- GaussianCopula
- Jun 5, 2011
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Jews fleeing the Holocaust are not in any way comparable to North Africans, who don't flee genocide but want to enjoy the social welfare systems of Northern Europe.
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I'd like to point out that this was the predictable, dare I say automatic, reaction of the ECB to Greece leaving the Troika program. They only accepted Greek debt because they were in the program, which logically meant that once Greece decides to unilaterally go "gently caress the troika" and "we are going to roll back every single reform" that they had to stop accepting Greek debt as security. It seems that I was right and Schäuble/Merkel did strike a deal with the rest of Europe, that they will allow Mario to have his money Bazooka in trade for the Eurozone not giving in to Syriza blackmail attempts.
Let's see how they react.
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Feb 5, 2015 07:44
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- Adbot
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ADBOT LOVES YOU
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Jun 3, 2024 16:46
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- LemonDrizzle
- Mar 28, 2012
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neoliberal shithead
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So, if this turns out to be official policy, does this leave Greece with the options of going back to Austerity or Grexit+default? Does the Greek goverment hold any cards they can use at this point, or anything they can hold hostage? Looks to me like they're pretty short of options and the timer just got reduced...
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Feb 5, 2015 09:23
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- Cat Mattress
- Jul 14, 2012
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by Cyrano4747
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The Eurozone is confirmed as being the Fourth Reich.
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Feb 5, 2015 09:42
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- GaussianCopula
- Jun 5, 2011
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Jews fleeing the Holocaust are not in any way comparable to North Africans, who don't flee genocide but want to enjoy the social welfare systems of Northern Europe.
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The Eurozone is confirmed as being the Fourth Reich.
It's more that the Eurozone said "no, you really can't remilitarize the Rhineland, and if you try we are going to crush you".
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Feb 5, 2015 09:49
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- Disinterested
- Jun 29, 2011
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You look like you're still raking it in. Still killing 'em?
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The Eurozone is confirmed as being the Fourth Reich.
Mrs Thatcher would be so happy if she was alive. United Germany is proven to be another reich, but also they're [kiddy-]loving a small country with neo-liberal economics.
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Feb 5, 2015 09:49
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- Double Bill
- Jan 29, 2006
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Finally we can start moving toward a Nordic Federal Union without the German dead weight.
We don't want any of that, we're forming the Neo-Mongol Empire instead.
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Feb 5, 2015 09:53
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- LemonDrizzle
- Mar 28, 2012
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neoliberal shithead
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...aaand Greek bank share prices drop by 23% within minutes of the stock market opening. Are you surprised? I'm surprised.
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Feb 5, 2015 09:54
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- awesome-express
- Dec 30, 2008
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Welp Greece is hosed
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Feb 5, 2015 09:56
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- Cat Mattress
- Jul 14, 2012
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by Cyrano4747
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It's more that the Eurozone said "no, you really can't remilitarize the Rhineland, and if you try we are going to crush you".
Yes because a prosperous Greece would bring about the next Hitler, and so time-travelers from the future have told us it's necessary to make sure they live in the most abject poverty possible.
Sorry, the bad guys in the story are still the Germans. Just a heads-up: austerity never worked anywhere it was tried. Never ever ever in the entire history of the entire world. The only thing austerity achieves is ruining entire nations, precipitating into poverty most of its population. Which is probably your intention, I know.
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Feb 5, 2015 10:45
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- ReV VAdAUL
- Oct 3, 2004
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I'm WILD about
WILDMAN
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Yes because a prosperous Greece would bring about the next Hitler, and so time-travelers from the future have told us it's necessary to make sure they live in the most abject poverty possible.
Sorry, the bad guys in the story are still the Germans. Just a heads-up: austerity never worked anywhere it was tried. Never ever ever in the entire history of the entire world. The only thing austerity achieves is ruining entire nations, precipitating into poverty most of its population. Which is probably your intention, I know.
Come now, Brüning's policies worked wonders for Weimar Germany, they were positively transformational.
