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IMB posted:The hot new theory now is that the guy who killed Kyle was a secret Muslim. Are you serious?
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Feb 3, 2015 06:43
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Crain posted:Are you serious? Well, only kinda. Its from an Allen West (you know the black dude who agrees with all the racist white guys so they can claim to have a black friend) article.
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Feb 3, 2015 06:46
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IMB posted:Well, only kinda. Its from an Allen West (you know the black dude who agrees with all the racist white guys so they can claim to have a black friend) article. Got a link? I actually shouldn't be that surprised. With how often Freep level conservatives scream about "Taqyyia" I'm sure they assume everyone else is a secret Muslim.
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Feb 3, 2015 06:50
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Crain posted:Got a link?
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Feb 3, 2015 06:56
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Holy poo poo, what a terrible article. quote:While there is no proof of any conversion, Shoebat says “During a phone call with his father, Routh expressed sympathy for the detainees and discontent over how the US was conducting the war as well as his reluctance to engage in combat” and “While working as a guard at Balad Air Base, Routh laments his [Muslim] prisoners’ poor living conditions.” There's no proof of him having any conversations with prisoners, nor of converting to Islam, but HE HAD A BEARD. loving hell that is some insane mental gymnastics. The image they use of him show him with regular trimmed facial hair, and then they link to a "Understanding Islam" site that says you can't trim it at all. Probably shouldn't have read that before bed.
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Feb 3, 2015 07:07
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The film has been poorly received in Iraq, where it was pulled amidst public outrage and pressure by the Iraqi Ministry of Culture. There is only one major movie theater in Baghdad and its owner was told he would be fined if the movie continued to play. I've heard conflicting reports about what actual filmgoers thought of the film. One source claims that audience members started shouting, ‘It’s all a lie,’ and ‘You are demeaning our culture” before being removed by security. Another claims that the audience was more frustrated with the actual plot, screaming, "gently caress, shoot him! He has an IED, don’t wait for permission!" I'm personally more inclined to believe the Washington Post account of its reception. Fox News has been trumpeting the second quote in response to its criticisms by Western viewers. In an unsurprising turn, American Sniper is doing extremely well in Iraqi Kurdistan. It's one of the highest grossing film in Kurdistan right now, second only to Taken 3. It's also been doing fairly well in Lebanon, where it opened uncut and sold 3,100 tickets on opening night. QuoProQuid fucked around with this message at 15:16 on Feb 3, 2015 |
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Feb 3, 2015 14:31
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QuoProQuid posted:The film has been poorly received in Iraq, where it was pulled amidst public outrage and pressure by the Iraqi Ministry of Culture. There is only one major movie theater in Baghdad and its owner was told he would be fined if the movie continued to play. I've heard conflicting reports about what actual filmgoers thought of the film. One source claims that audience members started shouting, ‘It’s all a lie,’ and ‘You are demeaning our culture” before being removed by security. Another claims that the audience was more frustrated with the actual plot, screaming, "gently caress, shoot him! He has an IED, don’t wait for permission!" I'm personally more inclined to believe the Washington Post account of its reception. Fox News has been trumpeting the second quote in response to its criticisms by Western viewers. Yeah, I'm not even sure why anyone would think it was a good idea to show this movie in Baghdad. I am also unsurprised by the Kurdish reception. Given what the Iraqis have done to those people over the years, I can see why they wouldn't give a poo poo if they were painted in a negative light.
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Feb 3, 2015 15:36
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Crain posted:Holy poo poo, what a terrible article. Chris Kyle also had a beard, so they should be ecstatic about one secret Muslim murdering another!
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Feb 3, 2015 17:28
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Grizzled Patriarch posted:Chris Kyle also had a beard, so they should be ecstatic about one secret Muslim murdering another! If GIP is to be believed: growing a beard is like' the first thing you do once you get out of service.
