Knyteguy's Finances: More harebrained schemes than a sitcom dad

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Robo Boogie Bot: Sep 4, 2011

Grumpwagon posted:

This is exactly what YNAB says to do, and in fact what he is doing. He takes his income, subtracts off his set savings amount per month. The remaining is his total out of pocket amount to spend. Categorizing it helps some people (including me) stick to guidelines. Yes, he's reallocating some of that money after the fact. That happens. The idea is it will happen less as he sets into new habits and has more data.

I'm agreeing with you that an average person should be able to tinker with their budget, and reallocate funds when necessary. But for someone like KG who spends emotionally and struggles to plan for and anticipate spending ("Oops we ran out of food." "Oops, moving cost three times more than expected."), that fluidity seems to be allowing him to continue to spend more than he should.

The analogy that gets thrown around is a toddler pushing food around on his plate, and it's true. The more things get subdivided, mushed up, and hidden under a napkin, they tend to *look* smaller. But they are still there. KG's expenses get subdivided and pushed around, new line items are added monthly. But the reality is that KJ always spends more than he planned to.

# ? Feb 3, 2015 18:23

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# ? May 13, 2024 00:47

n8r: Jul 3, 2003; I helped Lowtax become a cyborg and all I got was this lousy avatar

Old Fart posted:

I would love to see people lighten up on this point. KG doesn't even have enough data to know what's "normal", so it's silly to hold to some arbitrary number. I think we should be happy that he's tracking spending and making adjustments to meet needs. Maybe after six months or a year he'll have the information to normalize.

KG isn't a business, he's a person. He doesn't have a CFO with years of numbers to make budgets. He doesn't have shareholders to please. As long as he sets aside savings first and doesn't over-spend what's remaining, does it matter how the numbers play out? Think of him as one department in the overall company. He's given his budget. Do we care if he spends it on paper clips or copier toner? If he under-estimates the ballpoint pen budget, do we care if he takes it out of his Friday bagels budget?

I don't think I'm beating KG up - I'm just being honest. KG is doing a hell of a lot better, he's saving quite a bit right now, and he has stopped a lot of his prior poor spending habits. That being said, I don't believe he is developing much in the way of really good money habits. Every couple of months of good choices has been followed up with some really bad ones.

I totally agree with your point about who cares what he spends his money on as long as he hits his savings target. His target right now seems to be 'as much as possible', but my critique of that would be that he's saving as much as convenient without a lot of planning. There is very little in the way of sticking to the budget and delaying purchases when necessary. For example he mentions grooming purchases last month. Someone really sticking to a budget just doesn't spend the money because it's not in the budget. You wait until next month to get the haircut or buy the makeup when you can integrate that into the budget. If it's truly mission critical that you get a haircut, you pay for that haircut out of discretionary (which I believe he did).

I believe for KG to develop good spending habits he needs to establish a mindset where he is saving a set amount of money come hell or high water. Only truly unforeseen expenses - like insurance going up - should cause you to bust into that savings amount. Since you don't have a set savings amount, when the next bit of drama occurs, you will justify breaking leases and making poor financial choices because you're not holding yourself to your budget.

The food budget is a good microcosm of this situation. Your set amount of $300 was a little low, but you didn't even get close. Someone who is really sticking to a budget would have realized that after $200 in the first week that they were going to have to really cut back to make $300. Next month you change some items around so you have more money to spend on food.

# ? Feb 3, 2015 18:24

Bugamol: Aug 2, 2006

It's been said before, but it feels like every month you're "front-loading" expenses and "expect it to come off the following month", but then it never does. I think this is the frustration a lot of us have with you constantly changing your numbers and reallocating and switching programs and and and and. If you'd been using YNAB, Mint, or Excel consistently since this thread started you'd have 1.5 years worth of data and smoothing to look at it. Instead you have a jumble of numbers here and there that you can't make heads or tails from.

Obviously you're doing a pretty good job overall, but you also have (or at least had) some pretty aggressive goals. It's going to take real discipline to get yourself out of 5 figure debt while saving up for a down payment on a house.

Your life is also about to get turned upside down with this baby on the way. It's why most of us were trying to get you to establish and stick to routines because you've proven time and time again when you stop tracking you start overspending.

# ? Feb 3, 2015 18:28

PitViper: May 25, 2003; Welcome and thank you for shopping at Wal-Mart!
I love you!

I was going to say, "front-loading" things like pet food isn't actually helping your budget. My cats eat a 16# bag of food every 35-40 days, and we go through around 34# of litter every three weeks. My expenditures don't line up nicely every month, but buying a second bag of food in January doesn't magically make my pets cost less, it just moves the expense up a month. It makes February look better, but who cares?

