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the plague doctor is very strong in very specific situations that almost never happen
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Feb 6, 2015 18:34
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My Hellion and Highwayman stacked 11 bleed tics on a swinataur yesterday. And since the moves that put those bleeds out are really damaging just on their own, the guy basically bled out before he could do anything.
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Feb 6, 2015 18:34
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Apparently the PD's damage buff gets up to %25 at max, which is fairly sick. Slap a divine grace range heal on battlefield medicine, give blight bomb some burst damage and let it hit as far as the third row, make the back row stun go up in success rate as it levels to compensate for increased enemy resistance, and PD would be great.
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Feb 6, 2015 18:35
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Kyrosiris posted:Bleeds and blights do stack, though, I'm not sure if it stacks like 2 4 4 2 (assuming you land two ) or 2 4 4 4 but they do stack, for sure. I've seen bleeds go as high as like 9 on someone hit by three Rend for the Old Gods. Huh, I swear I tested this and it never went above the starting value. It must have just worn off or something  paranoid randroid posted:Apparently the PD's damage buff gets up to %25 at max, which is fairly sick. Slap a divine grace range heal on battlefield medicine, give blight bomb some burst damage and let it hit as far as the third row, make the back row stun go up in success rate as it levels to compensate for increased enemy resistance, and PD would be great. Yeah the damage buff is huge and its one of the reasons I'd actually think about using a PD. Paired with a hellion or a leper, that damage buff can be sick nasty. I think I had my hellion crit the entire enemy team for 75 damage once.
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Feb 6, 2015 18:35
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how me a frog posted:I think this is really the biggest problem atm. There are quite clearly some classes that are a lot better overall than others. Does anyone even use plague doctors the hell is that dweeb even for. Plague doctors exist to make the only hard part of the game (the start) slightly less hard. And then to get fired to make room for more mooks.
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Feb 6, 2015 18:38
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This game flew under my radar, but now I've found out about it and I can't resist the Warhammer Roleplay vibe I'm getting off it, what with the madness and crushing despair and eldritch tentacles. Should be fun. *wipes on the first dungeon* FUCKITALL! 
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Feb 6, 2015 18:38
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MadJackMcJack posted:This game flew under my radar, but now I've found out about it and I can't resist the Warhammer Roleplay vibe I'm getting off it, what with the madness and crushing despair and eldritch tentacles. Should be fun. I was watching TotalBiscuit do his first blind playthrough on stream, and due to RNG fuckery he lost his first two characters in the tutorial.
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Feb 6, 2015 18:39
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Haroshia posted:I was watching TotalBiscut do his first blind playthrough on stream, and due to RNG fuckery he lost his first two characters in the tutorial. This isn't hard to do, you only get two people with no heals so one lucky crit can easily drop you down into death's door.
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Feb 6, 2015 18:40
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Some dudes on the DD forums claim that disorienting blast is completely tits, but in the same post they also say that grave robber is useless so I basically have no idea.
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Feb 6, 2015 18:41
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Notorious QIG posted:This isn't hard to do, you only get two people with no heals so one lucky crit can easily drop you down into death's door. It doesn't help that the 3 bandit phalanx is a giant "gently caress you" early game.
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Feb 6, 2015 18:42
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hes best abilites are a backline stun and the dmg buff, both abilites that she needs to use on her first turn to get anything from. so what ends up happening is you go into a long extended fight because you only have 3 damage dealers so that makes the fight last longer but at the same time this support character is also at her weakest when there is no backline to hit. tldr PD has anti synergy in her kit
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Feb 6, 2015 18:43
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Haroshia posted:I was watching TotalBiscuit do his first blind playthrough on stream, and due to RNG fuckery he lost his first two characters in the tutorial. I got past the tutorial quite easily, but I lost all 4 of my starting guys since my Vestal only had a lovely 1-2 point party heal and the enemy decided to gang up on my Highwayman. Once he died it spiraled out of control, plus the RNG deciding that all the enemies suddenly became dodge experts didn't help. I may be slightly bitter.
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Feb 6, 2015 18:45
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paranoid randroid posted:Some dudes on the DD forums claim that disorienting blast is completely tits, but in the same post they also say that grave robber is useless so I basically have no idea. Early on for me Gravediggers seem really swingy because all their abilities except for the self buff are damage, many with -damage % mods and their weapons are not great damage to begin with. My first two gravediggers were never very good, but after they died I got two more that just seem to lay out all sorts of hurt and burst things down like champs. If they crit, they mess poo poo up. Crits are insanely powerful in this game.
