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Another Leopard? Big deal.
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Feb 4, 2015 23:44
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Tank spies of WWI When the first British MkI tanks reached the battlefield, intelligence workers all over the world found their hands full. Placed as observers, military attaches, or as spies behind enemy lines, agents began exploring the topic of "land battleships". Since 1910, intelligence and counterintelligence in Russia was controlled by the Special Department of the General Quartermaster of the Chief Directorate of the General Staff. Its office was the one receiving information from foreign agents. After the debut of tanks in September of 1916 at the Somme, Russian intelligence passed on information found in British press on these new events. Their opinions were, at first, very critical. For instance, a message written on December 10th, 1916: "All data on English tanks, both from a mechanical and a tactical point of view, shows that they do not present a significant interest, which is further confirmed by the English abandoning them". When he talked of abandonment, the author meant that British engineers already began work on modernization of the first tank and other types of this weapon. Scepticism to Interest Two months is not a lot of time. However, it was a new year, and tank building made a step forward. One Russian military attache was able to attend British tank trials. His report was different from previous ones: "Trials were carried out on clay soil, soft from rain, with a fairly sound foundation. Tanks crossed huge steep holes up to 8 feet deep, a robust parapet, and an ordinary brick English house. The tank broke up its walls and crossed over the wreckage ... Trials went very well." The use of the word "tank" as a feminine word is curious, but remember that the English word "tank" came into military use only a few months before that. It will be a while before it enters the vocabulary of people all over the world. In this document, another section is of interest. "Tanks have been improved compared to what I saw in September on the English front." As it is unlikely that an agent would confuse early fall of 1916 with November, this means that Russian intelligence already knew about its ally's work on tanks long before they were used in battle. The message included news that the vehicles were armed with Lewis guns. It can be said without a doubt that the nameless scout observed MkIV tanks, as they were the first to carry these weapons. Their side and top armour was improved. It is important to note that these tanks arrived to the front lines in April of 1917, and fought their first battle on June 7th. Again, Russian military intelligence was aware of the newest vehicles months before they reached the battlefield. Behind Enemy Lines The most interesting intelligence work was targeting German tanks. One of the residents wrote: "Various sources report that there are two types of tanks, big and small... Tanks have a rounded shape in front, with a 35 degree slope." The Germans indeed had a number of tank designs, but this description matches the famous Colossal. The same title would be given to Krupp's superheavy gun that shot at Paris in 1918. A weapon of such magnitude was needed on tracks. The Colossal, or K-Wagen, was created as a superheavy breakthrough tank that would sweep away French defenses with its 150 tons of mass. The rhombus shape of British was smoothed out to armoured ovals in the front and rear. The project was approved at the end of June 1917, and not even a model was made until next year. Thanks to intelligence professionals, Russian high command obtained sketches of the Kaiser's "vengeance weapon". They also retrieved information on another German tank which actually got to fight: the A7V. "Another type [of tank] was very large, the size of a railroad car", an agent in Ogenkwar wrote. This was a good comparison. The 30-ton tank was also symmetric, and carried a record of 18 men. Each one had it rough due to the heat inside the tank. The heavyweight A7V was clumsy, heavily armoured, and had poor visibility and cripplingly small firing angles, even worse on the MkI. Only 20 of these tanks were built, and they had little influence on the battlefield of WWI. Kamikaze Tankettes and the best anti-tank weapons Russian intelligence also intercepted information about German work on early transporters of explosive charges, something like Borgward tankettes used in WWII. "Sources indicate that the Germans propose the use of small automobiles, akin to English "tanks", to destroy enemy wire and trenches. Loaded with explosive or poisonous substances, they are directed towards the enemy with no crew. The explosion is controlled by a clockwork mechanism", one agent wrote. There is only one vehicle of this type known to be built in WWI, the French Torpille Terrestre, or "land torpedo". Controlled by wire, this tankette would approach enemy lines and destroy them with explosives. A prototype was built in 1915, but that was it. It is difficult to say what the German analogue would have been like, as information is lacking. Obviously this information on new tanks caused development of methods to fight them. Here, specialists of the Entente matched each other. "Our artillery, same as the English, is considered the main method of combat with heavy armoured cars." The 37 mm trench cannon firing AP grenades at short ranges was considered the most effective weapon. It is known that the Russian military had no tanks. However, Austrian WWI reports include a mention of Russian attacks on Austro-Hungarian positions at Bukovina, allegedly supported by two tanks. These were likely Garford armoured cars equipped with cannons, but the enemy faced those before, and it is difficult to confuse tracked and wheeled vehicles. What could they have been? It looks like another mystery of early tank building.