What I'm saying is, figure out what your pets cost you. I just budget for one bag of food and a box and a half of litter every month. Some months might be more, some months might be less, but guess what? Since Pet Expenses roll over, it works out in the long term. Same thing with everything. Stuff like food and household items and pets are never going to be spot in to your magic number every month. You set categories to roll over, if you overspend one month, cut back the next.

If you're consistently overspending a category, it means your budgeted amount is either too low, or you're buying things you don't need. Adjust the budget higher and move the money from another category that's over budgeted, or figure out how to spend less. You're using the budget as a way to justify expenses, where you should be using it as a way to track spending within your overall income/expense report.

For what it's worth, I use Mint as an actual budgeting tool, and Quicken on a laptop as a day-to-day checkbook register to make sure my accounts are balanced. Quicken tells me how much money I have now, Mint just checks my balances against my checking register, and tracks my spending in each category more easily.

# ? Feb 3, 2015 22:28

CuddleChunks: Sep 18, 2004

Knyteguy posted:

(chips and salsa is my bane)

2 or 3 ripe tomatoes (plum, roma or beefsteak all work fine)
1/2 sweet yellow onion (Walla Walla sweets)
1 small jalapeno pepper
1 ripe lime
1 clove garlic
Small bunch cilantro
Salt, Pepper

Cut the tomatoes in quarters from the top of the stem on down. scoop out the interior pulp and remove the stem portion. You should be left with mostly tomato "meat" and not a lot of liquid. Dice and throw into a glass or plastic container. If you love onions, then dice up the entire half onion. If not, cut it in half again and dice just that section. A fine mince is preferable here. Throw that into the container. Put on some latex gloves and cut the jalapeno in half. Scoop out the seeds and cot off the stem section. If you like lots of heat in your salsa then dont' bother scooping, just start dicing that bad boy. When you have a little pile of diced pepper throw that into your mix. Finely dice a clove of garlic and throw into the pot. A small bunch of cilantro is next. Using a very sharp knife you want to roll it up into a tight bundle then chop through it to shred the cilantro. Throw that into the pot and stir everything to mix. Grab a lime and roll it between your mighty hands. Really put the hurt on it as you roll it back and forth. Now, cut it in half and using your thumbs jam them into the pulp and rub them around until you've pulped that lime and the juice has run down onto your salsa. Add pepper and some salt. Stir around, then taste it. You'll probably add more salt but this is all to taste.

Throw it into the fridge for a bit if you want or jam it into your stupid face because salsa rules. The longer you can hold off, the better because the flavors and salt will all do their magic.

Quadruple the recipe and then set aside into smaller containers so you can have fresh salsa over the course of a week or so. Then make it again when you hunger. If you want it super smooth then throw everything into a food processor and pulse it a few times. It'll be a gooshy mess at that point.

Commercial salsa will be cheaper since they can source their ingredients at prices you can't. On the other hand, you should be able to find some vegetable stands around town that sell tomatoes when they are in season and get them for a decent price.

# ? Feb 4, 2015 00:46

SiGmA_X: May 3, 2004; SiGmA_X

PitViper posted:

I was going to say, "front-loading" things like pet food isn't actually helping your budget. My cats eat a 16# bag of food every 35-40 days, and we go through around 34# of litter every three weeks. My expenditures don't line up nicely every month, but buying a second bag of food in January doesn't magically make my pets cost less, it just moves the expense up a month. It makes February look better, but who cares?

What I'm saying is, figure out what your pets cost you. I just budget for one bag of food and a box and a half of litter every month. Some months might be more, some months might be less, but guess what? Since Pet Expenses roll over, it works out in the long term. Same thing with everything. Stuff like food and household items and pets are never going to be spot in to your magic number every month. You set categories to roll over, if you overspend one month, cut back the next.

If you're consistently overspending a category, it means your budgeted amount is either too low, or you're buying things you don't need. Adjust the budget higher and move the money from another category that's over budgeted, or figure out how to spend less. You're using the budget as a way to justify expenses, where you should be using it as a way to track spending within your overall income/expense report.

For what it's worth, I use Mint as an actual budgeting tool, and Quicken on a laptop as a day-to-day checkbook register to make sure my accounts are balanced. Quicken tells me how much money I have now, Mint just checks my balances against my checking register, and tracks my spending in each category more easily.

A) Amazon sent him the wrong bag of food and charged him for it, so he is going to use it.

B) Why don't you use Quicken for budgeting too, and what version of Quicken do you use? I use Quicken, but I don't use its budgeting tools (excel is my go-to, I also use YNAB mostly to be able to know what everyone else on the forums is doing with it, but I kind of like it too. Minus it's lovely reporting. Quicken FTW.)