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Feb 6, 2015 18:45
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The plague doctor suffers from hard falloff. All her "good" damage skills are -% damage, so she doesn't improve from weapon upgrades. Other, better, classes get full damage skills with the same DoT growth potential. And most damningly her DoT skills don't benefit from crits in any real way. Hell, the bounty hunter's flash bang is literally her disorienting blast but with an extra stun. How I would fix her, is I'd increase all of her DoT potency, and then give every skill that inflicts a DoT some support as well. Give her a single target stun and blight. Make the single target shuffle also do a strong blight that scales at 1 point of damage per skill upgrade. I would add a damage or accuracy debuff to her multi-target blight. Fixing her party care skills is tougher.Hieronymous Alloy posted:Has anyone had success running a level 5 mission with Level 4's? I may need to take a risk. Yes, I cleared the necromancer lord for my first rank 5 mission. I used characters who were technically resolve level 4, but were really level 3 because I didn't have any of the level 4 upgrades unlocked. It was profitable for a week 20-something run. I abused the hell out of scouting to get in and out with a minimum of fights, though. The fight I tried after the Lord himself opened with a double-quarrel crit before I could do anything, so I just backed out of the room and then vacuumed up all the remaining undefended chests in total darkness. Broken Cog posted:OK, this is really annoying: Sounds like you need to fire some chaff. Surely you don't need another party of 4's when you could have 1/3 of an immortal killer clown?
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Feb 6, 2015 18:46
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the grave robber lunge ability has the highest crit chance in the game and a 40% damage mod
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Feb 6, 2015 18:46
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Slaapaav posted:the grave robber lunge ability has the highest crit chance in the game and a 40% damage mod I've ran with two grave robbers and two crusaders with Holy Lance. Hilariously good
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Feb 6, 2015 18:48
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the cure ability on PD does scale really well against super strong bleed and blight enemies though. So making stronger blight enemies would make her a lot stronger
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Feb 6, 2015 18:49
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I think as far as the PD goes, she has a great concept and identity, but no real functionality beyond backrow stunna, all day erryday (although Emboldening is pretty nice too). If she had more than just dots on her active attacks, like if they stayed lowish damage but had an effect in addition to the dots, that may make her a lot more attractive to use. Give Noxious Blast and Plague Grenades a -def in addition, give Incision bonus damage vs Bleeding Targets, give Disorienting Blast a larger aoe, and buff Battlefield medicine to do something other than fail to cure half the time. I don't know, I'm just spit balling ideas, but she needs some real buffs to make her useful in a support roll, as right now there is no reason to take her at all once you've got an understanding of the basics.Slaapaav posted:the cure ability on PD does scale really well against super strong bleed and blight enemies though. So making stronger blight enemies would make her a lot stronger I'm probably not in the minority here when I say its not that great. It still has a tendency to fail when you need it most, and all other actions that cure bleed/blight have some additional benefit.
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Feb 6, 2015 19:00
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Think it's all finally clicked. I'm doing consistently alright. And naturally after I say that I run into a Bloodletter, Cuthroat, Fusilier combo and my eldrich pull constantly misses the gunner.
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Feb 6, 2015 19:03
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Curing bleed and blight would be an impressive ability if you couldn't easily do it 100% of the time without even spending a turn for the cost of a bandage/antivenom. The only time the PD's cure is ever worth a character's turn is if someone's on death's door with bleed/blight, and even then a healer in the same spot could solve the problem and be useful besides.
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Feb 6, 2015 19:06
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Yeah, Battlefield Medicine really does need a little something more, either be it a small heal, a small stress reduction (like the Crusader's heal/destress), or a +Blight/Bleed Resist buff afterwards. It also needs to be 100% cleanse on top of its bonus effect that it should get.
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Feb 6, 2015 19:10
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The Vestal's damage + self-heal is probably a better move to use most turns rather than just healing the party 1-2. Course if you don't have that move yet, welp. But its not too long until you can upgrade the guild. Killing your enemy fast is really important. That's what makes party builds with no healers totally viable, even though with 3 damage dudes and 1 healer you're constantly struggling to stay afloat, and feel like without a healer you'd be toast. Having 2 healers can actually be worse for healing rather than better, everything takes longer and you have way more damage to mitigate in the end. Kyrosiris posted:Yeah, Battlefield Medicine really does need a little something more, either be it a small heal, a small stress reduction (like the Crusader's heal/destress), or a +Blight/Bleed Resist buff afterwards. It also needs to be 100% cleanse on top of its bonus effect that it should get. 100% cleanse chance plus a stress heal would probably be pretty good while not upstaging the Vestal or Occultist, yeah. Or make it target the whole party. Party-wide bleed cure would be way better. (Since single-target cures can use bandages and they don't even take up your turn!)