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Feb 5, 2015 10:58
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- LemonDrizzle
- Mar 28, 2012
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neoliberal shithead
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The WSJ has a decent article outlining the situation:
http://www.wsj.com/articles/a-lesson-in-reality-for-greeces-new-leaders-1423097855
quote:The professor of economic theory is being given a crash course in economic reality.
In the past week, Yanis Varoufakis has had to perform a number of U-turns in his capacity as Greece’s new finance minister. His party, Syriza, told voters it would demand a debt reduction; now Mr. Varoufakis says it will settle for a debt restructuring. Syriza said it would end austerity; Mr. Varoufakis now says he will run a primary budget surplus even if that means dropping other commitments in the party’s campaign manifesto.
Last week, Mr. Varoufakis said he wouldn’t negotiate with Greece’s official lenders—the infamous “troika”; this week he met officials of all three: the European Central Bank, European Commission and International Monetary Fund.
The message from these institutions has been unambiguous: Mr. Varoufakis and his leader, Prime Minister Alexis Tsipras, will need to make far greater reversals in the coming days if they are to avoid U-turning on their commitment to keep Greece in the eurozone. A move by the ECB on Wednesday night to stop accepting Greek collateral for its regular refinancing facilities will have driven that message home.
What should now be dawning on Greece’s new leadership on their whistle-stop tour of European capitals is that they will almost certainly have to ask the eurozone for a further extension of the country’s current bailout agreement, which is due to expire on Feb. 28, despite promising voters that they would end the bailout.
The reality is that the market won’t fund Greece without international protection, making it impossible for Athens to roll over its debts. The ECB has also been insistent on some form of umbrella being in place as a condition of its continuing to accept Greek junk-rated assets as collateral for its liquidity operations, vital to the operation of the Greek banking system. It was Mr. Tsipras’s stated refusal to ask for an extension of the current program that led the ECB Wednesday to withdraw Greek access to its funding facilities, to shield eurozone taxpayers from exposure to the costs of a Greek banking collapse.
Without an extension, Greece risks a further loss of market confidence, leading to capital flight and bank runs.
...
The only sure way to stabilize Greece in the short term is to use the money available under the bailout program. This includes €11 billion under the program that was made available to recapitalize Greek banks that hasn’t been spent. If the bailout program lapses, the potential to reallocate this money to finance Greece’s government is lost.
Yet extending the current bailout program will require ratification by the other 18 eurozone governments and a number of national parliaments—not to mention the consent of Greece’s parliament, too.
Mr. Varoufakis doesn’t have much time to complete his financial education.
The other impact of the ECB's announcement is that Greek government will not be able to issue t-bills to cover its short term financial needs over the next few months, which it was planning to use to keep things ticking over while it negotiated with the rest of Europe; as things stand, the Greeks have to present an offer that Europe will accept by the end of this month. The author makes the entirely reasonable point that Varoufakis can't very well describe the Greek government as "insolvent" and then expect other people to treat its debt as though it has any value or worth as collateral.
The bit about forcing the newly elected Syriza parliamentarians to vote for the systematic crushing of their entire manifesto is one of the more grimly hilarious bits of this sad little play.
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Feb 5, 2015 11:05
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- Pesmerga
- Aug 1, 2005
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So nice to eat you
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Interesting commentary on the ECB's actions last night.
Coppola Comment posted:The ECB has abruptly announced withdrawal of the "waiver" under which it was prepared to accept Greek sovereign bonds as collateral for liquidity. This created a considerable Twitter storm, with lots of angry people saying the ECB's action was beyond its mandate and far too precipitate: it should at least have waited for the Greek Finance Minister, Yanis Varoufakis, to meet his German counterpart, and it should not be acting as if the bailout programme was ended when negotiations were still proceeding. I admit, I was one of those people.