# ? Feb 4, 2015 00:54

Knyteguy: Jul 6, 2005; YES to love
NO to shirts; Toilet Rascal

n8r posted:

I don't think I'm beating KG up - I'm just being honest. KG is doing a hell of a lot better, he's saving quite a bit right now, and he has stopped a lot of his prior poor spending habits. That being said, I don't believe he is developing much in the way of really good money habits. Every couple of months of good choices has been followed up with some really bad ones.

I totally agree with your point about who cares what he spends his money on as long as he hits his savings target. His target right now seems to be 'as much as possible', but my critique of that would be that he's saving as much as convenient without a lot of planning. There is very little in the way of sticking to the budget and delaying purchases when necessary. For example he mentions grooming purchases last month. Someone really sticking to a budget just doesn't spend the money because it's not in the budget. You wait until next month to get the haircut or buy the makeup when you can integrate that into the budget. If it's truly mission critical that you get a haircut, you pay for that haircut out of discretionary (which I believe he did).

I believe for KG to develop good spending habits he needs to establish a mindset where he is saving a set amount of money come hell or high water. Only truly unforeseen expenses - like insurance going up - should cause you to bust into that savings amount. Since you don't have a set savings amount, when the next bit of drama occurs, you will justify breaking leases and making poor financial choices because you're not holding yourself to your budget.

The food budget is a good microcosm of this situation. Your set amount of $300 was a little low, but you didn't even get close. Someone who is really sticking to a budget would have realized that after $200 in the first week that they were going to have to really cut back to make $300. Next month you change some items around so you have more money to spend on food.

Hm I see what you're getting at here. I like the terminology you used, in that many of our poor spending habits have been better, but the good spending ones need to be learned. I think that's a good point, and I agree with you.

As far as a set savings amount, I'd like to revisit the idea after my wife goes back to work after the baby is here. I think it's like OF said and that's basically if you adjust the amount of money you have available, then you'll make it work.

Bugamol I definitely still have these aggressive savings goals. I'm looking forward to just starting to pay down debt only secondly to having our son right now. I really want to start making a dent on the car, since like n8r said that's kind of the big focus here in 2015 I think.

CuddleChunks thanks for the recipe I'll definitely be trying that this weekend. I'm OK with paying a bit more since I can't find too many commercials salsas I like anyway.

re: Quicken - I just started using Quicken Web or whatever for my business accounting, so I would perhaps be open to checking it out for personal use. Especially if like Sig says the reports are better. I like reports.

# ? Feb 4, 2015 03:13

PitViper: May 25, 2003; Welcome and thank you for shopping at Wal-Mart!
I love you!

SiGmA_X posted:

A) Amazon sent him the wrong bag of food and charged him for it, so he is going to use it.

B) Why don't you use Quicken for budgeting too, and what version of Quicken do you use? I use Quicken, but I don't use its budgeting tools (excel is my go-to, I also use YNAB mostly to be able to know what everyone else on the forums is doing with it, but I kind of like it too. Minus it's lovely reporting. Quicken FTW.)

I just like Mint's reporting more. I don't shop at very many places, and tend to use cash for any discretionary spending, so the automatic categorization and notification is helpful. I also don't do the "month ahead" thing for anything except our major joint expenditures (mortgage, utilities, car insurances, etc) so Quicken is easier for me to keep track of my personal account balances. I won't pretend that my personal financial methods are perfect, but I stick to a budget and don't have many expenses that aren't/weren't planned for.

# ? Feb 4, 2015 03:46

dreesemonkey: May 14, 2008; Pillbug

KG I've been meaning to post for a while for what's really helped me tremendously with food/grocery budgeting. In short, I simply started counting calories. I'm on a food-budget now. The parallels between dieting and budgeting are pretty much perfect, but the obvious advantages of watching what I eat are:

Tracking what I eat is an eye opener. You never know just how much you're eating until you keep track of it. It's humbling and slightly depressing that gaining weight is not a mystery, I could easily eat 3000 calories in a day and think I did "alright".
I'm forced to plan ahead if I want to stick to my diet. This means more careful grocery shopping/packing lunch, etc. This helps eliminate "laziness/convenience" food.
Since I have a finite amount of calories to eat, I have saved SO MUCH MONEY by not buying junk I don't need at the store or eating fast food, etc. I do spend a lot on things like smoothie supplies, but I don't give a poo poo because overall I'm eating way better and much less. If it's more expensive than buying doughnuts, so be it.
On the whole I feel and sleep much better. No more heartburn/reflux at night, more energy throughout the day. Pretty rad.
If you can find a few key meals you really like, it will simplify things greatly.