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Feb 4, 2015 00:39
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Basebf555 posted:Holy poo poo watching "news" segments about this movie on CNN(not even Fox News!) is unbelievably aggravating. They're lining up veterans and grandstanding politicians to talk about how amazing the movie is and what a True American Hero Kyle was. The host throws them some softball questions so they can shoot down any criticisms with ease. Embed won't start at right time, start at 22 min. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XwkwX7D0008&t=1320s Shame on you, Charlie Rose, shame on you. Josh Lyman fucked around with this message at 14:21 on Feb 4, 2015 |
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Feb 4, 2015 14:13
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Lol americans missing the point and cant understand a semi non straightforward argument. Colour me surprised
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Feb 4, 2015 16:27
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astupiddvdcase posted:Colour color*
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Feb 4, 2015 20:49
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Armani posted:If GIP is to be believed: growing a beard is like' the first thing you do once you get out of service. its right up there with smoking pot.
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Feb 4, 2015 20:54
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Cole posted:color* Colour*. 
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Feb 5, 2015 00:05
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So apparently the guy who killed kyle was an 'islamic sympathiser' and he saw no combat experience. He isnt muslim but just cause he wasnt muslim doesnt mean everything said about chris and this movie still does not stand. And the comments on fb on some conservative website on this is facepalm "We must stand up to these muslims blah blah" like stfu
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Feb 5, 2015 04:43
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astupiddvdcase posted:So apparently the guy who killed kyle was an 'islamic sympathiser' and he saw no combat experience. He isnt muslim but just cause he wasnt muslim doesnt mean everything said about chris and this movie still does not stand Wait what? I'm having a hard time parsing your second sentence.
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Feb 5, 2015 04:45
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astupiddvdcase posted:So apparently the guy who killed kyle was an 'islamic sympathiser' and he saw no combat experience. He isnt muslim but just cause he wasnt muslim doesnt mean everything said about chris and this movie still does not stand. what does your first point have to do with your second point
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Feb 5, 2015 05:14
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Cole posted:what does your first point have to do with your second point I think i was meant to say even if he was muslim and an islamic sympathizer everything about this movie and chris still stands. And we dont even know his beliefs maybe he is just disillusioned and that equals "islamic sympathizer" to consrvatives. Lol
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Feb 5, 2015 05:41
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astupiddvdcase posted:I think i was meant to say even if he was muslim and an islamic sympathizer everything about this movie and chris still stands. And we dont even know his beliefs maybe he is just disillusioned and that equals "islamic sympathizer" to consrvatives. Lol Yeah but how did you enjoy the movie because a movie can be about bad people and still be good. Like pulp fiction. Or hot shots.
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Feb 5, 2015 05:50
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Cole posted:Yeah but how did you enjoy the movie because a movie can be about bad people and still be good. Like pulp fiction. Or hot shots. Well a movie based on a real event and a real person with questions surrounding their actions and their beliefs and warping it to suit a movie just to tell a story about ptsd is kinda dishonest especially when surrounding a contentious issue like chris kyle and iraq war. Its like the imitation game, its a good movie but i felt they went too far in portraying him as almost autistic and pushing the "its okay to be different" agenda but theres a less of an issue there since its not tjr holocaust or thr iraq war. Its funny that conservatives worship chris kyle just because he wrote a book and he was well promoted. If he didnt mobody would even care.
