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Why does most of this thread keep reading V. Illych L. as saying "your vote doesn't matter, so don't vote"? He's explicitly saying "your individual vote isn't likely to have much impact, so don't vote tactically, vote based on your actual political positions, even if that means voting for a third party". The latter is an entirely different argument from the former, but most people in this thread are arguing against the former.
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Feb 8, 2015 03:19
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Idran posted:Why does most of this thread keep reading V. Illych L. as saying "your vote doesn't matter, so don't vote"? He's explicitly saying "your individual vote isn't likely to have much impact, so don't vote tactically, vote based on your actual political positions, even if that means voting for a third party". The latter is an entirely different argument from the former, but most people in this thread are arguing against the former. because goons are stupid and love to misunderstand
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Feb 8, 2015 03:23
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Idran posted:Why does most of this thread keep reading V. Illych L. as saying "your vote doesn't matter, so don't vote"? He's explicitly saying "your individual vote isn't likely to have much impact, so don't vote tactically, vote based on your actual political positions, even if that means voting for a third party". The latter is an entirely different argument from the former, but most people in this thread are arguing against the former. But if I don't vote for a big strong party that's going to win, that's like me not being big and strong.
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Feb 8, 2015 03:27
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Idran posted:Why does most of this thread keep reading V. Illych L. as saying "your vote doesn't matter, so don't vote"? He's explicitly saying "your individual vote isn't likely to have much impact, so don't vote tactically, vote based on your actual political positions, even if that means voting for a third party". The latter is an entirely different argument from the former, but most people in this thread are arguing against the former. Voting third party in America, outside some very specific instances, is like going all the way to the polling place and then deciding not to vote. Voting Independent Candidate James Long has exactly the effect and impact as not voting at all. Though pretending the argument is to not vote at all is pretty silly.
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Feb 8, 2015 03:37
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Idran posted:Why does most of this thread keep reading V. Illych L. as saying "your vote doesn't matter, so don't vote"? He's explicitly saying "your individual vote isn't likely to have much impact, so don't vote tactically, vote based on your actual political positions, even if that means voting for a third party". The latter is an entirely different argument from the former, but most people in this thread are arguing against the former. Third parties will never have any power to effect any legislation or make any changes in the way the country is run, like it or not. There is no difference between voting third party and not voting at all.
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Feb 8, 2015 03:40
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Deteriorata posted:Third parties will never have any power to effect any legislation or make any changes in the way the country is run, like it or not. There is no difference between voting third party and not voting at all. But there is a difference between presenting those two arguments. This post you've made here is an argument against his actual position. Most of the other posts in this thread aren't. That's what I was saying.
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Feb 8, 2015 03:42
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Gyges posted:Voting third party in America, outside some very specific instances, is like going all the way to the polling place and then deciding not to vote. Voting Independent Candidate James Long has exactly the effect and impact as not voting at all. Though pretending the argument is to not vote at all is pretty silly. I don't know. I sort of feel like my vote for the 28 year old Leninist in the 2012 Presidential election is really about to turn America around.
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Feb 8, 2015 03:42
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Joementum posted:I don't know. I sort of feel like my vote for the 28 year old Leninist in the 2012 Presidential election is really about to turn America around. I feel like you started a conversation.
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Feb 8, 2015 03:55
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The place to actually make these grandiose "statements" with your votes is in the primary or the local, where people will actually listen, and use that to change things. Vote for the most left in the primaries, party will think the people want a leftist candidate. Vote for the most left candidate in the general, people will think the Republicans way is catching up cause they beat it by one less vote. If you want to pretend you're trying to change the system, try to change the loving system, don't just throw your vote away on a magnificently empty gesture that will accomplish gently caress all. Saying "gently caress it" and detaching is not the way you loving change things or make them better.
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Feb 8, 2015 04:06
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Joementum posted:I don't know. I sort of feel like my vote for the 28 year old Leninist in the 2012 Presidential election is really about to turn America around. Barack Obama was 50 in 2012, not 28.
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Feb 8, 2015 04:09
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Joementum posted:I don't know. I sort of feel like my vote for the 28 year old Leninist in the 2012 Presidential election is really about to turn America around. The most recent Party Congress reports that he's catching on, comrade!
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Feb 8, 2015 04:23
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Idran posted:Why does most of this thread keep reading V. Illych L. as saying "your vote doesn't matter, so don't vote"? He's explicitly saying "your individual vote isn't likely to have much impact, so don't vote tactically, vote based on your actual political positions, even if that means voting for a third party". The latter is an entirely different argument from the former, but most people in this thread are arguing against the former. Because they don't understand what voting districts and the electoral college are? No you can totally vote harder Milwaukee I mean you're already solid blue by several points but Walker will have to leave if Milwaukee gets bluer.
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Feb 8, 2015 04:33
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Deteriorata posted:Third parties will never have any power to effect any legislation or make any changes in the way the country is run, like it or not. There is no difference between voting third party and not voting at all. I guess that's true if you vote a straight third party ticket, and somehow also vote third party on any propositions or local measures? But that seems like kind of a fringe scenario
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Feb 8, 2015 04:47
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Bob Ojeda posted:I guess that's true if you vote a straight third party ticket, and somehow also vote third party on any propositions or local measures? But that seems like kind of a fringe scenario Propositions and local measures are not party-based, generally. In a race with a 3rd party candidate, voting third party will have exactly the same effect as voting for no one.
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Feb 8, 2015 04:53
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Deteriorata posted:Propositions and local measures are not party-based, generally. In a race with a 3rd party candidate, voting third party will have exactly the same effect as voting for no one. The third party vote for any proposition is "enact Socialism everywhere".
