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I would imagine the version of "windows" the Pi is getting will look a lot like Microst Hyper-V Server 2012 R2, i.e. it boots to a "gui" with a single cmd window and a single powershell window. No explorer, no directx. Probably shipping with .net v5.0 to run command line apps, and RDP access but not much else. Oh, and task manager. (Full disclosure: I run a Hyper-V VM lab at home) http://www.itwriting.com/blog/6509-microsofts-hyper-v-server-2012-too-painful-to-use.html  Maybe it will have a ruthlessly cut down version of explorer, a copy of Spartan (son of IE) or some Pi-specific GUI? They've already said that it won't be capable of running MS Office.
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Feb 4, 2015 08:11
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Hadlock posted:They've already said that it won't be capable of running MS Office. 
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Feb 4, 2015 08:24
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Hadlock posted:I would imagine the version of "windows" the Pi is getting will look a lot like Microst Hyper-V Server 2012 R2, i.e. it boots to a "gui" with a single cmd window and a single powershell window. No explorer, no directx. Probably shipping with .net v5.0 to run command line apps, and RDP access but not much else. Oh, and task manager. (Full disclosure: I run a Hyper-V VM lab at home) Yeah, I doubt it. Microsoft has been trying to get its foot in the door for the small computing market since Windows Phone, so the work is being done. And there's no way in hell they'd allow a terminal to use the "Windows" brand with no qualifiers like "server" or "light" or anything at all.
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Feb 4, 2015 08:36
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I don't think it'll be nearly that ugly, but in terms of functionality I'm expecting it to have the Athens IoT kernel with custom GUI, not a slimmed down RT kernel. I'm trying to demonstrate the out of the box functionality, mainly as a vehicle to run custom .net apps and scripts, rather than a traditional consumer windows desktop. Windows 10 apparently has a modern looking console window (finally) although I haven't tried it out myself. Kind of interested in what they come up with for the GUI, as it's a free product not meant for business users, and not directly tied to their main product, which really frees them up to do something even more wild than their failed Metro experiment. They could do something in the Win7 starter edition to Metro specturm, or do something wild like the old Moblin/Meego or first gen Ubuntu Netbook Remix (which eventually morphed in to the cancer that is Unity). They're not tied to anything at all so they could go in any direction with no real repercussions. A lot of Pi HAT displays are fewer than 640x480 pixels so I wonder if they'll take that in to consideration. Pi HATs lend themselves to single purpose full screen applications so the underlying OS doesn't matter so much as long as it gets out of the way and doesn't hurt performance or battery life.
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Feb 4, 2015 09:01
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I hear a lot about the Pi, and a few people at work thinking of getting a Pi 2, but I don't get it. I have a Linux fileserver server at home, a desktop and a laptop. What would I want with a Pi? I have a boxee box which will need replacing in the next year, but on past experience I'd be insane to get anything that's not x86 based, for reasons of video decoding power, flexibility and ease of use. Intel have their stick computers out this year, and I've heard its already possible to get an integrated SFF celeron board for ~$50. What is the USP of a Pi?
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Feb 4, 2015 22:34
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Education? For me it's about connecting sensors with the web.
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Feb 4, 2015 23:04
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It's a cheap hobbyist computer with a strong community of fellow hackers. Kind of like what the Commodore 64 was back in the day. Yes, those examples you gave would probably do the job better, but where's the fun in that? This is more about hacking something cool. After all, this is designed as an educational computer science tool for schools.
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Feb 4, 2015 23:06
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Yeah, as an inexperienced tinkerer/programmer the pi is a lot more appealing.
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Feb 4, 2015 23:08
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Rexroom posted:It's a cheap hobbyist computer with a strong community of fellow hackers. Kind of like what the Commodore 64 was back in the day. Yes, those examples you gave would probably do the job better, but where's the fun in that? This is more about hacking something cool. After all, this is designed as an educational computer science tool for schools. Ehh I really hate the C64 connection people try to draw with it. C64 was cheap but it also was widespread and a more than decent games machine. It later developed a community of hackers and hobbyists as it started to decline in popularity, yet remained on the shelf at a cheap price point, but it was always focused around "mainstream" usage - it was nearly 50% of the personal computer market all by itself at one point!   A better comparison would be old-fashioned kit computers.