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Feb 5, 2015 06:28
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Cole posted:Yeah but how did you enjoy the movie because a movie can be about bad people and still be good. Like pulp fiction. Or hot shots. I just saw this movie and as someone who was able to enjoy his terrible book by reading it from a perspective of 'ok this is a look at how war loving broke this human being and that's fascinating and tragic' it was a total poo poo movie. Like, I'm not dumb I knew it'd be a huge whitewashing even before the news started talking about it, but the ads at least looked like they were taking it from a point of 'we think this guy's a hero but he was tortured by ptsd still'. The movie itself had near none of that, any tragic aspect to his heroism was massively overshadowed by the roaring chorus of "YOU WANT HIM ON THAT WALL, YOU NEED HIM ON THAT WALL" that dominated the movie as a whole. I wasn't expecting journalism, I knew I was gonna get a blast of red white and blue spunk in the face, but it's just a lovely done movie along with that. I was fine with propaganda, but I expected some quality to it, you know? The movie was like 45 minutes of actual movie stretched out with repeated scenes saying the same things over and over to just slap you in the face with "DO YOU GET THAT HE WAS A HERO YET, DO YOU SEE HOW NOBLE HE WAS DESPITE HIS DEMONS?!" Kyle never fucks up, he thinks he did but every dramatic 'oh god did I fail my duty' moment is underscored with 'oooh no, poor guy didn't understand what a hero he was...' rather than 'war is loving horrible and even the heroes aren't 100% sure they deserve the title'. It took a book that you could do a legitimate great drama from, Kyle could be a fascinating character to portray, and it just squeezed out the most generic 'you better be thankful for his service you ingrate commie fucks' movie possible. They didn't even follow Kyle's crazy lies (because they'd be super obvious lies, but still). Like, poo poo man where was my scene of the noble sniper disarming 2 thugs with his pistol and having his ID card ran by the cops only to have them get the DoD's phone number come up and a gruff general tell them to let him go? Where's my noble sniper climbing the Superdome during Katrina and sniping 'looters', a silent guardian angel for the people of New Orleans who never knew he was there? Where is Kyle personally, by himself, finding CHEMICAL WEAPONS IN IRAQ that came from, of course, France?! Why would Eastwood make Mustafa, a dude who barely was a thing in his book, into a super-villain who worked for, what, three separate and unique Arab factions? What really hosed me up, though, as tons of people pointed out. That thing where he shoots the kid and the woman with him ignores a dying child to throw a grenade...why would you make that up? Why would Eastwood take one of the few moments of genuine goodness in Kyle's book where he flat out says 'no I wouldn't shoot a kid, I'll shot the rear end in a top hat who sent him but I won't shoot a kid' and go 'nah, he fuckin wasted that kid and the savage mom didn't even care because she just hated america so much!' Eastwood is an absolute loving lunatic, he really is. I don't know how else to describe someone who reads 'I saw a kid going to an rpg and I knew I'd never shoot a kid' and go 'well THAT won't do in my heroic biography of this guy, I better show him murder a child, so we know he's the hero'. That said I actually think Cooper did a really good job in the role, he handled the job really well and gave a ton of emotion in the story that helped me avoid being bugged enough by the movie to just walk out. It's a bummer that he's, ya know, in this. I didn't leave the movie upset, I wasn't some foaming liberal just steaming in my boots about how I hate seeing those dastardly troops in a heroic light. I just left confused as gently caress, I have no idea who this movie is for. If you loved Kyle's book and thought it was 100% true, it cut out all his badass heroics. If you were like me and thought Kyle was a broken human being who should be pitied it just shot you in the face with a big "SHUT THE gently caress UP YOU PINKO HE WAS A HERO" but aside from Cooper no one was really...good in it, let alone good enough to make you question your views and poo poo, so you'd just leave going 'well that was bullshit'. If you never heard of Kyle before the movie I don't know how much you'd enjoy the sloppy story and lovely half assed drama that constantly undercuts itself to assure you 'no no he was a good hero it's ok' as if you're a loving child who's going to start crying if the hero has a flaw. I mean, is the core audience of this movie really people who just want to see what all the fuss is about like me, or people who get told that the fuckin commie troop haters DON'T WANT THEM TO SEE THIS STUNNING STORY? Is that a marketable demographic for a major movie and not a lovely 'how Obama will literally kill America' 'documentary' you get mailers for?
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Feb 5, 2015 06:31
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One of the more disturbing things I found about the movie was when Kyle and his wife were driving back from a buddies funeral. Before the guy died he apparently send his mother a letter saying how he didn't believe in the war or something. In the car ride home Kyle basically says that the guy died basically because he wrote that letter and "stopped believing". Almost seems like Kyle thinks that if you aren't 100 percent gung ho about the war you deserve to die. I am not absolutely sure that it went down exactly that way. I found this movie pretty boring.
