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I don't get it, I found the Hag to be the easiest fight by far and the Necromancer and Swine King to both be pretty hard to deal with. The Apprentice Necromancer with an early game crew especially was hard since I couldn't chew through the mooks he was summoning fast enough. And the Swine King hits hard enough that he can get people to Death's Door easily, and Wilbur can death blow them on the next round even if you're keeping up with heals. And there's the solo Wilbur bit at the end which can get really obnoxious. The Hag just didn't do that much damage to be frightening at all, died quick, and the pot gimmick was somewhere between ignorable and easily dealt with.
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Feb 8, 2015 16:23
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I was convinced at first that the trinkets had random stats, like Diablo 3 loot drops or something, because they are confusingly bad. But then I saw the same ones dropping more than once, so these were intentionally designed? Then again, some of them seem way too good, even the "Common" quality ones. Why yes I will take two Bleeding Pendants, stack both of those on my Hellion, and get +20% damage and +30% chance to bleed skills without any penalties! 
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Feb 8, 2015 16:46
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Picked up this game on Thursday and have been playing quite a bit. Being a vet of Etrian Odyssey, Dungeons and Dragons and having played a lot of the X-Com Long War mod lately, this game has not felt frustrating to play at all. Negative quirks are no big deal. There are only a few with really debilitating effects. I even recruited a Vestal with -10% to Bleed and Blight and never got rid of them, because those are just mildly inconvenient. If you min-max and choose the right person to poke the interactables you mitigate a lot of risk. For example, I have a Crusader that dumped speed and dodge for damage and HP. So I have him rummage through all the tree trunks that might give Slow Draw because I don't care about his speed at all. He constantly has a minimum of 5 bad traits but he's still on my A-team because none of those quirks matter when you're just a murder meat wall. Getting ambushed while camping is very DnD like. But unlike DnD, the benefits of camping are front loaded so it never feels like a waste. Speed is just DnD initiative rerolled every round instead of once at the beginning of combat. Pretty sure Etrian Odyssey did the same, but speed stats were so far apart that it didn't usually matter. Seems like it uses a d6 or something close, because my 11 speed Bounty Hunter always seems to go before any 5 speed enemies. Not sure about 6 speed enemies. You can always flee from battle, including boss battles or the dungeon without needing a spell or item. It's actually surprisingly difficult to get into no hope situations and Total Party Kills never happen. At worst, if you are low on resources, you can build a zero torch party of cannon fodder to earn you some cash. There are even positive traits and trinkets for under 25 light so you can end up with a total badass no-light party eventually. Stress is a cool mechanic. It is annoying that stress management is a bit too important compared to HP management, but it does add another layer of strategy when you prioritize which enemies to kill. Overall I actually think this game might be too easy, but I've read the opposite complaint a lot so I might just be too masochistic. The last two dungeons haven't been released yet so we'll see how it goes after that. Overconfidence is a slow and insidious killer after all.
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Feb 8, 2015 16:53
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RightClickSaveAs posted:I was convinced at first that the trinkets had random stats, like Diablo 3 loot drops or something, because they are confusingly bad. But then I saw the same ones dropping more than once, so these were intentionally designed? I got those. they're
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Feb 8, 2015 17:13
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Normal Adult Human posted:I got those. they're Ditto
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Feb 8, 2015 17:24
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Personally trinkets feel like they're only gotten like one pass on them at most after the initial production. That feels like the one area that really isn't as polished as the rest. Having upsides+downsides is nice, especially if you can use them to boost your party in certain ways. For example, giving the leper the +move resists/prot and -speed/dodge is pretty great, because prot is amazing in general and being moved is really harsh for him. You have to basically say that he isn't going to dodge or move first, but that is workable. That hellion trinket is basically "always use two of me", so really needs to be changed haha. Then you'll get stuff that is only positive effects but effect a minimal amount of a characters skill set, like the grave digger one, which feel ok to me because even with no negatives they're not super useful.
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Feb 8, 2015 17:52
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ZypherIM posted:Personally trinkets feel like they're only gotten like one pass on them at most after the initial production. That feels like the one area that really isn't as polished as the rest. Having upsides+downsides is nice, especially if you can use them to boost your party in certain ways. For example, giving the leper the +move resists/prot and -speed/dodge is pretty great, because prot is amazing in general and being moved is really harsh for him. You have to basically say that he isn't going to dodge or move first, but that is workable. Same as the + all resist - all chance stuff. My Occultist loves those. Healing with resisted bleeds? Hell yeah
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Feb 8, 2015 17:54
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-bleed +goodstuff trinkets on Occultists are pretty much the best, yeah. That plus pull makes them such good backline utility characters.
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Feb 8, 2015 18:38
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Well, I just opened a pack with my grave robber, who has a +20% scouting chance trinket, and found a dungeon map. That proceeded to scout the ENTIRE dungeon (medium sized). 
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Feb 8, 2015 19:04
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One of my characters seems to have a permanent debuff on their damage and their speed but they don't have any stress or any negative quirks. What can cause that?