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Feb 5, 2015 00:48
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Cippalippus posted:Another Leopard? Big deal. New avatar 
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Feb 5, 2015 01:07
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Ensign Expendable posted:Tank spies of WWI Please post about insane russian tripod tanks and ufo boats, tia.
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Feb 5, 2015 01:29
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Crash74 posted:Please post about insane russian tripod tanks and ufo boats, tia. I wrote this for The Mittani recently, seems like it's up your alley. No tripod tanks though.
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Feb 5, 2015 01:45
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Loving Africa Chaps posted:just installed battle assistant and holy poo poo it's amazing for arty. Shame i'm still terrible though. One question i had is does ammo go boom if you get destroyed? If i load a few gold rounds in a tank for occasions when i come up against a higher tier do i pay for it again every time i die? Also do not spend actual gold for ammo. In the loadout change the listbox so you pay credits (silver) instead of gold.
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Feb 5, 2015 01:47
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What's a good book to stop somebody from believing in the Krupp Steel mythos? I have an acquaintance who was arguing about German/Soviet K/D ratios and I want to shoot myself.
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Feb 5, 2015 01:47
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Slim Jim Pickens posted:What's a good book to stop somebody from believing in the Krupp Steel mythos? I have an acquaintance who was arguing about German/Soviet K/D ratios and I want to shoot myself. Shoot him instead. You'll feel much better.
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Feb 5, 2015 01:49
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This is the one I picked up a few months back. It did a really good job of breaking down mostly what went wrong and also what sorta went right for the Tiger.
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Feb 5, 2015 01:50
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Slim Jim Pickens posted:What's a good book to stop somebody from believing in the Krupp Steel mythos? I have an acquaintance who was arguing about German/Soviet K/D ratios and I want to shoot myself. Feed him Zaloga in a continuous stream.
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Feb 5, 2015 01:50
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saintonan posted:Also do not spend actual gold for ammo. In the loadout change the listbox so you pay credits (silver) instead of gold. But make sure you tell the pubbies you spend gold on it.
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Feb 5, 2015 01:50
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Slim Jim Pickens posted:What's a good book to stop somebody from believing in the Krupp Steel mythos? I have an acquaintance who was arguing about German/Soviet K/D ratios and I want to shoot myself. Anything which explains what actually wins wars on an operational level. Hint: it isn't tank 'K/D ratios'.
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Feb 5, 2015 02:05
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Ensign still keeps this thread up despite all my efforts!
The Southern Dandy fucked around with this message at 02:14 on Feb 5, 2015 |
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Feb 5, 2015 02:12
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I hope Wargaming doesn't listen to the game design advice from their boats alpha testers. They have multiple very active forum posters who are desperate to make boats not fun. 
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Feb 5, 2015 03:15
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If wargaming listened to some of their testers battleships would be unsinkable gods and torpedoes would be wet noodles.
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Feb 5, 2015 03:18
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One of the best evenings I've had in world of tanks, alternating between my mediums. In between I tried my heavies, the is-6, e100 and tiger, literally every time I was one-shot by a G.W Tiger or T-92 about 3 mins into the game. gently caress heavy tanks, gently caress arty.