From your past posts I know you're a desk jockey like me and it sounds like your only real exercise/activity is walking the dogs. Walking is my exercise too, since I don't really have a lot of time at home I'll take a 2 mile walk most days while I'm at work to get up and get out for a little bit. Since I'm not very active I have to be really strict with my diet to get any results.

As a disclaimer, I will admit just because these things work for me doesn't mean they'll work for everyone. I have a few things going for me that makes it easier to stick to a diet.

I lose weight fairly quickly. I'm sure there are some people who absolutely can't lose an lb or two by 100% sticking to their diet, but I will say I typically err on the side of caution. Most people who do not actually track their foods grossly underestimate what they eat or overestimate what they think their activity level is (or both). I don't factor my pitiful excuse for exercise into my daily calories at all. If I burn 200cal walking, I don't get to eat an extra 200 calories.
I'm pretty boring and I'm fine with eating mostly the same things for a lot of my meals. My breakfast is pretty much always a smoothie and coffee (~350calories), and lunch is a spinach salad and either leftovers or a sandwhich or something. Today is a roast beef sandwich so my lunch total is about 600 calories.
Last month I bought a new blender ($130) and I had already had a food scale (~$25) so if you want to do things right, sometimes there is an upfront cost. Don't use this as an excuse to go buy poo poo. I had consistently been making breakfast smoothies every day and then our blender jar broke so I justified the cost of the new blender since I have a proven track record of using it. My wife has just started having smoothies every morning too so it made sense in this case.

# ? Feb 4, 2015 17:55

Knyteguy: Jul 6, 2005; YES to love
NO to shirts; Toilet Rascal

dreesemonkey posted:

KG I've been meaning to post for a while for what's really helped me tremendously with food/grocery budgeting. In short, I simply started counting calories. I'm on a food-budget now. The parallels between dieting and budgeting are pretty much perfect, but the obvious advantages of watching what I eat are:

Tracking what I eat is an eye opener. You never know just how much you're eating until you keep track of it. It's humbling and slightly depressing that gaining weight is not a mystery, I could easily eat 3000 calories in a day and think I did "alright".

I'm forced to plan ahead if I want to stick to my diet. This means more careful grocery shopping/packing lunch, etc. This helps eliminate "laziness/convenience" food.

Since I have a finite amount of calories to eat, I have saved SO MUCH MONEY by not buying junk I don't need at the store or eating fast food, etc. I do spend a lot on things like smoothie supplies, but I don't give a poo poo because overall I'm eating way better and much less. If it's more expensive than buying doughnuts, so be it.

On the whole I feel and sleep much better. No more heartburn/reflux at night, more energy throughout the day. Pretty rad.

If you can find a few key meals you really like, it will simplify things greatly.

From your past posts I know you're a desk jockey like me and it sounds like your only real exercise/activity is walking the dogs. Walking is my exercise too, since I don't really have a lot of time at home I'll take a 2 mile walk most days while I'm at work to get up and get out for a little bit. Since I'm not very active I have to be really strict with my diet to get any results.

As a disclaimer, I will admit just because these things work for me doesn't mean they'll work for everyone. I have a few things going for me that makes it easier to stick to a diet.

I lose weight fairly quickly. I'm sure there are some people who absolutely can't lose an lb or two by 100% sticking to their diet, but I will say I typically err on the side of caution. Most people who do not actually track their foods grossly underestimate what they eat or overestimate what they think their activity level is (or both). I don't factor my pitiful excuse for exercise into my daily calories at all. If I burn 200cal walking, I don't get to eat an extra 200 calories.

I'm pretty boring and I'm fine with eating mostly the same things for a lot of my meals. My breakfast is pretty much always a smoothie and coffee (~350calories), and lunch is a spinach salad and either leftovers or a sandwhich or something. Today is a roast beef sandwich so my lunch total is about 600 calories.

Last month I bought a new blender ($130) and I had already had a food scale (~$25) so if you want to do things right, sometimes there is an upfront cost. Don't use this as an excuse to go buy poo poo. I had consistently been making breakfast smoothies every day and then our blender jar broke so I justified the cost of the new blender since I have a proven track record of using it. My wife has just started having smoothies every morning too so it made sense in this case.

Hm, I've tried using MyFitnessPal in the past for this, but the Windows Phone App sucks (work issued, no reason to buy a second phone). Alright I'll give this a go again. I also like the idea of a walk during lunch. I used to do that and I'd like to start again. I miss having a job that kept me ridiculously fit; I just don't miss the pay.

Thanks.