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Feb 8, 2015 19:08
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Wildstrike posted:One of my characters seems to have a permanent debuff on their damage and their speed but they don't have any stress or any negative quirks. What can cause that? no trinkets equipped??
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Feb 8, 2015 19:10
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Wildstrike posted:One of my characters seems to have a permanent debuff on their damage and their speed but they don't have any stress or any negative quirks. What can cause that? Scroll back through your news scroll, they may have gotten a debuff from a town event.
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Feb 8, 2015 19:11
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Dackel posted:Same as the + all resist - all chance stuff. My Occultist loves those. Healing with resisted bleeds? Hell yeah Which trinkets do this besides the cleansing crystal?
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Feb 8, 2015 19:11
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What's up with lvl 3+ ruin level enemies critting like crazy? This isn't random. Three times I've gone into a dungeon and all enemies crit for every attack. Anyone else experience this? I've pretty much written off ruins at this point.
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Feb 8, 2015 19:15
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:Which trinkets do this besides the cleansing crystal? I meant the cleansing crystal yeah... maybe I should have specified the 3 resists and not said "all". The list of resists is pretty long after all
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Feb 8, 2015 19:15
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Wildstrike posted:One of my characters seems to have a permanent debuff on their damage and their speed but they don't have any stress or any negative quirks. What can cause that? Not sure if they've addressed it yet, but there was a bug where ending a dungeon at Death's Door would carry over those penalties to the entire next dungeon. I think it can be fixed with a save/reload though.
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Feb 8, 2015 19:20
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I really wish upgrading the Occultist gave his heal a minimum amount, even if it was pathetically small. Once you get to the late game he can't really reliably heal in place of the Vestal because its possible for the RNG just to say "gently caress you" and give you a zero heal, which will of course happen when someone is in death's door. I think being able to inflict a nasty bleed on your allies is enough of a downside anyways.
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Feb 8, 2015 19:21
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Teslavi posted:Not sure if they've addressed it yet, but there was a bug where ending a dungeon at Death's Door would carry over those penalties to the entire next dungeon. I think it can be fixed with a save/reload though. That sounds like it might be the one. He did hit death's door one time I think. He doesn't have any trinkets and the only reported random event for him in the town timeline is that he once donated 1000 gold extra to the abbey. Save/reload hasn't been doing anything but I haven't taken him down into a dungeon since I noticed the debuff. He should have SPD 4+2 but his character screen instead says 4 weapon base -3 other. And his damage has a -25% other marker. That does sound like the death's door debuff.
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Feb 8, 2015 19:28
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Well, it'll definitely be fixed after a dungeon run with them, but the speed penalty is particularly harsh.
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Feb 8, 2015 19:40
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Do you guys have a dedicated 'opener' of dungeon stuff? I keep ruining my poor tanks cause I usually have the front guy selected by default. Game's awesome though, I love the narrator guy and his spooky script.
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Feb 8, 2015 19:57
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grave robber and jester have the highest trap disarm chance and also have great resists if they ever trigger a trap
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Feb 8, 2015 19:59
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Teslavi posted:Not sure if they've addressed it yet, but there was a bug where ending a dungeon at Death's Door would carry over those penalties to the entire next dungeon. I think it can be fixed with a save/reload though. Not as far as I can tell. A bunch of my characters seem to be junked by it.
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Feb 8, 2015 20:04
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So what do the witches in the weald do exactly? My grave robber seems to specialize in one-shotting them on the first turn so I've never seen them attack.
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Feb 8, 2015 20:05
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paranoid randroid posted:So what do the witches in the weald do exactly? My grave robber seems to specialize in one-shotting them on the first turn so I've never seen them attack. They seem to use some low damage skill that causes stress and lowers torch light, other than that they just seem to have an annoyingly high dodge chance. They're mostly harmless.
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Feb 8, 2015 20:09
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Well, stress tends to be more dangerous than hit point damage unless you're always critting everywhere. There is a reason that the method of killing targets the back row, and the back row tends to be the stress causing enemies. I did find a bug though! When someone has a thing trigger that makes them open something, you can select someone else and the person you selected will be the one to actually open it.
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Feb 8, 2015 20:30
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There's more to the dodge mechanics than I think is immediately apparent. I think a "Dodge" from an enemy happens when an attack roll is low. I noticed when I did multiple enemy attacks like the Hellion "Breakthrough", it seemed that either every enemy was hit or every enemy dodged, but the ONE time I saw this mixed, the ones that did not dodge took the smallest damage I'd ever seen that attack do (3). Got the feeling that the attack/damage roll for the Hellion was so close to the Hit/Dodge boundary that the relatively small difference in dodge ability between the enemies made a difference.