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Feb 6, 2015 19:12
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The Jester's Solo ability feels bugged or something. No matter how low an enemy's debuff resistance, it seems to fail around 75% of the time, no hyperbole. On a somewhat related note, the fact that enemy resistances skyrocket in the mid/late game is pretty bullshit. All it serves to do is make half the abilities in the game useless in favor of nothing but damage damage damage. Definitely not the right way to go about ramping up the challenge over time (especially since it doesn't even work; the game gets easier the farther in you are).
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Feb 6, 2015 19:17
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Vargs posted:The Jester's Solo ability feels bugged or something. No matter how low an enemy's debuff resistance, it seems to fail around 75% of the time, no hyperbole. There must be other factor's involved that we can't see. I get my 200% base stuns resisted quite frequently by enemies with less than 100% stun resistance (not wearing negative stun trinkets). I can understand if there is a cap, like with accuracy (90%), but this happens too often for that
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Feb 6, 2015 19:22
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Dackel posted:There must be other factor's involved that we can't see. I get my 200% base stuns resisted quite frequently by enemies with less than 100% stun resistance (not wearing negative stun trinkets). I can understand if there is a cap, like with accuracy (90%), but this happens too often for that The only stun I ever use is Shadow Fade if my Grave Digger needs to move from position 2 to 3 to Lunge next turn, but it seems to have like a 50% success rate even against enemies with 95%+ stun resist. I have no gear boosting her stun chances.
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Feb 6, 2015 19:26
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Well, most bleed skills already do good damage, so those skills are still good. Stun as an effect is way too good, so the resistances on stun seem fine to me. I do think that raising blight/debuff resistances is pretty annoying, as most of those skills are severely weak and rely on their debuff/blight effect.
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Feb 6, 2015 19:28
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Zaphod42 posted:Huh, I swear I tested this and it never went above the starting value. It must have just worn off or something They definitely stack. I was stacking 26 damage worth of bleed per turn on the level 5 bosses.
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Feb 6, 2015 19:38
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Darkn1o posted:They definitely stack. I was stacking 26 damage worth of bleed per turn on the level 5 bosses.  that's a lot of bleed.
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Feb 6, 2015 19:40
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Darkn1o posted:They definitely stack. I was stacking 26 damage worth of bleed per turn on the level 5 bosses. It does stack, but they each have their seperate duration (so that 26 damage is only for that exact turn, the number goes down every turn once previous bleeds run out)
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Feb 6, 2015 19:46
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I've got several pretty different parties, mostly since I'm still investing mainly in my town and experimenting with different setups. My one that ran vestal+occultist was actually pretty good, if I needed spread healing I'd use vestal, if I needed single target guy I'd use occultist, and both have some stun/moving/debuff/damage options to focus on if I don't really need healing.
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Feb 6, 2015 19:46
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Any tips on apprentice necromancer? It's a very large dungeon and I'm having trouble even getting to the boss (haven't even seen it yet). I try to hold off my camp as long as I can but find I'm having to use it 1/3 of the way through the dungeon, then being forced to retreat a few rooms from the end. I'll have a good thing going, but all it takes is one surprise attack and I'll go into a stress spiral. Now that I'm figuring out the game more health isn't a big concern, it's always stress.
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Feb 6, 2015 19:51
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Baronjutter posted:Any tips on apprentice necromancer? It's a very large dungeon and I'm having trouble even getting to the boss (haven't even seen it yet). I try to hold off my camp as long as I can but find I'm having to use it 1/3 of the way through the dungeon, then being forced to retreat a few rooms from the end. I'll have a good thing going, but all it takes is one surprise attack and I'll go into a stress spiral. Now that I'm figuring out the game more health isn't a big concern, it's always stress. Bring some high crit chance characters and train their skills and trinkets to drive crit chance up even more. If you can't do that, just get a back row Jester and rock out.
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Feb 6, 2015 19:52
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Using campfires pro-actively to buff instead of re-actively to heal can be a surprisingly good move. Also party composition is pretty huge, some teams are totally hosed if they get surprised while others just roll with it.
