed to be a mandatory felony, but since it's a cop, he's only charged with a misdemeanor. 1) anyone who should catch a felony and gets a misdemeanor is lucky. i don't know of anyone who will be like "judge, can i have a felony instead?" 2) how is a cop responsible for a judge's decision? like i said earlier, that's an issue with the judicial system and the preferential treatment judges and attorneys give police.
|
|
#
?
Feb 4, 2015 02:14
|
|
|
Cole posted:i dunno man, it's really easy for me to swipe a friend's cell phone and steal the poo poo on it. Cops are supposed to not just obey the law, but uphold it. So yeah it's worse when they break the law. e: Shucks man, I thought we knew each other well enough to joke around. Took it out. woke wedding drone fucked around with this message at 02:26 on Feb 4, 2015 |
|
#
?
Feb 4, 2015 02:17
|
|
|
SedanChair posted:Wow let me escort you through the stone pillars in my garden Cole, back to the very origins of the concept of ethical behavior. this is why poo poo gets out of hand when i post here bro. just debate and discuss, it's what the point of this forum is. like seriously, no one is having any type of flame war going right now. things are civil and you're trying to just gently caress it all up. your first point was legitimate, and i would seriously give it some thought and a possible response but i don't think you would care either way??
|
|
#
?
Feb 4, 2015 02:22
|
|
|
Seriously though, that seems like such an obvious point that I thought you must have taken it into account and disregarded it before posting. Did you really not see that police authority should confer additional responsibility?
|
|
#
?
Feb 4, 2015 02:27
|
|
|
I would support harsher sentencing for police violations of the law than layperson, and I'm not sure if that's a really crazy opinion.
|
|
#
?
Feb 4, 2015 02:29
|
|
|
SedanChair posted:Seriously though, that seems like such an obvious point that I thought you must have taken it into account and disregarded it before posting. Did you really not see that police authority should confer additional responsibility? then why wouldn't you post something like this instead of trying to derail this thread into a flame war? i do agree that police have more responsibility, but denying them the same due process and justice system that every single person is afforded sets everyone up for constitutional rights issues, and that just complicates the issue. this is like saying "this is what you do after rape" instead of saying "don't rape" cops shouldn't be breaking the law, plain and simple, but you don't want to treat them any differently than any other person because there are no provisions in everyone's fallback defense (the constitution, which holds a supreme amount of weight) that punishes cops more harshly than anyone else.
|
|
#
?
Feb 4, 2015 02:31
|
|
|
Zeitgueist posted:I would support harsher sentencing for police violations of the law than layperson, and I'm not sure if that's a really crazy opinion. it's not. but you're opening up a pretty serious can of worms by doing so. if you want to write something like the UCMJ, the military's law, that police should fall under then you would have a valid reason for punishing them differently (which you already do, but you have no legal basis for it). but they fall under the same laws as everyone else, and you can't punish people differently if they fall under same laws. this also doesn't seem like such a crazy opinion.
|
|
#
?
Feb 4, 2015 02:32
|
|
|
Cole posted:it's not. but you're opening up a pretty serious can of worms by doing so. if you want to write something like the UCMJ, the military's law, that police should fall under then you would have a valid reason for punishing them differently (which you already do, but you have no legal basis for it). but they fall under the same laws as everyone else, and you can't punish people differently if they fall under same laws.  The law has tons of examples where people in positions of authority are punished worse than those not in a position of authority. You don't need special legal codes to change sentencing schedules for criminals that use their position of authority in the commission of a crime (e.g. The pic stealing chp).
|
|
#
?
Feb 4, 2015 03:06
|
|
|
There are states that specifically allow aggravation in sentencing based on the defendant being a police officer or other public servant, but you'd typically use it in situations where there's some relation between the crime and the work; the person is taking advantage of a position of trust to commit a crime. A random off-duty assault or DUI or whatever wouldn't necessarily count.
|
|
#
?
Feb 4, 2015 03:09
|
|
|
Zeitgueist posted:I would support harsher sentencing for police violations of the law than layperson, and I'm not sure if that's a really crazy opinion. I would totally support "acting under the color of the law" being an aggravating factor for sentencing.
|
|
#
?
