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Jamesman posted:Have they said anything about it anywhere? I know they confirmed that Dottie is not Yelena, but did hey say anything about the girl being Natasha or not? Seemed like a deliberate choice to have a lone red-haired girl there, is all. More likely to me is, if there's a connection, she's a relative/ancestor, not her.
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Feb 5, 2015 19:33
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Regy Rusty posted:I don't have a problem with people watching the show as a guilty pleasure and thinking it's dumb and bad if they want. But that's not why I watch it - I think it's good and I like it. I like all the characters and I find the story they're telling very engaging. Just because people don't view the show the same way you do doesn't mean they're not admitting what they really think about it. But I like the characters too. And I wouldn't watch a TV show if I didn't care about the story, since without one its a bunch of people standing around doing nothing. The problem is that saying "I like the characters and the story" isn't really criticism. It's a pretty basic statement that is ultimately meaningless. The writing, especially in season 1, is bland and even subpar in areas. The directing was bland. The cinematography was bland. Some of the effects were poor. The plotting/pacing was also subpar. All criticisms discussed and mentioned to death. Does that make the show unwatchable? For some people yes, because their standards might be higher than others. I have a high tolerance for poorly made television. I watched all of Smallville. Smallville had characters and stories. If I hated them, I wouldn't have watched it for ten years. That doesn't mean Smallville is a well made show. It was entertaining enough for me, but I wouldn't go around telling people it was some great show when I know for a fact there are better shows with better writing and better direction out there. I feel the same about AoS. Yes, I like it, that is why I watch it. I am not some crazy person who hate watches things. But I also recognize that it has flaws because I have also seen other shows. AoS isn't my first TV show. I have seen better and worse, so I have a basis for comparison that I can bring to the table when people ask about the show or want to discuss its quality. In such a discussion, simply saying that I enjoy it would be a waste of time. Why do I enjoy it? What is my metric for enjoying things? Maybe I like a bunch of stuff the other people in the discussion hate. Some people like getting pooped on, does that mean everyone should play with feces? The point I keep trying to make, especially in this thread, is that people need to learn how to convey their tastes. In a discussion about whether a show is worth watching, nobody cares that you simply like or don't like something, characters, story, or otherwise. The whole point of people engaging in that line of conversation is to ultimately get people to express what it is they do or do not like about it, and to have them qualify those statements by hopefully making direct comparisons the people asking will be able to understand. When it comes to AoS, pretty much no one whose "job" it is to criticize shows has accused AoS of having amazing scripts, direction, or anything of the sort. Production has typically not been its strong suit, though it has definitely improved significantly over time. It is safe to say, that compared to other shows, the production value and the writing tend to be fairly weak, especially in the first season. To put it another way, I enjoy cheap fast food sometimes. I also enjoy those processed chicken patties and nuggets/strips you get at cheap cafeterias and in the frozen food section. But I am not going to argue that it is gourmet quality food. It's cheap and unhealthy, and I know that it is bad for me, but for whatever reason, I enjoy the taste. I enjoy more expensive, healthier versions and other options as well, because I have tried them, so I am aware of the quality of what I am eating. If someone says that those processed chicken things are legit great and uses language that doesn't indicate that they have ever even tried anything else, then their opinion on such things is going to be a lot less valuable in a discussion, especially if other people are directly comparing it to other things, and using more in depth language to describe the food.
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Feb 5, 2015 19:33
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What point are you trying to make here? There is almost nobody in this thread (or if there is, its a very small minority) that will defend most of season 1. It was poor. It feels like you are making up people to argue against and then plowing ahead as if they exist.
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Feb 5, 2015 19:41
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mikeraskol posted:What point are you trying to make here? There is almost nobody in this thread (or if there is, its a very small minority) that will defend most of season 1. It was poor. It feels like you are making up people to argue against and then plowing ahead as if they exist. I was responding directly to the person I quoted. People absolutely defended the poo poo out of season 1, though yes, they weren't in the majority. I never said they were though. But it is annoying that whenever people start speaking about the flaws of the show, someone chimes in about how it was perfectly fine and that they disagree with such criticisms, usually posting nothing of merit beyond that. But I have no intention of digging through this thread, or the last one to find people who defended the quality of season 1, so if you want to call me on that, then it is what it is. I don't even post in TVIV anymore beyond this thread at this point, so I am pretty sure I am not confusing the AOS threads with something else. The only other thread I talk about AOS in is the Comic book TV show thread in BSS, but that thread barely talks about AoS, compared to Arrow and Flash.