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Feb 6, 2015 19:53
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Baronjutter posted:Any tips on apprentice necromancer? It's a very large dungeon and I'm having trouble even getting to the boss (haven't even seen it yet). I try to hold off my camp as long as I can but find I'm having to use it 1/3 of the way through the dungeon, then being forced to retreat a few rooms from the end. I'll have a good thing going, but all it takes is one surprise attack and I'll go into a stress spiral. Now that I'm figuring out the game more health isn't a big concern, it's always stress. Every boss can be solved by a Hellion with "If it bleeds"
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Feb 6, 2015 19:53
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Baronjutter posted:Any tips on apprentice necromancer? It's a very large dungeon and I'm having trouble even getting to the boss (haven't even seen it yet). I try to hold off my camp as long as I can but find I'm having to use it 1/3 of the way through the dungeon, then being forced to retreat a few rooms from the end. I'll have a good thing going, but all it takes is one surprise attack and I'll go into a stress spiral. Now that I'm figuring out the game more health isn't a big concern, it's always stress. A good thing to know on all bosses is that they are always in the room farthest from the start. So plan your route accordingly.
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Feb 6, 2015 19:54
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anatolehp posted:A good thing to know on all bosses is that they are always in the room farthest from the start. So plan your route accordingly. Yeah this was my running theory, so I tend to skip side-rooms on boss runs.
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Feb 6, 2015 19:56
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:I do have one slightly bugged Vestal with -5 SPD from "Other." Maybe it's time for her to go. 7 positive traits though! Did you have her spend a night in the brothel? My Jester got "exhausted" by that and had -5 speed. It doesn't seem to go away either until you do a mission with that hero. Baronjutter posted:Any tips on apprentice necromancer? It's a very large dungeon and I'm having trouble even getting to the boss (haven't even seen it yet). I try to hold off my camp as long as I can but find I'm having to use it 1/3 of the way through the dungeon, then being forced to retreat a few rooms from the end. I'll have a good thing going, but all it takes is one surprise attack and I'll go into a stress spiral. Now that I'm figuring out the game more health isn't a big concern, it's always stress. Keep your torch radiant. It doesn't prevent surprise attacks completely, but it makes them less likely and also improves your scouting. From what I've seen, you can't be surprised by a fight if you've scouted it. You can also use skills at camp to improve scouting on certain heroes, but you might want to focus on reducing stress if you're having problems with it. anatolehp posted:A good thing to know on all bosses is that they are always in the room farthest from the start. So plan your route accordingly. Yeah this is something they need to change. Its most noticeable with the Swine since his map is just a big box, and navigating it would be difficult if his position was random. He's always just at the farthest square from you though, so the map actually becomes incredibly short.
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Feb 6, 2015 19:57
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Oh yeah I'm totally not exploring, so far the 2 attempts were 100% linear. Maybe it's just me but the dungeon its self seems harder. The boss says it's a level 1 dungeon and I'm sending mostly level 1's out, but do you actually need higher level for the boss? Are bosses static but the level is simply about the monsters between?
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Feb 6, 2015 20:00
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The PD just needs to be able to do damage like other characters, I don't understand why some characters have deliberately lovely versions of abilities: the Crusader heal, the Occultist's front-line stuff, the Plague Doctor's damage stuff. If I want to turn my Crusader into a healer and stick him in the back instead of a Vestal, why not? It eats up a skill slot, and he's already penalized by not having many good skills from there. There really shouldn't be bad versions of off-role abilities, because no one is ever going to take them and use them. The penalty for having an Occultist on the front line stabbing people or a Crusader in the back healing people should be that the classes have to be in an awkward position, not that they have to be in an awkward position and also they suck anyway. There should be stuff like good front-line Occultist builds or weird back-line Crusader builds, or being able to do decent damage as a Vestal.
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Feb 6, 2015 20:05
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Baronjutter posted:Any tips on apprentice necromancer? It's a very large dungeon and I'm having trouble even getting to the boss (haven't even seen it yet). I try to hold off my camp as long as I can but find I'm having to use it 1/3 of the way through the dungeon, then being forced to retreat a few rooms from the end. I'll have a good thing going, but all it takes is one surprise attack and I'll go into a stress spiral. Now that I'm figuring out the game more health isn't a big concern, it's always stress. Two crusaders with Holy Lance will chump him right quick. Let them Smite while he's in the front two rows, then leap frog when he's in the back.
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Feb 6, 2015 20:09
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