And I stand by my views. The ECB is acting far beyond its mandate in seeking to influence negotiations between Eurozone member states regarding the terms and conditions under which member states lend to their distressed partners. It has no business interfering in fiscal policy: if the Greek government decides to run 1.5% fiscal surpluses instead of 4.5%, hike minimum wages and create lots of government jobs, it is none of the ECB's business. The ECB's monetary policy failures are legion: it should put its own house in order, rather than interfering with the conduct of fiscal policy. And worse, its persistent interference in fiscal policy is a clear conflict of interest, as the Advocate General of the European Court of Justice noted in relation to the OMT programme. It should not be a member of the Troika at all, and certainly should not use changes in fiscal policy by a democratically-elected sovereign government - even one that has inherited an economy in tatters with a massive debt burden - as justification for limiting liquidity to that country's banking system. Monetary policy should never be used to serve fiscal or political ends. Not ever.
OK, rant over. I've thought about this a bit more now. Something doesn't quite add up.
Firstly, there is the timing. The Syriza government has now been in power for ten days. Why did the ECB wait until now to pull the plug on the waiver? It might simply be that today was the first planned meeting of the Governing Council. But that doesn't exactly suggest that this is an urgent problem - so why is the ECB doing this now, given that the bailout extension is not until 28th February and Greece has already asked for time to come up with an alternative plan?
Secondly, there is the timing. (Yes, I mean that). Varoufakis met ECB chief Mario Draghi yesterday and he meets German Finance Minister Wolfgang Schäuble today. In between those two meetings the ECB pulled the waiver. Why? Well, Schäuble is openly hostile to Varoufakis's ideas of debt relief and an end to austerity, while Draghi has so far kept very quiet (though his deputy Vitor Constancio has been more forthright). Schäuble will no doubt be looking for explicit backing from the ECB. Should this action be taken as the ECB's governing council signalling whose side it is on?
Of course, today's action is not pulling funding from Greek banks, since they can still pledge other assets at the ECB. But all funding using any form of Greek sovereign debt must, from 11 February, be obtained from the Hellenic Central Bank under the Emergency Liquidity Assistance (ELA) scheme. And the ELA scheme itself is under the control of the ECB and reviewed bi-weekly. The ECB could pull it at any moment.
Varoufakis's comment is undoubtedly a reference to the fact that pulling ELA from Greek banks would cause their sudden disorderly collapse. The ECB has used this trick before: it threatened to pull ELA from Irish banks in 2010, and it actually pulled ELA from Cyprus's Laiki Bank and the Bank of Cyprus, forcing immediate closure and restructuring. This second piece of brinkmanship resulted in the worst bank bailout decision in the history of the planet, which was (fortunately) subsequently overturned by the Cypriot legislature. Undermining deposit insurance is almost criminally insane.
But pulling ELA from Greek banks would have a much larger impact. Germans fantasise that ELA can be pulled without systemic impact, but this is not remotely credible. The impact would be smaller than it would have been in 2010, but it would still be highly destabilising to the global financial system. Such an action would greatly enhance the ECB's reputation for incompetence and probably end the careers of its senior officials.
If the collapse of the Greek banks precipitated the disorderly exit of Greece from the Euro, there would be significant losses for the ECB itself, the other Eurozone governments and probably the IMF. The impact on the European economy would be devastating and it would send shock waves around the world. And it would set an important precedent. If one member state can leave, so can others. How can the ECB have any credibility as guardian of the Euro if it is seen to be actively forcing out member states?
If the ECB forced a banking collapse by pulling ELA, Greece might try to limp on within the Eurozone as Cyprus did, using capital controls to prevent capital flight. But this would be the worst possible situation for Greece and it seems highly unlikely that the Greek government would even consider it. Greece's economy is already in worse shape than Cyprus's was at the time of its banking collapse, and Cyprus's banking system was crippled but not destroyed by the restructuring. Greece's banking system would be wrecked beyond repair. Greece would have no choice but to create a completely new currency and reflate its economy directly via the central bank. That means leaving the Euro, at least temporarily.