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Feb 5, 2015 19:56
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Snowglobe of Doom posted:She's roughly that age in the comics. Comics are dumb. Black Widow is thirty and her mother didn't have her in her 50s, so there is zero anyone here is BW's mom, either.
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Feb 5, 2015 19:57
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The Red Room training program is obviously connected to Widow's training, but it's obviously precursors we're dealing with, not a younger Natasha. Things aren't exactly the same as in the comics. It's okay. Some things with the MCU have tells you can see from miles away, and this is not one of them. The Red Room is (one of many?) Russia's super soldier program, or super spy program, or whatever. I'm pretty sure of this, and I'm usually right about these things, as past posts in this thread will verify.
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Feb 5, 2015 20:44
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Jerusalem posted:Yeah, I've tried to watch Agents of SHIELD and just haven't been able to get into it, but I really dig Agent Carter and I'm a bit sad it's seemingly a one-off, I'd happily watch this as a series. Carter is a one-off??? WHY? It's such a fun show.  I don't know anything about Marvel (I'm a Batman guy), so everything in this show is cool and good and and new for me. On the other hand, AoS feels like I'm watching crappier Marvel movies. Also, I binged AoS this last weekend. Season 2 is definitely better but I still didn't really like it that much.
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Feb 5, 2015 21:41
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old dog child posted:Carter is a one-off??? WHY? It's such a fun show. Technically it's not a one-off, but the ratings aren't favorable at this point for a renewal.
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Feb 5, 2015 22:32
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I figured we would run into the grandparents of some MCU characters in this episode. Who knows, maybe Jarvis is Simmons grandpa!? The redhead little girl is the grandmother of Natasha Romanov. Maybe Sousa has a daughter that marries a guy with the last name Coulson. Lots of possibilities with the timeframe and the source material.
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Feb 5, 2015 23:20
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swickles posted:I figured we would run into the grandparents of some MCU characters in this episode. Who knows, maybe Jarvis is Simmons grandpa!? The redhead little girl is the grandmother of Natasha Romanov. Maybe Sousa has a daughter that marries a guy with the last name Coulson. Lots of possibilities with the timeframe and the source material. Sousa is presumably Agent 13's (from Winter Soldier) grandfather since Peggy Carter's husband was a vet that Cap saved.
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Feb 5, 2015 23:43
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old dog child posted:Carter is a one-off??? WHY? It's such a fun show. For what it's worth, I agree with you on that. I'm pretty bummed it seems to be not doing great.
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Feb 6, 2015 00:58
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Blazing Ownager posted:For what it's worth, I agree with you on that. I'm pretty bummed it seems to be not doing great. Isn't that kind of expected though? There is a reason we have winter breaks in TV seasons, because many people aren't watching it during those months. Still hoping the execs realize this and plan another mini-series for the next long break.
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Feb 6, 2015 01:10
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jscolon2.0 posted:Sousa is presumably Agent 13's (from Winter Soldier) grandfather since Peggy Carter's husband was a vet that Cap saved.
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Feb 6, 2015 01:11
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Face McAbs from The Tomorrow People has been cast as an Inhuman in AoS
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Feb 6, 2015 02:47
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I think we need a picture of Face McAbs with both his face and abs in one picture. Whoever he is
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Feb 6, 2015 04:17
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Irish Joe posted:Comics are dumb. The last girl I dated before I met my wife should be right about 30 now, and her mother was a little girl in Germany during WWII. She was a 'surprise!' baby, and her brothers are all 25+ years older than her.
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Feb 6, 2015 04:40
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Burning_Monk posted:Isn't that kind of expected though? There is a reason we have winter breaks in TV seasons, because many people aren't watching it during those months. There have been no reports of ABC developing a third Marvel series, so unless Carter somehow manages a renewal, pretty sure it'll just be SHIELD next season. Unless SHIELD gets cancelled too.
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Feb 6, 2015 04:42
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Andrew_1985 posted:I think we need a picture of Face McAbs with both his face and abs in one picture. Whoever he is Go nuts. http://www.buzzfeed.com/jennaguillaume/totally-gratuitous-shirtless-shots-of-aussie-spunk-luke-m#.ru4gqbaYy
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Feb 6, 2015 04:43
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Barry Convex posted:There have been no reports of ABC developing a third Marvel series, so unless Carter somehow manages a renewal, pretty sure it'll just be SHIELD next season. Unless SHIELD gets cancelled too. It won't, though. S.H.I.E.L.D. is Doin' Fine.