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Feb 5, 2015 03:31
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sarmhan posted:If wargaming listened to some of their testers battleships would be unsinkable gods and torpedoes would be wet noodles. I've suggested on numerous occasions they should put space battleship Yamato in the game but nooooo.
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Feb 5, 2015 03:54
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Look, we should accurately model the massive superiority of the USN. I want my drat AWACS planes. Also radar gunfire OP, apparently the Iowa and New Jersey straddled a destroyer at 22 mi with their first salvo late in the war (Nowachi, it's in Kawachi's record of movement).
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Feb 5, 2015 04:14
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demonR6 posted:I've suggested on numerous occasions they should put space battleship Yamato in the game but nooooo. I'd argue that the Space Battleship variant did way more for Japan than the original Sea Battleship version. It deserves inclusion WG!
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Feb 5, 2015 04:20
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Slim Jim Pickens posted:What's a good book to stop somebody from believing in the Krupp Steel mythos? I have an acquaintance who was arguing about German/Soviet K/D ratios and I want to shoot myself. I'd be tempted to do Lorraine 1944: Patton versus Manteuffel by Zaloga. Highlights include the French and Americans drubbing the everloving poo poo out of Germans. The Battle of Dompaire is beautiful because it's Frenchmen using American weapons and doctrine, so by dumb people myths they have everything wrong and they just utterly plaster the Germans. Actually screw it, here's a thing I wrote drawing heavily on it: The Battle of Arracourt The Battle of Arracourt was the result of a German counterattack to try and counter a potential US attack into the Saar region by the 3rd Army under George S. Patton. The German forces were based around tank force concentrated in a new series of tank brigades, most formed around the remnants of units destroyed during Operation Bagration. The 5th Panzer Army was built around three such brigades, the 111th, 112th, and 113th, each armed with 45 Panthers, 45 Panzer IVs and 10 Pz. IV/70 tank destroyers. Unfortunately these formations were intended as counterattack forces for the Eastern front and were weak in infantry, artillery, reconnaissance, and support. The US forces were based on the 3rd Army, containing the US 4th, 6th and 7th Armored Divisions, and the French 2nd Armored Division. The Allied forces had much better combined arms organization (for example the US armored divisions had three battalions each of Tanks, Armored Infantry and Armored Field Artillery). The US also had far superior artillery and air support. The fighting began when Panzer Brigade 106 attempted a spoiling attack against the US 90th Infantry Division 8 September, but in the night its components were separated and all except Stossgruppe A, with a quarter its force, were destroyed as functional units by encirclements and US defenses. The next fighting occurred near Dompaire, where Allied attacks threatened the staging areas for the German Fifth Panzer Army. The French 2nd Armored Division had punched a Combat Command through the German lines and the German 64th Corps was threatening collapse. Combat Command Langlade included 45 M4A2 with 75mm guns, three M4A2 with 76mm guns, 9-12 M10 tank destroyers and three to six companies of infantry. The Germans sent Pz. Brig. 112 and a combat group of the 21st Panzer Division (I/Pz. Rgt. 29) to defeat the French forces. The French forces encountered strong German resistance, and expertly coordinated air strikes destroyed some tanks, while the French used the cover of the second to get into position and trap the German tanks. A hasty roadblock stopped a relief force from Pz. Brig. 112, and after the resulting fight the I/Pz.Rgt. 29 had lost 34 of its Panthers and had four operational, and Pz. Brig. 112 had been reduced to 21 tanks of its 90 and lost 350 dead and 1,000 wounded. French losses were five M4A2 tanks, two M5A1 tanks, two half-tracks, two jeeps; 44 killed and a single P-47 was shot down. The next fighting was over Arracourt itself. It began on 18 September with an attack by the 47th Panzer corps, consisting of Pz. Brig. 111, the remnants of Pz. Brig. 112 