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Dieting Hippo posted:there probably is but in the heat of battle i can't really track it until i go to use it and i lose it the second i press b you also lose it if you get hit
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Feb 4, 2015 05:03
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sharrrk posted:you also lose it if you get hit it's not if you get hit per se, it is if you get sent into a launch/tumble animation, i think.
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Feb 4, 2015 05:15
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mabels big day posted:it's not if you get hit per se, it is if you get sent into a launch/tumble animation, i think. It's after you enter hitstun for the first time after a certain amount of time passes from getting the full bar.
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Feb 4, 2015 05:20
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i think little mac is a poorly implemented gimmick character.
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Feb 4, 2015 05:28
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Ugh annoying people who win and then run. I want my sweet revenge!
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Feb 4, 2015 05:55
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Charizard is a fun pokemon, if you treat Rock Smash as a weird counterattack move
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Feb 4, 2015 07:06
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mabels big day posted:i think little mac is a poorly implemented gimmick character. I think the KO meter is just a poor gimmick on a character who already has like three ways to kill you at 70%~ percent and the KO meter just baits people into taking stupid risks because here's a shiny thing that goes away if you don't use it quickly so WHAT ARE YOU WAITING FOR PUSH THE BUTTON ALREA- oops, you missed. Time to die because your opponent has all day to punish you and Little Mac can't come back from poo poo off-stage. Reiley posted:Charizard is a fun pokemon, if you treat Rock Smash as a weird counterattack move Charizard is weird in that I think he's actually a really good prediction character. Flare Blitz, Rock Smash, Fly... even Back Air and Down Smash all are huge rewards for reading your opponent right and punishing them for pushing the wrong button at the wrong time. In another game Charizard would be a very nasty mixup character. Smash 4 being so reactive in style though kinda leaves Charizard in a weird spot where he's lacking in ways to put an opponent who's playing really safe into a position where they'd be at risk for his shenanigans.
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Feb 4, 2015 07:30
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Is edgehogging the greatest mechanic ever?
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Feb 4, 2015 07:58
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Owned.
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Feb 4, 2015 08:00
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ZeRo made a post asking "can't we all get along"  It got deleted by mods on reddit. You see the mindgame here is "why is this considered more exciting" ThisIsACoolGuy fucked around with this message at 08:08 on Feb 4, 2015 |
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Feb 4, 2015 08:06
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ZeRo's a giant baby, news at 11.
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Feb 4, 2015 08:13
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I want to emphasize how badly Sega got snuffed after they spent the past decade making so many amazing Mario remixes. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vzk4zBaSUkM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cQn5vbwDrqw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j4226ScF5tU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q0aIHWhkd40 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0M6pd9PeN4c https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qrrRHi2oQyI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0yCoXH3VMmg
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Feb 4, 2015 08:20
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Got any more examples like this? E: I'm not a fan of Zero but there's a huge loving divide between groups of people who play Smash and a lot of poo poo gets flung both ways. It definitely happens in other series but I struggle to think of one that's worse about it. TheKingofSprings fucked around with this message at 08:24 on Feb 4, 2015 |
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Feb 4, 2015 08:21
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them stomps though
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Feb 4, 2015 08:23
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F. Lobot posted:I want to emphasize how badly Sega got snuffed after they spent the past decade making so many amazing Mario remixes. Yeah pretty much, Sonic might've been rushed the last time but there's no excuse like that this time around
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Feb 4, 2015 08:27
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TheKingofSprings posted:Got any more examples like this? Not on hand I'm afraid.
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Feb 4, 2015 08:31
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Even within the Olympics games, though, only Mario gets the cool remixes. The Sonic side of the soundtrack is mostly the very same tracks that appear in Smash Bros. It seems there's actual rights issues where they either can't put out new arrangements of classic Sonic songs, or just don't want to risk it.
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Feb 4, 2015 08:32
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I respect ZeRo, for stepping up to the plate
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Feb 4, 2015 08:56
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Supercar Gautier posted:Even within the Olympics games, though, only Mario gets the cool remixes. The Sonic side of the soundtrack is mostly the very same tracks that appear in Smash Bros. It seems there's actual rights issues where they either can't put out new arrangements of classic Sonic songs, or just don't want to risk it. i still don't get how they couldn't have come up with anything. i mean maybe i could understand them having trouble with the classic songs, but like, they couldn't have even managed a windy hill remix or something? i don't get it
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Feb 4, 2015 09:00
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sharrrk posted:i still don't get how they couldn't have come up with anything. i mean maybe i could understand them having trouble with the classic songs, but like, they couldn't have even managed a windy hill remix or something? i don't get it I'm glad they kept the Sonic stuff to a minimum 
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Feb 4, 2015 09:15
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Supercar Gautier posted:Even within the Olympics games, though, only Mario gets the cool remixes. The Sonic side of the soundtrack is mostly the very same tracks that appear in Smash Bros. It seems there's actual rights issues where they either can't put out new arrangements of classic Sonic songs, or just don't want to risk it. There are a handful of good ones but yes, it's clear where most of the effort went. Most of Sonic's songs are recycled and all of Mario's are both original and better.