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Feb 6, 2015 05:44
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CAPT. Rainbowbeard posted:It won't, though. S.H.I.E.L.D. is Doin' Fine. True. Also, between now and this time next year we will have Avengers 2, Ant-Man, and the lead up to Captain America 3, all of which could spawn their own mini-series, or at least the basis for one. So we could totally get a new mini-series. Hoping Happy and Pepper get their own mission. Pepper would be too expensive, but I would totally watch a Happy/Koening Brothers buddy comedy.
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Feb 6, 2015 05:56
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ToastyPotato posted:The point I keep trying to make, especially in this thread, is that people need to learn how to convey their tastes. In a discussion about whether a show is worth watching, nobody cares that you simply like or don't like something, characters, story, or otherwise. The whole point of people engaging in that line of conversation is to ultimately get people to express what it is they do or do not like about it, and to have them qualify those statements by hopefully making direct comparisons the people asking will be able to understand. I get what you're saying, but it's also not as if no-one does this. Look for it more right after an episode airs, when people are discussing wht they did or didn't like in a current episode, but before we've run out of stuff to talk about and gone back to arguing about whether Ward fucks dogs or if Dottie really killed her little friend (it was offscreen! intentionally vague!  ) or whatever.I know I've tried to do actual specific positive criticism: XboxPants posted:Season 2 Skye becomes interesting when you look at her holistically, see who she is now compared to where she came from, see her current relationship and interactions with Ward compared to where she started. XboxPants posted:Yeah, episodic stuff wouldn't necessarily ruin the show, it just has to be good episodic stuff. If they can keep on using more interesting, serious threat villains like they showed in this episode, then hey, I'm down with some bad-guy-of-the-week stuff with the ongoing plot as a side-dish. XboxPants posted:Yeah, [Mack and Fitz are a] great new combo. XboxPants posted:I expected Creel to end up as a statue, but that they'd spin it as a "And he's gone for good now! ...etc. And many other posters have as well. Just ignore the bullshit arguments that happen while people wait for new episodes and you'll have a much easier time finding actual criticism. XboxPants fucked around with this message at 06:35 on Feb 6, 2015 |
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Feb 6, 2015 06:33
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Everything has generally been better since season 2, and I think most of us agree on the things that have been improved. You even mention how it has improved over the past season. I was mostly referring to season 1 discussions, but yeah, you posted good examples of how to more directly positively criticize something.
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Feb 6, 2015 07:18
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ToastyPotato posted:Everything has generally been better since season 2, and I think most of us agree on the things that have been improved. You even mention how it has improved over the past season. I was mostly referring to season 1 discussions, but yeah, you posted good examples of how to more directly positively criticize something. On the other hand I will say that while I genuinely enjoy the show and think it's a fun action sci-fi romp, and I feel it's good enough now that I don't have to call it a "guilty pleasure", it's certainly not award-winning writing or acting or even special effects or fight choreography. It's not Breaking Bad or whatever, sure. Still, even if it's not Game of Thrones, there's a middle-ground between that Smallville.
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Feb 6, 2015 07:27
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Rocksicles posted:Face McAbs from The Tomorrow People has been cast as an Inhuman in AoS That's bad news. This guy is a legit crap actor. It dosen't help that his american accent is particularly grating.
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Feb 6, 2015 07:59
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I liked AoS season 1. But that's because I am a giant Coulson/Gregg homer. The entire show could be Coulson's life as a door-to-door vacuum salesman and I'd still watch every episode.
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Feb 6, 2015 13:57
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So as Peggy lives here wouldn't the time-line be about right for her to meet young Frank Reynolds?  It is right next door and Marvel does love crossovers.
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Feb 6, 2015 14:39
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Wandle Cax posted:That's bad news. This guy is a legit crap actor. It dosen't help that his american accent is particularly grating. Look, when you have the nickname Face McAbs or Tits O'Highbutt, nobody cares about your acting chops.
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Feb 6, 2015 17:09
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BlueBayou posted:I liked AoS season 1. What about him as a video sale clerk and flyer distributor who just wants to cuddle?
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Feb 6, 2015 17:12
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BlueBayou posted:I liked AoS season 1. Coulson's character is great and I could probably agree with this.
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Feb 6, 2015 19:17
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Irish Joe posted:Look, when you have the nickname Face McAbs or Tits O'Highbutt, nobody cares about your acting chops. Are there any pictures of Tits o'Highbutt? She sounds nice and good at acting.
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Feb 6, 2015 20:18
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I can't think of Agent Thompson as anything other than Flash's great-grandfather. I know Sony has the rights to Spider-Man, but my brain can't help it.
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Feb 7, 2015 00:00
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Phylodox posted:I can't think of Agent Thompson as anything other than Flash's great-grandfather. I know Sony has the rights to Spider-Man, but my brain can't help it. That's an excellent observation. Everything will fit right in when they eventually get the rights back.