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Feb 5, 2015 10:23
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BobKnob posted:One of the more disturbing things I found about the movie was when Kyle and his wife were driving back from a buddies funeral. Before the guy died he apparently send his mother a letter saying how he didn't believe in the war or something. In the car ride home Kyle basically says that the guy died basically because he wrote that letter and "stopped believing". Almost seems like Kyle thinks that if you aren't 100 percent gung ho about the war you deserve to die. That was him justifying it to himself he didnt't actually believe it I thought the movie was good and I thought it was interesting to show a damaged "legend", idc about the real life events and think it is funny that people wish it were more black and white and that the main character was a monster for killing literal armed insurgents terrorizing civilians. He had some tough choices to make and it clearly effected him, I wish we had more at home scenes to show that though
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Feb 5, 2015 14:30
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tbp posted:That was him justifying it to himself he didnt't actually believe it The problem, and why one side is pissed off, is that we have a serious current problem with people being thinly veiled (at worst) racist, or (at best) xenophobic assholes, which is mainly based around a bunch of stupid political propaganda that feeds to a bunch of dumb people that see things in pure black and white and are likely to fall for that kind of stuff. To make a movie about the current war/situation that does nothing to shift that opinion or fight the propaganda and actually helps feed it is hugely irresponsible, and overshadows the quality of the movie in itself. Especially when it actually whitewashes the source material a bit to make it more palatable to that side. Art doesn't just stand on its own, removed from current events/society, and criticizing its place in society is part of it.
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Feb 5, 2015 15:35
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tbp posted:That was him justifying it to himself he didnt't actually believe it I mean, you're saying you don't care about the real life events so I think you're approaching this from a different place than most of us in the thread. This war wasn't 100 or even 50 years ago, a lot of us still give a poo poo that thousands of innocent people died for pretty much no reason.
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Feb 5, 2015 15:47
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BobKnob posted:One of the more disturbing things I found about the movie was when Kyle and his wife were driving back from a buddies funeral. Before the guy died he apparently send his mother a letter saying how he didn't believe in the war or something. In the car ride home Kyle basically says that the guy died basically because he wrote that letter and "stopped believing". Almost seems like Kyle thinks that if you aren't 100 percent gung ho about the war you deserve to die. That's yet another scene that was completely flipped from how the real Chris Kyle told it. In reality Kyle had nothing but good things to say about that letter and Marc. But for some reason the Movie decided to flip it to make him seem more broken. Which in effect removed one of a few scenes from the book that actually paints him in a sympathetic person.
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Feb 5, 2015 16:42
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Crain posted:That's yet another scene that was completely flipped from how the real Chris Kyle told it. In reality Kyle had nothing but good things to say about that letter and Marc. But for some reason the Movie decided to flip it to make him seem more broken. Which in effect removed one of a few scenes from the book that actually paints him in a sympathetic person. Yea I thought his bit on that story in the book was a legitimately very humanizing and sincere thing, it showed that even though he personally didn't agree he respected that it was a much more complex issue for others and still considered him a friend even if they disagreed on a fairly major issue to both of them. Of course I guess Eastwood thought that made him look like some kinda pussy so we get our hero idly musing how someone who was his close friend may have deserved to die for questioning the war's morals in private with his family. That's not even a conflicted hero, that's what an objectively bad person does.
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Feb 5, 2015 17:36
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Tatum Girlparts posted:Yea I thought his bit on that story in the book was a legitimately very humanizing and sincere thing, it showed that even though he personally didn't agree he respected that it was a much more complex issue for others and still considered him a friend even if they disagreed on a fairly major issue to both of them. Right, and then because they removed that scene they had to invent other scenes to "re-humanize" him. They really should have planned out their story points better. Honestly the biggest thing I want to know is how many scenes that were added were sourced from something Taya Kyle said and how many were just rewritten with artistic license. I know that they talked to Taya and the rest of the Kyle family and supposedly that changed a lot of things from early drafts, but so many scenes directly contradict Kyle's own words (and even Taya's own words, she has her own sections in the book). But really we (as in the public) shouldn't get that info as it's very private information. As much as Kyle's public persona may be despicable, the family doesn't need to be dragged into any sort of discussion.