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Feb 4, 2015 09:26
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F. Lobot posted:There are a handful of good ones but yes, it's clear where most of the effort went. Most of Sonic's songs are recycled and all of Mario's are both original and better. oh poo poo, that first one is act 2 of flying battery zone. that's a nice selection.
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Feb 4, 2015 09:38
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Dieting Hippo posted:oh poo poo, that first one is act 2 of flying battery zone. that's a nice selection. As someone who played the Sonic & Knuckles Collection as a kid, I particularly enjoy the default Soundblaster midi lead instrument.
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Feb 4, 2015 09:44
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ThisIsACoolGuy posted:ZeRo made a post asking "can't we all get along" The smash community is so loving bad lmao
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Feb 4, 2015 11:31
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The REAL Goobusters posted:The smash community is so loving bad lmao
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Feb 4, 2015 11:36
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The REAL Goobusters posted:The smash community is so loving bad lmao Smash is the only community I've seen survive despite hating itself so much.
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Feb 4, 2015 13:31
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ZeRo you are a good man for doing this but the Smash community is too far-gone for change to happen I'm sorry.
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Feb 4, 2015 13:38
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it wasn't really that annoying in melee. brawl played at like, half that speed, and had metaknight, who couldn't be edgehogged but was amazing at edge-hogging people among other things.
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Feb 4, 2015 13:42
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Maybe falcon should have drop backaired instead of just using a really bad, telegraphed move that can be cancelled on the edge a bunch? Seeing someone Stomp 20 times isn't interesting at all, especially when it doesn't work the first time. There were multiple times in that gif where he could have just dropped down and secured the kill while fox was cancelling the smash, so it makes sense that he ended up getting punished for essentially doing the worst possible thing. Especially when he could have dropped off and gotten the spike hitbox on the stomp if he had actually just dropped down the first time. Not really a good example considering how the fox waits for him to move back from the stomp, then uses it to recover and pulls off grab shine turnaround to punish, which is infinitely cooler and more hype than smashing down a 30 times even though its not working. Smash is about staying unpredictable, and that was like.... totally on falcon, who was playing really lame. ThisIsACoolGuy posted:ZeRo made a post asking "can't we all get along" The post wasn't deleted? It's sitting right on the front page. laplace fucked around with this message at 14:07 on Feb 4, 2015 |
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Feb 4, 2015 13:59
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I'm sorry laplace but nothing was hype about that be it the fox or the falcon, it just illustrates that it's boring as hell to hang off a ledge for a easy kill that the fox didn't really deserve/work for. Edit: The Post was apparently brought back up, apparently a mod tried to get it off the front page and "accidentally" deleted it and only brought it back when word got out which isn't much better.
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Feb 4, 2015 14:07
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I'm not saying it was hype, I'm saying that nothing in that clip was interesting to begin with and the most interesting part about it was how Fox converted to a kill by outplaying the Falcon, so it might not be a good example of ledgehogging being lame because that Falcon was also being super lame already, so there really wasn't anything standout about the fox punishing him. Saying its lame just because the fox edgeguarded him downplays the rest of the play there, which was more important than the end edgeguard.
laplace fucked around with this message at 14:19 on Feb 4, 2015 |
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Feb 4, 2015 14:17
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Ways to win that don't involve attacking are boring and should not be in the game. It's not complicated.
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Feb 4, 2015 14:22
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Give it up laplace you'll never convince people that melee metagame is calibrated with ledgehogging in mind. I think it's mostly that people who don't play in tournaments never do it when playing with their friends so it looks stupid to them when they watch tournaments. Also, it's like 8:23 EST, isn't it time you picked up that gamecube controller???
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Feb 4, 2015 14:23
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I picked up a gamecube controller so I can play Paper Mariolaplace posted:I'm not saying it was hype, I'm saying that nothing in that clip was interesting to begin with and the most interesting part about it was how Fox converted to a kill by outplaying the Falcon, so it might not be a good example of ledgehogging being lame because that Falcon was also being super lame already, so there really wasn't anything standout about the fox punishing him. Saying its lame just because the fox edgeguarded him downplays the rest of the play there, which was more important than the end edgeguard. Thing is to a casual player, I see a Falcon stomping a fox and while not killing him it's raising his %. By the end it's in the 90's so he's clearly in a good spot. Next Fox gets back on the platform, backthrows and just walks off the platform to knock him away with the shine and hangs onto the ledge to take a stock, it's not really interesting and seems more like a bad mechanic.