Feb 4, 2015 03:13
|
|
|
Cole posted:i dunno man, it's really easy for me to swipe a friend's cell phone and steal the poo poo on it. Crimes committed under color of authority are worse than other crimes of a similar magnitude and should be punished more harshly.
|
|
#
?
Feb 4, 2015 03:19
|
|
|
A big flaming stink posted:how much jail time does a crime like that typically get for a first timer? Quite frankly, I suspect I could probably get someone with no record CTS on something like that for a felony plea. That felony is a big deal, I would have offered jail time for a misdo. Note that felony probation in most CA counties isn't a cakewalk. One of the problem with gauging cop sentences is that they never have a record and generally have a poo poo ton of mitigation (education, community service, etc) that most of my clients, when they hit felony land, never seem to have. The problem is that they get this benefit even when their crime involves a pretty severe breach of public trust that isn't generally easily accounted for in our sentencing.
|
|
#
?
Feb 4, 2015 03:39
|
|
|
Dead Reckoning posted:The difference being, most friends and strangers aren't empowered to detain or search you, nor confiscate your property. Agree. Especially if you are a retributivist and believe harm to society and society's interest in punishment are valid considerations. Abusing a position of public trust is a greater harm to society than the run of the mill shithead because it erodes public confidence in the institution as a whole.
|
|
#
?
Feb 4, 2015 04:12
|
|
|
Cole posted:i dunno man, it's really easy for me to swipe a friend's cell phone and steal the poo poo on it. A betrayal of the system you are supposed to uphold using a privileged position is absolutely a worse offense then Joe Blow stealing your phone. If you can't trust the enforcers of the law you can't trust the system, in-fact this very thread exists because the legal standards are so low for police officers. I figured this was a fundamentally understood aspect of The Problem With Police, and one of the primary things "police reform" would have to address. Do you seriously not understand the difference between someone entrusted to enforce the law and using that position to say make him and his buddies above said law and a random citizen who breaks the law?
|
|
#
?
Feb 4, 2015 04:42
|
|
|
Powercrazy posted:A betrayal of the system you are supposed to uphold using a privileged position is absolutely a worse offense then Joe Blow stealing your phone. If you can't trust the enforcers of the law you can't trust the system, in-fact this very thread exists because the legal standards are so low for police officers. I figured this was a fundamentally understood aspect of The Problem With Police, and one of the primary things "police reform" would have to address. Agreed
|
|
#
?
Feb 4, 2015 06:43
|
|
|
SedanChair posted:Do you guys really think that the police are all that's keeping a million different civil insurgency groups from spilling into the streets, smashing windows and occupying the TV station, inflamed with passionate outrage by the issues of water fluoridation and prayer in schools? http://www.cbc.ca/archives/categories/politics/civil-unrest/general-27/montreals-night-of-terror.html
|
|
#
?
Feb 4, 2015 07:21
|
|
|
Cole posted:1) anyone who should catch a felony and gets a misdemeanor is lucky. i don't know of anyone who will be like "judge, can i have a felony instead?" Lucky, or some sort of law enforcement apparently. There have been many examples in this thread alone of preferential treatment to LEOs, usually for egregious crimes. Your last sentence doesn't really make any sense to me. Cole posted:2) how is a cop responsible for a judge's decision? like i said earlier, that's an issue with the judicial system and the preferential treatment judges and attorneys give police. Never said he was, it's a part of the whole broken system though as you are apparently pointing out. So, I think we agree but for some reason you get upset when anybody criticizes a cop.
|
|
#
?
Feb 4, 2015 17:43
|
|
|
CheesyDog posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0HnmMdSkJAU Rolling a joint? HE'S COMING RIGHT FOR US GO GO GO GO! I don't think that level of force was necessary, or it could have been handled a different way.
|
|
#
?
Feb 4, 2015 18:53
|
|
|
KernelSlanders posted:http://www.cbc.ca/archives/categories/politics/civil-unrest/general-27/montreals-night-of-terror.html Police declaring a purge is a little different from the scenario I outlined.
|
|
#
?
Feb 4, 2015 18:57
|
|
|
CheesyDog posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0HnmMdSkJAU That cop would have straight up murdered that dude. Would have shot him right in the chest at point blank if it wasn't for that camera.
|
|
#
?