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Feb 5, 2015 18:11
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Well I mean everything relating to Kyle's PTSD comes from his wife - it isn't mentioned a single time in the book. They didn't hew to the book because the only people an accurate portrayal of Kyle would appeal to aren't the target for propagandist film because they're already swimming in the kool-aid. Sanding down the edges and reframing the narrative are very deliberate choices meant to appeal to the more moderate / "middle of the road" crowd. The film presents a very puerile plastic-army-men-in-the-backyard view of the conflict because it means the audience doesn't have to put in any work to interpret what's on the screen. It's Chris Kyle fan fiction. Generally speaking, propaganda is a war of attrition - the majority of moviegoers probably aren't going to have their minds changed by a single film with regards to American involvement in Iraq, but push the same narrative on them over and over across an extended period of time and well...
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Feb 5, 2015 18:26
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mugrim posted:An Anti-war movie should focus on those who are killed en masse. This is not true at all.
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Feb 5, 2015 19:30
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tbp posted:That was him justifying it to himself he didnt't actually believe it Then maybe don't write about a real person or a real war even? When you do that, you are inherently creating a set of both standards and a new set of ethics. Crain posted:Right, and then because they removed that scene they had to invent other scenes to "re-humanize" him. They really should have planned out their story points better. She assisted with the movie. With millions of dollars the Kyle family still owes veterans that's sitting in her account, she was given Charity for the amount of 62k. She's yet to give it out (which seems an odd choice considering most millionaires don't get charity given to them). Despite losing the lawsuit to Ventura, and rightly so, she's continuing the suit in a higher court. She's dragging their family into the public eye, pretending they're not there won't do anything. Pedro De Heredia posted:This is not true at all. Okay, a 'good' anti-war movie. Focusing on psychological damage on the side that doesn't have killing field amounts of body dumps is a bit less "Anti-war" and more "War is serious/harms our soldiers" As a country it's irresponsible to invade a country, kill tons of people, and then whine about how your people need mental health care because they saw some 'real poo poo' as they were massacring hundreds of thousands. When you make a movie that focuses on the mental damage, you are inherently valuing it equally if not greater than others deaths. Here's a serious question: Why do most war movies involve soldiers as protagonists, despite the fact that the people who are involved in war are more often than not are civilians?
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Feb 6, 2015 03:17
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mugrim posted:She assisted with the movie. With millions of dollars the Kyle family still owes veterans that's sitting in her account, she was given Charity for the amount of 62k. She's yet to give it out (which seems an odd choice considering most millionaires don't get charity given to them). Despite losing the lawsuit to Ventura, and rightly so, she's continuing the suit in a higher court. She's dragging their family into the public eye, pretending they're not there won't do anything. Wait a minute, why was she given charity? They made a lot of money off of the book (which, as you said, should have been given away).
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Feb 6, 2015 03:45
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Ralepozozaxe posted:Wait a minute, why was she given charity? They made a lot of money off of the book (which, as you said, should have been given away). She (or Kyle? Forgot) started a charity to help vets with PTSD, that's how he was at the gun range with the dude who shot him. The charity is now (or maybe always was) running into a hole at rapid speed because no one is using the money they get for charity things. Along with that they said most of the book money would go to some cause but as of last checking almost none has.