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Feb 8, 2015 20:33
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People have theorized that the game only makes a single roll for every attack, and that value is applied to every unit hit by it. The dodge values on individual units usually aren't big enough that their dodge value alone lets them avoid an attack that would hit another. So most attacks either hit everything or whiff completely. Personally I don't like this and think the game should make a roll for each unit hit by an attack rather than lumping them all together. If someone gets a crit with a multi hit attack its devastating. The amount of damage and stress an enemy can do to your group with one is absurd. At the same time, a lucky Hellion can melt entire formations with one breakthrough.
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Feb 8, 2015 20:43
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Internet Kraken posted:I really wish upgrading the Occultist gave his heal a minimum amount, even if it was pathetically small. Once you get to the late game he can't really reliably heal in place of the Vestal because its possible for the RNG just to say "gently caress you" and give you a zero heal, which will of course happen when someone is in death's door. I think being able to inflict a nasty bleed on your allies is enough of a downside anyways. Yeah upgrading seems weird to me. It seems like it's always +5 aim +1 crit even when that's almost entirely irrelevant to the skill in question? I feel like it could use another pass as well.
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Feb 8, 2015 20:45
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Cat Army 
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The Iron Rose posted:Yeah upgrading seems weird to me. It seems like it's always +5 aim +1 crit even when that's almost entirely irrelevant to the skill in question? I feel like it could use another pass as well. Agreed, the current upgrades generally feel like a missed opportunity. I'm sure they'll get another pass, because as you say right now it's extremely formulaic. The only upgrade I can think of which actually does something other than increasing accuracy+5, crit+1, heal +1 average, or +de/buff amount is the Jester's party buff that actually adds an additional buff at its first upgrade. I'd like to see improved damage, additional effects, reduced side effects, etc as skills are improved. Heck, there's a couple skills where literally nothing visible improves on the first upgrade. The Jester's party stress heal, for example, upgrades from 3 stress heal to ... 3 stress heal. Yeah, that sound like a stellar use of a thousand gold there.
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Feb 8, 2015 20:51
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ZypherIM posted:Well, stress tends to be more dangerous than hit point damage unless you're always critting everywhere. There is a reason that the method of killing targets the back row, and the back row tends to be the stress causing enemies. Yeah I rarely have guys die, but people go bonkers all the time. Speaking of which, how are we to assume these adventurers are getting compensated? Sure the klepto ones will steal poo poo... usually, like, torches or busts or something. And really what are they planning on doing with those? is there a guy in town who can fence busts?
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Feb 8, 2015 20:51
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paranoid randroid posted:Yeah I rarely have guys die, but people go bonkers all the time. Well, they have their tavern and brothel bills comp'd.
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Feb 8, 2015 20:55
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ZypherIM posted:Well, I just opened a pack with my grave robber, who has a +20% scouting chance trinket, and found a dungeon map. That proceeded to scout the ENTIRE dungeon (medium sized). Dungeon maps only reveal one kind of doodad generally.
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Feb 8, 2015 20:57
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"Sure we won't actually pay you to put your life on the line so some prick can get his fancy house back, but you'll get all the flagellating and whoring you can carry away in both hands."
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Feb 8, 2015 20:57
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:Well, they have their tavern and brothel bills comp'd. And have you seen the recent rates on self-flagellation services? Really these guys should be paying us.
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Feb 8, 2015 21:00
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paranoid randroid posted:Speaking of which, how are we to assume these adventurers are getting compensated? Sure the klepto ones will steal poo poo... usually, like, torches or busts or something. And really what are they planning on doing with those? is there a guy in town who can fence busts? You get glory and fame if you survive, which is what they're all after. Though I'm pretty sure none of these guys know what they are getting into when they sign up and once they get here its like welp, you signed the contract so you ain't going anywhere unless I say you can. I mean, you can try to leave if you REALLY want too. Have fun going back through the forest. With no supplies. Alone. 
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Feb 8, 2015 21:03
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Normal Adult Human posted:Dungeon maps only reveal one kind of doodad generally. I know, which is why I commented on it. I was in the very first hallway and it showed the entire dungeon: halls, rooms, ineractables, enemies.
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Feb 8, 2015 21:04
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I'll just say that the vestal who keeps donating my money to the church is lucky she's level 4 because that's a really good way to end up hitchhiking back home.
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Feb 8, 2015 21:05
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Internet Kraken posted:Though I'm pretty sure none of these guys know what they are getting into when they sign up and once they get here its like welp, you signed the contract so you ain't going anywhere unless I say you can. Indeed. In the stage coach screen the new recruits all bark about fortune and glory awaiting them, how they can't wait to start, etc. And in the main town screen, recruits who havn't been on missions yet bark about how it can't be so bad, everyone else must be exaggerating, and so on.
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Feb 8, 2015 21:07
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http://www.twitch.tv/xenoith Trying to learn how to not die in Darkest Dungeon. I'd like it if some goons could come tell me what I can improve on. 
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Feb 8, 2015 21:11
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Cool idea: rework stress relief so that instead of it just being dump X guy in the bar or cloister for a week adventurers get a cut of the profit and will spend it at their own discretion on stress relief; you have no direct control outside of dungeons
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Feb 8, 2015 21:12
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