# ? Feb 4, 2015 23:52

Knyteguy: Jul 6, 2005; YES to love
NO to shirts; Toilet Rascal

Trying to cut heating costs this month. If we could cut $50 every month then that's $600. Pretty significant. Just gotta keep the baby warm (but maybe blankets would work fine? http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-21537988 ) since we have blankets up the rear end and a million other things to stay warm in this freezing 50� weather.

e: and I'm joking about the baby thing in case anyone is wondering.

# ? Feb 5, 2015 00:10

Droo: Jun 25, 2003

Do you have one of those hot water circulating pumps that they love so much here in NV? Turning that thing off could save you almost $50/month.

# ? Feb 5, 2015 00:14

Inverse Icarus: Dec 4, 2003; I run SyncRPG, and produce original, digital content for the Pathfinder RPG, designed from the ground up to be played online.

Knyteguy posted:

freezing 50� weather.

Seriously though, cutting the heat a little bit can save you a ton of money. Blankets, sweatshirts, and thick socks will keep you warmer than a furnace ever could. Good luck and stay warm!

# ? Feb 5, 2015 00:18

Knyteguy: Jul 6, 2005; YES to love
NO to shirts; Toilet Rascal

Droo posted:

Do you have one of those hot water circulating pumps that they love so much here in NV? Turning that thing off could save you almost $50/month.

Hm, I don't think so. Is that something that keeps the floors warm, or allows for instant hot water? If so then no to both.

I have some other ideas we can use to try to cut utility costs this month also. Gonna take it as a challenge.

Are you in NV also?

# ? Feb 5, 2015 00:20

Knyteguy: Jul 6, 2005; YES to love
NO to shirts; Toilet Rascal

Inverse Icarus posted:

Seriously though, cutting the heat a little bit can save you a ton of money. Blankets, sweatshirts, and thick socks will keep you warmer than a furnace ever could. Good luck and stay warm!

Thanks. I was joking about the weather though - it has been unusually warm here.

We've been keeping the thermostat around 68 degrees, but like you said I bet if we're resourceful we could make it work at a colder temp. At one lovely apartment of mine I ended up taping thick plastic to all outside exposed areas (sliding glass door, windows) and I didn't even need the heater on after that... We could also look into that, as our main living areas do have some big windows that naturally let some cold in.

# ? Feb 5, 2015 00:24

Droo: Jun 25, 2003

Yeah I'm in Vegas. It's the "instant hot water" pump I was talking about. It would just be a little pump near your water heater that constantly cycles water through all the hot water pipes in your house, effectively turning all the PVC in the house into a hot water tank. Which is also why they waste so much energy - PVC isn't exactly good at insulating.

I had never seen one before I moved out here. I found some guy's heat loss analysis online that claimed in his house it would waste about $600/year in natural gas to keep it running.

# ? Feb 5, 2015 00:25

Knyteguy: Jul 6, 2005; YES to love
NO to shirts; Toilet Rascal

Droo posted:

Yeah I'm in Vegas. It's the "instant hot water" pump I was talking about. It would just be a little pump near your water heater that constantly cycles water through all the hot water pipes in your house, effectively turning all the PVC in the house into a hot water tank. Which is also why they waste so much energy - PVC isn't exactly good at insulating.

I had never seen one before I moved out here. I found some guy's heat loss analysis online that claimed in his house it would waste about $600/year in natural gas to keep it running.

Ah alright yes I've heard those are popular. That's crazy though I just run the water while I'm brushing my teeth or something. I can't imagine paying that much for on demand hot water personally.

Down there though it seems like you guys would want something like that for cold water.

# ? Feb 5, 2015 00:42

spwrozek: Sep 4, 2006; Sail when it's windy

Knyteguy posted:

Thanks. I was joking about the weather though - it has been unusually warm here.

We've been keeping the thermostat around 68 degrees, but like you said I bet if we're resourceful we could make it work at a colder temp. At one lovely apartment of mine I ended up taping thick plastic to all outside exposed areas (sliding glass door, windows) and I didn't even need the heater on after that... We could also look into that, as our main living areas do have some big windows that naturally let some cold in.

5:30-6:30 am 67F, 6:30-5pm 58F, 5-9:30 67F, 9:30-5:30am 60F

Works wonders on keeping the bill down (helps if the thermostat is programmable).

Plastic on the windows doors save a lot as well, especially in older less efficient places.

# ? Feb 5, 2015 01:26

spinst: Jul 14, 2012

I feel you on that one KG.

I haven't turned my heat above 62 since mid-December and my bill was still $154 this month.

I will never live in a place with an upstairs again.