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Feb 4, 2015 14:25
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I'm not trying to convince anyone of ledgehogging's value right now, I'm just saying that's not the best example because the ledgehog setup was better than anything the Falcon did there. It'd be one thing if the falcon just fell off the edge and got ledgehogged, but like... that gif is just a bad scrubby falcon playing poorly and getting owned. I just think Ledgehogging is literally the same as any attack. It's an offensive option that you space and time well that kills the enemy in very specific situations. If you gently caress it up you get punished/stage spiked. I don't see the difference between it and a forward smash except maybe that ledgehogging has a less flashy animation. That being said the competitive melee metagame is calibrated entirely with ledgehogging in mind, considering how it's... only present in the competitive metagame. ThisIsACoolGuy posted:Thing is to a casual player, I see a Falcon stomping a fox and while not killing him it's raising his %. By the end it's in the 90's so he's clearly in a good spot. The question here is what was the Falcon playing towards if he was just using the extremely risky, poor position of the edge to raise fox's percent. Did he think about what would have happened after? What was his end goal? How was he going to convert that to a kill? He could have sealed the deal multiple times and didn't, put himself in a bad position, and then got beaten because the fox took advantage of that with a pretty difficult series of maneuvers (in comparison). That's why the falcon was lamer than the edgeguard, cuz he wasn't thinking about what he was doing. messagemode1 posted:Also, it's like 8:23 EST, isn't it time you picked up that gamecube controller??? Nah I have things to do today, so I'm not practicing until I go to my weekly. ThisIsACoolGuy posted:I picked up a gamecube controller so I can play Paper Mario Paper Mario is a good game. laplace fucked around with this message at 14:39 on Feb 4, 2015 |
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Feb 4, 2015 14:36
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The metagame of any competitive game will adapt to every mechanic in the game. That doesn't make all those mechanics good.
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Feb 4, 2015 14:42
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Once again, not really what I'm saying right now. Just that the Falcon was lame as gently caress and that that GIF wasn't a great example if you're trying to make the argument that ledgehogging is lame cuz the falcon was lamer than the edgeguard. edit: This is a really cool thing that was just discovered, which makes not just two, but three really cool things discovered for both SSB4 and Melee in the time since APEX. laplace fucked around with this message at 14:55 on Feb 4, 2015 |
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Feb 4, 2015 14:45
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laplace posted:Once again, not really what I'm saying right now. Just that the Falcon was lame as gently caress and that that GIF wasn't a great example if you're trying to make the argument that ledgehogging is lame cuz the falcon was lamer than the edgeguard.
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Feb 4, 2015 14:47
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laplace posted:edit: This is a really cool thing that was just discovered, which makes not just two, but three really cool things discovered for both SSB4 and Melee in the time since APEX. This is way too technical for me right now, but what are the other two? Also, someone earlier showed me Falco Dair Cancel, and I've been practicing it in practice mode but I have to wonder; is it even viable in actual play? I've never seen anyone do it, even in this tournament and I've certainly never been able to do it on anything other than a stationary target. Unrelatedly, I figured out my problem with For Glory  I can easily beat level 9 CPU's with both hands behind my back and my eyes blindfolded, but my win % in For Glory is still ~30%, and I realized it's because every single match I have has incredible lag. We're talking 0.5 seconds of input lag at best. It really sucks, since I don't know anyone who plays Smash and thought I'd finally be able to play regardless. I really wish they'd match you up with people closer to you geographically, since I'm sure that the problem ( ).
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Feb 4, 2015 15:14
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Your Computer posted:This is way too technical for me right now, but what are the other two? Yoshi waveland lightshield Parry in Melee (allowed Amsa to slide and parry at the same time) and the Link Jab Cancel Infinite in SSB4. It's crazy that we're still discovering things about this game, and it gives me a lot of hope for S4. Edit: The aerial lag cancel stuff in S4 is pretty unviable since it requires both telegraphed timing and a 1 frame execution window, so it's only applicable in a few very limited situations. Though every character has like... a move or two that can do it, it's more interesting because of what it implies about the engine than what its application is directly. It's pretty clearly unintended so there's a chance that it will be patched out or force a patch, which could be nice. laplace fucked around with this message at 15:22 on Feb 4, 2015 |
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Feb 4, 2015 15:19
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