moved to Luneville, where they encountered an outpost of the US 42nd Cav. Sqn., which fought a tenacious defense with M8 howitzer motor carriages and dismounted troops, which bought time for the 2nd Cavalry Group to withdraw through the town and call for reinforcements. Combat command A (CCA) of the 4th Armored Division and elements of CCB of the 6th Armd. Div. rushed to the scene of the fight, where they began a close range firefight, where the US heavy artillery fire forced the Germans back. The German plans changed at that point, with Nancy becoming the main objective, in order to rescue trapped German forces. Pz. Brig. 111 was assigned to the 58th Panzer Corps, which would take the main brunt of the offensive. Pz. Brig. 111 and Pz. Brig. 113 were tasked to attack the 4th Armd. Div.'s CCA, and even though Pz. Brig. 111 became lost during the night, Pz. Brig. 113 had a 2:1 advantage. The first contact by either side on the 19th was when a US liaison officer moving between his platoons in a jeep ran into the rear of a German tank column near Moncourt. Because of the fog, he was able to escape undetected and reported to the 37th Tank Bn. commander, Lt. Col. Creighton Abrams. The German tanks began blundering into the US tanks, which enjoyed better knowledge of local terrain. The first combat of the day occurred when that column, the spearhead of the eastern portion of Pz. Brig. 113, ran into an outpost of M4 tanks from the 37th, and three Panthers were knocked out in close succession. The rest veered off, but the US tanks raced to a commanding ridge, from which position they knocked out four of the remaining Panthers, and then pulled back out and finished off the remaining four. An M18 platoon en route to reinforce the outpost near Lezey made the next contact, and ran into the western spearhead of Pz. Brig. 113, and in the firefight at 150 yards, the four M18s destroyed seven German tanks and forced their retreat for three tank destroyers lost. In the meeting engagements that morning, the tank destroyers knocked out a total of 19 German tanks by mid-afternoon, but at heavy cost, including the battalion commander, killed by mortar fire. Abrams rallied his forces near Arracourt, and sent Cos. A and B to counterattack near Réchicourt, destroying nine Panthers for three M4 medium tanks. By late that day, the 4th Armored Division had destroyed 43 German tanks, mostly new Panthers for six killed, three wounded, three M18s, and five M4 mediums. The attack continued the next day, with Pz. Brig 111 taking the attack. The day's action began with eight German tanks appearing out of the fog 1,000 yards away from the 191st Field Artillery Battalion. The tanks were quickly taken under fire at point-blank range, while tanks and tank destroyers from other units appeared to provide cover. At that point, Abrams ordered the 37th Tank Bn. to clear the area of German tanks. The next action occurred when Company C was ambushed by a company of PzKpfw IVs and anti-tank guns, losing six M4s in seconds. After pulling back and regrouping with Company B, they maneuvered for better positions and re-engaged the German tanks, knocking out 11 for six more losses. A further five panzers were knocked out later in the day. While this occurred, CCB, 4th Armd. Div. was attacking near Chateau Salins, threatening to penetrate between Fifth Panzer Army and First Army north of it. As a result of the poor German showing, Hitler sacked Blaskowitz as overall commander and replaced him with Hermann Balck, who shifted the focus north of Arracourt, which confused the effort further since the German armor was massed south of Arracourt. The German attack on 22 September started with a series of skirmishes where seven M5A1 tanks were knocked out trying to hold off much more powerful German tanks. However, the Germans then ran into M18s which knocked out three of their number. During this delaying action, Abrams moved the 37th Tank Bn. to a hill near Trois Crois overlooking the German reinforcements, taking them under fire and calling in artillery on them. As the retreating Germans were pounded by M7 105mm Howitzer Motor Carriages and P-47s, General Manteuffel, in command of 5th Panzer Army, committed Pz. Brig. 133's remnants to no perceptible effect. In the three days of fighting from 19 to 22 September, CCA, 4th Armd. Div. had lost 14 M4 medium and 7 M5A1 light tanks, 25 killed and 88 wounded, shattering two panzer brigades with 90 Panthers and 90 PzKpfw IVs combined. The Germans resumed