# ? Feb 5, 2015 02:01

dreesemonkey: May 14, 2008; Pillbug

Knyteguy posted:

Hm, I've tried using MyFitnessPal in the past for this, but the Windows Phone App sucks (work issued, no reason to buy a second phone). Alright I'll give this a go again. I also like the idea of a walk during lunch. I used to do that and I'd like to start again. I miss having a job that kept me ridiculously fit; I just don't miss the pay.

Thanks.

If you're going to give MFP a try again you can find me on there with the same username. I've already got tuyop added on there

The walks are the best part of my work days, I can catch up on a podcast and just think for a while without being in front of a computer. Highly recommended.

# ? Feb 5, 2015 02:34

SiGmA_X: May 3, 2004; SiGmA_X

Droo posted:

Yeah I'm in Vegas. It's the "instant hot water" pump I was talking about. It would just be a little pump near your water heater that constantly cycles water through all the hot water pipes in your house, effectively turning all the PVC in the house into a hot water tank. Which is also why they waste so much energy - PVC isn't exactly good at insulating.

I had never seen one before I moved out here. I found some guy's heat loss analysis online that claimed in his house it would waste about $600/year in natural gas to keep it running.

Smart people who install this INSULATE their hot water pipes... I have never heard of it un-insulated before.

# ? Feb 5, 2015 06:33

spwrozek: Sep 4, 2006; Sail when it's windy

SiGmA_X posted:

Smart people who install this INSULATE their hot water pipes... I have never heard of it un-insulated before.

If it is added after a few years after the house is built most of the pipes if not all will not be accessible.

Back when I worked construction I would say at least 3/4 of them I saw installed had no pipe insulation.

# ? Feb 5, 2015 06:46

SiGmA_X: May 3, 2004; SiGmA_X

spwrozek posted:

If it is added after a few years after the house is built most of the pipes if not all will not be accessible.

Back when I worked construction I would say at least 3/4 of them I saw installed had no pipe insulation.

How do you install the loops after the house is built?

# ? Feb 5, 2015 07:27

spwrozek: Sep 4, 2006; Sail when it's windy

SiGmA_X posted:

How do you install the loops after the house is built?

I don't know how they do it but people get instant hot water. I never really liked into it. You bring up a good point.

E: it is mostly because I am dumb and it is late... I am just thinking of tankless technology... Sigh

spwrozek fucked around with this message at 07:35 on Feb 5, 2015

# ? Feb 5, 2015 07:32

SiGmA_X: May 3, 2004; SiGmA_X

spwrozek posted:

I don't know how they do it but people get instant hot water. I never really liked into it. You bring up a good point.

Ah I was hoping you would know! The only way I know how to do it is with a looped system and a pump, and I've never heard of those being installed without insulation. I think they're only really beneficial if you either have money to burn ($600/yr sounds massively excessive - unless its uninsulated and not on a timer), you live in a place with limited water or expensive water, or you just want instant hot water everywhere.

This is the only type I have ever seen installed before, and always with insulation:

This same (random Google sourced) company also offers the other type, and I can see how it would be really wasteful if retrofitted!
http://www.redytemp.com/hot-water-recirculator-how-it-works2.htm

E: Oh! Instant hot. Makes sense. But thanks for making me wonder how non-looped recirculating hot worked. I only kind of understand, and I fully think its a bad idea. Insulated PEX in a loop seems so much smarter to me...

# ? Feb 5, 2015 07:42

sheri: Dec 30, 2002

Babies sleeping with blankets before they are a year old is a SIDS risk and not recommended by the AAP or anyone at all really.

# ? Feb 5, 2015 13:57

Droo: Jun 25, 2003

SiGmA_X posted:

Smart people who install this INSULATE their hot water pipes... I have never heard of it un-insulated before.

I am not actually sure if my hot water pipes are insulated or not. Even if they are, it looks like I would need 2+ inches of fiberglass insulation on all of them to get anywhere near my hot water heater's R value (R-16). And even if they had a similar R value, cycling hot water through them constantly would still add a ton of surface area to the whole system.

This was the page I found with the most interesting information: http://www.builditsolar.com/Projects/Conservation/Recirc/RecircEnergy.htm

My solution was to put the pump on a zwave outlet and tie it into my home automation system - so I can program it to turn on based on any sort of automation rule, or push a button on a keyfob if I want it to run for a few minutes. I have a 3500 square foot house, the pump is only 25 watts, and it only takes about 30-60 seconds for it to make the "instant hot water" available at the furthest faucet. I was pretty surprised how fast it works.