So as Varoufakis said, the ECB's threat to pull ELA appears to be empty. I said on Twitter that I thought the ECB's action was sabre-rattling. Karl Whelan, it seems, thinks so too. "Relax, it’s no big deal. Just some muscles being flexed." he says at the start of this blogpost. But whose feathers is the ECB trying to ruffle? Lorcan thinks the target is Greece:
"So, all together, the move from the ECB should have very little immediate effect on the Greek banks, provided there is not a complete loss of confidence in the Greek banking system in the coming days, and should be viewed as what it is: The ECB is pressuring the Greek government. Greece's finance minister, Yanis Varoufakis, has been agitating for Greek debt relief since his appointment after January's election. Today the ECB gave its answer to his moves. If the Greek government does not agree to reenter a program, the ECB will not allow its debt to be used as collateral."
I don't believe it. If this is the ECB's intention, it is playing right into Varoufakis's hands. It's as if a chess player deliberately chose to adopt the exact game strategy that his opponent, six months before, had published in a chess magazine. Draghi is every bit as good a game theorist as Varoufakis, and the two men met before the ECB's decision. It's just not credible that Draghi would unintentionally adopt Varoufakis's game strategy.
Is it possible that this is not an antagonistic move at all, from Greece's point of view? Could it be that far from kicking Greece, the ECB's real target is Germany? For some time now, it has been evident that Draghi is no fan of Germany's "Austerity Forever" stance. Pressuring Germany into negotiating might be his intention. But if so, it is a highly risky strategy. Pulling the waiver is likely to increase capital flight from Greece and raise Greek bond yields still further, putting further pressure on Greece's fragile finances. How exactly would this help Greece?
Alessandro Del Prete helpfully sent me this piece by Jacques Sapir which explains how weakening Greece's position could actually strengthen its hand (my emphasis):
"In this strategic game, it is clear that Greece has deliberately chosen the strategy qualified by Thomas Schelling, one of the founders of game theory, but also of nuclear dissuasion, as « coercive deficiency »[5]. In fact, this term of « coercive deficiency » was imagined by L. Wilmerding in 1943 in order to describe a situation where agencies enter into expenses without prior financing, knowing that morally the government will not be able to refuse funding them [6]. Schelling’s contribution consists in showing that this situation can be generalized and that a situation of weakness can reveal itself to be an instrument of coercion upon others. He also showed how it can be rational for an actor knowing himself to be in a position of weakness from the start, to increase his weakness in order to use it in negotiation. Reversing Jack London, one can speak in this instance of a “strength of the weak.” [7]. It is in this context that we must understand the renunciation by the Greek government of the last slice of aid promised by the so-called « Troïka, » amounting to 7 billion euros. Of course, having rejected the legitimacy of said “Troïka, » it could not logically accept to take advantage of it. But, in a more subtle way, this gesture is putting Greece voluntarily at the edge of the abyss and demonstrates all at once its resolve to go the bitter end (like Cortez burning his ships before moving up to Mexico) and to increase the pressure on Germany. We are here in a full blown exercise of « coercive deficiency »."
This explains Varoufakis's "Do ahead" (he probably meant "Go ahead"). He stands at the edge of the cliff, and the ECB says "Do what we want or we will push you over". His response: "Go on then, push".
It must be remembered that this game is being played on a global stage. The US President, Barack Obama, has openly sided with the Greeks, warning that "You cannot keep on squeezing countries that are in the midst of a depression. At some point there has to be a growth strategy in order for them to pay off their debts and eliminate some of their deficits". And the UK's George Osborne, while calling for the Greek finance minister to "act responsibly", also criticised the Eurozone for its lack of a coherent plan for jobs and growth. Calling for the two sides to strike a deal, he warned that the standoff between Greece and the Eurozone is the "greatest risk facing the global economy". This seems like hyperbole to me, given the continuing crisis in Ukraine and military game-playing in the South China Sea, not to mention the Islamic insanity in the Middle East. But it all helps the Greek cause.
Varoufakis is gambling that the Eurozone, and more particularly Germany, will not dare to push him off the cliff because of the consequences for international political relations. If Germany was seen to force Greece out of the Euro by refusing to negotiate, it would become an international pariah. There are already voices reminding Germany of its own debt forgiveness in 1953, and anti-austerity movements in many other Eurozone countries would only be encouraged by Germany and/or the ECB looking like bullies. Forcing Greece out of the Euro could result in the disorderly unravelling of the whole thing.
