|
Smiling Jack posted:Mortabis is a living example of the Dunning-Kruger effect
|
#
?
Feb 10, 2015 02:45
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 3, 2024 14:21 |
|
|
Psion posted:For someone who has, in this very thread, posted repeatedly about family who served and your own claimed government employment None of my family has served and I never claimed they did. I worked for the Federal Reserve board, which is governed differently than just about every other agency.
|
|
#
?
Feb 10, 2015 02:48
|
|
|
Red Crown posted:Well, the community in question could make a concerted, multi-year effort to reform itself and the wider service could recognize its needs and adapt its promotion and selection proc-ahahahhahah The real issue is that, "Go live underground, in North Dakota, while getting repeatedly buttfucked by MAJCOM Stan-Eval. You will still never make General." remains a tough sell.
|
|
#
?
Feb 10, 2015 02:48
|
|
|
BIG HEADLINE posted:(this is a dated image, by the way - there aren't any active missiles at Grand Forks and Whiteman anymore, but there are still B-2s at Whiteman, which still makes it a valid target) I'd hope the Russkies would nuke Grand Forks on principle - both for the ND thing as well as the fact that Global Chicken flies out of there. Also Whiteman but thank god they've already got a valid reason because I'd rejoice for Knob Noster to be wiped off the map. Greataval posted:And there is nothing wrong with that. I was enlisted and got out at E-5 so i did not deal a whole lot with our MX officer on 2nds.I just remember on occasion when they would ask about aircraft Mx issues and eyes would glaze over. I Never knew much of the officer side of business. There's nothing wrong with that until that officer is a Capt/Maj and actually making decisions that matter, except it's about things he doesn't know the first loving thing about and the Chief/SNCO who should be telling him he's an idiot is too much of a butt-shark to tell him how he's wrong. I've just described 90% of what is wrong with AF mx, as a community. Red Crown posted:Alright, that makes a lot more sense to me now. Sucks that you'd have to take such an awful tour to get back to something good. And thus you see why like I said, I'm getting out. Because the "something good" really isn't that good. Red Crown posted:Well, the community in question could make a concerted, multi-year effort to reform itself and the wider service could recognize its needs and adapt its promotion and selection proc-ahahahhahah The AF is seeing this in the RPA aircrew community as well. They were planning on just kind of shrugging it off and being like "yeah whatever a bunch of guys are punching because it sucks, we're dropping to 55 or 45 or whatever CAPs anyway so who needs those clowns, we'll keep bringing Lt's in who want to fly robot planes and poo poo"...except Operation Bomb ISIS happened and turns out going below 65 CAPs is a pipedream. poo poo poo poo poo poo poo poo poo poo, let's throw money at the problem!!! That'll fix everything!!! Until it doesn't, then you're left with a bunch more money spent and still in the same manning hole you were in before. Also in all honesty the issue with me getting out isn't that tour, it's just the mx community in general. Hence why I'd be punching regardless, it's just the likely possibility of doing a nuke tour means unless a miracle happens I'll be 3-day opting when that assignment to Minot/Whiteman/F.E. Warren comes through next year. Also also the idea of figuring out a way to offer monetary incentives for assignment has been floated before many times in different venues. If executed correctly it would actually probably work. The problem is that in order to execute it correctly it would require a) a literal act of Congress, b) people to be willing to accept a change in the paradigm of how military pay works (observe the screeching any time questioning of anything to do with military compensation comes up and you'd see about how well this would go over), and c) the military assignment system to be competent.
|
|
#
?
Feb 10, 2015 04:33
|
|
|
Godholio posted:Same basic reason complaining about the USPS losing money is loving stupid. Why's that stupid? Yes it's Congress' fault, but that doesn't make the complaint less valid. And you CAN in fact compensate people more to fill positions that are harder to fill...this is how everyone does it, even the military, they just aren't allowed to do it with salaries for exceedingly stupid reasons so they try and find other ways. It's not rocket science...
|
|
#
?
Feb 10, 2015 05:14
|
|
|
What's the free market solution to charging hamburger hill?
|
|
#
?
Feb 10, 2015 05:28
|
|
|
Hauldren Collider posted:Why's that stupid? Yes it's Congress' fault, but that doesn't make the complaint less valid. Because the USPS's job is to provide affordable postal service to everyone, regardless of geography. "Make money" is not among it's mandates, because it's a service. Nobody expects NASA or the CIA to turn a profit. PittTheElder fucked around with this message at 05:31 on Feb 10, 2015 |
|
#
?