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Feb 4, 2015 23:16
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Rexroom posted:It's a cheap hobbyist computer with a strong community of fellow hackers. Kind of like what the Commodore 64 was back in the day. Yes, those examples you gave would probably do the job better, but where's the fun in that? This is more about hacking something cool. After all, this is designed as an educational computer science tool for schools. Does anyone with a Pi really not already ha ve a PC though? Surely we can tinker and learn to program on our PC in python or something, or run a VM for OS tinkering. For buying a ton of machines for cheap as education tools it maybe makes sense, but if you have access to a real server, or ability to run a VM, not sure what you're getting. The one thing I might bother tinkering with on a low power device is networking: e.g. an OpenBSD firewall. This though has just one 100mbps Ethernet port, which kills it.
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Feb 5, 2015 00:12
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eschaton posted:This is interesting because LabView is evidently still in use on Mac II and Quadra (68020-68040) hardware. (How else could one explain the price of NuBus GPIB & data acquisition cards on eBay?) You'll find tons of hilariously obsolete hardware still running software that was written decades ago that no one understands. So long as that stuff still exists, people will pay for replacement parts instead of investing in building new replacement systems. When I was in college, I know professors in my department were always trying to find new students to trick into learning old versions of labview so that they could maintain and update the software running ancient lab equipment setups. Additionally, I can only assume that the Labview of the mid-90s had way less overhead in order to run on that hardware.
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Feb 5, 2015 00:15
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wooger posted:Does anyone with a Pi really not already ha ve a PC though? Surely we can tinker and learn to program on our PC in python or something, or run a VM for OS tinkering. The things I like to tinker with the Pi require portability and GPIO. PCs don't make sense for those applications.
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Feb 5, 2015 00:16
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wooger posted:Does anyone with a Pi really not already ha ve a PC though? Surely we can tinker and learn to program on our PC in python or something, or run a VM for OS tinkering. Main thing is that if you start wiring random electronics projects onto your regular PC, you risk losing hundreds of dollars of hardware. It's way safer doing it with the pi or other similar devices.
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Feb 5, 2015 00:18
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wooger posted:Does anyone with a Pi really not already ha ve a PC though? Surely we can tinker and learn to program on our PC in python or something, or run a VM for OS tinkering. Sure, now please show us how to connect a sensor like this or LEDS like these to your PC and control them in Python/C++/JavaScript/etc. Without buying hardware that costs more than the Pi.
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Feb 5, 2015 00:34
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Is the Pi2 the same form factor as the B+? I don't imagine it is but I don't have a 2 to put into a B+ case. Really excited about picking up a Pi2, but I imagine I'll have to wait a few months for supply issues to get sorted out. Read somewhere that Newark vastly underestimated demand only ordered 8k units which is so ridiculous that I have to believe it's full of poo poo.
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Feb 5, 2015 00:47
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IIRC the Pi B 2 will fit in most Pi B+ cases, with the exception of the Pibow ones. Although I'm sure you could modify those ones to fit the B 2.
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Feb 5, 2015 00:56
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wooger posted:I hear a lot about the Pi, and a few people at work thinking of getting a Pi 2, but I don't get it. I'm having a ton of fun building a soundboard project with my newly-purchased Raspberry Pi B+. I got a nice starter kit that had loads of helpful parts and bought a few other cool things to make it an easy project. I got around to setting up the Pi and getting its internal OS updated today. Dropped the project code onto it from a web link and then hooked it to my breadboard where I had prototyped the circuit using a walkthrough. It worked. My dumb little project worked. That, to me, justifies the cost and there's a world of goofy hobby things that have opened up for having this nifty little gadget around. It's not a replacement for any of the computer hardware I already have like my NAS and main PC, but it's a supplement so I can pursue things that interest me. My next project is going to be an automated shitposting machine. 
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Feb 5, 2015 01:01
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Are there any Pi clones that will take PoE via the main board? I've got a small project at work that I'd love to use a Pi (or any other micro linux device with GPIO) for, and I'm /really/ space constrained vertically so I can't stack anything on the main Pi. I think there are PoE decouplers that will separate it into Vcc and Ethernet that don't sit on top of the Pi which is a possibility, but if I can get it done on one board that's all that much the better.
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Feb 5, 2015 01:57
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wooger posted:Does anyone with a Pi really not already ha ve a PC though? Surely we can tinker and learn to program on our PC in python or something, or run a VM for OS tinkering. Don't think of it as a tiny, underpowered PC - instead, it's more like a microcontroller on steroids. It can connect to all kinds of sensors, output devices, controllers for motors, heaters, and other things that do work in the real world, and so on. It's got enough intelligence to speak to more complex systems over a network, run a complex UI locally, and work at the API/library level rather than bare metal. And, it's all small and cheap enough to work in hobby projects where you don't want to deal with the cost, size, electrical requirements, and so forth of a full x86 PC. If you just want to learn Python and Linux, the Raspberry Pi sucks. But, if you want to learn how to make a bong that tweets when you hit it, the Pi is probably the best choice out there.