I may be completely wrong, but this looks far more plausible to me than a simple explanation that fails to take account of the signals given by both Varoufakis and Draghi. In which case, Schäuble should beware. His position is nowhere near as strong as he thinks. He is dangerously close to the cliff edge himself. If Germany pushes Greece over the edge, Greece may well take Germany down with it.
http://coppolacomment.blogspot.co.uk/2015/02/what-on-earth-is-ecb-up-to.html
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Feb 5, 2015 11:08
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- Geriatric Pirate
- Apr 25, 2008
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by Nyc_Tattoo
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From the above, I like how she says
quote:The ECB's monetary policy failures are legion: it should put its own house in order, rather than interfering with the conduct of fiscal policy. And worse, its persistent interference in fiscal policy is a clear conflict of interest, as the Advocate General of the European Court of Justice noted in relation to the OMT programme. It should not be a member of the Troika at all, and certainly should not use changes in fiscal policy by a democratically-elected sovereign government - even one that has inherited an economy in tatters with a massive debt burden - as justification for limiting liquidity to that country's banking system. Monetary policy should never be used to serve fiscal or political ends. Not ever.
When in fact this is ENDING the use of monetary policy for fiscal and political ends. Find one other central bank in the world that accepts junk rated collateral in exchange for bank funding.
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Feb 5, 2015 11:22
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- Cingulate
- Oct 23, 2012
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by Fluffdaddy
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Yes because a prosperous Greece would bring about the next Hitler, and so time-travelers from the future have told us it's necessary to make sure they live in the most abject poverty possible.
Sorry, the bad guys in the story are still the Germans. Just a heads-up: austerity never worked anywhere it was tried. Never ever ever in the entire history of the entire world. The only thing austerity achieves is ruining entire nations, precipitating into poverty most of its population. Which is probably your intention, I know.
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Feb 5, 2015 11:22
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- Pesmerga
- Aug 1, 2005
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So nice to eat you
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From the above, I like how she says
When in fact this is ENDING the use of monetary policy for fiscal and political ends. Find one other central bank in the world that accepts junk rated collateral in exchange for bank funding.
If you believe this, I have some sub-prime mortgages to sell you.
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Feb 5, 2015 11:25
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- LemonDrizzle
- Mar 28, 2012
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neoliberal shithead
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Sorry, but that article is pure wishful thinking. Draghi hasn't said much about the crisis, but his deputies and other ECB policymakers absolutely have - not just Costancio, but also Benoit Couere and the Finnish representative. The bank has made its position abundantly clear. It's also kind of bizarre to point to its previous use of ELA as a weapon against Ireland and Cyprus and essentially argue "well, they clearly did mean it on those occasions, but this time they're not serious at all and are only doing it to pressure Germany!"
It's also beyond insane to imagine that Germany would become an international pariah if Greece were ejected from the eurozone. Saying "sorry, we're not going to pay your debts for you and you're going to have to leave our club if you won't abide by the rules" is not the sort of thing that provokes sanctions and international condemnation.
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Feb 5, 2015 11:26
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- GaussianCopula
- Jun 5, 2011
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Jews fleeing the Holocaust are not in any way comparable to North Africans, who don't flee genocide but want to enjoy the social welfare systems of Northern Europe.
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What a stupid comment. It's wrong for the ECB to use monetary policy for political or fiscal ends, but that makes it wrong to end a clearly politically motivated program? They only accepted Greece debt in the first place to help Greece not because it was in the best interest of the ECB.
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Feb 5, 2015 11:28
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- LemonDrizzle
- Mar 28, 2012
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neoliberal shithead
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quote:REUTERS: FRANCE’S HOLLANDE SAYS ECB DECISION ON FUNDING FOR GREECE IS LEGITIMATE
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Feb 5, 2015 11:35
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- The Belgian
- Oct 28, 2008
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The Eurozone is confirmed as being the Fourth Reich.