Feb 10, 2015 05:28
|
|
Yes, it's like a lava lamp.
|
mlmp08 posted:What's the free market solution to charging hamburger hill? It''s not a "free market solution" any more than the fact that we actually pay soldiers at all. Soldiers get extra combat pay, right? Why are you being so obtuse? PittTheElder posted:Because the USPS's job is to provide affordable postal service to everyone, regardless of geography. "Make money" is not among it's mandates, because it's a service. That is arguably a stupid job.
|
|
#
?
Feb 10, 2015 05:31
|
|
|
In the military, unlike the private sector, you can go to jail or face other restrictions and remittances of basic freedoms and pay for not doing your job instead of just being fired or sued. This of course affects pay scales.
|
|
#
?
Feb 10, 2015 05:31
|
|
|
mlmp08 posted:In the military, unlike the private sector, you can go to jail or face other restrictions and remittances of basic freedoms and pay for not doing your job instead of just being fired or sued. This of course affects pay scales. You're still being obtuse. You get paid all sorts of things in order to encourage you to do something pretty undesirable. You get a GI bill. You get Tricare. You get lots of stuff I don't know about cause I was never in the military. Point is, the military does ALL SORTS of "free market" stuff to get people to sign on. Saying that you'll pay people more to do stuff people don't wanna do is totally reasonable, and I have no idea why you guys don't get this.
|
|
#
?
Feb 10, 2015 05:33
|
|
|
Hauldren Collider posted:That is arguably a stupid job. It's only stupid to the extent that it's kinda dated. It's not even close to the stupidest thing in the Constitution.
|
|
#
?
Feb 10, 2015 05:36
|
|
|
PittTheElder posted:It's only stupid to the extent that it's kinda dated. It's not even close to the stupidest thing in the Constitution. I'm not gonna argue with that.
|
|
#
?
Feb 10, 2015 05:36
|
|
|
Hauldren Collider posted:You're still being obtuse. You get paid all sorts of things in order to encourage you to do something pretty undesirable. You get a GI bill. You get Tricare. You get lots of stuff I don't know about cause I was never in the military. Point is, the military does ALL SORTS of "free market" stuff to get people to sign on. Saying that you'll pay people more to do stuff people don't wanna do is totally reasonable, and I have no idea why you guys don't get this. The military pays based on rank rather than position with a tiny handful of exceptions, such as combat pay, drill sergeant pay, language proficiency in very specific jobs, and other rare circumstances. This is hammered home from day one. Trying to balance special pay for every job deemed undesirable would be dumb, particularly when taking into account geographically undesirable locations. If the only thing motivating you is money never sign up, tia.
|
|
#
?
Feb 10, 2015 05:37
|
|
|
mlmp08 posted:The military pays based on rank rather than position with a tiny handful of exceptions, such as combat pay, drill sergeant pay, language proficiency in very specific jobs, and other rare circumstances. This is hammered home from day one. Trying to balance special pay for every job deemed undesirable would be dumb, particularly when taking into account geographically undesirable locations. If the only thing motivating you is money never sign up, tia. OK, so the military doesn't give special pay...except when it really needs to. This seems to be making my point for me. I never said that pay should be the only motivator for the army, but let's be serious, how many fewer people do you think would sign if there were no GI bill, or how many people wouldn't re-enlist if you didn't get a vested pension benefit? Come on. Sure, money isn't the only motivator for serving, but it is A motivator.
|
|
#
?
Feb 10, 2015 06:03
|
|
|
Hauldren Collider posted:
Is it now? Perhaps because it provides a service other than "make my cousin's company rich"? The USPS delivers its service non-stop for affordable prices and good reliability. And is mandated by the constitution. It's actually a pretty sweet federal agency.
|
|
#
?
Feb 10, 2015 06:07
|
|
|
Hauldren Collider posted:Sure, money isn't the only motivator for serving, but it is A motivator. Yeah, there's no unpaid volunteers in the military. But if you want to see the gigantic difference between free market value for what the military does vs. actual compensation paid to members of the military for those jobs, look at the millions of words spent bemoaning how much contractors got paid for GWOT jobs. There are, in effect, almost zero free-market forces within the military other than the very basic "I get paid if I join up."
|
|
#
?