Feb 4, 2015 20:23
|
|
|
Meanwhile, the South gets something right. A Berkeley County Sheriff has resigned, leaving the Sheriff's Office vacant, after State Troopers arrested him for DUI and evading. http://www.postandcourier.com/article/20150204/PC16/150209699/1180/sources-berkeley-county-sheriff-wayne-dewitt-resigning
|
|
#
?
Feb 4, 2015 22:44
|
|
|
NYPD chief Bratton has asked the New York State Assembly to increase penalties for resisting arrest when asked whether it should be a felony offense.
|
|
#
?
Feb 5, 2015 16:40
|
|
|
ComradeCosmobot posted:NYPD chief Bratton has asked the New York State Assembly to increase penalties for resisting arrest when asked whether it should be a felony offense. Gross. But even grosser is the article's automatic assumption that Bratton meant Felony level. He just said increase penalties. Still horrifying to imagine all the 'felons' from people that resist arrest; like protesters.
|
|
#
?
Feb 5, 2015 17:13
|
|
|
Cracker King posted:Gross. But even grosser is the article's automatic assumption that Bratton meant Felony level. He just said increase penalties. Bratton was asked explicitly whether it should be made a felony, so I don't think it's an unreasonable inference (though I think it's important to point out that being asked directly whether it should be a felony and pivoting to increasing penalties without directly addressing the felony question is more of an answer in the negative).
|
|
#
?
Feb 5, 2015 17:15
|
|
|
The SFPD finally apologized for arresting that public defender, but they're still supporting the officers who arrested her, so she's filing a formal complaint over it. http://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2015/02/05/public-defender-arrested-by-san-francisco-police-in-viral-video-files-complaint
|
|
#
?
Feb 6, 2015 04:20
|
|
|
PostNouveau posted:The SFPD finally apologized for arresting that public defender, but they're still supporting the officers who arrested her, so she's filing a formal complaint over it. SF's PD office is really good. I was in the pool for a Murder 2 trial a few years back. After a long, tumultuous, and often violent relationship a woman stabbed her abuser. The PD's office had multiple expert witnesses lined up to talk about the psychology of a battered woman self defense, etc. I had a (white) ex spend a night in jail and have no charges filed when she stabbed and abusive boyfriend and I told the prosecutor to his face he shouldn't be charging murder 2 and there was no way I'd convict. I was excused for cause. Checking the news after the month-long trial, the jury acquitted in 4 hours. Apparently the stabbing happened when the two were sitting in a car and he started punching her in the face. If the prosecutor had been paying attention to the mood in the jury pool he'd have offered a deal or just dropped the charges. SF Public Defenders do good work.
|
|
#
?
Feb 6, 2015 05:15
|
|
|
Yeah, just for a bit of uplift let's appreciate for a moment how badass that lawyer is. "If you continue with this we're going to arrest you." "Please do." 
|
|
#
?
Feb 6, 2015 08:50
|
|
|
Cichlid the Loach posted:Yeah, just for a bit of uplift let's appreciate for a moment how badass that lawyer is. "Please proceed, governor."
|
|
#
?
Feb 7, 2015 02:16
|
|
|
Guy who I was hired with me at my office shot the video. You can hear him in the background, which was weird (that voice sounds loving familiar). I'm shocked this happened in SF of all places. In my much less progressive part of CA we do poo poo like this (happened yesterday) and the bailiffs back us up. She's PD badass for sure. SF PD is a weird loving office though, not sure I'd work there.
|
|
#
?
Feb 7, 2015 03:06
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 4, 2024 18:03 |
|
|
Looks like video changes another outcome. Some guy got pulled over on his scooter and they stepped out with batons, so he was afraid and fled. He's on a loving scooter so of course they caught him. Then they beat the hell out of him, alleging he had assaulted them and his injuries were from the fight. Fortunately, the poor guy's girlfriend tracked down a surveillance video that shows the whole thing, Now he's clear of all charges, awarded $200k for pain and suffering, and these cops are getting charged.
|
|
#
?
Feb 7, 2015 23:58
|
|