This is silly, EU aid was always clearly conditional and now Greece is refusing to meet those conditions, so the aid ends. In the long term, Greece leaving might be better for both greece and the EU. It's clear now that when greece joined it wasn't actually ready.
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Feb 5, 2015 11:42
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- Disinterested
- Jun 29, 2011
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You look like you're still raking it in. Still killing 'em?
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This is silly, EU aid was always clearly conditional and now Greece is refusing to meet those conditions, so the aid ends. In the long term, Greece leaving might be better for both greece and the EU. It's clear now that when greece joined it wasn't actually ready.
It was clear when it joined as well, otherwise there would have been no cause to fudge the numbers and lie about it so much at the time.
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Feb 5, 2015 12:02
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- double nine
- Aug 8, 2013
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If nothing else, this shows that the European project for Peace, Prosperity and Cooperation in Europe. Isn't.
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Feb 5, 2015 12:05
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- The Belgian
- Oct 28, 2008
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It was clear when it joined as well, otherwise there would have been no cause to fudge the numbers and lie about it so much at the time.
Yes it should have been. Was it known that Greece was fudging the numbers at the time? I can't recall.
The EU expanded far too quickly in its early optimism and a slower expansion would have been better but I'm still hopeful for it.
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Feb 5, 2015 12:09
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- LemonDrizzle
- Mar 28, 2012
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neoliberal shithead
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germany.txt
quote:“Varoufakis, the libertarian communist, is coming (to Germany) as if for a dog fight, his shirt not tucked into his trousers, an open collar. He is threatening, he is complaining, he wants victory - above all over Germany. Because of such a scholarly ruffian no one should feel they have to poo poo their pants, otherwise we’re bound to lose.
With this background, it’s good that the federal government has so far held back. Only when it’s made known what concrete facts and comprehensible figures the Greeks are going to come up with, can any sort of compromise be negotiated”.
yessssss let the darkness consume you, destroy the greek for the impudence of sending you a scruffily dressed negotiator crush the communist and drink its blood
(the quote is an actual editorial from Die Welt)
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Feb 5, 2015 12:13
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- Disinterested
- Jun 29, 2011
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You look like you're still raking it in. Still killing 'em?
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Yes it should have been. Was it known that Greece was fudging the numbers at the time? I can't recall.
The EU expanded far too quickly in its early optimism and a slower expansion would have been better but I'm still hopeful for it.
Yes. Who do you think was encouraging the fudging? The EU and the Greeks.
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Feb 5, 2015 12:35
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- double nine
- Aug 8, 2013
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For the love of god, are we back to that? yes, they fudged their numbers, yes that was a stupid and dangerous thing to do. HOW DO WE FIX GREECE'S ECONOMY AND THE EUROZONE? The blame game is nonproductive and a distraction.
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Feb 5, 2015 12:39
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- Cingulate
- Oct 23, 2012
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by Fluffdaddy
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The attempts by some german media to make this look like Greece bullying Germany are hilarious in a very sad way.
I'm not sure if this can be legitimately phrased as Germany bullying Greece either, as, for example as has been pointed out in this thread, the current heads of the ECB are not Germans. But it's certainly not the inverse.
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Feb 5, 2015 12:44
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- Pesmerga
- Aug 1, 2005
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So nice to eat you
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Samaras seems to be making a speech in Parliament that indicates that New Democracy think they're going to be back in power soon...
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Feb 5, 2015 12:45
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- GaussianCopula
- Jun 5, 2011
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Jews fleeing the Holocaust are not in any way comparable to North Africans, who don't flee genocide but want to enjoy the social welfare systems of Northern Europe.
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The attempts by some german media to make this look like Greece bullying Germany are hilarious in a very sad way.
I'm not sure if this can be legitimately phrased as Germany bullying Greece either, as, for example as has been pointed out in this thread, the current heads of the ECB are not Germans. But it's certainly not the inverse.
Germany does not want to change the agreements, Greece wants.