Feb 10, 2015 06:10
|
|
|
Vahakyla posted:Is it now? Perhaps because it provides a service other than "make my cousin's company rich"? Yes, it is still arguably a stupid job. There is an argument to be made that this should be left to the apparently much-hated free market. It is a totally reasonable argument. There is also an argument to be made that it is essential that everyone receive government-subsidized mail delivery as a means of communication. In the past this was far more compelling than the former, but I believe it is becoming less so now. Whether or not it is still compelling is worthy of debate, in my view. I get the sense people here do not agree with me, but I think I'm being pretty reasonable. If you believe anything about modern economics (basically so long as you aren't literally Marxist) you recognize that the entire economy is based on the idea that making a company rich makes everyone rich. That's not an extreme libertarian viewpoint, that's literally the foundation of modern economics. Much like Newtonian mechanics it is not a perfect theory but it generally works well in practice. I'm sure someone will come along and try to slay me with some exceptions; I point such naysayers to my previous sentence.
|
|
#
?
Feb 10, 2015 06:14
|
|
|
Hauldren Collider posted:
There we go. Jesus Christ. Will it trickle down, would you say? In case it has any relevance, I am a literal marxist.
|
|
#
?
Feb 10, 2015 06:18
|
|
|
stealie72 posted:Yeah, there's no unpaid volunteers in the military. But if you want to see the gigantic difference between free market value for what the military does vs. actual compensation paid to members of the military for those jobs, look at the millions of words spent bemoaning how much contractors got paid for GWOT jobs. Really? Cause I hear all the time about people doing things like signing up to be an officer because they want to be paid more, or joining because they needed to pay for college, or re-enlisting because of the good health insurance or good re-enlistment bonuses, or because their particular job gives them valuable training and so on and so forth. I also know plenty of people who would have served but decided not to because they would be forgoing significantly more cash in the private sector. I'm sure most if not all join up for patriotic reasons as well and that may be part of why they don't get paid as much as contractors. That doesn't change the fact that if you increased the pay that soldiers get, you'd increase the number of people who want to be soldiers. And if you increased the pay that particular hard-to-fill jobs get, more people would want those jobs. As shown by the fact that the military actually does this for certain extremely hard to fill jobs.
|
|
#
?
Feb 10, 2015 06:18
|
|
|
why did mortabis buy a second account
|
|
#
?
Feb 10, 2015 06:24
|
|
|
Yay, now I get accused of being a DL. That's what you get for trying to be polite to Marxists. Whatever. I'll go back to lurking. Here's airplane pictures, why I lurk the thread in the first place. For the record, I think the only thing I have in common with Mortabis is being a conservative.
Hauldren Collider fucked around with this message at 06:33 on Feb 10, 2015 |
|
#
?
Feb 10, 2015 06:29
|
|
|
Hauldren Collider posted:Why's that stupid? Yes it's Congress' fault, but that doesn't make the complaint less valid. Well ok, I guess my point is that they need to aim their blame at a more appropriate target. It's not really the USPS' fault. They wouldn't be a great corporation, but they sure as poo poo wouldnt be losing 1-2B a month if they had control over ANY of their finances. Hauldren Collider posted:You're still being obtuse. You get paid all sorts of things in order to encourage you to do something pretty undesirable. You get a GI bill. You get Tricare. You get lots of stuff I don't know about cause I was never in the military. Point is, the military does ALL SORTS of "free market" stuff to get people to sign on. Saying that you'll pay people more to do stuff people don't wanna do is totally reasonable, and I have no idea why you guys don't get this. You really are mortabis, aren't you? What you don't get is that poo poo goes through CONGRESS FIRST. The services don't have a lot of leeway. Everything they do related to compensation has to be mandated (GI Bill) or authorized (tuition assistance) by Congress before the services even look at it. Edit: People are picking on you because you're making high school debate class arguments with literal experts in the fields being discussed. You're arguing military compensation with people who lived on it for years. I worked for several years in the underbelly of the postal service. Etc. Godholio fucked around with this message at 06:42 on Feb 10, 2015 |
|
#
?
Feb 10, 2015 06:34
|
|
|
No, I'm not mortabis. You can go through my post history if you don't believe me. But I am going back to lurking. I agree with you by the way, it is Congress being dumb, but I feel like if Congress were less dumb it'd be a reasonable thing to do.
|
|
#
?