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Feb 8, 2015 04:55
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Deteriorata posted:Propositions and local measures are not party-based, generally. In a race with a 3rd party candidate, voting third party will have exactly the same effect as voting for no one. That was kind of my point, really. It's stupid to say that if you vote for a third party candidate you might as well not vote, because there are plenty of other things where your vote will have an effect.
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Feb 8, 2015 05:00
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SirKibbles posted:Because they don't understand what voting districts and the electoral college are? No you can totally vote harder Milwaukee I mean you're already solid blue by several points but Walker will have to leave if Milwaukee gets bluer. That seems like exactly the sort of situation where it'd be great if the big cities kept getting bluer forever, though? Is Wisconsin governor not a straight statewide popular vote?
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Feb 8, 2015 05:01
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Winter Stormer posted:That seems like exactly the sort of situation where it'd be great if the big cities kept getting bluer forever, though? Is Wisconsin governor not a straight statewide popular vote? It is exactly a straight popular vote.
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Feb 8, 2015 05:28
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Winter Stormer posted:That seems like exactly the sort of situation where it'd be great if the big cities kept getting bluer forever, though? Is Wisconsin governor not a straight statewide popular vote? Yeah it is other parts of the state exist though,people live there too. If more people were there sure but everyone who gives a gently caress is out voting at a certain point either you don't have enough pop or you do and gentrification would end up pushing people out.
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Feb 8, 2015 05:40
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Bob Ojeda posted:That was kind of my point, really. It's stupid to say that if you vote for a third party candidate you might as well not vote, because there are plenty of other things where your vote will have an effect. If enough people vote "I don't like any of these twits" people start to notice. If I don't like any of the candidates I just write myself in. I also do that for basically anything where the person running is unopposed.
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Feb 8, 2015 06:13
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ToxicSlurpee posted:If enough people vote "I don't like any of these twits" people start to notice. If I don't like any of the candidates I just write myself in. I also do that for basically anything where the person running is unopposed. writing yourself in is lazy and takes no work Real change is made by going out there, getting your name on the ballot, and winning an uncontested election.
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Feb 8, 2015 06:15
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ToxicSlurpee posted:If enough people vote "I don't like any of these twits" people start to notice Note: "enough people" rarely happens except in local elections, and practically never for Senator let alone president.
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Feb 8, 2015 06:17
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My Imaginary GF posted:writing yourself in is lazy and takes no work Pretty sure I'm completely unelectable. I also have zero desire to be any sort of elected official which ironically means I'd probably do a good job at it.
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Feb 8, 2015 06:36
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Your vote only counts as one vote, which isn't very many votes. So the real strategy is to make arguments about voting differently based on who you are talking to. Try to make people you disagree with not vote and people you agree with vote.
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Feb 8, 2015 12:06
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Big, if true.
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Feb 8, 2015 13:37
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It'd probably take the Swiss Guard to keep her safe
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Feb 8, 2015 13:48
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Joementum posted:Big, if true. The quintessential Halperin tweet.
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Feb 8, 2015 13:51
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Joementum posted:Big, if true. Like, by terrorists?
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Feb 8, 2015 14:11
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Or politically?
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Feb 8, 2015 14:41
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When's the last time a president or presidential candidate came close to being croaked? All I can think is when Squeaky Fromme had a gun on Gerald Ford in a crowd.
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Feb 8, 2015 14:46
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TheBalor posted:When's the last time a president or presidential candidate came close to being croaked? George W. Bush when a bag of pretzels attacked him in the White House.
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Feb 8, 2015 14:48
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TheBalor posted:When's the last time a president or presidential candidate came close to being croaked? All I can think is when Squeaky Fromme had a gun on Gerald Ford in a crowd. iirc Reagan got shot?
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Feb 8, 2015 15:09
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TheBalor posted:When's the last time a president or presidential candidate came close to being croaked? All I can think is when Squeaky Fromme had a gun on Gerald Ford in a crowd. John Hinckley?
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Feb 8, 2015 15:09
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Someone lobbed a grenade at W. It didn't go off, obviously
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Feb 8, 2015 15:17
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Joementum posted:Big, if true. With baggage from the 90s? That'd get SS involved rapidly. Tbh, I'm already attacking Clinton for being too far left on the internet. She's unwilling to make the hard choices necessary in foreign policy which will eliminate ISIL and contain the soviets. I don't trust Clinton to #StandWithKyiv
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Feb 8, 2015 15:26
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ToxicSlurpee posted:If enough people vote "I don't like any of these twits" people start to notice. If I don't like any of the candidates I just write myself in. I also do that for basically anything where the person running is unopposed. In Nevada there's an actual none of the above vote, it's won a couple times. They just give the election to the second place guy. In the American system there is no strategy to purposefully voting for a losing 3rd party candidate. The best message you can hope for anyone else to take away from it is that if you'd just voted for one of the two party candidates then the other one wouldn't have won, great job!
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Feb 8, 2015 15:58
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TheBalor posted:When's the last time a president or presidential candidate came close to being croaked? There's Barry O and the White Tuxedo Wearing gunmen.
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Feb 8, 2015 16:01
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My Imaginary GF posted:the soviets. Very arch.
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Feb 8, 2015 16:37
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Rygar201 posted:Someone lobbed a grenade at W. It didn't go off, obviously There was also the shoe flinger, distinct from the shoe bomber.
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Feb 8, 2015 16:52
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ohgodwhat posted:There was also the shoe flinger, distinct from the shoe bomber. I'm always surprised by how spry W was there
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Feb 8, 2015 16:54
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