Germany is not trying to intimidate the Eurozone to change agreements that everyone agreed upon, Greece is.
Germany is not getting money from the Eurozone, Greece is.
It's pretty clear that Greece is trying to bully it's way to more money.
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Feb 5, 2015 12:48
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- Pesmerga
- Aug 1, 2005
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So nice to eat you
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Germany does not want to change the agreements, Greece wants.
Germany is not trying to intimidate the Eurozone to change agreements that everyone agreed upon, Greece is.
Germany is not getting money from the Eurozone, Greece is.
It's pretty clear that Greece is trying to bully it's way to more money.
Poor plucky Germany, if only it would rise up to face the threats of these European oppressors.
While wearing ties, obviously.
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Feb 5, 2015 12:50
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- Cingulate
- Oct 23, 2012
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by Fluffdaddy
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Germany does not want to change the agreements, Greece wants.
Germany is not trying to intimidate the Eurozone to change agreements that everyone agreed upon, Greece is.
Germany is not getting money from the Eurozone, Greece is.
It's pretty clear that Greece is trying to bully it's way to more money.
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Feb 5, 2015 12:51
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- LemonDrizzle
- Mar 28, 2012
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neoliberal shithead
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For the love of god, are we back to that? yes, they fudged their numbers, yes that was a stupid and dangerous thing to do. HOW DO WE FIX GREECE'S ECONOMY AND THE EUROZONE? The blame game is nonproductive and a distraction.
The sad thing about this is that with a bit of patience, Syriza could've had most of what they wanted but because they tried to do everything all at once without building up any credibility first, they've shoved their country right onto the edge of the cliff.
Samaras seems to be making a speech in Parliament that indicates that New Democracy think they're going to be back in power soon...
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Feb 5, 2015 12:53
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- Pesmerga
- Aug 1, 2005
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So nice to eat you
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We go back in time and change syriza's campaign to focus exclusively on destroying corruption and vested interests in the greek economy. Once elected, they seek a short-term bailout extension, to be reviewed in a year's time, taking the concessions that europe was putting on the table from the beginning. They then implement the anti-evasion tax collection measures that they believe will yield an extra €12 bn of revenue over the year. At the next yearly review, they say "well, you've had a year to get to know us, we've shown that we're serious about reforming the Greek economy and stamping out corruption, here's what we'd like to do with the extra revenue we've collected, and here are some other economic reforms we'd like to make now that we've succeeded with the tax system."
The sad thing about this is that with a bit of patience, Syriza could've had most of what they wanted but because they tried to do everything all at once without building up any credibility first, they've shoved their country right onto the edge of the cliff.
When princes defaulted on their debts to lesser banks, ruined bankers sold their wives and children into slavery and opened their own veins. When princes failed to repay the Iron Bank, new princes sprang up from nowhere and took their thrones.
Despite disagreeing with you on some points, your fiction is one of the highlights of this thread.
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Feb 5, 2015 12:56
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- GaussianCopula
- Jun 5, 2011
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Jews fleeing the Holocaust are not in any way comparable to North Africans, who don't flee genocide but want to enjoy the social welfare systems of Northern Europe.
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Despite disagreeing with you on some points, your fiction is one of the highlights of this thread.
He is just quoting A Song of Ice and Fire (Game of Thrones)
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Feb 5, 2015 12:59
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- Pesmerga
- Aug 1, 2005
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So nice to eat you
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He is just quoting A Song of Ice and Fire (Game of Thrones)
I know.
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Feb 5, 2015 13:01
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- DOCTOR ZIMBARDO
- May 8, 2006
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What is the mechanism for triggering new elections, or is there simply going to be a putsch?
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Feb 5, 2015 13:02
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- Adbot
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ADBOT LOVES YOU
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Jun 3, 2024 16:46
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- botany
- Apr 27, 2013
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by Lowtax
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Germany is not getting money from the Eurozone, Greece is.
Our whole economy is based on the existence of debtor states, how are we not getting money from the Eurozone?
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Feb 5, 2015 13:03
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Feb 5, 2015 07:44