Feb 10, 2015 06:38
|
|
|
Yeah, if you enjoy jerking off with the invisible hand. "Seems like a common sense thing to do"
|
|
#
?
Feb 10, 2015 06:40
|
|
|
Hauldren Collider posted:I agree with you by the way, it is Congress being dumb, but I feel like if Congress were less dumb it'd be a reasonable thing to do. See my comments above..even if we get past the act of Congress phase, it would never work because: - People would have to view military pay, across the board, in a completely new paradigm (i.e., people would have to accept getting paid a lot less from a base pay perspective if they got somewhere "good") - It would require the military assignment system to actually be forward thinking and want to match people up based on expressed preferences (I want to go somewhere "less desirable" for more money/I want to go somewhere "more desirable" even though I know it means less pay) as opposed to the current system of "BEEP BOOP FACE GO INTO SPACE YOU CAN'T GO THERE IT'S BAD FOR YOUR CAREER BEEP BOOP". And that's never, ever, in a million years going to change. e: Yes I know the way to get desirable assignments is to work underhanded bargaining with your assignments team but that just proves my point
|
|
#
?
Feb 10, 2015 06:42
|
|
|
Hauldren Collider is a friend of mine from high school who reads this thread because I pointed it out to him, that's why he's acting possessive and defensive and poo poo. e: like I promise you I would not register an account just to post in the Korra thread. Mortabis fucked around with this message at 06:50 on Feb 10, 2015 |
|
#
?
Feb 10, 2015 06:45
|
|
|
Well that fits. Personally I don't mind debating with people no matter how wrong they are, as long as they're able to not flip their poo poo and start namecalling. So I actually don't have a problem with him, he seems to at least be receptive to what people are telling him...he's just coming from a ridiculously pie-in-the-sky, "look guys all the pieces could fit together easily if we just do ___" outlook.
|
|
#
?
Feb 10, 2015 06:47
|
|
|
Godholio posted:Well that fits. Personally I don't mind debating with people no matter how wrong they are, as long as they're able to not flip their poo poo and start namecalling. So I actually don't have a problem with him, he seems to at least be receptive to what people are telling him...he's just coming from a ridiculously pie-in-the-sky, "look guys all the pieces could fit together easily if we just do ___" outlook. Yes and I agree that talking about what would happen if Congress didn't do dumb poo poo is academic. Your point with the post office is spot on; it's unprofitable because of things like being forced to keep offices open that serve 5 people and a cow in Nowhere, Montana.
|
|
#
?
Feb 10, 2015 06:53
|
|
|
And furthermore, I would posit that it is more important that those five people and their cow have some basic level of connection to the rest of the country and the rest of the world than that the Post Office turn a profit. Not sure what this has to do with Minot being a shithole and anything to do with missiles being where careers go to die, but there we go.
|
|
#
?
Feb 10, 2015 07:04
|
|
|
VikingSkull posted:I turned this one on at about here one night when I woke up sick as a kid. Not fun. The latter half of Threads - or just the part after the attack scene - will rob you of sleep for at least a week. Dead Reckoning posted:But we made a new medal, just for them! (Of course pilots get it too.) So in other words, missiles are to the Air Force as helicopters are to the Navy in terms of chances of making flag rank. BIG HEADLINE fucked around with this message at 07:26 on Feb 10, 2015 |
|
#
?
Feb 10, 2015 07:10
|
|
|
Hauldren Collider posted:If you believe anything about modern economics (basically so long as you aren't literally Marxist) you recognize that the entire economy is based on the idea that making a company rich makes everyone rich. Wait, did the last 6-7 years not happen to you?
|
|
#
?
Feb 10, 2015 11:06
|
|
|
OhYeah posted:Wait, did the last 6-7 years not happen to you? He's not out of undergrad yet. The economy always seems 'simple to understand' before you (or your new family) have been put in a position to be hosed by the swings. That tends to cure people of libertarianism rather quickly, albeit temporarily, as it has a tendency to flare right back up again once the trouble has passed. Hauldren Collider posted:Just to put in my 2c I'm graduating with a Computer Science/Statistics double degree in the spring. Can't wait to hear the Randian rebuttal. BIG HEADLINE fucked around with this message at 11:47 on Feb 10, 2015 |
|
#
?