their attack on 24 September with the 559th Volksgrenadier Division and the remaining tanks of Pz. Brig. 106. which attacked CCB of 4th Armd. Div.. Despite the 80% cloud cover, two squadrons of P-47s were vectored into the area with radar, and made a skip bombing attack through a gap in the clouds against the Panthers from about 15 feet, then returned to strafe. The German attack collapsed in 15 minutes. On September 25, the Germans attacked again with the Fifth Panzer Army, which had about 50 tanks all together, after merging the shattered brigades with divisions that could use their remaining resources. After an uncontested morning attack, they pressed their attack further but were beaten back by Americans with the high ground and artillery support. After this day, the 37th Tank Bn. was pulled back to rest, and the line was held by three of the 4th Armd. Div.'s armored infantry battalions. After this point, the German tanks were so severely depleted that the infantry were the driving force of the engagement, and the American air power and artillery were telling, resulting in a German withdrawal on 29 September, with only 4 German tanks remaining operational at the end of the day. The last four days had cost the Fifth Panzer Army about 700 killed and 300 wounded, as well as 14 PzKpfw IVs and 22 Panthers. These operations attracted the majority of German panzer forces allowing the British to conduct Market-Garden with much less tank opposition than otherwise, and saw the Third Army crossing the Moselle, placing it in position to relieve the defenders of Bastogne two months later. xthetenth fucked around with this message at 04:30 on Feb 5, 2015 |
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Feb 5, 2015 04:26
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The only thing more entertaining than Space Battleship Yamato is what happened to the real Yamato. Speaking of WoWS testers and terrible people: 
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Feb 5, 2015 04:30
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How can anybody pretend to be human without stuffing their desk area full of monitors?
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Feb 5, 2015 04:37
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sarmhan posted:The only thing more entertaining than Space Battleship Yamato is what happened to the real Yamato. gently caress
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Feb 5, 2015 04:38
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Otacool posers.
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Feb 5, 2015 05:06
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I'm the kawaii imouto on the left
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Feb 5, 2015 05:12
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What's number 14?
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Feb 5, 2015 05:24
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Terrorist Fistbump posted:What's number 14? His cum bowl.
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Feb 5, 2015 05:40
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Hellsau posted:His cum bowl. You just couldn't resist, could you?
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Feb 5, 2015 05:47
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The Southern Dandy posted:You just couldn't resist, could you? I figured we shouldn't humor him and should just tell him the truth. It's anime.
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Feb 5, 2015 06:06
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Hellsau posted:His cum bowl. No way that guy prepares enough to have a cum bowl. It's all over his pants when he goes to get his high fat high sugar high salt consumables from the local store.
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Feb 5, 2015 06:06
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After playing last beta weekende, I JUST learnt that torpedoes from torpedo planes can be launched manually. And I was being a retard, trying to fly them coming in from the right direction and at the right angle because simply clicking on a ship and letting the planes do the work by themselves was a sure way to waste a bunch of torpedoes. I was making it so hard on myself for nothing.  Thanks for this video, I know better for the next one. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QcvvqUvars0 Also, this guy gets some pretty drat nice hits with his BB from a long distance.