# ? Feb 5, 2015 14:27

Knyteguy: Jul 6, 2005; YES to love
NO to shirts; Toilet Rascal

dreesemonkey posted:

If you're going to give MFP a try again you can find me on there with the same username. I've already got tuyop added on there

The walks are the best part of my work days, I can catch up on a podcast and just think for a while without being in front of a computer. Highly recommended.

Alright cool will do.

sheri posted:

Babies sleeping with blankets before they are a year old is a SIDS risk and not recommended by the AAP or anyone at all really.

Oh I know we have the right kind of things for newborns. It looks like a pouch or something.

Speaking of which the due date is 8 days away, although I'm expecting the baby to come late as that seems somewhat standard.

# ? Feb 5, 2015 17:36

foxatee: Feb 27, 2010; That foxatee is always making a Piggles out of herself.

If that child tries to spring free on the 11th, shove it back into her cooter, thanks.

# ? Feb 5, 2015 18:38

My Rhythmic Crotch: Jan 13, 2011

foxatee posted:

If that child tries to spring free on the 11th, shove it back into her cooter, thanks.

What?

# ? Feb 5, 2015 18:49

SiGmA_X: May 3, 2004; SiGmA_X

Droo posted:

I am not actually sure if my hot water pipes are insulated or not. Even if they are, it looks like I would need 2+ inches of fiberglass insulation on all of them to get anywhere near my hot water heater's R value (R-16). And even if they had a similar R value, cycling hot water through them constantly would still add a ton of surface area to the whole system.

This was the page I found with the most interesting information: http://www.builditsolar.com/Projects/Conservation/Recirc/RecircEnergy.htm

My solution was to put the pump on a zwave outlet and tie it into my home automation system - so I can program it to turn on based on any sort of automation rule, or push a button on a keyfob if I want it to run for a few minutes. I have a 3500 square foot house, the pump is only 25 watts, and it only takes about 30-60 seconds for it to make the "instant hot water" available at the furthest faucet. I was pretty surprised how fast it works.

Is yours a loop? You'd see 3 'feeds' under a sink. That sounds like a smart way to do it, loops or not; my folks have the loops (not hooked up) in their cabin, all my dads research said to put a timer on it. They used ~1.5" foam pipe insulation, depending on foam type it should be ~R12ish.

# ? Feb 5, 2015 19:15

Knyteguy: Jul 6, 2005; YES to love
NO to shirts; Toilet Rascal

We cut pet costs moving forward permanently. We're going from automatic scooping cat boxes to old school style. We made the new cat boxes out of totes and I jigsawed the openings on the lids last night.

New pet budget going forward should now be about $80-$85 with the new pet food. And we're still on track to meet the pet budget this month after the new stuff.

Total monthly savings $65-70 from pet cost cutting over the last couple months. With the new power saving measures we're taking with the lower thermostat setting (we don't have a programmable thermostat spwrozek)... hopefully our expenses will drop about $100 a month total. I think that's pretty respectable. I'll keep looking for these opportunities to cut.

# ? Feb 6, 2015 17:22

Robo Boogie Bot: Sep 4, 2011

A programmable thermostat isn't expensive, less than $50 for a 5/2 day unit. Just plan ahead and budget for it. Until then, it's not hard to just turn the heat down before bed. Someone has the make the sacrifice of getting up and turning it on in the morning though.

# ? Feb 6, 2015 20:01

Knyteguy: Jul 6, 2005; YES to love
NO to shirts; Toilet Rascal

Robo Boogie Bot posted:

A programmable thermostat isn't expensive, less than $50 for a 5/2 day unit. Just plan ahead and budget for it. Until then, it's not hard to just turn the heat down before bed. Someone has the make the sacrifice of getting up and turning it on in the morning though.

Hm alright I was wondering what the forum would say. I've been looking into them for the past couple of months actually thinking it could save us some money. Our house is super well insulated from the owners, so it's actually not too bad even with the thermostat down. Here's a picture from the attic:

That's about 3 feet (tall) of insulation that runs over the entire living room and some of the MBR. Awful for trying to fish cords through the walls, but at 60�F it's actually still pretty cozy. Sometimes even hot.

I bet we could pay for a new thermostat out of household goods by March or April though. Just a standard one like you're saying.

# ? Feb 6, 2015 20:29

Hawkperson: Jun 20, 2003

Nice job on the pet costs, that was smartly done. I guess scooping the litter is your job, right? (Considering the toxoplasmosis risk to pregnant women)

Have you purchased any groceries yet this month? Post a receipt pic or tally it up yourself into staples and treats (or however you want to divide it). I solemnly swear I am not trying to set you up for people to nag you about a bag of chips or whatever. I just remember doing this myself and being totally shocked at just how much of my grocery bill went to poo poo that wasn't for breakfast, lunch, or dinner. "It's just two dollars for this 8oz bag of junk" I would think, until I compared it to the cost of poo poo that was actually good for me, like snacky vegetables.