Feb 10, 2015 11:23
|
|
|
Hauldren Collider holds a belief that is unfortunately shared by many others, however there's a lot of evidence that says that the Free Market simply does not work as advertised and has never been taken seriously anywhere in Europe, and even in the USA it's losing much of its support. It was a revolutionary thing in the XVIII century but an untamed free market economy is the closest thing you get to a nazi dystopia. Anyway, he's still young and hasn't studied economics at all.
|
|
#
?
Feb 10, 2015 11:44
|
|
|
BIG HEADLINE posted:The latter half of Threads - or just the part after the attack scene - will rob you of sleep for at least a week. Threads is loving brutal. Yes! Work camps and deformed rape babies for everyone!
|
|
#
?
Feb 10, 2015 12:24
|
|
|
I leave for loving twelve hours, and my beloved Cold War thread is full of strawmen and poorly articulated arguments about economic theory. Post more cool poo poo, less slap fighting about whether Marx or Smith had the bigger cock.  MIM-14 Nike Hercules, in various stages of arousal.
|
|
#
?
Feb 10, 2015 12:37
|
|
|
mlmp08 posted:The military pays based on rank rather than position with a tiny handful of exceptions, such as combat pay, drill sergeant pay, language proficiency in very specific jobs, and other rare circumstances. This is hammered home from day one. Trying to balance special pay for every job deemed undesirable would be dumb, particularly when taking into account geographically undesirable locations. If the only thing motivating you is money never sign up, tia. Please correct me if I am wrong, but isn't sort of exactly why Warrent Officers exist? Or is that just more about incorporating specialized expertise into the chain of command? e: not that that applies to the problem of filling officer positions for unpopular MOS, obviously. Hubis fucked around with this message at 13:02 on Feb 10, 2015 |
|
#
?
Feb 10, 2015 12:56
|
|
|
Hauldren Collider posted:If you believe anything about modern economics (basically so long as you aren't literally Marxist) you recognize that the entire economy is based on the idea that making a company rich makes everyone rich. That's not an extreme libertarian viewpoint, that's literally the foundation of modern economics. Much like Newtonian mechanics it is not a perfect theory but it generally works well in practice. I'm sure someone will come along and try to slay me with some exceptions; I point such naysayers to my previous sentence. I'm pretty sure you'll find a fundamental component of market theory is that competition is the force which keeps profits down and is what ensures that the value generated by a company gets passed onto the population at large. A company getting rich does nothing except get the company owners rich. It's the constraints on companies getting rich that enrich everyone else. This 'competition' thing might be a reason to think about State monopoly services in different terms than private enterprise.
|
|
#
?
Feb 10, 2015 13:24
|
|
|
And Lo, we saw that "conservative shitposter bingo" was completed on this day. Methodically the steps were taken of "freemarket!", "I'm being reasonable", "MARXISTS!" and finally "gently caress you guys for not agreeing with me I can't handle competing viewpoints so I'm outta here".
|
|
#
?
Feb 10, 2015 14:12
|
|
|
Jeez, you guys. I'll post some more words about the JA 37 avionics. I was sitting on this for so long because I thought that when they got to the radar the entire thing became so nerdy and impenetrable to a layman that it deserved some further explanation and background (such as how the meetings with Hughes they're talking about are significant because Hughes was working at the F-15C's radar at the same time, so the JA 37 and the F-15C shared the same basic ideas in the dawn of real-time digital radar signal processing, but were developed in fundamentally different directions from a higher level perspective, which is actually really loving interesting) but I never really got around to writing that. Still, anything to drown out these awful posts, so have some more raw translation I had sitting around, the bit before they get into talking about the radar. Warning: Swedish chest beating ahead. Earlier posts in the same series (may be helpful for some background): Part 1 Part 2 Part 3 Part 3.5 (about JA 37's intercepting SR-71's, not about avionics) quote:Moderator: I'd like to return to the discussion regarding the user interface system. Are there some parts we've forgotten or should discuss further? The systems are interconnected. I'll start with Leif this time. TheFluff fucked around with this message at 14:36 on Feb 10, 2015 |
|
#
?
Feb 10, 2015 14:29
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 3, 2024 14:21 |
|
|
What in the name of gently caress, Sweden of all countries had 760 fighters at one point?
|
|
#
?
Feb 10, 2015 14:40
|
|