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Feb 5, 2015 02:24
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Martytoof posted:Are there any Pi clones that will take PoE via the main board? I've got a small project at work that I'd love to use a Pi (or any other micro linux device with GPIO) for, and I'm /really/ space constrained vertically so I can't stack anything on the main Pi. I think there are PoE decouplers that will separate it into Vcc and Ethernet that don't sit on top of the Pi which is a possibility, but if I can get it done on one board that's all that much the better. It's not true PoE but you could use something like this and feed in a 5V power supply (NOT the 48 volt PoE power standard!): https://www.adafruit.com/product/435
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Feb 5, 2015 02:52
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Space Gopher posted:If you just want to learn Python and Linux, the Raspberry Pi sucks.
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Feb 5, 2015 02:55
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nmfree posted:Why? It's slow and the distributions used tend to work a bit differently to deal with the hardware. You can easily learn both just fine with the computer you already have, with a simple free VM to run Linux in if you don't want to try dual booting it.
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Feb 5, 2015 02:57
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mod sassinator posted:It's not true PoE but you could use something like this and feed in a 5V power supply (NOT the 48 volt PoE power standard!): https://www.adafruit.com/product/435 Ohhhhh this is actually bordering on ideal. This way I can still use a 5V wart without installing PoE equipment. Looks good! 
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Feb 5, 2015 03:10
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Yeah you'll want something like this too so you can plug in to the barrel jack and connect it to the pi's power port: https://www.adafruit.com/product/988 Look around though and you might find one that does barrel jack to straight micro USB like this: http://www.vetco.net/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=72_301&products_id=14954
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Feb 5, 2015 03:15
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Has anyone gotten coreCLR to compile on the Pi yet? I've seen some instructions but they were 64 bit only.
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Feb 5, 2015 03:47
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Thanks, these answers all make sense, though when it comes to connecting your own electronics creations and tiny sensors, I'd understood the Arduino was more the way to go. Certainly, all the people I've spoken to with a Pi are just using it for Linux / programming / media player, which is what didn't make sense to me.
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Feb 5, 2015 09:30
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Arduino is a great little platform, but the Pi is much more capable. You can get a network / wifi stack for arduino (I think), but if you want to connect your sensor wirelessly to the web then install nginx on your pi and have linux do the connectivity. You're adding a huge layer of abstraction between yourself and the bare hardware, and the Pi does have certain drawbacks (no ADC IIRC, etc), but if you just need to flip GPIOs then that should be fine. It'll also be much easier to implement a GUI for your app if you need one, etc.
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Feb 5, 2015 14:52
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Hadlock posted:Has anyone gotten coreCLR to compile on the Pi yet? I'd stick with mono for now, you can just apt-get install mono-complete and get it. CoreCLR is pretty new and I doubt will be easy to compile and use on ARM right now.
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Feb 5, 2015 23:34
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BrainDance posted:Nothing is getting Windows RT ever again. Windows RT is basically dead. I got my Odroid C1 just yesterday. It went up without a problem (apart of having to fiddle a little bit with boot.ini due to my monitor being old and not supporting the default resolution), and the OS isn't too much bloated (being Ubuntu). The only problem I had is I really believed the little thingy was going to be able to power an exrternal USB HD: it didn't, so I had to use a powered hub to keep the disk happy. For the use I'm going to give it (emulating quite old hardware) it seems to work well. I haven't tried to use it as a mediacenter, but I understand there are serious shortcomings there (not being able to do CEC being the greatest).
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Feb 5, 2015 23:45
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Are you using the Odroid with a desktop environment or just CLI? How responsive is it? Also anyone know what the upper end for overclocking that device is? 1.8ghz from the stock 1.5ghz?
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Feb 6, 2015 00:06
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E: ^^^ current kernel lets you do an overclock up to 1.72ghz so far (need a passive cooler) and a user has clocked his up to 1.9ghz with a HSF on itAmberskin posted:I got my Odroid C1 just yesterday. It went up without a problem (apart of having to fiddle a little bit with boot.ini due to my monitor being old and not supporting the default resolution), and the OS isn't too much bloated (being Ubuntu). The only problem I had is I really believed the little thingy was going to be able to power an exrternal USB HD: it didn't, so I had to use a powered hub to keep the disk happy. The ports only put out 500mA of power so they won't power most/any usb powered HDDs. I also use a powered hub on mine.