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Feb 7, 2015 01:12
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CAPT. Rainbowbeard posted:It won't, though. S.H.I.E.L.D. is Doin' Fine. Ratings-wise, nope. It's down from last season's so-so numbers, with a decent possibility that they'll decline further when it returns from the break. I still think it's more likely than not to eke out a third season, but live viewership remains the most important ratings metric and its numbers there can't be called "fine."
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Feb 7, 2015 01:49
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Barry Convex posted:Ratings-wise, nope. It's down from last season's so-so numbers, with a decent possibility that they'll decline further when it returns from the break. The Civil War movie has the potential to change the show the same way Winter Soldier did, but in a theoretical third season of SHIELD, they would only be able to get like one or two episodes tied in since it comes out May 2016, so I hope they at least get to four seasons. Like, if they do get that far, I'd just about guarantee that that's all the show will be about, the SRA and emergent Inhumans and how Coulson's new SHIELD fits in with all that morally. And I'd kinda like to watch that if they handle it as well as they handled the Winter Soldier HYDRA changes.
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Feb 7, 2015 02:08
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Vitamin P posted:wouldn't the time-line be about right for her to meet young Frank Reynolds? She unzipped him!
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Feb 7, 2015 03:32
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Hopefully they keep Shield around as long as possible, I know they have the other series on netflix coming up, and it'd have to be easier to do a guest arc with Kingpin, daredevil, Jessica Jones, etc. than to bring in an Avenger, both from a story perspective and an actor availability perspective. I know ABC isn't in the business of losing money, but I think Shield serves a good purpose as a constant reminder/tie-in to Disney's biggest cash cow (until Star Wars gets going again properly, and even then it'll probably be bigger), so I don't see a big issue with losing 10-ish million dollars a year that will probably be made up for in DVD sales and, if you keep it around long enough, syndication. It is a shame more people aren't watching though, it's running full loops around Gotham for sure and it's really stepped up its quality tremendously since most of season 1.
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Feb 8, 2015 01:00
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NowonSA posted:Hopefully they keep Shield around as long as possible, I know they have the other series on netflix coming up, and it'd have to be easier to do a guest arc with Kingpin, daredevil, Jessica Jones, etc. than to bring in an Avenger, both from a story perspective and an actor availability perspective. But what if no one is watching the constant reminder  Also that is a pretty dumb argument. They didn't have a problem advertising their films before AoS was around and they won't have any problems if it gets cancelled.
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Feb 8, 2015 01:17
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NowonSA posted:Hopefully they keep Shield around as long as possible, I know they have the other series on netflix coming up, and it'd have to be easier to do a guest arc with Kingpin, daredevil, Jessica Jones, etc. than to bring in an Avenger, both from a story perspective and an actor availability perspective. There's no indication that AoS is serving the purpose of advertising the MCU in general. If people aren't watching the show, it is failing as an advertisement. Even worse, if people are not watching the show AND are turning out in droves to see the movies anyway (GotG, CA2:Winter Soldier) then the show is even more useless in that regard because it is completely unnecessary. I think AoS season 1 was the result of hubris. They thought it was a surefire hit that would coast on the coat tails of the movies, but TV audiences turned out to be way more picky than they expected. They either need to treat the show like a proper entry into the MCU or just let it go. I don't see the show lasting more than one more season at this rate, even if this season was an improvement on quality.
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Feb 8, 2015 01:20
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I'm just going to quote Wikipedia because it's easier, but the sources are there on the page:quote:In the United States, the premiere episode of Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. earned a 4.7/14 rating in the 18–49 year old demographic, with 12.12 million total viewers, making it the biggest network drama debut in four years. Though the series debuted to strong ratings against its competition, NCIS, its ratings declined considerably over the following two months, though it remained Tuesday's top show among men 18–49, and overall was the No. 3 show among upscale young adults behind Modern Family and The Big Bang Theory. It also enjoyed DVR recordings that, according to TV Guide, were "through the roof".
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Feb 8, 2015 01:21
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CAPTAIN CAPSLOCK posted:But what if no one is watching the constant reminder This. Even if you accept the very silly argument that it's advertising the films (rather than the reverse, leveraging the films in an attempt to boost ABC's ratings), an effective advertisement by definition reaches a broader (or, if it's really well-targeted, similarly sized) audience than that for the product it's advertising. SHIELD's audience is only a tiny fraction the size of that for the "product" in this line of thinking, and presumably a large majority is already sold on that product, which automatically makes it a failure as advertising.
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Feb 8, 2015 01:26
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