# ? Feb 6, 2015 20:55

Nocheez: Sep 5, 2000; Can you spare a little cheddar?; Nap Ghost

See if your landlord would deduct the cost of a programmable thermostat from your rent if you install it yourself. You save money on energy costs, they Dave money on reduced wear and tear on the hvac.

Re: grocery chat, if you have Aldis nearby, start shopping there immediately. I have reduced my food costs by around 25% by buying my staple items there. Just don't give in to temptation to buy junk food. Having only healthy choices available makes it much easier to stock to a healthy diet. I try to put good snacking options front and center in my fridge and pantry, so they are the first things I see.

Nocheez fucked around with this message at 21:27 on Feb 6, 2015

# ? Feb 6, 2015 21:22

Knyteguy: Jul 6, 2005; YES to love
NO to shirts; Toilet Rascal

Hawkgirl posted:

Nice job on the pet costs, that was smartly done. I guess scooping the litter is your job, right? (Considering the toxoplasmosis risk to pregnant women)

Have you purchased any groceries yet this month? Post a receipt pic or tally it up yourself into staples and treats (or however you want to divide it). I solemnly swear I am not trying to set you up for people to nag you about a bag of chips or whatever. I just remember doing this myself and being totally shocked at just how much of my grocery bill went to poo poo that wasn't for breakfast, lunch, or dinner. "It's just two dollars for this 8oz bag of junk" I would think, until I compared it to the cost of poo poo that was actually good for me, like snacky vegetables.

Thanks. Yes I do take care of the litter.

We did purchase groceries... but I don't have the receipts anymore. I forgot I was going to split it up and let you guys have a look. I'll try to remember to do that next round.

Nocheez posted:

See if your landlord would deduct the cost of a programmable thermostat from your rent if you install it yourself. You save money on energy costs, they Dave money on reduced wear and tear on the hvac.

Re: grocery chat, if you have Aldis nearby, start shopping there immediately. I have reduced my food costs by around 25% by buying my staple items there. Just don't give in to temptation to buy junk food. Having only healthy choices available makes it much easier to stock to a healthy diet. I try to put good snacking options front and center in my fridge and pantry, so they are the first things I see.

Alright I'll see what the landlord says re the thermostat. That'd be great. Who knows they may just opt to take care of it all themselves too.

No Aldis unfortunately - I just used their store locator and there doesn't appear to be one anywhere near us. I like the idea of keeping healthy snacks up front. Maybe I'll try keeping (junk food) chips in the cupboard instead of on top of the fridge too.

# ? Feb 7, 2015 01:44

Old Fart: Jul 25, 2013

The best place to keep junk food chips is at the store.

That poo poo is a downward spiral.

# ? Feb 7, 2015 02:44

DogsCantBudget: Jul 8, 2013

Knyteguy posted:

Thanks. Yes I do take care of the litter.

We did purchase groceries... but I don't have the receipts anymore. I forgot I was going to split it up and let you guys have a look. I'll try to remember to do that next round.

Alright I'll see what the landlord says re the thermostat. That'd be great. Who knows they may just opt to take care of it all themselves too.

No Aldis unfortunately - I just used their store locator and there doesn't appear to be one anywhere near us. I like the idea of keeping healthy snacks up front. Maybe I'll try keeping (junk food) chips in the cupboard instead of on top of the fridge too.

I would do some quick research...some utilities will actually give you a programmable thermostat for free, and potentially even install it! Check with your electric/gas provider...

# ? Feb 7, 2015 02:56

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# ? May 13, 2024 00:47

CuddleChunks: Sep 18, 2004

Good job on cutting pet costs!

Here's something you can try now that you're in your new house and have an item you want to save for. Go and find an envelope and write "Programmable Thermostat" on the front. If you've got some change or spare bills then slip them in there.

You've just started a saving's account earmarked for something you want in the future. If you are feeling extra sassy, you could look up some models you like and print out a little pic with their cost next to them and tape it onto the envelope.

Whenever you have some spare change from daily purchases then slip it into the envelope.

Wait until the envelope fills with enough money to afford the thermostat you want and then you take that money and go buy the thing.

Give this a try! You don't need a new thermostat right now, it's a luxury so save for it. Maybe in a month of putting money in there you decide you don't want one after all. No problem, roll that cash over into something else.

# ? Feb 7, 2015 05:32

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Ask/Tell > Business, Finance, and Careers > Knyteguy's Finances: More harebrained schemes than a sitcom dad

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