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Feb 6, 2015 00:11
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The Pi 2 is currently on back order on Adafruit, as well as Element 14. Adafruit has an in stock email notification signup if any one is interested.
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Feb 6, 2015 00:13
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Haquer posted:E: ^^^ current kernel lets you do an overclock up to 1.72ghz so far (need a passive cooler) and a user has clocked his up to 1.9ghz with a HSF on it Hmm, reading their forums it seems that the ODroid rides 80-85 degrees when playing 1080p movies and have their boards getting warped from the resultant heat without any overclocking at all. Even with a heatsink.
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Feb 6, 2015 00:21
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YouTuber posted:Hmm, reading their forums it seems that the ODroid rides 80-85 degrees when playing 1080p movies and have their boards getting warped from the resultant heat without any overclocking at all. Even with a heatsink. The only board I've seen warped was the guy who put screws through his and tightened it way too loving tight. Also mine, in a case, topped out at ~75 degrees while playing back a 25mb/s 1080p movie bare and now tops out at ~65 with their stock cooler.
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Feb 6, 2015 00:24
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Martytoof posted:Is the Pi2 the same form factor as the B+? I don't imagine it is but I don't have a 2 to put into a B+ case. I got my Pi 2 the day after ordering along with a generic B+ case and it fit perfectly. I only got it to replace my original B model which was a bit sluggish through the gui in Kodi, but the 2 is actually silky smooth now, on par with a pc in terms of speed now I'd say. The B played everything I threw at it so the 2 shouldn't have any problems. For less than $50AUD, I can't really complain. I've ordered a compatible wireless USB stuck for the B now so I can turn the old one into a 3DS streetpass machine using SpillPass. If get maybe 2 or 3 a week of I'm lucky, but now I should be rolling in them 24/7. Puddin fucked around with this message at 00:56 on Feb 6, 2015 |
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Feb 6, 2015 00:54
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Amberskin posted:For the use I'm going to give it (emulating quite old hardware) it seems to work well. I haven't tried to use it as a mediacenter, but I understand there are serious shortcomings there (not being able to do CEC being the greatest). Anyone know anything else about this? No CEC is no big deal for me but I don't want any surprises. I'm heavily leaning towards an O-Droid now because they're a bit cheaper in Korea than a Raspberry Pi. I'm also looking at the ODROID-U3, I'm just not sure if the differences justify the price hike.
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Feb 6, 2015 02:57
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BrainDance posted:Anyone know anything else about this? No CEC is no big deal for me but I don't want any surprises. I'm heavily leaning towards an O-Droid now because they're a bit cheaper in Korea than a Raspberry Pi. HDMI-CEC works fine on the Pi. E: well at least it does in Kodi, I have no experience of its in some kind of custom build.
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Feb 6, 2015 05:08
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CEC also works great in openelec builds of xbmc/kodi, and have since Frodo / openelec 3.x builds.
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Feb 6, 2015 05:15
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mod sassinator posted:Sure, now please show us how to connect a sensor like this or LEDS like these to your PC and control them in Python/C++/JavaScript/etc. Without buying hardware that costs more than the Pi. Here you go, this is $8 cheaper than the Pi B or Pi 2. http://www.seeedstudio.com/depot/Bus-Pirate-v36-universal-serial-interface-p-609.html http://dangerousprototypes.com/docs/Bus_Pirate_Scripting_in_Python All in one USB to SPI/I2C/etc, PWM generator, 10MHz logic analyzer, etc. The Pi isn't the only hammer for that particular nail. Even at the $35 price point. Paul MaudDib fucked around with this message at 23:11 on Feb 6, 2015 |
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Feb 6, 2015 23:01
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Bus Pirate is $30, for $55 you can get a Beagle Bone Black which plugs in to your PC in the same way (i.e. SSH in to the device over usb), but can run independent of the PC once you get the code sorted out. Comes with an onboard Python/Javascript IDE, also 4GB of onboard eMMC so you don't have to shell out $8 more for the SD card like you do for the Pi 2 (which is going for $45 on Adafruit right now, so $45 + 8 = $53, and doesn't have the "SSH over usb" capability of the BBB.) https://www.adafruit.com/products/1996
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Feb 7, 2015 01:19
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