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Feb 5, 2015 07:18
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Slim Jim Pickens posted:What's a good book to stop somebody from believing in the Krupp Steel mythos? I have an acquaintance who was arguing about German/Soviet K/D ratios and I want to shoot myself. So, it's not a book and more theatre specific to the Eastern Front,(and has probably been posted in this thread) but I continually recommend that people watch a lecture by Col.Glantz to the US Army War college titled "The Soviet-German War 1941-1945: Myths and Realities. It was an eye-opening lecture for me at the time of watching anyway. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Clz27nghIg sarmhan posted:Speaking of WoWS testers and terrible people: Imagine being a parent and walking into that room every day
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Feb 5, 2015 07:23
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Is there a list of best tanks per tier? I haven't played in a long time, and the tree has grown so much, that I'm overwhelmed in figuring out which tanks to keep, get, or go for. Ideally I'd like to have 2 good tanks per tier on hand, and more if they are also tits. Like I remember the T4 Leopard being cool back when. I'm sure this would change a lot, but appreciate any advice. Edit: Is the KV-1 with the big gun still hilariously fun? Loan Dusty Road fucked around with this message at 07:32 on Feb 5, 2015 |
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Feb 5, 2015 07:29
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Dalael posted:After playing last beta weekende, I JUST learnt that torpedoes from torpedo planes can be launched manually. And I was being a retard, trying to fly them coming in from the right direction and at the right angle because simply clicking on a ship and letting the planes do the work by themselves was a sure way to waste a bunch of torpedoes. I was making it so hard on myself for nothing. I knew you could manually drop torps, but I kept struggling with it, so I never bothered versus the auto drop stuff. With this though, I'd probably do a lot better. Also, I forgot/didn't realize you could window select multiple squads to fly together like that.
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Feb 5, 2015 07:49
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JuffoWup posted:I knew you could manually drop torps, but I kept struggling with it, so I never bothered versus the auto drop stuff. With this though, I'd probably do a lot better. Also, I forgot/didn't realize you could window select multiple squads to fly together like that. I suspected it could be done, but had never found out how. A few times while I was driving (do you drive a boat?  ) my Battleships, I saw torpedo planes drop their torpedoes so close to my ship, there was absolutely nothing I could do to avoid them. I had seen the planes coming for me, started my turn early and yet... The only way to do that would be manual drop. Now that I know how, I can't wait for the next Beta. I was already doing very good with carriers, I can't wait to see how much deadlier I become. Or how fast I get sunk now that more people will know this trick.The top down view of the carrier makes me think more of an RTS than anything else, so selecting multiple squads was one of the first thing I tried, and I would have been really surprised if it had not been implemented. Guys... I miss botes. WG, take my god drat money and give me the game!
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Feb 5, 2015 08:07
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Is there absolute confirmation that the new french tanks are coming off the 13 90? Is there an xp amount listed somewhere so I can get started?
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Feb 5, 2015 08:17
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AlmightyPants posted:Is there absolute confirmation that the new french tanks are coming off the 13 90? Is there an xp amount listed somewhere so I can get started? Just FTR, and for xp 132 -> 120 for 175k, T49 -> T54E1 for 190.1k, Ru 251 -> Leo A for 183k and T-54 lw -> T-54 for 192.2k are the benchmarks, you an start now and you won't get there before a solid number is released
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Feb 5, 2015 08:27
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gently caress Artillery.
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Feb 5, 2015 08:38
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So the combination SU-85B, LefhB2, Luchs, KV-220 and Cromwell actually made the process of going through the individual missions fun. Especially the SU-85B was ridiculous. Do twice your HP in damage was just a joke. I would have used my B2 instead of the KV-220, but consistently doing 1k+ damage in that is kinda hard since you run out of tanks to shoot. For the next SPG mission I apparently need to do 1k damage to a heavy. Time to break out the T92.
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Feb 5, 2015 08:42
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| # ? May 15, 2024 14:41 |
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Dalael posted:After playing last beta weekende, I JUST learnt that torpedoes from torpedo planes can be launched manually. And I was being a retard, trying to fly them coming in from the right direction and at the right angle because simply clicking on a ship and letting the planes do the work by themselves was a sure way to waste a bunch of torpedoes. I was making it so hard on myself for nothing. That's the first gameplay of WoWS I've seen yet, not even gonna bother until torps get removed. How can they make the same arty mistake twice 
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Feb 5, 2015 09:30
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