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Feb 6, 2015 04:13
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Tatum Girlparts posted:She (or Kyle? Forgot) started a charity to help vets with PTSD, that's how he was at the gun range with the dude who shot him. The charity is now (or maybe always was) running into a hole at rapid speed because no one is using the money they get for charity things. Along with that they said most of the book money would go to some cause but as of last checking almost none has. That one was pretty unofficial and was essentially just shooting with dudes he knew and creating a relatively informal network. The Kyle family total paid out to charity as of a month or so ago was like 52k out of millions (with 100% promised, estimates hover around 6m right now). This was a completely separate thing. His wife donated his rifles to a completely separate charity run by americansnipers.org and they turned around and gave her the 62k made off the rifles sales by saying that the raffle was a farce and they wanted to help the Kyle family. The polite thing to do is to then turn around and go "Oh, I donate this to americansnipers.org or insert charity here! (because I got millions in the bank)".
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Feb 6, 2015 06:07
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mugrim posted:That one was pretty unofficial and was essentially just shooting with dudes he knew and creating a relatively informal network. The Kyle family total paid out to charity as of a month or so ago was like 52k out of millions (with 100% promised, estimates hover around 6m right now). This was a completely separate thing. yeah the movie had all this in it that is why it belongs in this thread
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Feb 6, 2015 06:36
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Cole posted:yeah the movie had all this in it that is why it belongs in this thread There was a claim earlier that 'the family' should be left out of discussion of the movie. My point is that the family (Specifically Taya) has very clearly put themselves in the public eye, and for quite a pretty penny, so pretending involving them at all is wrong is kinda odd. The narrative of the movie is so overwhelming that people were actually convinced that she's in dire need of funds to the point of raising cash to give her. The reason this is relevant for the movie is it's place as propaganda. It sells a strong narrative that is almost completely false yet completely envelopes people. They assume they are watching the truth, so much so that people are being swayed back to thinking OIF was a good thing.
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Feb 6, 2015 06:56
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mugrim posted:There was a claim earlier that 'the family' should be left out of discussion of the movie. My point is that the family (Specifically Taya) has very clearly put themselves in the public eye, and for quite a pretty penny, so pretending involving them at all is wrong is kinda odd. The narrative of the movie is so overwhelming that people were actually convinced that she's in dire need of funds to the point of raising cash to give her. yeah but who cares about politics, just talk about the movie bro this ain't d&d
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Feb 6, 2015 06:58
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Cole posted:yeah but who cares about politics, just talk about the movie bro I get why people are talking about the family/politics/real story/etc. Movie's boring as poo poo. You need something to latch onto.
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Feb 6, 2015 07:01
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Yeah, there's just not much to say about it. It's a boring, amateurish, paint-by-numbers film with a tin ear and a blind eye. Cooper's performance is the only thing that ever rises above the soaring heights of "mediocre" and even that is so hamstrung by everything else that it doesn't justify sitting through the film. Like holy poo poo, if you are going to make a blatant piece of propaganda, at least pull a Battleship Potemkin and make it aesthetically interesting.
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Feb 6, 2015 08:52
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mugrim posted:Okay, a 'good' anti-war movie. Focusing on psychological damage on the side that doesn't have killing field amounts of body dumps is a bit less "Anti-war" and more "War is serious/harms our soldiers" Many well-known films that are considered 'anti-war' are about soldiers. You are free to believe in the idea that a 'good' anti-war movie can only be about the losing side's civilians' dying, but it's not some super popular notion. War harming soldiers is part of an anti-war message, since soldiers are human beings and citizens who in many cases were conscripted, or in many cases the army was the best path they thought they could take, or whatever. In the case of America's wars, soldiers (and their relatives, friends, etc.) are likely to be the only people from America who are suffering from the war, since the wars are fought elsewhere. quote:Here's a serious question: Why do most war movies involve soldiers as protagonists, despite the fact that the people who are involved in war are more often than not are civilians? American civilians aren't being killed in America's wars. That's probably why. You could also say that war movies about civilians being murdered and thrown in a ditch wouldn't be very interesting. Pedro De Heredia fucked around with this message at 20:27 on Feb 6, 2015 |
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Feb 6, 2015 20:25
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